Why do people choose the dog they do?

[Chukar12]

My wife was kind enough to buy Pointing Dogs volume one: The Continentals for me as a Christmas gift. It is a fascinating book and by my count represents roughly 52 breeds of pointing dogs. Admittedly there are many I didn't know existed. Perusing the book and reading some recent posts about breeding and what constitutes the right dog has brought me to a reoccurring question: With so many choices why do GSP'S , EPs, ESs, and Britts remain the dominant pointing dogs we see in the field ?

...and for those that question the wisdom of buying from modern ft lines why do the preponderance choose this way...or do they?

[Steve007]

"It is not best that we should all think alike; it is a difference of opinion that makes horse races."

---Mark Twain

[chiendog]

Thanks for the kind words about my book!

I will take a stab at your first (very good) question: With so many choices why do GSP'S , EPs, ESs, and Britts remain the dominant pointing dogs we see in the field ?

The answer is: History, geography, politics, hunting traditions and the very subjective decision making process that we mistakenly believe to be objective.

I could go on an on about this subject and do cover some of it in my book but I'm working on Volume 2 right now and need to edit some photos of Setters and Pointers I took in France. More later.

[SetterNut]

There is a lot of personal preference in selecting a dog breed.

If you are going to hunt waterfowl and upland birds some of the versatile breeds may look more attractive.

But for someone like me that is hunting upland birds only, the EP and Setters are of most interest to me. My preference is Setters.
They have the point, and style that few dogs can compare with on upland birds.

[ckirsch]

I tried pointers hoping for early, natural pointing. I got that, and found that I didn't really give much up on the retrieving end. I also like the athleticism of the breed. That said, I've hunted behind some friends' wirehairs and shorthairs that I'd be proud to own, and have seen some Brits and setters at NSTRA trials that could really light things up. Lots of great dogs out there in a wide variety of breeds. There are some generalizations that can probably be made of different breeds, but more often than not it probably comes down to the individual dog rather than the breed.

[DonF]

Haven't had any breed with the amount of point in them that my setter's have. Also haven't had any other breed with a little retrieve as my setter's. I really love my guy's but my shorthairs came all the way around a whole lot sooner. I'm not so sure setter's are all that smart. They either do something naturally or make a chore of it. The shorthairs just took it all in stride and developed as a complete dog much faster. The pointer's and the setter's are definatelly more driven dogs, but a good shorthair can look da*n near as good on birds.

[chiendog]

I think that one of the most common misconceptions about why such and such a breed is so popular or why so many (or few) people are drawn toward one breed or another is that we assume the choice is made after an in-depth study of all the various options and breeds out there. The fact is, most people cannot name more than a half dozen different breeds of gundog and most have never seen more than two or three breeds in the flesh. So they tend to choose the kind of dog their buddy has or the nearest pro happens to train and breed or the kind they most often see in magazines.

So the popular breeds remain popular and the "also rans" have an uphill battle trying to gain market share. But the internet is changing all of that and I expect to see some of the lesser-known breeds become more common over time (and perhaps some of the more popular breeds decline in popularity). After all, the computer you are reading this message on may in fact be as significant a development in the world of versatile dogs as was world war two, store-bought dog food and a vaccine for parvo.

With a simple click of the mouse I can now make contact with people, and their dogs, practically anywhere in the world. Just think about the time before the net. How on earth did folks make contact with a breeder that was not in their tri-state area? Sure there were magazines, snail mail and the telephone, but the information was not as close to "real time" as it can be on the internet.

So I expect to see a slight rise in the number of dogs from "odd ball" breeds being hunted, trialed and tested in the next few years in North America simply due to the increased contact with people from different countries. How many folks on this board had ever heard of a Bracco Italiano before the net? How long would it take anyone now to find out about the breed? A whole library of info is as close as a "google" search.

So it did not surprise me when I recently heard of the first Portuguese Pointer being run in NAVHDA. A friend of mine just got a Braque D'Auvergne (bred in Alaska) through an internet contact. Personally I have helped a fellow in the U.S. get a longhaired weim, a guy out east get a Braque D'Auvergne, and another fellow get a Epagneul de St. Usuge. All of them just regular folks who happened to "discover" a breed on line. In fact my wife is now the proud owner of an Epagnuel de Pont Audemer. Guess where we first met the breeder? Yup, on the net. We then met him in France. The next fall he came here with his dogs to hunt and then this year he returned with a pup for my wife. My wife wanted one because she loves the look, I agreed to take one on as a member of the hunting string because I hunted with its mother, grandfather, uncle and sister for a month in two provinces and one state... and liked what I saw.

Now, just in case you are wondering, I am a photographer, I am not sure if that is white collar or blue, but I am by no means rich. I travel on a shoestring budget and live in a small home in the suburbs. I have a feeling there are other joe sixpack (canadian beer only) out there like me, and that they may be surfing the net right now looking for just the right dog. Hopefully, with the right information and a bit o luck many of these folks will actually get a good dog that will help to convince others that the breed is a welcomed addition to the already great line-up of breeds we already have.

After all, once upon a time, someone brought the first GSP over here and look at how well they have done!

[nldd]

Chukar12,i also have the good book ,,,,, thanks craig for a superb job,time,blood sweat and tears you put into this book,the pics are fantastic. as a joe 6 pack hunter ,i"ve spent a lot of time trying to find out about many of the rare breeds as i can ,from books,magazines like gundog and many others,a lot of the info i felt was -Bs,so this book as been a great help.,,as for the DD i have now ,it came from my need for a rough and tuff pointing\ret,, dog with a large amount of stamina to hunt the tundra for ptarmigan all day long without resting up .that takes a lot out of any dog,and the dd as proved time and again that he is up to the task.

[hustonmc]

I'll take a stad. If I'm having heart issues I go to Cardiologist not a Gerneral Practioner. I hunt upland birds, therefor I want a specialist, the big 4: Pointers, Setters, Shorthairs, Britts. Norrows it down pretty quick. Next stipulation, although I love working with my dogs all season long, training, trialing, hunting, I want it to be easy. I want pups that come out of the chute pointing birds, I want that dog to retain it's training, and I want the dog to look good doing it. (I want a natural point, not a forced or trained point). I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect a 5 month old pup to point his bird, hold his birds and shoot a few over him, wild of course. Next I want to fulfill all the above requirments and still be a little different then everyone else in my home area. To me Pointers fulfill all the above requirments. Next would be Britts. Third would a Setter, but then all the Setter people would think I was one of them and last of the 4 would be a Shorthair.
There are some more popular off breeds that trainers don't even start training until they are 2 years old. By 2 years old I hope to have a couple placements, a few hundred wild birds and be moving on to the next pup, not just starting one. I'm sure some of these less popular breeds will gain traction and some make serviceable hunting companions, they just have about 150 years of catching up to do.

[Chukar12]

Chien,
You are very talented please accept my compliments. I am sure I will purchase your next endeavor.

In some ways my next comment is made as the devils advocate. As I read your analysis it seems that you suggest the also rans are also rans based on the ignorance of we the consumer...and I truly don't mean the word in the ugly sense it is sometimes taken in. I don't suppose we will ever know the answers for sure as trends and the culture they thrive in are forever in a state of morphing.

I would like to believe that bird dogs have little to do with social classes or financial structure. My background is a pretty humble one (I will save you all the bio) and my formal education is what you might expect of a person with my record and mind set from 14 to 22. I actually had a springer that was a master of the retrieve on pheasants I ground sluiced from a 79 Chevy van on country roads and folks' front yards. He would watch out the window and retrieve to hand when the side door was thrown open...the progression of dogs and possibly of hunting itself I do understand.

I choose bigger running dogs today because they suit the terrain and game I prefer. For a fraction of the time I am hunting game contact and shooting is relevant ...the remainder of the time I am looking for something that borders between primitive and wild ... A line cast on a ridge or an edge speaks to me. That may be an American heritage or even a western one ... And while there may be only a century or part thereof to call it a heritage it is the one that resonates with me.

[Stoneface]

I think it has a lot to do with how the person gets into dogs to begin with. If a guy has a friend that he hunts with and the friend has six Britts and the guy becomes accustom to working with those Britts and takes to them, he'll probably want a Britt when he goes to buy a pup. Same with any other breed. Although, that's not always the case. For example, if this same guy decides he really likes running birddogs, but when he starts looking online for information on birddogs, he just finds Shorthairs really attractive, then he may go that way. I think the popularity of a breed plays a large role in how popular that breed will be in the future, though there are some major exceptions - like Britts and Shorthairs, for example. I mean, if you chime in to a message board and ask for input about prospective breeds, you will probably get a ton of response on the big four, but may not hear a thing about Gordon Setters, Pudelpointers, Pointing Labs, etc. So, if you don't hear anything about these breeds you will probably not end up buying a puppy from one of these breeds.

It's the same with religion. There's a reason America is primarily a Christian nation and the Middle East is primarily Islamic. If you live over here and are invited to a religious ceremony, it's probably going to be church or something that is strongly associated with Christianity and if you join a religion it will probably not be Islam. But, if you live over in Afghanistan and are invited, it's probably not going to be a Christian meeting. You could also compare why kids of different generations listen to different music. If a kid from the '60s was alive today, he probably wouldn't listen to Dion and The Belmonts singing Runaround Sue, but Ludacris or Usher singing whatever the heck it is they sing.

Basically, I think they fall into those breeds typically by default.

[jarbo03]

I got my first britt when I was 7 years old, we always had a couple around the house and were always breeding them. We also had a few EPs and Setters, but the britts were the dog for my family. Needless to say when I was old enough to choose my own dog, I went with the britt, and still couldn't be happier with the breed.

Then I got into waterfowl hunting, my britt did a good job, but there were situations he struggled with, so I got a choc. lab. Now I had a dog for every need, both had to hunt waterfowl and upland, they did so together for 12 years very successful.

If I only hunted upland I would own nothing but a britt, if I only waterfowl hunted I would only have a lab. Chiendog was right, thanks to the internet I have neither. After 2 years of studying, I picked up my Wirehaired Pointing Griffon last February, 3/4 the way through his first season I couldn't be happier with my purchase. To date I have taken, dove, prairie chicken, hung. partridge, sharptails, pheasant, bobwites, and ducks and geese. Have hunted from 100+ degrees during dove season to breaking ice on the duck marsh. I feel like the 2 years of studying and talking to breeders have paid off. Is he the perfect dog for everybody? No, hes just the perfect dog for me, and that is what is important.

[gspguy]

Why do people choose the dog they do?

They choose the dog because they like it and it meets their needs. Local availability of certain breeds and what their friends are running can also govern their decision.

and for those that question the wisdom of buying from modern ft lines why do the preponderance choose this way...or do they?

They don't. The majority of bird hunters in my area don't intentionally buy from FT lines. If they even care if the sire and dam are proven they tend to gravitate toward Hunt Test or NAVHDA dogs. Most are ignorant of bloodlines, etc. A good number of people around here couldn't tell you the registered names of the sire and dam that their dogs are out of.

[phermes1]

We just got that book for our judges at our last trial as gifts. Judges LOVED it. Great book!

[Buckeye_V]

I got mine because they were the cheapest

[cutty72]

Got my lab because I wanted a hunting dog, and had a few requirements.

1. Must be able to hunt upland and waterfowl
2. Easy to care for coat (meaning not long hair)
3. Must be able to live outside year round

This put me with 2 basic options. A lab or a wirehair, and I prefer a flusher vs a pointer. My black lab fell into my lap for a great price that I couldn't refuse. She's been one of the best dogs I've ever hunted over.
Now my wife got her own pup, a half sister to my lab, a GWP/Lab cross. I am excited to see how she performs in the field!

[asc]

he had me until he said canadian beer

[gotpointers]

Many times my customers want a dog that resembles a dog they had in the past. Most will not listen to any benifits another breed offers. Many minds are set before the call to the breeder is even made.

[phoenix]

I'm a setter guy! I only ever hunted over Ep's before my setter. My grandfather on both sides were upland hunters. One swore by the EP as the finest grouse & quail dog a man could own & the other owned a setter but usually hunted him in a brace with an EP. I love the birddog skill the EP has just dont like the looks. To me they look like avgerage mutts. No offense pointer guys! It came down to my dogs living in the house so I also wanted a "smaller" breed. That came down to a llewellin & a britt. My wife does not like the britts, as they have no tail even though I looked at them HARD. In the end it was always the setters. I just had to look at all the options that fit me. But like I said, it was always a setter!