Getting discouraged with Brittany

Jblightsey · Post by **Jblightsey** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:59 am

My one year old Brittany seems to make a better couch ornament than an outdoor enthusiast. Take her to the woods and she trips me because she stay under my feet. She won't venture out, even with my dads dogs running and quartering. Pointing is out of the question, if I get her close to a bird, she runs the other way. If I take her to the bird pen, she seems birdy about 1/2 of the time. Any advice????? Gun fire is out of the question, waiting to see progress before hat lesson. When I got her about 3 months ago, the breeder said she was a light dog, meaning her training wold have to be a gentle introduction with plent of praise. Again, help?????

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:09 am

It sounds like you got sold a bag of ripped off. Start over.

Firemedic · Post by **Firemedic** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:09 am

Did the breeder give you any return policy? Seems there was a reason he sold you a 9 month old Britt and didn't keep it for himself.

MTJoe · Post by **MTJoe** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:13 am

I have one like this, and it took geting the dog in the truck, getting her exposed to as much as possible, and getting her confidence up. If I hunt her with my other dogs she does ok, but if I have a buddy with me, she wont leave my side, no matter what, unless she happens onto a bird, then she will point. She will never be a great hunting dog, but she is a loving member of the family for sure. I just keep getting her out and she gets better each time.

Jblightsey · Post by **Jblightsey** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:20 pm

MTJoe wrote:I have one like this, and it took geting the dog in the truck, getting her exposed to as much as possible, and getting her confidence up. If I hunt her with my other dogs she does ok, but if I have a buddy with me, she wont leave my side, no matter what, unless she happens onto a bird, then she will point. She will never be a great hunting dog, but she is a loving member of the family for sure. I just keep getting her out and she gets better each time.

Thanks, that is the kind of encouragement I am looking for. Even though we have only had her for 3 months, she has captured our hearts and I couldn't imagine getting rid of her, she is VERY obedient. I will work with her everyday and get her exposed to the "woods" as much as possible.

postoakshorthairs · Post by **postoakshorthairs** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:37 pm

I'm a little suspicious about the story you were given but it is what it is. You say the dog is birdie part of the time around the pen but runs away from birds when it gets around them. Have you had her on birds by herself? Birds she can bump, chase etc. To build up her desire? Maybe the fire hasn't been lit or maybe she had a bad experience when the breeder had her. I had a female GSP out of field champion lines who acted very similar to what you describe...unfortunately she never came around.

Wenaha · Post by **Wenaha** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:04 pm

It sounds to me like your dog has some baggage from the person who sold it to you. To be sure there are some dogs that just aren't interested in birds, but it is pretty rare. Usually this kind of behavior is learned. You might be able to reclaim this dog, but you will be undoing what it has learned and starting over from the beginning. It might be better to find another prospect.

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:09 pm

For some reason she doesn't think birds are fun. You need to bring that back. Get some wild pigeons and let her find and chase them to her hearts content. Take her for walks in the woods and then put some pigeons out there so she gets used to finding them and chasing and having fun there as well (after she is bold about chasing the birds). Put out some wing lock birds and let her catch and carry them around.
Be very careful about gun introduction and when you want to make some useful manners on her be cautious that you don't trigger what made birds not fun the first time - even though you likely don't know what that was.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:12 pm

What is her breeding? field, unknown, Show?

If she shows no desire for birds you have a nice pet...If she shows at least some excitement about birds then what are you willing to invest in time and effort to possibly make a mediocre bird dog to maybe a year or so down the road with lots of slow build up and such an ok bird dog..But there has to be some interest in birds...

I see certain lines of britts that a "breeder" does near where I am at that are nice pets.

Until you have any bird desire up and going don't even worry about the gun

ohmymy111 · Post by **ohmymy111** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:00 pm

I am happy to hear you are not going to just dump her and start over because she isn't showing much drive. I have seen several dogs that were not really interested in birds or hunting at a young age. I have two right now that were that way. One that was given to me. He is now a hunting and running fool. The other is coming along nicely. She runs like the "bleep", and is getting interested in birds. I got her when she was 7 months old, and nothing had been done with her at all, including not even getting a rabies shot. She just sat in a kennel all day. It has taken 4 months to get her to this point, where she is enjoying being a dog, and not afraid to leave my side, and it will take many months more to get her to what I think she is capable of. I am just not the type to give up on a dog, I look for the positive in a dog and not the negative, and then work towards those positives.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:53 pm

ohmymy111 wrote:I am happy to hear you are not going to just dump her and start over because she isn't showing much drive. I have seen several dogs that were not really interested in birds or hunting at a young age. I have two right now that were that way. One that was given to me. He is now a hunting and running fool. The other is coming along nicely. She runs like the "bleep", and is getting interested in birds. I got her when she was 7 months old, and nothing had been done with her at all, including not even getting a rabies shot. She just sat in a kennel all day. It has taken 4 months to get her to this point, where she is enjoying being a dog, and not afraid to leave my side, and it will take many months more to get her to what I think she is capable of. I am just not the type to give up on a dog, I look for the positive in a dog and not the negative, and then work towards those positives.

I gave a pup away when it was a year old to an older couple that wanted a pup because he had no desire to hunt at all. Later in the year the couple went to work at a hunt club and with in a year that pup was the darling of every hunter who didn't have a dog that hunted there. You just never know what exposure will do but it will surprise you many times.

Ezzy

Jblightsey · Post by **Jblightsey** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:16 pm

Great advice everyone, overall I am feeling somewhat more positive. I kind of felt she is too young to give up on. But if she grows older with no desire she will be a great pet.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:36 pm

I tend to think your pup had issues with the former owner and bird introduction. Usually it's a no brainer introducing birds at pretty much any age. I don't intro pups for a year or so, never had a bird shy pup. But you got what you got. Sometines you have to create one problem to fix another. I had a shorthair that was 6 yrs old in and had no introduction to birds. The dog had never been out of its kennel. Here's what I did and on this dog, it worked. I took it in the quail pen with me and stayed there till the dog finally killed a couple birds. Took about an hour and I felt really stupid standing in a pen full of quail with a dog sitting next to me that could care less. But it did work and the dog went on to make a good hunting dog.

I do think that the former owner tried bird introduction and screwed it up some how. Perhaps the pup really is gentle and she got beat up one more time than she cared for. Perhaps she was thrown a bird to introduce the gun and the gun was to close and to loud. Problem is to fix it. Get some pigeons and pull the flight feathers and hobble them loosely with pipe cleaners. Turn them loose where she can see them and just wait. Might take a long time but stay with it a few sessions in a few days. DO NOT ENCOURAGE HER!

I have been thinking while writting this and I had a gun shy dog in years ago also. When I took her to the field, gun or no gun, she would just walk along with me. Never did get her thru it. What you said makes me think this could also be a problem with a gun and she is associating the bird with the gun so not much intrest in going to one. Right back to letting her kill a few if she will. No guns till you can get her out from under foot and stay out. Probably gonna take some time but guard against you getting impatient.

Hit the wrong button! I went back and re-read what you said again.
Take her to a bird and she runs the other way". "When you go to the bird house she's a little intrested about half the time". Seem's to me she is telling you something. I suspect no desire is not the problem, otherwise she'd do nothing going to the birds and wouldn't be a bit intrested going to the bird pen half the time. Her desire has been quinched I believe.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:15 pm

Wenaha wrote:It sounds to me like your dog has some baggage from the person who sold it to you. To be sure there are some dogs that just aren't interested in birds, but it is pretty rare. Usually this kind of behavior is learned. You might be able to reclaim this dog, but you will be undoing what it has learned and starting over from the beginning. It might be better to find another prospect.

I agree. Also that dog behaviour can often come from the e-collar being used incorrectly. When a dog won't leave your side, it's because something happened "out there". Time might fix the problem. Somethings dogs NEVER forget. I've recently had one attcked in the field trial. The offender was disqualified but too late for my dog. He's now fear snapping at any dog he comes upon.

mxdad777 · Post by **mxdad777** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:46 pm

I agree with what the others have posted, but would add one more thing. Keep her away from the other dogs for now while out in the field. She very well could be intimidated by the older more aggressive (towards birds) dogs. You might also try a pigeon in a small wire cage and just let the dog explore. This will allow her to look, sniff and explore without having to contact the bird. When she starts jumping all over the cage, you're well on your way. Another good bird to use for bird intro in the field is a clipped wing quail. They are small and non intimidating to the dog. If you can start seeing the "birdness" come out in her, the next step I would use is the chain gang. Put her on the chain with other "birdy" dogs and then take the other dogs out one at a time for their bird work leaving her on the chain with the other dogs. Don't say anything to her, just let her observe and learn from the other dogs. I have no idea what language those dogs speak, but I have seen miracles happen on the chain gang. Good luck!

Jblightsey · Post by **Jblightsey** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:32 pm

I am assuming getting her VERY birdy is the most important factor right now. By trying to accomplish this I will take some advice and put her in the quail pen. My question is how much encouragement to I give her and if she does catch and kill a pen quali, I should overlook that but should any reward be given.

Thanks, again for the advice this forum is providing me.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:26 pm

It sounds to me also that your dog got messed up somewhere along the line.

I would not do the quail pen thing just yet.

Baby steps until you find out what exactly is going on in the dog's head.

The advice about flight feathers pulled on a pig\eon or quail is, in my opinon, right on. Hobbling a bird lightly is also good.

As far as what the youngster does with the bird...I'll say this; No matter what the dog does to the bird,it is all good. if it grabs it and carries it around...great. If it pounces on it, kills it and then carries it around...better yet. If it sits down and eats the bird...that is OK too. That reminds me... when you take the dog to those wing clipped birds, it is not a bad idea if the dog is hungry.

You want the dog to get all cranked up about the birds. If that means it chases down and kills a few that is no big deal. You can always work that out later. You can always control a fire once it is lit. Your job now is to light that fire in the dog.

I might also roughhouse with the dog, just a little, to bold her up. Be careful with that because you want to bold the dog up, not put it into its shell.

Whatever you do, if the dog shows any hesitation or fear, DO NOT comfort the dog because that reinforces the fear response. If you see it just ignore it and go on.

RayG

KellyM87 · Post by **KellyM87** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:30 am

Good luck with your new dog! Is she your avatar? If she is she is very pretty.... I know it takes some dogs a long time to mature. I went to a pheasant ranch with my dog and my boyfriends cousin's shorthair. He was 11 months old and would also not leave his owners side. He did point when he came across bird scent, but we had to lead him to another dog on point and let him see what was going on. He is 2 years old and just starting to really come around and make a good utility hunting dog. It just took a lot more exposure and experience then some dogs need. You could also try killing a bird and throwing it for her and letting her retrieve it and have fun with it if she likes playing that game. Then go on to the flight feather pulled birds, and work from there. If you really want her to hunt you may want to take her to a pro who is willing to work with her. Good Luck!

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:51 pm

First time I took my male out he was scared of crickets. I just kept taking him out amd walking around, nor talking to him or anything. Sooner or later curiosity takes over and they begin to explore. Then I took a pigeon and dizzied it up and tossed on the ground in front of him, not saying a word an letting him check it out at his own pace. I also bought a small bell and put it around his collar 24/7 to get him used to noises and stuff. 5 months later I shot his first pheasant over him and he attempted to chase after a mountain lion all in one trip. Like your pup he is very obedient and he is very sensitive towards pain. It has made it tricky to train him because of my lack of knowledge and skill level but he's doing ok. Always remember to keep your expectations low and MAKE IT FUN FOR YOUR PUP. Put absolutely no pressure on it at all. Eventually instincts should take over.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:40 pm

Sounds like this dog has confidence and dependency issues....the dog is hard wired that way from all you have said. Life is too short...find this dog a good pet home and start over. I doubt there are many of us that haven't moved a dog along and started over.

brittfans · Post by **brittfans** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:43 pm

dont put your dog in a pen of quail. she is already showing you that she is fear full of them .If they jump or bang the cage it will only encourage the fear.you need to get one bird hold it in your hand show it to her tease her with it .If she shows sign of interest let it go see what she does if she chases let her.you can not go fast, you have a broken dog that needs to be show that birds are the best things ever.

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:47 pm

I had one just like that, he never really did hunt for me. I took him along a lot, he did find one down rooster once. He was OK with following me, for 10 years.....

His brother same litter was a fireball in the field and the home. go figure...

Got Shorthairs now, got the britt caused the wife didnt want a big dog......

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:39 pm

I rescued a Setter that was a lot like that. He was an absolute mess. By the time I finally found him a home he had improved drastically. I took him with me everywhere and he rode in the cab. Took him to PetSmart and other pet shops just to desensitize him (definately do this, if you can) and did a lot of going into the field, sitting down and just waiting. Sometimes I would take him to the school playground that is totally fence in and shut the gate so he couldn't get out, just for another new environment. He would hang out at my feet for awhile, but after a few times he started to get ten or twenty yards from me, then started running with the other dogs until he got too far away for comfort, then would come running back. A very important part of this is to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Dogs will read you like a book and if you're petting him, coddling him and telling him it's okay, he's taking it as a reinforcement to be unstable. Only give him lovin' with he's in a calm or positive mind frame. If he gets in a bind, DO NOT HELP HIM OUT OF IT. This Setter of mine fell about four feet from a brick wall into a creek and just clinged to the brick wall. He just had to swim about five foot into the stream and the water was shallow enough for him to walk out, but he was petrified. I just sat down where he could see me and waited for him. Took better than 45 minutes, but he finally did it. After that, he had a certain confidence about him that wasn't there before. He realized he didn't have to rely on me and felt like he could overcome something on his own. Just give him plent of exposure and keep our mouth shut is my advice. Plenty of exposure!

Jblightsey · Post by **Jblightsey** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:05 pm

Took her into the quail pen today and within 2 minutes she caught 5 quail and released them unharmed, she was having a great time. She did get a grip on one a little to tight and killed it, I did reward her with praise the whole time. After killing the one, I took her out of the pen and started playing fetch, also she did this great. 4 or 5 retrieves with one toss into thick cover and she dove right into it. The last toss she got the bird and ran off and ate it, later to vomit it back into my truck.
We then went to the local management area to let her just play. This is where we are back to square one. She is terrified to leave my side. Maybe the new environment, no gunshots were going on. I wonder if I should take a dead quail with me next time and play fetch.
Again, thanks for all the great advice. We are on the right track and my confidence level is building as is hers I hope.

edb · Post by **edb** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:31 pm

I would forget about the birds and just get her out more into different environments. She just showed you she is not scared of birds but scared to leave you and be on her own. Take her same place until she gets comfortable and goes on her own then move on to another place and repeat. May take days or weeks at same place but sooner or later she will learn she can explore and still find you. Last thing don't talk only watch.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:52 pm

I have some pheasant wings in the freezer. I'll send em to your for shipping only, if you want.... Just the pup play with em and chew em up or whatever, then try a bird after they are not afraid of but interested in the wings.
Just a thought.
Also I am a ways from south alabama, but if you want to come visit for a day or weekend, I am happy to give you some time in the field and my thoughts for free :roll: although my thoughts might be not worth much anyway. I can help you with the basics for puppy intro to field work and the obedience work to start on, etc.
PM if you like.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:22 pm

edb wrote:I would forget about the birds and just get her out more into different environments. She just showed you she is not scared of birds but scared to leave you and be on her own. Take her same place until she gets comfortable and goes on her own then move on to another place and repeat. May take days or weeks at same place but sooner or later she will learn she can explore and still find you. Last thing don't talk only watch.

I disagree. What is a hunting dog supposed to be doing when they're out running around? Looking for birds. Take some live quail with you next time, leave the dog in the car and go plant those birds. Bring the dog out and start walking by the quail. Shell learn to leave your side when she knows there are birds she can find.

edb · Post by **edb** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:09 pm

I just don't like a dog that wants to go with you to find birds and not explore on their own. Guess it depends what you are looking for. What good is a dog that expects you to walk it to birds. If you plant them I would plant them a ways out and not walk her to them. She needs to learn to leave your side.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:39 pm

edb wrote:I just don't like a dog that wants to go with you to find birds and not explore on their own. Guess it depends what you are looking for. What good is a dog that expects you to walk it to birds. If you plant them I would plant them a ways out and not walk her to them. She needs to learn to leave your side.

How is the dog supposed to know that there are birds out there if you don't walk by them? She never has left her owners side.
To the OP, this dog has shown you in the quail pen how to overcome the issues she's having......

edb · Post by **edb** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:24 pm

I understand she has never left the owners side. That's why I would get her out exploring just like I would a young pup. Planting birds close may work fine or it could make her never leave your side if she starts thinking you find them for her if she follows you. I certainly would not over do planted birds. Wild would obviously be best. Good luck. Lots of good advice.

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:41 pm

what brad said.

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