Coming along well and then...

[Gertie]

So things have been going great with my 4 1/2 month ES. She's been spot on with whistle recall without distractions and about 70% with distractions which is more than I expected from a pup. She's also learned that three whistles means 'release or move on' and has been pretty good on that one too. However, yesterday we were out and I whistled for a recall (no distractions), she turned on a dime and headed my direction and then about half way to me stopped dead in her tracks, looked at me for about 3 seconds and took off I didn't recall her again (didn't want to show her that she could ignore the command twice!) and eventually she came back a couple minutes later but was ignoring me completely until I put her back on the cc and then she was back to her 'good dog' self. I'm feeling the teenage years coming on but she's still to young for the e-collar. Any of you seasoned pros have any advice to keep me sane through the next couple of months? Cheers.

[ultracarry]

Lol your experiencing the puppy now.

Teenage stuff I'm experiencing is more of a dominance/knowledge situation where the dog thinks she knows more than she does. For example dog points a bird and you can't find it. Relocate dog points again and you can't find it. Move the dog on and rips out the next bird to spite you. That's teenage or going into season....

[Cajun Casey]

It's a puppy. If you wanted a started dog, you should have bought one.

We encourage the dog to come back to us by using birds. Run the dog out, call them around, and make sure they find a bird when they get near. We don't take the check cords off, either. Ever. Even finished dogs run with a cord.

[Chukar12]

Gertie,

I have a 7 month old puppy and if things are as you have described you are ahead of me...If the puppy is ignoring commands you have to have a way to reinforce them. I would go back to dragging a check cord...IMO puppy is too young for an e-collar, but your real consistency will come then. If it was me, I would be careful about working too much recall, if you are in the field let the puppy get tired running and recall sparingly, again you have the checkcord if you need it.

Do you actually want the dog back, or are you trying to keep it in contact? If it is the latter you are after, have you done any "bending" type drills with the dog where you use the checkcord to cue the dog to move in the direction you are traveling and to the front?

It seems like you handled the last situation pretty well. I would trust your instincts. I wouldn't even count that young a dog at teenager yet. The transgressions the pup makes and any training mistakes short of things that keep the dog from trusting you will all iron out in the next 12 to 18 months...you just gotta wear your patience and persistence hat until then.

[goldenpatch29]

This is for Gertie and all the pro 's out there as well.
I have a setter that is the same age and he is doing exactly what Gertie' s dog is doing....spot on! The prey drive on my dog is through the roof and he has started to hunt wide and long wanting to smell everything he can. I had a cc on him for a while but he was listening very well and I took it off. Anyway, my situtation is almost exactly like Gertie's except where I live, the terrain and the cover is rough to say the least. A lot of briars and weeds for the cc to get caught or tangled up in. This is another reason I decided to do away with the cc so early. So, with that being said.......what are some of the pro's suggestions for this dilema?
Anything would be helpful!

[rinker]

Carry a few pigeons in a sack with you, if you have access to pigeons. Periodically while running the pup, call her to you and when she gets to you, toss a pigeon out of the sack. A couple of sessions of this and you will have no trouble calling her in.

I did have a couple of pointer puppies about this age that did not like to ride in the truck. They would handle fine until they realized that we were heading for the truck, then they would run off and it took forever to catch them. I did use the ecollar on these two pups. When they started to run off I called to them and then shocked them on a low intensity. They stopped and looked around confused when they took off I shocked them again. The only behaviors that would not get them shocked were standing still or coming toward me. It took a few minutes for them to figure this out but they did eventually come to me. I used a low level and the pups were not upset about it at all. I did this two consecutive days and never had to do it again.

[Winchey]

Not a pro by a long shot but get a stiffer check cord and or don't worry about it. A dog at that age should be out doing what it wants, not what you want imo.

[slistoe]

Be sure you have a proper (stiff) CC, put it on the dog and leave it. Be prepared to run the cord down the very next time she does this. Even if it takes you 20 minutes you will run down the cord and enforce the command. I suggest not calling the dog and giving her a chance for refusal except when she is relatively close and you feel you have a reasonable chance to regain the end of the cord.

[goldenpatch29]

A stiffer material for the cord.....thats a pretty good idea...thanks. Even when he runs wide and gets way out of range I have been trying to call him back when he is out of sight, but as long as I can see him I just let him go. Does this sound like Im doing a good thing or do I need to be more stern with him, and also I have been using a 25 foot cc. Is this long enough, does it need to be longer or shorter.

[Winchey]

I don't know how you want your dog to work or what kind of terrain you hunt but most around here want the dog to get out of sight. Get a garmin if you are uncomfortable.

[bigmike86]

You are all very smart, but I would say you are overthinking it.

There is a more simple solution

HOT DOGS! Cheap, and super effective. It is my fail safe. I dont go anywhere without them. If you chop them up into little pieces you can get week or two out of one pack.

[DonF]

It's happy time! Don't give any commands unless you see her getting ready to do something you'd ask of her. Learn to ask as she's doing it. Good time for you to learn to read her. Keep the check cord on and no knot or handle on your end. Limber/soft cord will not work, stiff is what you want. I think you got one from the guy one here? I saw his web and it's looks like he might have a good one. I think you got the one with the snap tied on? Thats the one I'll get when I need a new one. Good cord is really hard to find anymore. Big R in Redmond used to have some really good stuff but not anymore. I'm on my last two made from their stuff.

[Chukar12]

...I am doing this from memory but I think the good stiff cords are called cork center...check LCS

[Gertie]

Ya, got the good cord from LCS. It works great through the brush. Guess I just took it for granted that I could get her back when I needed to without it. I'll keep it on her for the time being. I do want to say that I was at no point angry or on the verge of losing my temper at all. I just shook my head, took a deep breath and ignored her until she came back. I am tickled pink with her progress so far and am enjoying the heck out of her, obnoxious puppy antics and all. It's just that this is my first pup and I am really trying my best to do the right thing as far as helping her to reach her potential but I have no frame of reference. That's where y'all come in and I am appreciative for it.

[Winchey]

I think a lot of us could plead guilty of overtraining our first pup, myself included. Relax and enjoy it, before you know it she will be finished and then old and you will look back to how fun she was when she was a puppy.

[ultracarry]

This is for Gertie and all the pro 's out there as well.
I have a setter that is the same age and he is doing exactly what Gertie' s dog is doing....spot on! The prey drive on my dog is through the roof and he has started to hunt wide and long wanting to smell everything he can. I had a cc on him for a while but he was listening very well and I took it off. Anyway, my situtation is almost exactly like Gertie's except where I live, the terrain and the cover is rough to say the least. A lot of briars and weeds for the cc to get caught or tangled up in. This is another reason I decided to do away with the cc so early. So, with that being said.......what are some of the pro's suggestions for this dilema?
Anything would be helpful!

Find an old air hose and make a.check cord out of it. Won't get caught up or pick up anything.

Although the dogs may be too young for a ecollar, I would recommend having them wear one every time they go in the field.

[Gertie]

Be prepared to run the cord down the very next time she does this. Even if it takes you 20 minutes you will run down the cord and enforce the command.

That's a great visual

[ezzy333]

One thing no one touched on but if the pup is getting hungup when called stop calling. Thats what some of the above suggestions were brushing on. If you want the pup to pay more attention to you then you hide on the pup and make it find you. It will help solve the situation you mention, but I am not going to call it a problem. Just normal reaction I think. Heck, my wife is past her teenage years I think and she doesn't always come when called. And it is worse when I call her ten times a day just to see if she will. And she says if I stop and just call when I really need her she would probably be right here since she would know she was needed.

Pups aren't stupid, they are just pups. Give her as few chances to misbehave as you can and you will find her compliance level will go up. And do let her run dragging the cord if you are in an area you can or need to.

Ezzy

[goldenpatch29]

This is for Gertie and all the pro 's out there as well.
I have a setter that is the same age and he is doing exactly what Gertie' s dog is doing....spot on! The prey drive on my dog is through the roof and he has started to hunt wide and long wanting to smell everything he can. I had a cc on him for a while but he was listening very well and I took it off. Anyway, my situtation is almost exactly like Gertie's except where I live, the terrain and the cover is rough to say the least. A lot of briars and weeds for the cc to get caught or tangled up in. This is another reason I decided to do away with the cc so early. So, with that being said.......what are some of the pro's suggestions for this dilema?
Anything would be helpful!

Find an old air hose and make a.check cord out of it. Won't get caught up or pick up anything.

Although the dogs may be too young for a ecollar, I would recommend having them wear one every time they go in the field.

That is a wonderful idea, and as a matter of fact I do carpentry work and I have a old one out the building right now, and I was wondering what I was going to do with a old air hose....hahaha....guess there is a use for everything. Anyways, thank you for the advice...I'll be passing that one on to my buddy next year when he gets his new pup!