A couple of questions...

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proudag08
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by proudag08 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:22 pm

Sharon wrote:Maybe I've missed reading something but why are you switching his feed? Sure way to have diahrrea in the crate. Maybe you have a good reason . Start with 1:4. I stay with a mix for 3-4 days before changing it again, just to be on the safe side.
The breeder was feeding a product he has shipped from GA here to TX by the pallet. In order to give my dog fresh easily accesable food, I need to switch.

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by proudag08 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:31 pm

While on the topic of food. I currently feed 1 cup in the morning and 1 cup at night... At what point do I increase the amount of feed I give? Just watch for ribs? I have no clue.

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by Sharon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:49 pm

proudag08 wrote:While on the topic of food. I currently feed 1 cup in the morning and 1 cup at night... At what point do I increase the amount of feed I give? Just watch for ribs? I have no clue.

No one can say. It depends on how much exercise pup gets etc. Keep an eye on how pup looks . If he's looking skinny (and there are many opinions on the definition of skinny), increase pups food.Through out the life of your dog, you will need to keep an eye on whether he is too skinny ot too fat.
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by proudag08 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:36 pm

Well just an update first:

Frio is doing well with the food transition. Stools are still healthy looking and his appetite is still growing. He has a vet appointment today and he should get his 12 weeks shots and a toe nail clipping. Here are a couple of pictures:
Image
His favorite spot in the morning.

Image
Just give me the toy dad!!!!

Now a couple of questions:
1. I am thinking of teaching sit but a lot of people say not to. It will be fun and playful but should I teach it at all? Hopefully the pup will be a waterfowl dog in the furute as well so it might be worth it.
2. What is the process of teaching whoa at dinner time?
3. Does anyone have a spare clicker (for clicker taining) that they are willing to send me? PM me and I'll give you my address...

Thanks all!

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by Cajun Casey » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:48 pm

Send me your snail mail and I'll drop a couple of clickers in the mail. You can keep them.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by deke » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:58 pm

For whoa when he eats all we did was put the food down and tell him to whoa and when he went for the food we would just lift it over his head and let it sit there for a while then repeat the process. when my pup was 10 weeks we could tell him to whoa on his food and walk out of the room and come back five minutes later and he would just be staring at it drooling alll over the floor. we still do it every once in a while just to mess with him. Works good with treats too, tell him to whoa and you can stick a treat in his mouth and he wont eat it.

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:12 pm

proudag08 wrote:UPDATE:

Frio is doing fine with the blankets... His "big boy" crate came in today so I will probably keep him in there whenever we can go get it picked up. Also, on a side note, we went for a walk last night (on leash, I live in the suburbs) but it was in a partially developed neighborhood. Although there are no wild birds around there are plenty of new smells to be smelt. The walk was about 30 - 45 minutes long and I didn't say a WORD!!! In most circumstances that is a huge deal... I am a talker. Anyway, I was proud of myself! Ha ha

I was thinking about the mental stimulation thread on here yesterday and thought i would try to start doing a little more of that with my pup. What would you all reccomend to do to mentaly stimulate my 10 week old pup? Also, I am about to start switching his feed next week so we shall see how that goes. If 1/2 and 1/2 ok to start with or do I need to make it 1/4 and 3/4 first? Also, how long should the transition take? How long at .25/.75? .5/.5? .75/.25?
I would leave fractions and decimals till he is older. Maybe start him on addition and see how he does with that. :roll: :oops: :lol:

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by proudag08 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:39 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
proudag08 wrote:UPDATE:

Frio is doing fine with the blankets... His "big boy" crate came in today so I will probably keep him in there whenever we can go get it picked up. Also, on a side note, we went for a walk last night (on leash, I live in the suburbs) but it was in a partially developed neighborhood. Although there are no wild birds around there are plenty of new smells to be smelt. The walk was about 30 - 45 minutes long and I didn't say a WORD!!! In most circumstances that is a huge deal... I am a talker. Anyway, I was proud of myself! Ha ha

I was thinking about the mental stimulation thread on here yesterday and thought i would try to start doing a little more of that with my pup. What would you all reccomend to do to mentaly stimulate my 10 week old pup? Also, I am about to start switching his feed next week so we shall see how that goes. If 1/2 and 1/2 ok to start with or do I need to make it 1/4 and 3/4 first? Also, how long should the transition take? How long at .25/.75? .5/.5? .75/.25?
I would leave fractions and decimals till he is older. Maybe start him on addition and see how he does with that. :roll: :oops: :lol:

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:40 pm

I LOVE IT Proudag...! That pup is in good hands, he is going to get the right attention.

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by Buckeye_V » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:22 am

we do the same thing with the food. Put bowl down. Whoa. We start by gently holding them still. When they are still we give the release command. You gradually hold less and less until you can hold a finger on their collar and then eventually no touching at all. Once they get it, I transition to potty time. I make them whoa at the door before going out. Then you can transition that just about anywhere you want. It can and does work. Just repitition with positive reinforcement.

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by proudag08 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:57 am

Buckeye_V wrote:we do the same thing with the food. Put bowl down. Whoa. We start by gently holding them still. When they are still we give the release command. You gradually hold less and less until you can hold a finger on their collar and then eventually no touching at all. Once they get it, I transition to potty time. I make them whoa at the door before going out. Then you can transition that just about anywhere you want. It can and does work. Just repitition with positive reinforcement.

You got it!
I started last night doing just that. He seemed to get the drift pretty well. I held him by the chest and when I felt him move forward I would lift to bowl and say "whoa". I did this until he wasnt putting any pressure on my hand touching his chest then said "ok". I think he will be a quick learner. Took a little less time for him not to give pressure this morning.

Also, is there a way to squash the "keep away/ run away" game pups try to play. He is starting to know when its time to go to bed/ get in the kennel/pen in the mornings and he will run around the house like "Just try to catch me". So far I have calmly walked around calling him until I can get close enough to grab him. I have not taught "come/here" yet but he does know his name. Usually he comes when I call him but like I said, he is getting wise to the routine now. Any reccomendations on stopping this behavior?

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by GUNDOGS » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:06 am

proudag08 wrote:
Buckeye_V wrote:we do the same thing with the food. Put bowl down. Whoa. We start by gently holding them still. When they are still we give the release command. You gradually hold less and less until you can hold a finger on their collar and then eventually no touching at all. Once they get it, I transition to potty time. I make them whoa at the door before going out. Then you can transition that just about anywhere you want. It can and does work. Just repitition with positive reinforcement.

You got it!
I started last night doing just that. He seemed to get the drift pretty well. I held him by the chest and when I felt him move forward I would lift to bowl and say "whoa". I did this until he wasnt putting any pressure on my hand touching his chest then said "ok". I think he will be a quick learner. Took a little less time for him not to give pressure this morning.

Also, is there a way to squash the "keep away/ run away" game pups try to play. He is starting to know when its time to go to bed/ get in the kennel/pen in the mornings and he will run around the house like "Just try to catch me". So far I have calmly walked around calling him until I can get close enough to grab him. I have not taught "come/here" yet but he does know his name. Usually he comes when I call him but like I said, he is getting wise to the routine now. Any reccomendations on stopping this behavior?
dont follow him calling him anymore, not even slowly, just bend down and call his name, almost all the time when you bend down a pup wants to come to you as its a very inviting position for the dog, when he starts to come towards you say "come" and he will relate the word "come" automatically to the action of going to you..when he comes to you praise him up with lots of petting and let him know its a good happy time going into the kennel..just one tip, never get frustrated with him and put him in his kennel on a bad note or he will relate his crate to discipline and not want to go into it..one thing i do is when the pup isnt paying attention i put a little treat into the crate and say "kennel" then when the pup goes in he finds a treat and loves to hear the command and be able to get a treat, later after the command is learned and going well i cut out the treat..another thing i recommend is to make sure hes exercised before kenneling him (if possible), even if its a few throws of the ball or toy, a short walk ect so he can get out some energy and be more relaxed while confined..good luck...ruth
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by DogNewbie » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:09 am

Kennel train him. First get some treats and put one in the kennel and say kennel up and release him. He won't go all the way in the kennel right away but will stick his head in for the treat. Praise him for just doing that. The kennel should always be a 100% safe place where the pup can't do any wrong. Then you progress to making him go into the kennel all the way before he gets the treat and so on. All your doing is making kennel time a happy exciting thing and eventually the pup will be running tail up when he hears kennel up. I also would place random treats in the kennel when he wasn't looking so that when he explores the kennel on his own he'll find the treat and associate it with the kennel not me. Always release him from the kennel with a command too and never let him out if he's whining. Unless it's at night and you think he has to pee. Then let him out but right after he pees pick him up and put him right back in so he understands that whining to get out doesn't mean play time. Good luck!

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by DogNewbie » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:10 am

Ruth beat me to it! :)

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by Redfishkilla » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:11 am

Use a small light lead that he can pull around, it does two things. Teaches him to ignore the lead, which can be helpful in training later, and makes it to where you can catch him (easy to step on lead). If you'd start teaching here with treats then he has to think, "is the treat worth having to go in my kennel". I love watching young pups think.

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by proudag08 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:14 am

DogNewbie wrote:Kennel train him. First get some treats and put one in the kennel and say kennel up and release him. He won't go all the way in the kennel right away but will stick his head in for the treat. Praise him for just doing that. The kennel should always be a 100% safe place where the pup can't do any wrong. Then you progress to making him go into the kennel all the way before he gets the treat and so on. All your doing is making kennel time a happy exciting thing and eventually the pup will be running tail up when he hears kennel up. I also would place random treats in the kennel when he wasn't looking so that when he explores the kennel on his own he'll find the treat and associate it with the kennel not me. Always release him from the kennel with a command too and never let him out if he's whining. Unless it's at night and you think he has to pee. Then let him out but right after he pees pick him up and put him right back in so he understands that whining to get out doesn't mean play time. Good luck!

I have been kennel training him and he does great in his kennel. However, most of the time I have to call him to me and block all other exits so that he will go in on his own power. I never force him in but I do give the command and make that the only route possible. Once in the crate he is happy and doesnt cry. Is this the wrong way to do it?

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:15 am

Feed him in the kennel. Not with the door latched, but just put his bowl in there. Take it out when meal time is over.
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by DogNewbie » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:40 am

proudag08 wrote:
DogNewbie wrote:Kennel train him. First get some treats and put one in the kennel and say kennel up and release him. He won't go all the way in the kennel right away but will stick his head in for the treat. Praise him for just doing that. The kennel should always be a 100% safe place where the pup can't do any wrong. Then you progress to making him go into the kennel all the way before he gets the treat and so on. All your doing is making kennel time a happy exciting thing and eventually the pup will be running tail up when he hears kennel up. I also would place random treats in the kennel when he wasn't looking so that when he explores the kennel on his own he'll find the treat and associate it with the kennel not me. Always release him from the kennel with a command too and never let him out if he's whining. Unless it's at night and you think he has to pee. Then let him out but right after he pees pick him up and put him right back in so he understands that whining to get out doesn't mean play time. Good luck!

I have been kennel training him and he does great in his kennel. However, most of the time I have to call him to me and block all other exits so that he will go in on his own power. I never force him in but I do give the command and make that the only route possible. Once in the crate he is happy and doesn't cry. Is this the wrong way to do it?
I think it sounds like he needs more of an introduction to the command. Not sure if you've done any sessions with the pup specifically to teach him the kennel up command, but it sounds like he could benefit from more of that. Get on your hands and knees and hold the puppy by the collar and get him excited by the treat. Then toss it in the kennel and say kennel up and let go. If he goes all the way in just keep him from coming out for a couple second then say ok and let him out and praise the heck out of him. If he doesn't go all the way in, once he associates the treat with the kennel, say kennel up without tossing the treat in and gently nudge him into the kennel and then give him the treat, so he'll learn that he has to go all the way in before he is rewarded. Then you can just extend the amount of time the pup has to wait in the kennel before being released.

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by Buckeye_V » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:44 am

That is what we do now. Most of the time we feed in crates. Our guys trust their crates and 90% of the time are happy to go there.

I don't chase puppys until they knowingly flip me the bird. When they do that there is a consequence and they know it when it happens. However, they do not get beat. It's just not fun. They'll get to a certain point where they will realize they can run from you and you cannot catch them. They don't think they have to listen. You know, just testing the waters and their boundaries. Just be calm and walk them down. Pick them up and take their freedom away. I won't give my trick away, because it works so good :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by GUNDOGS » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:21 am

proudag08 wrote:Well just an update first:

Frio is doing well with the food transition. Stools are still healthy looking and his appetite is still growing. He has a vet appointment today and he should get his 12 weeks shots and a toe nail clipping. Here are a couple of pictures:
Image
His favorite spot in the morning.

Image
Just give me the toy dad!!!!

Now a couple of questions:
1. I am thinking of teaching sit but a lot of people say not to. It will be fun and playful but should I teach it at all? Hopefully the pup will be a waterfowl dog in the furute as well so it might be worth it.
2. What is the process of teaching whoa at dinner time?
3. Does anyone have a spare clicker (for clicker taining) that they are willing to send me? PM me and I'll give you my address...

Thanks all!
as far as whoa at dinner time the pup will learn quickly if you are consistant with it at every meal..we put the food down and push the pup back into its original place if it moves forward at all before being released with "ok", we then make them wait for a very short time and increase the expected wait time on whoa as they get older..heres a few videos i posted a while back of our 3 (almost 4 month) old shorthair on whoa before being released to eat....ruth

CLICK ON VIDEO...
Image

Image
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by GUNDOGS » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:51 am

i will also add teaching whoa can literally be a lifesaver, this morning my 4 year old let our 3 month old GSP pup harley go out the back door thinking he could go out alone to go pee but he cannot because off of our deck we have an above ground pool with a cover full of freezing water on it so weve been going out with him to be sure he dont fall in, well as soon as i saw her open the door and tell him "ok" to go out i ran over and said VERY loudly HARLEY WHOA and he slammed on the breaks just before reaching the end of the deck, i really think he would have fell in had he not obeyed me, heres a pic of what i mean...ruth

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by proudag08 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:27 pm

UPDATE: I registered the pup with the AKC yesterday. His official name is "Eshod's First Ryde Down The Frio"

"Eshod's" - homage to the great trainer and breeder who helped me through the process and raised both mom and dad, Ray Dohse. Also a huge thanks to Scott B from Hi-tailyn in Ft Worth for helping me through the process.
"First" - This is my first dog and first go-round with this whole training thing so I wanted that in there.
"Ryde" - The Pups sire's call name was Ryder and I love the way he looks and I hear he's a great competetor.
"Down The Frio" - I'm a true blue Texan and one of my favorite things to do in this great state is go to the Frio River and take a nice long float (when we have rain enough to fill the river).

Thanks for all the imput... hopefully I can keep everyone updated on my progress.

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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by pointer26 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:35 am

Hi proudag08,
We as dog owners deny our dogs to be animals. I will list a few things that will give you a different point of view, one from the animal world.

One of the reasons your puppy might not venture to far out is ,wolf and coyote pups understand limits and borders.
Puppies do not venture out to far from the den. If they do they will die. instinct keeps them close to safety. .

In the wild when dogs hunt they tear their prey apart. It take team work to do it. it is easier to tear flesh when being pull by several dogs. These same jaws pick up the most fragile of pups. I personally play tug of war with my dogs. They love it so much they will do anything to play this game. I use it as a training tool.
1. to retrieve things to me and let go on command.
2. to focus on me and learn control in the highest prey drive mode. pup can be in level 10 but if he wants to keep playing, he need to do as I direct and take it back to level1
Dog are smarter than we give them credit for. They know what a toy is and what a bird is . They know when we play,train or hunt. A dog that respects you and knows what you expect from him is not going to play tug of war with a bird, while you are hunting . If you play tug of war with you pup you will satisfy a big part of dog\animal.
If you do decide to do this there are some rules.
1. you start and finish the game. Make it a training session as well. If pup wants to play the game. make the pup wow or sit then release for a retrieve when pup comes back with the toy asked pup to give it to you. When pup has given up the toy then give pup a Que to start the game like game on. when pup is so excited ask pup to let go and heel for a short distance. then I will aked pup to wow or sit and start the whole sequence again.

2.always use the same toy. this is a special toy do not let pup play with it any other time. pup will learn the rules that this is the only time we play this game.

3. If pups teeth touch your skin make a yelping sound and immediately terminate the game. Pups have great control over their jaws. you are not teaching bite inhibition but rather reminding them of what they learn when they were pups and play to rough game was over. Mother also taught them to be gentle with their jaws.
I am not a dog expert but I have trained a Jack russel,gsp and gwp to heel, sit ,wow retrieve and let go playing this game. They all knew hot to use their mouth and jaws



The easiest way to teach a pup to go potty fast it to reward it with a treat. Take a treat with you when to take pup outside. wait for pup to go potty as soon as he does use a Que word and give a treat right away. Pup will think Dad takes me outside and as soon as i potty I get a treat that is great. I need to go potty fast getting treats is great.
Pup will learn that the faster he goes potty the faster he is going to get a treat. the treat is just to teach the command. Eventually you will face out the treat by them the command will be ingrain and pup will do it as a habit.

All of my pups like to chew wood and bark I let them I just supervise to make sure they did not eat it. soon they will realize wood is not food. even know that they are grown up they still chew wood and bark they do not eat it. Wood and bark just does not taste good. dogs chew to release tension anxiety and in the wild dog chew a lot of bones. One way I satisfy the chewing needs of my dogs is with raw bones. I give them deer legs cow feet and bully sticks. If you give them bones make sure they are not cooked. cooked bones will splinter and crack.
Remember pup is just a baby bond with him and give him time be consistent I don't care what kind of trainer your are your dog will learn you better than you will learn him. and pup will do it faster just be consistent and fair.

This are just my way of doing things and I am just try to offer a different point of view. If you have any questions let me know
Thank you and hope you have good times with pup
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by Onk » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:27 am

deke wrote:For whoa when he eats all we did was put the food down and tell him to whoa and when he went for the food we would just lift it over his head and let it sit there for a while then repeat the process. when my pup was 10 weeks we could tell him to whoa on his food and walk out of the room and come back five minutes later and he would just be staring at it drooling alll over the floor. we still do it every once in a while just to mess with him. Works good with treats too, tell him to whoa and you can stick a treat in his mouth and he wont eat it.
Same here, only if he goes for the food I grap him, reset him and say whoa.....I can clean the pen, put the shovel up, sing When The Saints Come Marching Home and take a nap.....my pup will not eat his food till I say get it now! My wife finds this cruel, I find this as one way as establishing my alpha position with the dog. Another great leason from the trainer I used, IMHO!
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by Onk » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:29 am

PS...great example Ruth!
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by GUNDOGS » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:44 am

Onk wrote:PS...great example Ruth!
thanks :D ...ruth
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Re: A couple of questions...

Post by slistoe » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:47 am

Onk wrote:
deke wrote:For whoa when he eats all we did was put the food down and tell him to whoa and when he went for the food we would just lift it over his head and let it sit there for a while then repeat the process. when my pup was 10 weeks we could tell him to whoa on his food and walk out of the room and come back five minutes later and he would just be staring at it drooling alll over the floor. we still do it every once in a while just to mess with him. Works good with treats too, tell him to whoa and you can stick a treat in his mouth and he wont eat it.
Same here, only if he goes for the food I grap him, reset him and say whoa.....I can clean the pen, put the shovel up, sing When The Saints Come Marching Home and take a nap.....my pup will not eat his food till I say get it now! My wife finds this cruel, I find this as one way as establishing my alpha position with the dog. Another great leason from the trainer I used, IMHO!
Definitely some of the most useful advice for any dog owner. If in a family be sure that all members of the family know how to and can control the food in the same way.

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