Which Pointer Stud would you use.

[jcbuttry8]

Alright, It looks like pointers seem to be a big topic lately and bloodline especially.

So, if you had a female that had proven herself not only in the field but in the trials, was holding the CH title, and you had a choice of any stud out there to produce pups with, which stud would you use?

Would you be willing to take a chance with frozen sperm, or would you prefer a stud that is alive and also proven now?

I would love to know what you pointer guys think.

Joe

[topher40]

There are two many factors to consider when asking this question. Are you looking to breed for yourself, wanting to sell puppies, do you want a walking dog, hb dog, AA dog, what colors do you prefer, what size do you like your dogs, how much money do you have/want to spend on the breeding, what are the lines your female is out of, and so many more. There are a lot of great sires living and collected out there but depending on some of the answers to the questions above I couldnt really give you good advice.

[ezzy333]

Impossible question to answersince it would be different for each female and each person. You don't just pick the male that you hear or see the most about but rather what your dog needs to improve it.

Ezzy

[RayGubernat]

Joe -

As Chris said, there are a lot of facets of the situatuion to consider. Principal among these, to me, is what you have in the prospective dam, in terms of abilities and what you want to produce ultimately with your litter. Exactly what are yyour goals for this litter. What do you want produce You must critically evaluate the female and be coldly analytical about it. These are the questions one should ask themselves before they breed. There are MANY Champion dogs that probably should not be bred. If the female is not an outstanding specimen in just about every way, you will not succeed. This sis not to say that the dog cannot have flaws, but the smaller the flaws the less impoortant the flaws, the more likely you will be to get what you are after.

For my money, the female is the more important part of the equation. The female produces a handful of eggs. Considering a normal(in a mathematical sense) distribution of genetics in those eggs, virtually all of the eggs should represent the female fairly closely. With sperm, there are perhaps milliions of sperm per ejaculation. A normal distribution of these sperm will include tens of thousands of individual sperm that are NOT closely representative of that male. The chances of a non representative sperm fertilizing an egg are thus, quite a bit higher. Add to that the imprinting that the female does in the first six or seven weeks of the puppy's life and it is the female whose genetics, temperament and abilities control the results of the breeding, IMO.

Every dog, even the best of them, have areas where they are weak. You want a mating dog that has strength where the other has weakness. You want genetics and abilities that complement each other. That is where the inexactness of the science comes in.

For the type of dog I like, a stud such as Mowhawk Mill Blaze is, I think a very good choice for a wide range of females that have wide ranging ground applications, if one wishes to lean toward A Rambling Rebel/Calico.

RayG

[jcbuttry8]

All right. My pup is young and will be years before I breed her but I am new to the pointer breed but love and am hooked. She is bred fiddler miller. Rocky boy and silver bullet. I love what I see with her now. She should range big when older. I definitely want to run hb trials and would be looking to keep at least a few of the pups if and when I ever breed her. As far as money, wouldn't care how much if I felt I would be getting future performers that I would be happy with and would produce stock that could be successful for other owners. I mean no disrespect to anyone running kennels, but I don't want to start a kennel and don't care about making money on the pups. I would breed her only when I knew what I had was good and wanted to continue with her traits.

Ultimately, the point of this question was to get some great names of stock that the more experienced on this site know about so as to do my own research and be able to make a more informed judgement down the road. As far as range, give me examples of an AA and a shooting dog. I have heard several comment on not going frozen. So figured I would see how the responses turned out here.

Joe

[ymepointer]

you won't know till that female is finished on her game. Keep an eye on the Field trial placements in Major stakes....I like to look at bloodlines that consistently win/compete at the trials listed below.

American Field Quail Futurity

National Derby Championships

Continental Championship

National Free for all

Florida Championships

Quail Championships invitational

[RayGubernat]

There are others out ther that study this and practice it. I am not a breeder and do not pretend otherwise.

Miller and Fiddler cross well with a lot of different stuff. If you go with Miller bred studs(and there are a bunch of them to choose from)you will tend to intensify the Miller characteristics in the litter. if you go with some of the more heavily Fiddler bred dogs, those traits will tend to intensify.

Guard Rail breeding has shown to cross well with Miller...Evolution breeding(which is harder to find) has been shown to cross well with Fiddler. A Rambling Rebel breeding has been shown to cross well with both.

Aside from Miller there is very little that is truly linbred on any major trial sire line. The Erin's kennel concentration of Erin's Southern Justice is perhapsone of the few exceptions. There are linebred Elhew dogs, but I would not consider the linebred Elhews as trial line dogs. Some Elhew outcrosses have done phenomenally well and should be considered.

RayG

[Cajun Casey]

Top Crude. I wouldn't bother with a Ch on a prospective dam, though.

[tommyboy72]

Joe since I bred that pup and gave her to you I think I am qualified to answer the question you posted.

If you wanted to concentrate the Fiddler lines in her which I think would be an excellent idea I would go with any stud dog or frozen semen that Keith Foreman suggested and he is from Sulphur, Oklahoma and I can give you his number if and when you decide to breed.

Richfield Turbo from Poker Straight Kennel or breed her back to her grandfather Poker Straight Jackpot also of Poker Straight Kennel would throw some nice pups.

Ranch One would also be an excellent choice of kennels for a stud dog. I would go with IB Blue or IB Spurn.

If you wanted to put some nice Miller breeding into the pups I would go with Phantom Kennels and breed to Phantoms Wizard or Phantoms Wild Bill.

[tommyboy72]

Joe there is a dog I forgot to mention. Miller's Stock Option is a fantastic dog. I had the chance to buy him but did not pull the trigger at the time and have been kicking myself every since. He is owned by a personal friend of mine. His name is Ron Rawlings and is RonR on this website. I don't think Ron has ever been particularly impressed by Stock but I really like him. Ron is out of Illinois and if you decide later on to breed I also have Ron's number.

[tommyboy72]

I was mistaken I guess his name is now Steelcity's Stock Option. In any case he is a really nice dog.

[gotpointers]

I am going to second rons phantoms wizard pick. I have 3 daughters of his and they are all nice tough wild bird dogs.
My pick would be NC lesters snowatch. There are many positive results showing his talent carries on to his progeny. His son touchs whiteout won the national this year just two years after his father. Phantoms prarie max a littermate to my sonwatch son. Won the alberta open. I haven't kept up with my subscription to the american field. But that's where i looked to decide what stud i wanted a pup from.
I need to re-subscribe now that i am looking for a setter.

[jcbuttry8]

Thank you all for your input. Spent the night looking at some great dogs and kennels. Some real nice dogs out there.

Joe

[Ron R]

I don't think Ron has ever been particularly impressed by Stock but I really like him.

Stock is a great dog and has thrown some high caliber dogs and his only knocks from me would be that he cuts his gate a little short, he has to be ran with an e-collar (he could never be kept on coarse or in a field with out one), and he could use a little more style (just a little low in front at times). He was my # 1 dog for awhile but I had a small window were it seemed every dog I got my hands on turned out to be pretty special. I eventually mistakenly sold them all (except Chopper) for good money thinking they would be easily replaced and boy was I wrong. I have yet to have a dog come through my yard half as good as the ones that I'm referring too, so my window of good fortune has officially closed.....for now .

[PntrRookie]

Stock is a great dog and has thrown some high caliber dogs...he has to be ran with an e-collar (he could never be kept on coarse or in a field with out one)...

Ron do you see the same handling issues in his offspring (or have you heard that from their owners)? I have one with that same issue and was wondering if it is a genetic thing.

[Birdman250]

Principal among these, to me, is what you have in the prospective dam, in terms of abilities and what you want to produce ultimately with your litter. Exactly what are yyour goals for this litter. What do you want produce You must critically evaluate the female and be coldly analytical about it. These are the questions one should ask themselves before they breed. There are MANY Champion dogs that probably should not be bred. If the female is not an outstanding specimen in just about every way, you will not succeed. This sis not to say that the dog cannot have flaws, but the smaller the flaws the less impoortant the flaws, the more likely you will be to get what you are after.
Every dog, even the best of them, have areas where they are weak. You want a mating dog that has strength where the other has weakness. You want genetics and abilities that complement each other. That is where the inexactness of the science comes in.

RayG

I totally agree with what Ray is saying. You are the only person who can answer the type/s of traits desired. Not everyone is going to make a Champion dog without failing and learning from the past. Good luck in your future endeavor.

[Ron R]

Stock is a great dog and has thrown some high caliber dogs...he has to be ran with an e-collar (he could never be kept on coarse or in a field with out one)...

Ron do you see the same handling issues in his offspring (or have you heard that from their owners)? I have one with that same issue and was wondering if it is a genetic thing.

I wouldn't worry about offspring pntrrookie, I believe it's a personality flaw. My dog is an all-age dog bred off of aguably the greatest all-age producer of all time "White Powder". He handles great with an ecollar but he does not have much check in. It's a good thing that he is such an honest dog. So, if you like your dog I'd breed it without hesitation...jmo.