Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

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Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:58 pm

Well even though AKC has done this for a while :roll: This form of AKC registration just like the PAL and ILP is Strictly an AKC thing and other registries like FDSB Does not and Will Not recognize these and when a dog is found to be registered as such with AKC, ALL titles and litters from such dogs will be stricken from the records
Conditional Registration

The AKC’s DNA programs have resulted in an unprecedented level of accuracy to the AKC registry by evaluating the parentage of many AKC dogs and litters. However, for that very small percentage of registered dogs that are found, often years after birth, to have an unknown ancestor, the AKC has canceled the registration.

To maintain genetic diversity, improve customer relations, and still maintain the accuracy of the registry, the Board of Directors approved the concept to allow the issuing of Conditional registration certificates and pedigrees, rather than canceling the registrations of a dog, all of its littermates and all of their progeny in these cases.

This concept was discussed at the September 2005 Delegate Meeting where AKC’s Consultant on DNA Science and Technology Dr. Elaine Ostrander recommended its implementation.

Below are the answers to some questions you may have. We welcome additional feedback at dna@akc.org.
Why is this measure being adopted?
AKC continues to collect a rapidly growing number of DNA samples. By the close of 2006, the AKC had more than 425,000 DNA profiles from 196 AKC and FSS breeds in its database.

With our Frequently Used Sires requirement, many dogs are DNA profiled when they are three or four years old and have sired seven or more litters. AKC evaluates their parentage, and if incorrect parentage is found, it is sometimes not possible to determine the correct parentage of the litter because a potential sire is deceased or unable to be located. Currently, in these cases the registrations of the litter and its members and their offspring are canceled. A single case of an unknown sire can result in the cancellation of hundreds of AKC registrations. The negative reaction, especially from owners who registered their dog with AKC only to later have it canceled, is very damaging to AKC’s image.

Again, it is important to note that Conditional registration is only to be issued in cases where the dog appears and is believed to be purebred – it is just that one of the dog’s ancestors is unknown.
Will the registrations ever revert to Full?

Current policy for introducing breeds into the AKC registry requires a three-generation pedigree on each dog. This policy will also apply to dogs when an "unknown" dog is found in its pedigree based on a failed DNA test. An individual dog's registration can be reverted to regular registration status with the completion of a DNA sample verifying parentage of that individual dog and confirming three generations of DNA-verified parentage. Returning to full registration after three generations of verified parentage is also in line with the acceptance of imported dogs with three-generation pedigrees from the country of origin.

Can these dogs be bred?

If both sire and dam have AKC DNA profiles, the litter may be registered. Litters already registered when the registration is converted will be changed to Conditional status.


Here is where the big problem Starts ..ONLY AKC allows this again FDSB and NSTRA WILL NOT accept these Special Papers like the ILP/PAL Conditional registration ..So if you choose to try and run anything besides AKC's events or register pups with one of those conditional Registered dogs don't be surprised if you win when your titles are stripped....
What about event participation?

A dog with Conditional registration may participate in any event in which PAL/ILP dogs may participate. Additionally, beginning July 1, 2010, if the dog has a DNA profile recorded in the AKC DNA database the dog may compete in Field Trials. They may not participate in Conformation events, and titles previously earned in these events will be removed from the dog’s record. In the fourth generation of DNA-profiled parentage, the registration will revert to Full and the dog may participate in any AKC event.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by RoostersMom » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:16 pm

Interesting .. I've had two ILP registered pointers that came from the shelter and have worked on JH titles. I guess that's o.k. as they'll not ever run in a field trial. With ILP there is not a chance of having a litter because you can't get the ILP designation unless the dog is altered.

Don't know about the "conditional registration" but it sounds interesting.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:17 pm

I don't think there is any basis for comparing ILP/PAL with the conditional registration. The former is a courtesy to allow participation in non-competitive events for animals of unknown origin. The latter is a sanction for incompetent breeding practices or outright lying.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by snips » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:17 pm

I have been sending emails making phone calls, this is a joke..DNA might as well be thrown out. I have heard a letter will be in the next Shorthair talking about this...AKC needs to hear from the public on this issue...Cannot figure out why dogs cannot be shown as crossbred but field dogs can run and obtain a CH... :?: Crazy!!!!
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:27 pm

snips wrote:I have been sending emails making phone calls, this is a joke..DNA might as well be thrown out. I have heard a letter will be in the next Shorthair talking about this...AKC needs to hear from the public on this issue...Cannot figure out why dogs cannot be shown as crossbred but field dogs can run and obtain a CH... :?: Crazy!!!!
I thought the impure breeding was about parentage, not breed. Miller's On Line was ALL pointer, but he wasn't the pointer they said he was........

If four generations can be established by DNA, then I don't have a problem with the dog having full registration status. I think the breeder should be suspended, however.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by birddog1968 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:33 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
I thought the impure breeding was about parentage, not breed. Miller's On Line was ALL pointer, but he wasn't the pointer they said he was........

If four generations can be established by DNA, then I don't have a problem with the dog having full registration status. I think the breeder should be suspended, however.
1. how do you know online is all pointer?

2 it was the dam that was listed wrong, that was rectified and the NC title stood.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by snips » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:48 pm

If there is an unknown dog in there it can be from any breed...It is unknown.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by tommyboy72 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:26 am

Oh Jeez, Ferrel please forgive them they know not what they do? :lol:

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:50 am

On this it isn't about The Miller issue where Dam was proven

This Conditional is where a parent could not be found so AKC decided instead of dumping the dog and all the puppies out of the data base they drop them to Conditional Then for the next 3 generations any dogs bred or bred to a Conditional will have to have DNA Prior to breeding and all pups DNA'd once there is an establish 3 generations again then the pups go back to being Fully registered.

Again This is all AKC and AKC started back a few years ago allowing the Conditional to run in field trials to attain the FC AFC's


So Just saying might spread the word AKC "Q" Conditional Registered dogs are not recognized by Other registries
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by shags » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:55 am

All the rules, regulations, and stringent requirements in the world aren't going to deter cheaters from cheating. That's their game nad they will play it.

A single case of an unknown sire can result in the cancellation of hundreds of AKC registrations. The negative reaction, especially from owners who registered their dog with AKC only to later have it canceled, is very damaging to AKC’s image.. AKC apparently is only concerned with their image, but I see the Q as an option or sort of protection for innocent buyers who purchased a dog in good faith and went on with their particular pursuits with no idea that anything was wrong. For whatever reason, sometimes things don't come to light for years down the road, and a lot of dogs and people are affected through no fault of their own.

I think one 'oops' is plenty, and anyone who has more than one breeding line that results in Qs should be thoroughly investigated and/or sanctioned.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:26 am

shags wrote:All the rules, regulations, and stringent requirements in the world aren't going to deter cheaters from cheating. That's their game nad they will play it.

A single case of an unknown sire can result in the cancellation of hundreds of AKC registrations. The negative reaction, especially from owners who registered their dog with AKC only to later have it canceled, is very damaging to AKC’s image.. AKC apparently is only concerned with their image, but I see the Q as an option or sort of protection for innocent buyers who purchased a dog in good faith and went on with their particular pursuits with no idea that anything was wrong. For whatever reason, sometimes things don't come to light for years down the road, and a lot of dogs and people are affected through no fault of their own.

I think one 'oops' is plenty, and anyone who has more than one breeding line that results in Qs should be thoroughly investigated and/or sanctioned.

here are the extra stipulations on the AKC site
Is the breeder penalized?

The discipline policies have not changed. When incorrect parentage is discovered via compulsory DNA programs, such as the Frequently Used Sires requirement or the Compliance Audit Program, the breeder is subject to a graduated schedule of penalties. When the DNA is on file on a voluntary basis, discipline is not applied.

What about dogs which are not purebred?

Conditional registration is only for dogs that appear to be purebred and had full AKC registration prior to the DNA exclusions being found. If the dogs in question do not appear to be purebred, an impure breeding complaint can be made to the Impure Breeding Committee, which will open an inquiry and take appropriate action
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Joe Amatulli » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:32 am

The AKC screwed up big on this, first of all if you read this you can now legally breed to another breed and you will, 3 generations later be a pure breed. The other, and what is the biggest problem is that people bred to dogs that were properly registered by the AKC and the AKC now comes back years later and says “sorry, but we took your money for the registration of that liter, but we don’t have DNA on one of the ancestors of one of the parents so we are going to pull all of the registrations of any dog that may anything in common with that unknown dog”.

I’m no lawyer, but this would never stand up in a court of law. When the AKC took people’s money they cannot years later make a new rule and in effect punishs people that had nothing to do with what someone else may or may have not done. The AKC needs to pick a date and say from here on all dogs need to be DNAed and what may have been done in the past is grandfathered in and if you are caught misrepresent a liter the consequences will be extreme.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:38 am

Joe Amatulli wrote:The AKC screwed up big on this, first of all if you read this you can now legally breed to another breed and you will, 3 generations later be a pure breed. The other, and what is the biggest problem is that people bred to dogs that were properly registered by the AKC and the AKC now comes back years later and says “sorry, but we took your money for the registration of that liter, but we don’t have DNA on one of the ancestors of one of the parents so we are going to pull all of the registrations of any dog that may anything in common with that unknown dog”.

I’m no lawyer, but this would never stand up in a court of law. When the AKC took people’s money they cannot years later make a new rule and in effect punishs people that had nothing to do with what someone else may or may have not done. The AKC needs to pick a date and say from here on all dogs need to be DNAed and what may have been done in the past is grandfathered in and if you are caught misrepresent a liter the consequences will be extreme.

Well not quite fully so here is more under the conditional section of AKC
Is the breeder penalized?

The discipline policies have not changed. When incorrect parentage is discovered via compulsory DNA programs, such as the Frequently Used Sires requirement or the Compliance Audit Program, the breeder is subject to a graduated schedule of penalties. When the DNA is on file on a voluntary basis, discipline is not applied.

What about dogs which are not purebred?

Conditional registration is only for dogs that appear to be purebred and had full AKC registration prior to the DNA exclusions being found. If the dogs in question do not appear to be purebred, an impure breeding complaint can be made to the Impure Breeding Committee, which will open an inquiry and take appropriate action.


Will the new mixed-breed DNA test be employed in determining Conditional status?

No. These new DNA tests are designed to determine the primary and secondary genetic heritage of mixed breed dogs, not to certify whether or not a dog is purebred. The AKC believes that the best way to determine parentage of a dog is still based on AKC’s long-standing DNA program and AKC does not intend to use these tests to evaluate a dog’s status as purebred. The AKC has long had procedures in place to deal with cases of impure breeding and will continue to use this method in dealing with any matters concerning the parentage of AKC registered dogs. AKC will, however, maintain positive contact with the laboratories offering breed identification testing, and may incorporate some of these techniques as a tool in registration inquiries in the future.

How will this affect the integrity of the AKC studbook?

A dog or bitch is listed in the AKC studbook after their first litter is registered. If a dog with Conditional registration (noted with the letter designation Q in the AKC registration number) appears in the studbook, it will help breeders quickly identify incomplete pedigrees. Having this tool will alert breeders that a Conditional dog has remained in its breed’s gene pool.

Will Conditional Litters be eligible for advertising in AKC’s Online Breeder Classifieds?

Yes, but the litter listing will note that the litter has Conditional registration, with a link for more information.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by shags » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:40 am

Joe Amatulli wrote:The AKC screwed up big on this, first of all if you read this you can now legally breed to another breed and you will, 3 generations later be a pure breed. The other, and what is the biggest problem is that people bred to dogs that were properly registered by the AKC and the AKC now comes back years later and says “sorry, but we took your money for the registration of that liter, but we don’t have DNA on one of the ancestors of one of the parents so we are going to pull all of the registrations of any dog that may anything in common with that unknown dog”.

I’m no lawyer, but this would never stand up in a court of law. When the AKC took people’s money they cannot years later make a new rule and in effect punishs people that had nothing to do with what someone else may or may have not done. The AKC needs to pick a date and say from here on all dogs need to be DNAed and what may have been done in the past is grandfathered in and if you are caught misrepresent a liter the consequences will be extreme.
FDSB too. I really feel sorry for the people who got sucked in through no fault of their own.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Crestonegsp » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:01 am

The AKC will and has given DNA numbers to dogs where the parents are not identified by DNA sample. Here is an example: a DNA sample is sent in and one parent never had a DNA profile on file. The owner says the one parent has died and it can not be DNA tested and the AKC gives them a number allows them to compete and has them on the 3 generation program to be registered as pure breed. The DNA number is than used for the FDSB, the dog can now be ran and no questions are asked and any wins they have are upheld.

What a mess we have. You can have a dog that may or may not be what is stated on their pedigree and because of the loop holes people get away with it. Either the AKC and AF need to say "without DNA proof of parents you can not register the dog" or get rid of the program and start over.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by ACooper » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:36 am

Crestonegsp wrote: The owner says the one parent has died and it can not be DNA tested and the AKC gives them a number allows them to compete and has them on the 3 generation program to be registered as pure breed. The DNA number is than used for the FDSB, the dog can now be ran and no questions are asked and any wins they have are upheld.

If I am not mistaken this has already happened/happening.
Last edited by ACooper on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:38 am

Where does it say specifically that the Q will be removed from dogs after generations of breeding? I thought the DNA pedigree had to be built backwards.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Crestonegsp » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:58 am

ACooper it is and has happened. If the AKC and AF are going to hold all owners to a DNA standard than it needs to be an all or nothing deal and not "oh we will make an exception in this case"
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by ACooper » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:02 am

Crestonegsp wrote:ACooper it is and has happened. If the AKC and AF are going to hold all owners to a DNA standard than it needs to be an all or nothing deal and not "oh we will make an exception in this case"
I agree 100%. More of this don't rock the boat crap... Meanwhile making cheating essentially legal!

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:21 am

AKC started this Conditional stuff...They are doing everything they can to still bring in money..Look at the Breeder of MErit..rewarding rbeeders for registering every puppy in every litter they have :roll:

And as for as Other registries are concerned they are not going to recognize AKC's conditional or other Special Registrations

That is a first I have ever heard of a DNA number given to a dog with No DNA

i have heard before this conditional stuff where a dam or Sire is/was "unavailable" and/or there was not enough evidence could be proven or disproven and after that point because of some other questionable things which didn't add up on a dog the breeder then had to DNA everything in kennel after that for any of their litters to be Registered.

If that is the case of some Made up DNA ..If that is true

I can quickly see FDSB stopping the ability to transfer of DNA from AKC.

All this stuff AKC is doing lately they are really dropping their creditability for those that do play by the rules and have integrity in what they are doing
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by shags » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:37 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Where does it say specifically that the Q will be removed from dogs after generations of breeding? I thought the DNA pedigree had to be built backwards.
An individual dog's registration can be reverted to regular registration status with the completion of a DNA sample verifying parentage of that individual dog and confirming three generations of DNA-verified parentage.

Good point. Reads to me that the dog and 3 gens back need DNA verification. Not 3 gens forward. Having to go back will be costly if no DNAs have been done, and it may be impossible for many given loss of dogs. So I take it that the Q dog may compete, but no matter what, if its parentage is not verified, it will always be Qed and all its get will be Qed as well.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:49 am

http://www.akc.org/reg/conditional_reg_info.cfm
Why are Conditional Pedigrees considered the solution?

The AKC Board, staff, and Dr. Elaine Ostrander (consultant to AKC on DNA science and technology issues) have carefully and thoroughly considered this issue, weighing the benefits and drawbacks to various solutions.

In her September 2005 address to the Delegate Body, Dr. Ostrander recommended that AKC adopt this solution to allow for informed breeder decisions while maintaining a large population for genetic diversity.

The conclusion reached by all is that totally removing purebred dogs from the gene pool may not be the best thing for the breed populations or for AKC’s relationship with dog owners. By fully disclosing the incident of unknown parentage, breeders and dog owners can make their own, informed opinions about whether or not they will buy or breed a certain dog.

Will the registrations ever revert to Full?

Current policy for introducing breeds into the AKC registry requires a three-generation pedigree on each dog. This policy will also apply to dogs when an "unknown" dog is found in its pedigree based on a failed DNA test. An individual dog's registration can be reverted to regular registration status with the completion of a DNA sample verifying parentage of that individual dog and confirming three generations of DNA-verified parentage. Returning to full registration after three generations of verified parentage is also in line with the acceptance of imported dogs with three-generation pedigrees from the country of origin.

Can these dogs be bred?

If both sire and dam have AKC DNA profiles, the litter may be registered. Litters already registered when the registration is converted will be changed to Conditional status.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by shags » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:08 pm

Oh i see what you mean. Q Dog gets dna verified, his own get (Q2) are verified, then their Q3 are dna'ed, and anything subsequent gets full registration?

I was thinking only about the the first Q dog having to go back 3 gens. Sorry, Saturday brain fog :oops:

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Joe Amatulli » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:21 pm

So in effect by doing what the AKC has done it is now legal to breed to pointers and 3 generation later you will have a pure bred GSP.

I am a realest and will and do call a spade, a spade. The facts are that virtually every field bred pointing dog has been mixed with something else, whether it was done to improve the breed or too out and out cheat is a subject for another thread, the facts are that it has been done, rather regularly. How else do you think GSPs got to look, run and point the way they do, or Brits get to be 40, 50 Lbs and a high tail and where do you think the white came from in Veslas, I think you get the picture. There are many of us that have not nor will we, but if we breed to one that has, it is totally not right that although the AKC has accepted and registered that dog, that they come back to us years later and say oh well, sorry!
Knine I am sure that if they did a bred DNA test on any of the pointing field dogs that they would have a very tough time finding one that will pass!

Personally I don’t care what people do or run because as far as I am concerned 70 to 80% of what the dog becomes, is what you put into them. There are not a whole lot of people out there that simply know what needs to be done with a dog. You can give them the best dog ever born and they still wouldn’t be able to win, only back into one now and then.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:40 pm

Joe Amatulli wrote:So in effect by doing what the AKC has done it is now legal to breed to pointers and 3 generation later you will have a pure bred GSP.

I am a realest and will and do call a spade, a spade. The facts are that virtually every field bred pointing dog has been mixed with something else, whether it was done to improve the breed or too out and out cheat is a subject for another thread, the facts are that it has been done, rather regularly. How else do you think GSPs got to look, run and point the way they do, or Brits get to be 40, 50 Lbs and a high tail and where do you think the white came from in Veslas, I think you get the picture. There are many of us that have not nor will we, but if we breed to one that has, it is totally not right that although the AKC has accepted and registered that dog, that they come back to us years later and say oh well, sorry!
Knine I am sure that if they did a bred DNA test on any of the pointing field dogs that they would have a very tough time finding one that will pass!

Personally I don’t care what people do or run because as far as I am concerned 70 to 80% of what the dog becomes, is what you put into them. There are not a whole lot of people out there that simply know what needs to be done with a dog. You can give them the best dog ever born and they still wouldn’t be able to win, only back into one now and then.

AKC is just turning to be more and more about the $$$$$$ I only posted because there are people who are taking those "Special registered" dogs ILP PAL and Conditional Registered dogs thinking that they are going to run in Other then AKC recognized Tests, field trials or events with them.
There are some that get pretty upset that Other entities won't accept their dogs with those Special registries that AKC created. There are some out there that have won in other venues that have had their win and or Title stripped much less if there was any litters from said dog those lose their registry also.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:41 pm

So, if I have Q pups out of a Q grandaughter of a dog whose papers have been converted to Conditional, and my dog and the sire of the pups, and their parents and grandparents all have DNA, the offspring of my pups can have full unrestricted registration, with DNA requirements met, even though the original bad paper dog never was reinstated? ??? That doesn't sound right.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by shags » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:16 am

IIRC that's how it was done back in the 50s when Irish Setters were crossed with English; one outcross, then 3 generations later the get was considered purebred.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Crestonegsp » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:31 am

I agree with Joe's premise that we have gotten to where we are today because of cross breeding and you only get out of a dog what you put into a them. The fact that cross breeding takes place and dogs are registered as one breed when they are not is what bothers me. We are all big girls and boys and when someone breeds a pointer to a gsp or a viz and lies about it being a pure breed and who the parents are, then gets the litter registered and has the AKC accept the DNA on false claims that is unethical. The fact is that AF or AKC would register a dog and record wins unless they have a DNA number and if you lied about the parents that is cheating and you might as well have your scout carry a bird in their pocket or an extra gps reciever or put two spikes on the inside of their collar. I know the pointer has been breed into gsps, heck I have seen Lemon GSPs and my dogs I am sure have pointer somewhere behind them but we can't allow it to be done in a way that only makes a mockery out of the sport.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:14 am

Cajun Casey wrote:So, if I have Q pups out of a Q grandaughter of a dog whose papers have been converted to Conditional, and my dog and the sire of the pups, and their parents and grandparents all have DNA, the offspring of my pups can have full unrestricted registration, with DNA requirements met, even though the original bad paper dog never was reinstated? ??? That doesn't sound right.
The flaw in your post is NONE of the "Conditional" dogs get reinstated...Only once there is Complete 3 Generations of DNA'd Background will that future generation be able to go from a conditional bred pup to a full registered Bred pup

or If the Conditional dog DNA known pedigree back ground is found to be correct Then it can be reinstated until then all conditional dogs remain conditional Until there is Complete 3 Generations of DNA'd Background on future get

The other thing..If it is found that someone is cross breeding
What about dogs which are not purebred?

Conditional registration is only for dogs that appear to be purebred and had full AKC registration prior to the DNA exclusions being found[/color]. If the dogs in question do not appear to be purebred, an impure breeding complaint can be made to the Impure Breeding Committee, which will open an inquiry and take appropriate action.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Joe Amatulli » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:26 am

kninebirddog wrote: If the dogs in question do not appear to be purebred, an impure breeding complaint can be made to the Impure Breeding Committee, which will open an inquiry and take appropriate action.
Knine what you may not be understanding is that few if any dogs will test a pure. This is a screw up and we need to move on, what the AKC does, does not do that, if anything they have made an even bigger problem.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:57 am

Joe Amatulli wrote:
kninebirddog wrote: If the dogs in question do not appear to be purebred, an impure breeding complaint can be made to the Impure Breeding Committee, which will open an inquiry and take appropriate action.
Knine what you may not be understanding is that few if any dogs will test a pure. This is a screw up and we need to move on, what the AKC does, does not do that, if anything they have made an even bigger problem.
I do understand I was merely showing how AKC thinks they are solving a problem. And again my point to this thread was to point out to people if they have a dog with a special registration to stay with AKC events only
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Sharon » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:20 am

Well said kninedog. Hopefully the right people get the message.

The CKC allows "specially registered" dogs to participate in Obedience tests only. They changed their policy due to fewer obedience registrations participating ie $$$$$$$
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by snips » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:26 pm

We have submitted letters to Doug Ljungren, Dir of Performance Events at AKC...His reply has been he is working with the Pres of GSPCA to resolve this pertaining to Field Trials....
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:37 pm

snips wrote:We have submitted letters to Doug Ljungren, Dir of Performance Events at AKC...His reply has been he is working with the Pres of GSPCA to resolve this pertaining to Field Trials....


So it's a GSP problem?

I was told that the original dog had to be reconciled before any descendants could have full registration. That was last year, I believe. Is there a definitive statement on situations like I described. I don't have a real dog in that situation, by the way. All my females, sadly, I know good and well their pedigrees. :D
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by snips » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:36 pm

I know, seems like it should be ALL field trials...
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:52 pm

snips wrote:I know, seems like it should be ALL field trials...
Guess I should join GSPCA........
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by ElhewPointer » Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:10 pm

So if what I am reading is true. Since this years National Champion(GSP) is a Q registered dog, are the dogs titles stripped from him?

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by myerstenn » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:08 pm

Its not only an AKC "thing" it will also affect dogs that win FDSB championships.The FIELD has recently stated that they would not recognize any AKC Q registered dogs that win an AMERICAN FIELD Championship. The Title (s) will be Withheld untill such registration is cleared by the AKC.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:12 pm

Statements are on both the GSPCA and NGSPA websites.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by ElhewPointer » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:25 pm

So the Havoc dog will get his titles pulled. Wow! You would think that would be big news in the GSP world.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:20 pm

myerstenn wrote:Its not only an AKC "thing" it will also affect dogs that win FDSB championships.The FIELD has recently stated that they would not recognize any AKC Q registered dogs that win an AMERICAN FIELD Championship. The Title (s) will be Withheld untill such registration is cleared by the AKC.
That was the purpose of this whole thread fdsb and some other registries will not accept Q dogs period.and if I am under standing it correctlany dog traced back to a Q dog will be stricken from fdsb records wins and all.
And once a Q dog always a Q dog in AKC only once a future progeny has a full_3 generation DNA pedigree will those dogs be able to go back to a full AKC registration

If you have any questions contact bernie at american field
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Joe Amatulli » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:18 pm

Vegas just to set the record straight, no Havoc’s titles have not been pulled, but been put on hold. The AKC is reviewing the whole Q thing and depending on what they do, will determine what happens to his titles. Personally I think the whole thing stinks and the guy that dropped a dime on Yates (which had nothing to do with the grand sire and a true gentleman and a quality individual) should be strung up by you know whats (I heard it was someone from Ohio).

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by myerstenn » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:19 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:So if what I am reading is true. Since this years National Champion(GSP) is a Q registered dog, are the dogs titles stripped from him?

If you noticed in the last few fields "The German Pointing Dog Championships" there was an * asteric by the title --* pending DNA Certification

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by myerstenn » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:36 pm

Joe Amatulli wrote:Vegas just to set the record straight, no Havoc’s titles have not been pulled, but been put on hold. The AKC is reviewing the whole Q thing and depending on what they do, will determine what happens to his titles. Personally I think the whole thing stinks and the guy that dropped a dime on Yates (which had nothing to do with the grand sire and a true gentleman and a quality individual) should be strung up by you know whats (I heard it was someone from Ohio).
So in your opinion Joe, cheating is OK. Just for the record the dog hasn't won any AKC titles and the FIELD is only going to recognize his FDSB titles if the dog does DNA. So you are not correct in your statement of above . These titles are pending proper DNA identification.The dog is currently eight years old and it ain' t happened yet

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by ElhewPointer » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:41 pm

My question is, why should the dog even be allowed to compete? Man, this could/is a black eye in my opinion on the GSP world.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by myerstenn » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:52 pm

Based on the fields ruling he is ineligible to compete untill the DNA issue is resolved

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by ElhewPointer » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:58 pm

myerstenn wrote:Based on the fields ruling he is ineligible to compete untill the DNA issue is resolved

Thats what I got from it also. How is the NGSPA not all over this. Its the freaking National Champion. Are you kidding?

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Middlecreek » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:02 pm

Wow!!! Met Jim and his crew at Booneville this year and he is a super nice guy that would give you the shirt off his back. I would be more than a little upset if it were one of my dogs that could no longer compete and had their titles/placements stripped because of someone else. Havoc is a nice dog for sure, hopefully they can get it figured out, Jim and the dogs he's been running had a good shot at D.O.Y. and H.O.Y.
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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Joe Amatulli » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:07 pm

Ned, no cheating is NOT okay. You miss three important points to this, first; Yates had nothing to do with Havoc’s grand sire (and for that matter it was a litter maid to the grand sire) and he was not the one that cheated, but he is the one that is paying the consequences. Second; I strongly doubt that you can find a field pointing dog (no matter the breed) that does not have pointer or some other breed in them, third; the AKC by the issuing of a registration on the sire and the grand sire says that those dogs are GSPs, years later they retract the registration and on all the dogs that were in that line. The AKC did this without giving it a whole lot of thought to the real world and the consequences of their actions.

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Re: Conditional Registration is an AKC thing Only

Post by Cajun Casey » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:40 pm

It's not about breed. It's about correct parentage. Anyone have a pedigree on Direct Deposit?
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