Breeder Locating

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:30 pm

Does anyone know how to contact Marvin Mcguire? He bred my GSP and I'm trying to track down AKC numbers so I can get him registered.

If it helps any, I know his daddy is "Rosco Royal Comander Duke" and his mom is "Odettes Madam".

Thank you for the help.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:41 pm

Didn't he give a puppy registration paper with the pup

If he didn't register the litter then the breeder will have to go through the process litter registration process as it isn't as simple as getting registration numbers from breeder and then registering an unpapered pup.

Also if he doesn't own the sire then he will also need to get a stud form for the sire owner or go through the online process depending on how old the pups are.

After he files and pays for that then he sends you the paper for your pup so then you can register your pup with AKC

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:11 pm

Call Teresa at AKC, 919-233-9767, and see if she can find if your dog's litter was registered. If not, good luck finding the guy.

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:07 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Call Teresa at AKC, 919-233-9767, and see if she can find if your dog's litter was registered. If not, good luck finding the guy.

I called the AKC and they really didn't want to be any help at all. I'm suprised people allow them to get away with being so unhelpful. I didn't get Teresa, it was another lady. She didn't even want to enter Marvin Mcguire into the computer to see if he exists. This is really fustrating because I have partial numbers for the parents and a liter number but AKC won't even tell me if those numbers are in their records.

Anyone have an other ideas on how to go about this?

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:15 pm

I don't find either dog you posted in the AKC data base

I tried to add them in my account as dogs of interest this is what I got back "No results were found that matched your search criteria. " on both dogs

so Not sure what to tell you

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:24 pm

...nothing that matches on ofa either

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:34 pm

kninebirddog wrote:I don't find either dog you posted in the AKC data base

I tried to add them in my account as dogs of interest this is what I got back "No results were found that matched your search criteria. " on both dogs

so Not sure what to tell you

Oh boy... I wonder if that means it was shady...

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:44 pm

This is a prime example as to why you need to get the Reg papers at time of purchase if you don't & were lied to you are pretty much ---- out of luck!!
I'm not saying everyone is dishonest but the one that is will cost you.
Good Luck!!

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:54 pm

Try The Field tomorrow. If you would like to PM what you have of the numbers and where the breeder was located and I'll give it my best Nancy Drew.

I do not give papers at all. I am now doing 100% of the pups through Litter Plus.

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:58 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:This is a prime example as to why you need to get the Reg papers at time of purchase if you don't & were lied to you are pretty much ---- out of luck!!
I'm not saying everyone is dishonest but the one that is will cost you.
Good Luck!!

He was a rescue and I've been working through his old owner for a lot of this information. Next time I talk to them I'll see if they have the paperwork with the AKC golden stamp on it. If not, I think I can register him as a limited, or some other odd class. He's very much so a GSP, I just don't have papers for him yet.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:42 pm

I looked at the numbers you sent and they are missing the Group alpha prefixes. Also, the sire's number has to be incorrect because his studbook year is given as 14. I will do a little more digging later.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:05 pm

Okay, your boy is out of Odette's Medan by Roscoe's Royal Command of Duke. At least two littermates are registered.

Did I mention my shady past as a skip chaser?

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:17 pm

If you don't get duplicate papers from the breeder or find the ones that came with the pup that the breeder sends with the pup the best you will be able to get from AKC is an ILP PAL after proof of spay/neuter those papers will allow you to do hunt tests agility and obedience

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:41 pm

kninebirddog wrote:If you don't get duplicate papers from the breeder or find the ones that came with the pup that the breeder sends with the pup the best you will be able to get from AKC is an ILP PAL after proof of spay/neuter those papers will allow you to do hunt tests agility and obedience

I may have to do that. With help I've found out exactly who his Dad and Mom are. Maybe that will be enough for to convenience to the AKC to help me talk with the Breeder and get some of that paperwork.

Roscoe's Royal Command Of Duke - SR20313414 <-Daddy
Odette's Medan - SR15725901 <-Mommy
bday: 10/11/2009

Thanks again every one that's helped in this effort.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:10 am

Now here's your problem. It's a rescue. Period. There would have to DNA testing and proof that the dog is really who is. Bottom line. I sold a dog to a person who never registered the dog, but he two of my male pups. Gave one away and couldn't remember which was which. The new guy had the male bred to a female and wanted to register the litter. No way it was going to happen. Of course AKC got involved. When they learned what was happening, they also said no way. Not without proof and DNA. Don't mean to sound harsh, but that's the world.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:59 am

Sloppy breeding practices are not the new owners' fault. In this case, I would recommend the Purebred Alternative Listing option. The dog, which is neutered, will be eligible for the hunt tests the owner wants to participate in and the paperwork is much cheaper. If he wants a pretty pedigree, one can be made from a littermate's. It just wouldn't be AKC.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:35 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Sloppy breeding practices are not the new owners' fault. In this case, I would recommend the Purebred Alternative Listing option. The dog, which is neutered, will be eligible for the hunt tests the owner wants to participate in and the paperwork is much cheaper. If he wants a pretty pedigree, one can be made from a littermate's. It just wouldn't be AKC.

The only sloppy breeding practice was the first owner of the pup, who failed to register the dog. Second was the new owner of the dog breeding it to another dog and then wanting all the cake and ice cream to go with it. Let's don't blame any breeder til everything comes out in the wash. The OP didn't make any comments about it being a rescue til later. That's when everything comes out. I've taken recues with the AKC papers and they are mostly blocked out, the reg. numbers. That's how this guy got part of the reg. The owners name is most likely still on them. :roll:

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:57 am

If a dog lands in rescue or produces an unregisterable litter, that is the fault and responsibility of the breeder of that dog. They did not follow up, they did not care, whatever. They have added to the junk dog population and either the dog dies or someone else cleans up the mess.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:20 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:If a dog lands in rescue or produces an unregisterable litter, that is the fault and responsibility of the breeder of that dog. They did not follow up, they did not care, whatever. They have added to the junk dog population and either the dog dies or someone else cleans up the mess.

Sorry but alot of breeder never knows what happens. Too many things can change. People move, divorce, dogs get killed by cars. Lots of varibles. Dogs get loose and get bred to mutts and they have to be fixed. That's the breeder fault. Don't think so. The op said the dog had papers. No other way to get that info.

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:11 pm

Well I'll keep trying. The owner of the mom and dad seem to be really active based on their AKC record so maybe I'll be able to catch up with them while they do their circuit across the country. Oddly enough, two of his litter-mates are registered.

If I do go through with a PAL, is the only difference that he can't do field trials and dog shows? He's already neutered so future breeding isn't a concern.

Thanks again.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:38 pm

That is the only difference as far as you are concerned. His titles would not appear on his parents' progeny reports, but that reflects on the breeder.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:19 pm

The major problem with that is the OP is not the first owner of the dog and did not get the dog from the breeder. It's not the breeder's fault. If the breeder doen't want to get involved, they don't have to and AKC will side with the breeder. Not the new owner.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:39 pm

kensfishing wrote:The major problem with that is the OP is not the first owner of the dog and did not get the dog from the breeder. It's not the breeder's fault. If the breeder doen't want to get involved, they don't have to and AKC will side with the breeder. Not the new owner.

Not true if someone questions parentage. Dozens of litter registrations are suspended every month for just that reason.

Guy just wants to have his dog legit for hunt tests. I helped him with the details. Everyone wins if he and the dog enjoy the activity.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:09 pm

Your dog can run in hunt tests and many venues EXCEPT for showing (conformation) and he couldn't do that anyway as he is neutered. Just apply for the ILP, I've done it with several fosters so I could run them in hunt tests. There is no need to have the dog's papers to do this. Why bother with the mess and expense anyway. You can still compete at the level you want to with an ILP.

http://www.akc.org/reg/ilpex.cfm

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:17 pm

Yes he can play the hunt tests and other games. But all of the orginal info was toward AKC and bashing the breeder. Everyone assumed the breeder didn't give the papers. Everyone assumed the owner was getting the shaft. Everyone assumed the opposite of what was going on. They told back in 68 to 71 flying search and rescue that Assumtion was the mother of all Evils. Let's try and find out everything before we start bashing all breeder. I've got every record of every dog I've ever bred, male and female and everyone who bought them. This has been for along time.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:41 pm

kensfishing wrote:Yes he can play the hunt tests and other games. But all of the orginal info was toward AKC and bashing the breeder. Everyone assumed the breeder didn't give the papers. Everyone assumed the owner was getting the shaft. Everyone assumed the opposite of what was going on. They told back in 68 to 71 flying search and rescue that Assumtion was the mother of all Evils. Let's try and find out everything before we start bashing all breeder. I've got every record of every dog I've ever bred, male and female and everyone who bought them. This has been for along time.

I believe everything was settled until you chimed in to define the "problem" and share your experience.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:51 pm

There's alot info on this site at times, some like some don't.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:35 pm

Give it up and get a registerable pup or dog from a reputable breeder.Was you worried about papers when you rescued him?Papers don't hunt and find birds anyhow,but dogs do.

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:52 pm

BoJack wrote:Give it up and get a registerable pup or dog from a reputable breeder.Was you worried about papers when you rescued him?Papers don't hunt and find birds anyhow,but dogs do.

He's a good dog and we've already found a few birds. I was hoping I could get his papers from the breeder but it seems like that will be exceptionally challenging even though I know the dogs he came from, the breeders name, etc. I'll just have to get him PAL registered so he can play in the hunt tests. It will be good to help him socialize and give him something to do during the off season.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:01 pm

Here you go!

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/ilpform.pdf

The way I look at it, you did a good thing taking a rescue, and anything you make of him will be yours and his together, with no one to claim credit from you.

Good luck. Train for Senior Hunter, even if you start with Junior. The retrieving will be easier.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:19 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:If a dog lands in rescue or produces an unregisterable litter, that is the fault and responsibility of the breeder of that dog. They did not follow up, they did not care, whatever. They have added to the junk dog population and either the dog dies or someone else cleans up the mess.

You mean kind of like Ford not following up and making sure you changed oil. Just don't believe you have any idea what the problem really is or who to blame if anyone. Many times it is prudent to just help solve problems without trying to place blame.

Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:29 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:If a dog lands in rescue or produces an unregisterable litter, that is the fault and responsibility of the breeder of that dog. They did not follow up, they did not care, whatever. They have added to the junk dog population and either the dog dies or someone else cleans up the mess.
You mean kind of like Ford not following up and making sure you changed oil. Just don't believe you have any idea what the problem really is or who to blame if anyone. Many times it is prudent to just help solve problems without trying to place blame.

Ezzy

if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:35 am

Having spent the last 10 years working with the local shelter and breed specific rescues, I fall into the same category as the Cajun. If you produced it, you are responsible for it - for the life of the dog. You need to make sure it's going to a good home, make sure they are willing to follow a "return to breeder" clause if something happens and they can't keep the dog AND make sure those that aren't breeding quality are sold on a limited registration and encouraged to spay/neuter or be vigilant with the dog to see it never breeds.

If the person producing the pups doesn't take responsibility for the life they're creating then that's just wrong to me. It's not like a car or truck getting an oil change, it's a living, breathing animal that has the potential to produce more life. And way too many of those pups end up in bad situations or end up in shelters. About 40% of the dogs/puppies in our local shelter are purebreds. I've fostered upwards of 50 english pointers, GSP's, Weims, Brits and Vizslas. It's a crying shame that breeders let some of these crappy owners get their dogs. Accidents do happen when you pick the wrong family for your puppy, but if you're a good breeder, that should be the exception, not the rule - and you should be in contact with the dog's owners for the life of the dog so that you can step in to help the dog (that you produced) find a better situation.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:12 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:If a dog lands in rescue or produces an unregisterable litter, that is the fault and responsibility of the breeder of that dog. They did not follow up, they did not care, whatever. They have added to the junk dog population and either the dog dies or someone else cleans up the mess.
You mean kind of like Ford not following up and making sure you changed oil. Just don't believe you have any idea what the problem really is or who to blame if anyone. Many times it is prudent to just help solve problems without trying to place blame.

Ezzy

I as a breeder of your dogs are not in the least responsible where they end up. You took that responsibility when you bought the pup. If I want to retain the responsibility then I am keeping the pup as mine and not letting you enjoy all of the good times and then blaming me because of something you did. Just ain't going to happen.

if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem

And if this is true then you and I are part of the problem because we sure are part of the solution for this pup.

Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:23 am

Last.

markj · Post by **markj** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:40 am

If you produced it, you are responsible for it - for the life of the dog.

Bullpucky. A person buys something it is his to do with as he pleases. He OWNS it, a guy buys a car from me I sure am not responsible for it after he drives it off, same thing with a pup. Dont want to be responsible for pup? then dont buy it.

Levis never did fix them pants I tore open, the store sold em to me laffed in my face and offered to sell me a new pair.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:37 pm

markj wrote:
If you produced it, you are responsible for it - for the life of the dog.
Bullpucky. A person buys something it is his to do with as he pleases. He OWNS it, a guy buys a car from me I sure am not responsible for it after he drives it off, same thing with a pup. Dont want to be responsible for pup? then dont buy it.

Levis never did fix them pants I tore open, the store sold em to me laffed in my face and offered to sell me a new pair.

Agreed 110%. If we start telling people what they can do or how they can do it, then we fail as a nation. Plain and simple. We cann't have people interfering with our lives any more than they do now. We as a nation have too many rules. Yes there are people who don't need a dog of any sort, but it happens. If I buy a pup and someone tells me I can't do this or that, then we won't do any bussiness. Don't care how great a person you are or your dogs. Won't be done. I guess some of these people need to go overseas to some other country and tell them how to run things. See how far it gets them.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:52 pm

I guess no one is allowed to have a happy ending.

Let me tell you "not the breeder's responsibility" folks something. It is. You put that dog on this Earth. Selling it or giving it away does not erase that action. But, likely, someone else will have to provide the safety net if something goes awry because once money changed hands, you were out of it.

In the oil business, here, now, if you drill it, you produce it or plug it. They regulatory folks are a lot better than they used to be and there's a presettlement rule that was put in effect after the mini-boom of the late 70s-early 80s that prevents a lot of nonsense. That didn't used to be the case and often, still, someone else has to foot the bill for the long gone fly by night operators who left messes behind, even fifty years ago. I know. I have one in my backyard. Royalty owners pay, producers pay, and the taxpayers pay. But, those who created the mess are long gone and never think about it. That's my analogy for the type of breeders y'all are supporting.

Now, have a nice day.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:13 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:I guess no one is allowed to have a happy ending.

Let me tell you "not the breeder's responsibility" folks something. It is. You put that dog on this Earth. Selling it or giving it away does not erase that action. But, likely, someone else will have to provide the safety net if something goes awry because once money changed hands, you were out of it.

In the oil business, here, now, if you drill it, you produce it or plug it. They regulatory folks are a lot better than they used to be and there's a presettlement rule that was put in effect after the mini-boom of the late 70s-early 80s that prevents a lot of nonsense. That didn't used to be the case and often, still, someone else has to foot the bill for the long gone fly by night operators who left messes behind, even fifty years ago. I know. I have one in my backyard. Royalty owners pay, producers pay, and the taxpayers pay. But, those who created the mess are long gone and never think about it. That's my analogy for the type of breeders y'all are supporting.

Now, have a nice day.

So i guess you're in favor of going back to when Egland ruled the U.S.? Or how Germany ruled Europe. More controll of what everyone else is doing. I said before I commend you people that do rescues. You must have more time and money than most. Bet you sit home and watch General Hospital or Days of Your Life. You actually interfered with someone elses life and condemed them as breeders. You don't know them or the person who first bought the pup. You have no idea what happened. Do you have that much time to figure out what every breeder does? If that's the case you've said every breeder out there and on this board is wrong. I've kept more of my pups because my wife or I didn't like someone. That's just us. So that's my analogy for how I feel.

remmy · Post by **remmy** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:39 pm

RoostersMom wrote:Having spent the last 10 years working with the local shelter and breed specific rescues, I fall into the same category as the Cajun. If you produced it, you are responsible for it - for the life of the dog. You need to make sure it's going to a good home, make sure they are willing to follow a "return to breeder" clause if something happens and they can't keep the dog AND make sure those that aren't breeding quality are sold on a limited registration and encouraged to spay/neuter or be vigilant with the dog to see it never breeds.

If the person producing the pups doesn't take responsibility for the life they're creating then that's just wrong to me. It's a crying shame that breeders let some of these crappy owners get their dogs. Accidents do happen when you pick the wrong family for your puppy, but if you're a good breeder, that should be the exception, not the rule - and you should be in contact with the dog's owners for the life of the dog so that you can step in to help the dog (that you produced) find a better situation.

Are you kidding me? And how would you know who a crappy owner would or can be? You get a loving family with kids come and buy a pup, down the road dog ends up in a shelter...how the heck would you have known that?! Of course you can tell sometimes who not to sell a pup too, but like someone said above, you don't know what can happen to someone down the road to cause the dog to go to shelter. Also, people are not always who they seem. They can put on a nice show for you and let you sell them a pup. Then take it home and be the worst owner. You cannot prevent that. How can you make sure they follow the "return to breeder" clause? Are you going to put a gun to his head? You can't force them to do anything they don't want. How would you even know if he doesn't tell you anyway?

Be in contact with the new owner for the life of the pup? What if they live across country. You can call them every week and the owner can blow smoke up your you know what. New owner can tell you...oh pup is great we go running everyday, etc. Then hang up the phone and beat the pup or do bad things to it, or even gave it to a shelter already and is lying to you. How would you know? What good does that do you then? Doesn't make you a better breeder because you keep in touch for the life of the dog. Next you'll want breeders to do home inspections of the new owners! Come on now. People who buy pups are adults and are responsible for their actions.

You buy a new car and dealer says if you don't like it return it. Down the road you decide you don't like the car but sell it to someone else instead. You can't force anyone to do anything. You do the same thing with a pup. Dealer is mad, breeder is mad but there is nothing you can do about it.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:49 pm

Take some of the money from selling the pups and use if for a chip and DNA. I mean, since you are breeding to improve the breed, you don't need the cash anyway.

It astounds me that AKC judges make the sort of comments that have been made here. Wow.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:00 pm

WOW!!!

Look I want to hear from puppy buyers and if they can't keep the dog for some reason, I want to know, especially if the dog has some genetic problem because I feel in that case I have a responsibility. But to "backstop" every buyer for ever, its not possible or feasible. However, the idea that you actually "own" the dog for its life and that its just being loaned to someone else doesn't work. Does that go for ducks, hamsters, cats, mice and chinchilla as well??? If my son develops an allergy to the hamster, should I call the breeder?

I think you should think this through.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:31 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Take some of the money from selling the pups and use if for a chip and DNA. I mean, since you are breeding to improve the breed, you don't need the cash anyway.

It astounds me that AKC judges make the sort of comments that have been made here. Wow.

Are you a judge? And you judge other people. That makes you perfect. Get a life. After all you are in retail sales, right. You sell a bag of goods and that's right. I judge people for who they are and how they live their life. Nothing more nothing less. You're so right and everyone else is wrong. I guess you live in the perfect world.

mister2 · Post by **mister2** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:31 pm

Hi I am fairly new here. Actually, don't even have a dog yet, never owned one or been around one long enough to say so my entire 32yrs of life so far but I wanted a GSP so I'm in the process of looking...again. I say "again" because I was in line to pick one up in just a couple weeks but couldn't get the one I wanted so gonna look for another litter. My heart sank, especially my kids who were even more excited to get the puppy. The reason I am told is because the dog shows potential, potential that a new dog owner such as myself would not be able to harness and take to it's fullest potential. That's fine, maybe that dog is not for me anyway and I don't want to stand in it's way of being the best that it can be.

When I finally pay for my puppy and pick him up I feel the breeder's job is done. Of course if there is some sort of genetic or physical defect that should be taken care of by the breeder just like a new car dealer has to warranty their cars. Beyond that though I take on full responsibilities for the puppy's future. If the breeder does follow up with his dogs that's great because it says that they truly care about their dogs and whether the dog fit in with the family. I don't want a breeder telling me what I can or cannot do with my dog. From what I've seen, GSP's are not cheap. I was ready to drop almost $1k hard earned money on a dog, you think I want to give it away or have someone telling me what I can/cannot do with it?

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:37 am

mister2 wrote:Hi I am fairly new here. Actually, don't even have a dog yet, never owned one or been around one long enough to say so my entire 32yrs of life so far but I wanted a GSP so I'm in the process of looking...again. I say "again" because I was in line to pick one up in just a couple weeks but couldn't get the one I wanted so gonna look for another litter. My heart sank, especially my kids who were even more excited to get the puppy. The reason I am told is because the dog shows potential, potential that a new dog owner such as myself would not be able to harness and take to it's fullest potential. That's fine, maybe that dog is not for me anyway and I don't want to stand in it's way of being the best that it can be.

When I finally pay for my puppy and pick him up I feel the breeder's job is done. Of course if there is some sort of genetic or physical defect that should be taken care of by the breeder just like a new car dealer has to warranty their cars. Beyond that though I take on full responsibilities for the puppy's future. If the breeder does follow up with his dogs that's great because it says that they truly care about their dogs and whether the dog fit in with the family. I don't want a breeder telling me what I can or cannot do with my dog. From what I've seen, GSP's are not cheap. I was ready to drop almost $1k hard earned money on a dog, you think I want to give it away or have someone telling me what I can/cannot do with it?

Welcome to the board. For GSPs there's almost two strains, there's the show dogs and then there's the field dogs. While both will probably do everything a foot hunter wants, you'll rarely see a trial winning dog take a dog show prize. It does happen, but those are fairly rare. Show GSPs tend to be bigger and with a head shaped just a certain way. A trial dog just needs smell and run big. As far as taking the dog to its full potential, just keep working with him. Mine loves to learn new things, he's only limited by my ability to spend time with him. The sooner you start, the more time you can put in.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:25 am

Upwards of a grand for a shorthair is insane. Sorry.

mister2 · Post by **mister2** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:59 am

Yes I agree upwards of a grand is insane. What's insane is I've seen people ask for more than that, just for a puppy. I know what some will say, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. I lost contact with a person just because I asked how much $ per pup. As if to say if I have to ask then it's not worth it. I'm sorry I don't need to deal with that.