Trying to understand

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gittrdonebritts
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Trying to understand

Post by gittrdonebritts » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:06 pm

lately there has been a lot of arguing between the two sects of our bird dog world, the trialer's and the hunters (I'm excluding the people who do both) and I'm having a very difficult time understanding why ? There is a lot of BS going on and I'm tired of it we all love our dogs and we all do what we enjoy with our dogs weather it be trialing or hunting or both I'm tired of the arguing about Trials aren't hunting or trial dogs can't hunt or hunting dogs can't trial its all a bunch of garbage that we don't need to be concentrating on, we as a group will never agree on everything but we are all like minded people and should be more worried about other things like the groups out there trying to stop us from being able to hunt and own guns or taking a more active part in local wildlife conservation or becoming a part of a local breed rescue group,there are so many more important things to worry about than things like why trial dog (specifically AA dogs) only find so many birds in a given field, I'm venting a little but I feel like lately as a group this board has been going in the wrong direction and we all need to refocus and come back together with a more positive mind set. Just how I feel take it or leave it I guess.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by kensfishing » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:29 pm

I got in trialing as a challenge. Been bird hunting since I was eleven. Now 61. Been awhile. Love bird hunting and fishing. Did both as a guide for many years. Trialing was an extension of hunting when I wasn't on the water. Nothing more nothing less. We did so much training on wild quail it was fun, so we or I didn't trial at that time. Not many people understand the difference between a really good hunting dog and an AA, Shooting dog or a Gun Dog. Do you know what an AA dog is supposed to do? Most know or think they have really good hunting dogs. Watch some of these so called hunting shows and listen to the commentators. They are a joke. Alot of hunters think they're dogs can compete in trials. Some can some can't. You are right there is alot of bickering about how good someone's dogs are. But when you live in a place where there are more birds than people and the number of people that don't hunt, well it really doesn't take that good of a dog to find birds. In the 70's I hunted Iowa when you couldn't hardly walk without kicking up pheasants. Not any more. It takes really really good dogs on public land to even think about getting a limit. We do need to get more involved with groups to help keep what is ours. Guns and so forth. IMO rescues are a joke in alot of way. You have people who have to say it's okay for you to adopl a dog when they haven't a clue what they're doing. What makes them the expert? Because they say so. It's about money. We have to make sure the groups we support are doing it for the right reasons. I've adopted dogs, good and bad. Most of the bad were people caused. Oh well let the arrows fly. On another note. When I got into field trialing I told a pro there was a difference between good bird dogs and field trail dogs. He said there wasn't. He was so wrong. It's how we train to do one or the other.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by 4ShotB » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:42 pm

I'm new to the whole dog world as I will pick up my pup in about 10 days or so but I have to admit my jaw has dropped open at some of these threads. The way i see things is people are basically very insecure for the most part and some of them feel better unfortunately when they can put others down. Very disappointed when i saw some of that here but it ain't the dogs at fault, it's just people being people. and to be fair, it's not many of the posters here that have the "my dog is better than your dog because..." attitude, just a very few. Otherwise, this site has been very informative and helpful for the most part.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by AzDoggin » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:12 am

No doubt the dog knowledge on here is excellent, and there are lifetimes of experience with hunting dogs. You just have to own a helmet with a chinstrap to access it. :lol:

I don't give a hoot what folks do with their dogs - to me any constructive activity is better than just ignoring them in your back yard or kennel. I actually wish there was even more diversity - in addition to hunting, trialing, and testing pursuits, folks who do obedience, agility, schutzhund, french ring, herding, flyball, carting, skijoring, WHATEVER with dogs - I think the diverse training knowledge would add alot, and each sport has it's methods and skills. There are new, effective techniques developed all the time in lots of different dog venues - I have to think some of the methods would apply to our hunting dogs, but anything that varies much from traditional gets labelled as "gimmicky" and summarily dismissed.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by kninebirddog » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:18 am

I hear you...Trails are supposed to be a way to add extra time with a dog in the field PLUS be a way to show that is has the core foundations of being a good bird dog.
I have some old books and have even posted a section of how some of these trials got started or a stronger foot hold and I think my favs are about Count Gladstone and Joe Jr Gladstone is the more noted dog but Joe Jr after 2 full days of hunting and finding more birds won that deal and the second one had to deal with a little female named Lit also a gathering where the dogs were run from sun up to sun down for a couple days in some pretty tough conditions. this was back in late 1800s bets were 500 bucks back then.

Today we have many different venues to play in and all take some effort to play well in and the dog that will get out there and do it. Some like to make money fastest time some like a complete work point shoot retrieve some like competition some like more a test format some like big runners and some like close working dogs.
Doesn't matter the breed you will find someone who thinks there dog is the greatest for what they do

As for rescues I try and help where I can I know a couple good friends who are in rescue and wow the money they end up putting out themselves . I know some dogs that sure rescue got 250 dollars for but the dog required over 1000 dollars of meds because it had heartworm and needed other medical intervention. Some go through some training so that they become mannered dogs. Even just a basic check up getting them UTD on shots and microchipped spayed /neutered plus the food they are fed before they find that new home that adoption fee barely covers the expenses much less what the rescue person didn't even keep track of like gas to rescue and transport etc.

My dogs love to get out and get on birds and they seem just as happy to get out no matter when and where and what kind of bird trials guiding and when I get the chance for wild birds Bottom line I enjoy my dogs and someone may suggest new things to try but I along with many others resent when someone tells me what I do is beneath them and substandard when I put just as much time into my dogs training to be the dog I enjoy as they do
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by big steve46 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:26 am

I have been told by a highly respected man in AF horseback trialing that NSTRA is ok, but it's not a REAL trial. So, to me, the difference between types of trialing seem to be mainly accentuated by the horseback people. I have never heard a NSTRA trialer say horseback trialing is not real trialing.

New people need not be confused. They need to investigate the different types, take everyone with a grain of salt, and make up their own mind. :)
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by JKP » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:42 am

When it comes right down to it...we all deserve the kind of dog we want...c'aint nobody tell me what I SHOULD want or have to have...goes for everybody. Some folks get a thrill out of finding their dog on point and others want to see their dog point...some folks are uncomfortable with big running dogs and for others that's just right. Some thrill and get the shivers to a high tail and head crank...for others it doesn't do a thing. I think we have to remember we have far greater issues than convincing the other guy in the room that's paying his dues, supporting DU, Phex Forever, Cabelas, LC Supply, etc that he's somehow got the wrong dog or a lesser dog. Our enemy is the decline in hunting..lack of young people in the shooting sports and a total lack of game management priorities in much of this country. Take your frustrations out there...and do some real good.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by Redfishkilla » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:44 am

I just finished a book written in the 60's where in the opening paragraph the guy said he didn't think trial dogs made good hunters. I guess the point is that this argument has been going on since the start of field trials. The only thought I can add to this never ending issue is that whatever you train a dog to do and practice it, whether it is trials or hunting, that's what the dog is going to get good at.

If this post is referring to Birddogs post, which I know it is, then I'll state one more thing. If he knew as much as he thinks he knows, he would know that the reason a field trial dog didn't find lots of birds on the plantation is that is not where or how he was trained and practiced to hunt. Just like the plantation dog probably wouldn't find as many birds in the AA field trial. However the dog is trained and practiced is what they'll be good at, it's that easy in my mind. That dude is a troll, with his post he shows he doesn't quite get bird dogs IMO. Just like a football player, could Terrel Owens play forward on a basketball team, yeah but he's been trained and practiced at football, that's why he's better at football. Duh.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:47 am

by JKP » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:42 am

When it comes right down to it...we all deserve the kind of dog we want...c'aint nobody tell me what I SHOULD want or have to have...goes for everybody. Some folks get a thrill out of finding their dog on point and others want to see their dog point...some folks are uncomfortable with big running dogs and for others that's just right. Some thrill and get the shivers to a high tail and head crank...for others it doesn't do a thing. I think we have to remember we have far greater issues than convincing the other guy in the room that's paying his dues, supporting DU, Phex Forever, Cabelas, LC Supply, etc that he's somehow got the wrong dog or a lesser dog. Our enemy is the decline in hunting..lack of young people in the shooting sports and a total lack of game management priorities in much of this country. Take your frustrations out there...and do some real good.
Bravo

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by gsp-fan » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:01 am

IMO rescues are a joke in alot of way. You have people who have to say it's okay for you to adopl a dog when they haven't a clue what they're doing. What makes them the expert? Because they say so. It's about money.

In this statement I have to assume you do not know the workings of rescue. For those that are breed specific they know the breed inside & out and have a deep love for that breed. They are owners themselves of the breed. They are the people spending their own money when rescue has none to save a dog, driving in the middle of the night to save a dog before it is put down because someone be it a pet home,hunter, breeder did not want to deal with the dog(s) any longer. They are the ones having to make a hard decision if the dog is adoptable or needs to be put down (they are there holding that dog as it goes) because a owner could not after dumping it at a shelter or on the streets. They are the group of unselfish people that if God forbid something happens to you and no one wants your dogs they step up and find them loving homes. I will now step off of my soap box.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by AzDoggin » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:07 am

Redfishkilla wrote: ...this argument has been going on since the start of field trials.
Longer than that. I heard Trog and Ugh had the same argument in the cave over whose wolf hybrid could catch more prehistoric birds (they didn't much care about pointing back then). :lol:

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by gittrdonebritts » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:13 am

JKP wrote:When it comes right down to it...we all deserve the kind of dog we want...c'aint nobody tell me what I SHOULD want or have to have...goes for everybody. Some folks get a thrill out of finding their dog on point and others want to see their dog point...some folks are uncomfortable with big running dogs and for others that's just right. Some thrill and get the shivers to a high tail and head crank...for others it doesn't do a thing. I think we have to remember we have far greater issues than convincing the other guy in the room that's paying his dues, supporting DU, Phex Forever, Cabelas, LC Supply, etc that he's somehow got the wrong dog or a lesser dog. Our enemy is the decline in hunting..lack of young people in the shooting sports and a total lack of game management priorities in much of this country. Take your frustrations out there...and do some real good.
This is exactly what i was getting at with my post, I'm not directing this at Birddogz or any other member there is too much arguing about stupid crap that doesn't belong here no one can tell anyone that there dog isn't good or that there using the wrong gun or wearing the wrong coat or boots or feeding the wrong feed we all make our own choices and should be coming together and focusing on promoting our wonderful sport and getting more people involved !

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:33 am

Maybe we just need to do away with the word trial since it seems to have taken on a meaning that was never meant to be. Lets just go back to what 'trials" are and call them competitions. Trials only meant you were trying to accomplish a set goal. Competitions were just that, two or more competing, probably at a set goal but maybe just against each other.

I think competition is good and if you enjoy it then make up some rules or goals and have at it. There can be as many different ones as you can dream up and it only takes two to compete, though more can be even greater fun.

Stop and think of the possibilities and goals you are trying to reach.

Horse pulling-strongest horse
Horse racing. fastest horse
Car racing- fastest car but only the cars that are made alike.
Tractor pulling- pulling a given weight the furthest
Lawn Mower racing- Which can get to a set point the fastest.
And a thousand more that can be listed.

And what do they prove-
Horse pulling- strongest but not best
Horse racing- fastest but not best
Car racing- fastest but not best
Tractor pulling- most powerful but not best
Lawn mower racing- fastest but not best

Don't think we would get any argument at all on any of these

So why do we continue this argument that the best trial dog is the best dog and is the best in every aspect. Or the hunting dog is a better dog in every aspect of dogdom. We all know it isn't so. Even with in the trial dogs they have had to make classes so different dogs with different capabilities can compete in the game with a goal in mind that they can reach. And some are trying desperately to classify their dogs as grouse dogs or quail dogs or some other specialty instead of just bird dogs. The reason we make these classifications is that we know, right or wrong, that the animals we are bragging on don't do everything real well so we make a class for their abilities that exclude the things they don't or can't do well and then say we have the best dog. I still like my dogs well enough that I call them bird dogs and feel they can do most things well if given the opportunity.

Is it time we start admitting we are doing what we like to do and then we try to buy or breed the best dogs to do what we enjoy. And none of that would be necessary if we could breed the best dog in the world that could do everything. Dogs like every other animal do well what we have bred them to do and don't very often do well in categories they have not been bred for. And none of them are the best or even better than the others because they perform well in what we want them to. Draft horses do not do well on the race track and vice versa. The fastest lawn mower does not mow lawns better than others and probably not as good. And the best trial dog does not hunt better than the best hunting dog and vice versa. We all admit this every time we open our mouths about which dogs we should breed to or which dogs have the greatest range, or which dogs find the most birds. The only thing your dog is real good at hopefully, is making you happy and if it does it is the best dog for you. But the best dog, no way.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:38 am

Ezzy,
my mower would do circles around yours

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:45 am

Chukar12 wrote:Ezzy,
my mower would do circles around yours
Bring it on Bigboy :roll:
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by slistoe » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:52 am

Chukar12 wrote:Ezzy,
my mower would do circles around yours
Who on God's green earth would want mower circles in their lawn. Your mower is useless!

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by AzDoggin » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:54 am

slistoe wrote:
Chukar12 wrote:Ezzy,
my mower would do circles around yours
Who on God's green earth would want mower circles in their lawn. Your mower is useless!
Come on, man. Everybody knows that's how you show the aliens where to land the hovercraft. :roll:

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:55 am

OH YEAH!!!!!
Well that shows what you know your mower would seize up on our Norther California sod...

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:56 am

you probably send your grass to a professional landscaper...

EZZY lock this

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by Ditch__Parrot » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:57 am

gittrdonebritts wrote:lately there has been a lot of arguing between the two sects of our bird dog world, the trialer's and the hunters (I'm excluding the people who do both) and I'm having a very difficult time understanding why ? There is a lot of BS going on and I'm tired of it we all love our dogs and we all do what we enjoy with our dogs weather it be trialing or hunting or both I'm tired of the arguing about Trials aren't hunting or trial dogs can't hunt or hunting dogs can't trial its all a bunch of garbage that we don't need to be concentrating on, we as a group will never agree on everything but we are all like minded people and should be more worried about other things like the groups out there trying to stop us from being able to hunt and own guns or taking a more active part in local wildlife conservation or becoming a part of a local breed rescue group,there are so many more important things to worry about than things like why trial dog (specifically AA dogs) only find so many birds in a given field, I'm venting a little but I feel like lately as a group this board has been going in the wrong direction and we all need to refocus and come back together with a more positive mind set. Just how I feel take it or leave it I guess.

Well said and I agree. I do think if you go back and look at most of the threads stirring up this hunter vs trialer controversy the last few months (or maybe it's been closer to a year now) you might find a common denominator to them.

Of course that said my dogs are the best and I don't carry what anybody has to say about that. :lol: :mrgreen:
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by GUNDOGS » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:24 pm

Chukar12 wrote:you probably send your grass to a professional landscaper...

EZZY lock this
Im seriously dying of laughter here , you guys are funny were you all trained by a professional comedian :lol: :lol: !!...ruth
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by Ruffshooter » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:02 pm

Some folks get off on making people defend there opinion, dogs, families, sports and oh yeah Mowers I bet those parties sit back and say look at those dopes, I can make them argue about anything. Must Admit I get caught up in the stupidity. :roll:

You got no mower worth having, mine is so tuff I use it to cut the trails for skidders. :wink:
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by gunner » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:22 pm

Quote: "I think competition is good and if you enjoy it then make up some rules or goals and have at it."

The standard that the dogs running in the National Championship run under.

The Amesian Standard
The dog under consideration must have and display great bird sense. He must show perfect work on both coveys and singles. He must be able quickly to determine between foot and body scent. He must use his brains, eyes, and nose to the fullest advantage and hunt the likely places on the course. He must possess speed, range, style, character, courage, and stamina—and good manners, always. He must hunt the birds, and not the handler hunt the dog. No line or path runner is acceptable. He must be well broken, and the better his manners the more clearly he proves his sound training. Should he lose a little in class, as expressed in extreme speed and range, he can make up for this, under fair judgment, in a single piece of superior bird work, or in sustained demonstration of general behavior. He must be bold, snappy, and spirited. His range must be to the front or to either side, but never behind. He must be regularly and habitually pleasingly governable (tractable) and must know when to turn and keeps his handler’s course in view, and at all times keep uppermost in his mind the finding and pointing of birds for his handler.


This is the same kind of dog I like to bird hunt.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by CowboyBirdDogs » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:26 pm

Personally, I think some of it comes down to the fact that some people prefer one style of dog while others prefer something completely different, yet one side gets to have a FC on their pedigree while the others don't, so they feel that their dog and their dogs style is inferior to the others (and I have never once trialed in my life). I have a female GSP that can't be AKC registered, which is frustrating cause she is a great dog and yet no one will associate her as a "3G Champion AA over yada yada", but, she's a great dog to me so that's all that matters. And then there are alternative competitions (BDC) for those that have dogs that aren't registered etc. And those competitions tend to get degraded by FTers. Well all have a common love/obsession and that's what should be remembered cause that is what matters. My .02.....

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by AzDoggin » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:10 pm

gunner wrote:Quote: "I think competition is good and if you enjoy it then make up some rules or goals and have at it."

The standard that the dogs running in the National Championship run under.

The Amesian Standard
The dog under consideration must have and display great bird sense. He must show perfect work on both coveys and singles. He must be able quickly to determine between foot and body scent. He must use his brains, eyes, and nose to the fullest advantage and hunt the likely places on the course. He must possess speed, range, style, character, courage, and stamina—and good manners, always. He must hunt the birds, and not the handler hunt the dog. No line or path runner is acceptable. He must be well broken, and the better his manners the more clearly he proves his sound training. Should he lose a little in class, as expressed in extreme speed and range, he can make up for this, under fair judgment, in a single piece of superior bird work, or in sustained demonstration of general behavior. He must be bold, snappy, and spirited. His range must be to the front or to either side, but never behind. He must be regularly and habitually pleasingly governable (tractable) and must know when to turn and keeps his handler’s course in view, and at all times keep uppermost in his mind the finding and pointing of birds for his handler.


This is the same kind of dog I like to bird hunt.
Hunt with. Trial with. Test with. Hang in the yard with. Hang in the house during a blizzard with. Go fishing with. Hike with. Camp with. And so on with. That's a special animal described right there.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by birddogger » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:48 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
by JKP » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:42 am

When it comes right down to it...we all deserve the kind of dog we want...c'aint nobody tell me what I SHOULD want or have to have...goes for everybody. Some folks get a thrill out of finding their dog on point and others want to see their dog point...some folks are uncomfortable with big running dogs and for others that's just right. Some thrill and get the shivers to a high tail and head crank...for others it doesn't do a thing. I think we have to remember we have far greater issues than convincing the other guy in the room that's paying his dues, supporting DU, Phex Forever, Cabelas, LC Supply, etc that he's somehow got the wrong dog or a lesser dog. Our enemy is the decline in hunting..lack of young people in the shooting sports and a total lack of game management priorities in much of this country. Take your frustrations out there...and do some real good.
Bravo
+1, I agree 100 percent. Good thread gitterdone.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:56 pm

AzDoggin wrote:
gunner wrote:Quote: "I think competition is good and if you enjoy it then make up some rules or goals and have at it."

The standard that the dogs running in the National Championship run under.

The Amesian Standard
The dog under consideration must have and display great bird sense. He must show perfect work on both coveys and singles. He must be able quickly to determine between foot and body scent. He must use his brains, eyes, and nose to the fullest advantage and hunt the likely places on the course. He must possess speed, range, style, character, courage, and stamina—and good manners, always. He must hunt the birds, and not the handler hunt the dog. No line or path runner is acceptable. He must be well broken, and the better his manners the more clearly he proves his sound training. Should he lose a little in class, as expressed in extreme speed and range, he can make up for this, under fair judgment, in a single piece of superior bird work, or in sustained demonstration of general behavior. He must be bold, snappy, and spirited. His range must be to the front or to either side, but never behind. He must be regularly and habitually pleasingly governable (tractable) and must know when to turn and keeps his handler’s course in view, and at all times keep uppermost in his mind the finding and pointing of birds for his handler.


This is the same kind of dog I like to bird hunt.
Hunt with. Trial with. Test with. Hang in the yard with. Hang in the house during a blizzard with. Go fishing with. Hike with. Camp with. And so on with. That's a special animal described right there.
The problem is not what you want to do with that kind of dog but rather if that kind of dog wants to do those things with you. Some do and many don't!
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Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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gittrdonebritts
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by gittrdonebritts » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:11 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
AzDoggin wrote:
gunner wrote:Quote: "I think competition is good and if you enjoy it then make up some rules or goals and have at it."

The standard that the dogs running in the National Championship run under.

The Amesian Standard
The dog under consideration must have and display great bird sense. He must show perfect work on both coveys and singles. He must be able quickly to determine between foot and body scent. He must use his brains, eyes, and nose to the fullest advantage and hunt the likely places on the course. He must possess speed, range, style, character, courage, and stamina—and good manners, always. He must hunt the birds, and not the handler hunt the dog. No line or path runner is acceptable. He must be well broken, and the better his manners the more clearly he proves his sound training. Should he lose a little in class, as expressed in extreme speed and range, he can make up for this, under fair judgment, in a single piece of superior bird work, or in sustained demonstration of general behavior. He must be bold, snappy, and spirited. His range must be to the front or to either side, but never behind. He must be regularly and habitually pleasingly governable (tractable) and must know when to turn and keeps his handler’s course in view, and at all times keep uppermost in his mind the finding and pointing of birds for his handler.


This is the same kind of dog I like to bird hunt.
Hunt with. Trial with. Test with. Hang in the yard with. Hang in the house during a blizzard with. Go fishing with. Hike with. Camp with. And so on with. That's a special animal described right there.
The problem is not what you want to do with that kind of dog but rather if that kind of dog wants to do those things with you. Some do and many don't!
Ezzy just cause your dogs only want to hunt for me doesn't mean everyone's dogs are like that hahaha :lol: just kidding :lol:

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by slistoe » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:09 pm

Ezzy, did you forget to read this part? "and must know when to turn and keeps his handler’s course in view, and at all times keep uppermost in his mind the finding and pointing of birds for his handler."

A dog that doesn't want to do all those things with you is not "that kind of dog".

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:39 pm

slistoe wrote:Ezzy, did you forget to read this part? "and must know when to turn and keeps his handler’s course in view, and at all times keep uppermost in his mind the finding and pointing of birds for his handler."

A dog that doesn't want to do all those things with you is not "that kind of dog".
Yep sure did, and that kind of dog would be great at those kind of activities as we all know but it doesn't say the dog would be the kind you would want to fish with, camp with, or huddle in the house with for a week or two till the weather gets nice. We spend so much time talking how are dogs are so active and need lots of exercise and many of those things just don't fit that bill. It might just be prudent to say we like our dogs and they do some things real well but not everything. Some other breeds are better than ours at some activities. Just the way it is due to our breeding what we want in our dogs.

Ezzy
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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Ron R
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by Ron R » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:41 am

gunner wrote: No line or path runner is acceptable
That's a joke.
gunner wrote:He must hunt the birds, and not the handler hunt the dog
And that's a joke.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2786

Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll enjoy it a second time.

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3Britts
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by 3Britts » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:41 am

Now for my two cents worth. I have hunted most of my life, (can't count those years that I couldn't carry a gun) and would categorize myself as such. I do, when I have the time and funds available, trial and show my dogs. Here is what I have discovered in the past several years. Hunting is what the dogs were meant to do. Trials are what the owners were meant to do. When you take a dog hunting, it finds the birds. This is what makes my dog's tails stand up. When I take my dogs to a trial and they find birds, they think they are hunting. When they beat the other dogs, I get to go sit with the other owner/handlers and do a little bragging. Hunting for the dogs, trialing for me. :D

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by JWP58 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:53 am

I'm new to the upland hunting/bird dog world so i guess i really dont have a dog in this fight. Honestly, WHO cares. If you do trials, awesome! If you just hunt with your dogs, thats great too!

In my opinion this sport is in decline, which i think we can all agree is NOT a good thing. Fighting amongst the people in the sport cant be a good/productive thing either.

I dont care if you own a grand champion trial dog or a dog that gets to hunt all of twice a year.....if you love your dogs and have fun in the field it doesnt matter.
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Re: Trying to understand

Post by RoostersMom » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:17 am

Interesting post. I'm a dog lover, I doubt I would have gotten into bird hunting like I did if it weren't for the dogs. I do some hunt tests, but don't have big running dogs, so I don't do field trials. I've entered one NSTRA event. I'd like to think that most folks are in this for the dogs or for the birds. And I agree wholeheartedly that we need to stick together. The conservation community as a whole looses a lot of arguments and court battles because we are such an independent group and have a hard time working together.

The loss (or lack) of our youth hunters is a huge problem in the US - with only one state in the US who is replacing a "retiring" hunter with a new hunter (Missouri). ANYTHING we can do to encourage new youth who wouldn't have a chance to hunt to get out in the field is something we should all think about doing. An easy way to do that is to volunteer with another group of individuals who already have that as a goal. We all have so much in common, I think we can tackle some of these bigger problems if we can work together.

As for the Ezzy and Chukar 12, I can provide the grounds for your mower competition. My husband and I will be so excited to be able to witness this contest, he'd likely sit on the porch with a beer and cheer on both of you! You'll need to go in braces and we'll likely need to have a weekly trial for ...... say about 2 months, April - May. With the Finals being in June. Just bring your own gas.

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Re: Trying to understand

Post by birddogger » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:22 pm

RoostersMom wrote:Interesting post. I'm a dog lover, I doubt I would have gotten into bird hunting like I did if it weren't for the dogs. I do some hunt tests, but don't have big running dogs, so I don't do field trials. I've entered one NSTRA event. I'd like to think that most folks are in this for the dogs or for the birds. And I agree wholeheartedly that we need to stick together. The conservation community as a whole looses a lot of arguments and court battles because we are such an independent group and have a hard time working together.

The loss (or lack) of our youth hunters is a huge problem in the US - with only one state in the US who is replacing a "retiring" hunter with a new hunter (Missouri). ANYTHING we can do to encourage new youth who wouldn't have a chance to hunt to get out in the field is something we should all think about doing. An easy way to do that is to volunteer with another group of individuals who already have that as a goal. We all have so much in common, I think we can tackle some of these bigger problems if we can work together.

As for the Ezzy and Chukar 12, I can provide the grounds for your mower competition. My husband and I will be so excited to be able to witness this contest, he'd likely sit on the porch with a beer and cheer on both of you! You'll need to go in braces and we'll likely need to have a weekly trial for ...... say about 2 months, April - May. With the Finals being in June. Just bring your own gas.
Good post, we need to stick together or we will lose it all.

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

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