A Bit Confused?!

[Onk]

Since this is going to be our first hunting/indoor family pet I am getting a bit confused from differant opions and post. I've read or been told that you don't want to teach your hunting dog all the house dog things ( sit, stay, lay,...) and that talking or playing with them should be kept to a minimum. I understand the little/no verbal communication while you have them in the field exploring as a pup, but what can it hurt teaching a hunting dog house dog manners and letting that hunting dog be a partner not only in the field, but the the rest of the year also? Thanks for the help! Onk

[Redfishkilla]

IMO, I think teaching them things is really good for them. It helps them learn how to learn (does that make sense). The only thing I don't teach is "sit". They can sit when you start teaching them to whoa, it's not a big deal just annoying. Enjoy your pup, I hope the days of not playing with a dog just because it's a bird dog and you heard that somewhere are over. Make sure they know you're in charge....that helps too.

[ezzy333]

My advice is to teach anything you want and as much as possible except to save you the possibility of later problems just dont teach sit. Just don't get cught up in all of the hype about the dos and don'ts of working with a bird dog puppy. The easiest way to explain it is the pup is just a pup till it is getting near a year old and the is when it becomes a bird dog pup. Teach what you want and take the pup to the field and let it explore once or twice a week and you should be in great shape and you won't be "confused'.

Ezzy

[rkappes]

It won't hurt anything. We include our dog in everything we do (fishing, golfing, vacations, etc...) she's always with us. We've also taught her sit, stay, lay and it hasn't effected her in the field at all, not even with whoa training. We have formal training sessions with her and we also give her time to just be a dog. Not sure about your situation but the majority of the time spent with a dog is going to be a companionship, unless you have endless $$$ and time to hunt. Have fun and enjoy your pup. Time flies and we don't get nearly enough years with them.

[Chukar12]

I do the same as the previous posters...let the dogs enjoy the family. The sit rule, in case it hasn't been explained is so that the dog doesn't default to that behavior when it is put under pressure to be still; i.e., a dog on point that sits down. A few other hints are to avoid free for-alls on beds and furniture, being invited and in control rarely causes a problem, but in some ( and note it isn't in every case) a dog takes these liberties and position in the pack if you will, as an invitation to challenge other pieces of training.

If it is truly a house dog there are things to do that transfer to the field as well. Never let the dog bolt through doors first or jump in the car without being invited. I also stole a thought from George Hickox for my dog around the family, I use "utility commands" and "performance commands." In example, wife, kids, nieces and nephews use "stay" not whoa or whoop, I don't trust them to be consistent so I don't tell them my secret dog words, I leave them with their own more liberal vocabulary and interpretation therof. These restrictions and behaviors are similar to what you will ask later in formal training and they make it easier. In addition, it just makes them better citizens at home.

[Greg Jennings]

About "sit"...

It's been brought up 100 times. Some people say "go ahead, I've never had a problem". Some people say "If you teach it too much before the dog is standing birds, they may sit to escape pressure".

Suggest searching the archives. Pay more attention to the people that do it for a living as they see more dogs, but consider the context of what they're doing and what you want to do with the dog.

Greg J.

[Nhuskr]

IMO, I think teaching them things is really good for them. It helps them learn how to learn (does that make sense). The only thing I don't teach is "sit". They can sit when you start teaching them to whoa, it's not a big deal just annoying. Enjoy your pup, I hope the days of not playing with a dog just because it's a bird dog and you heard that somewhere are over. Make sure they know you're in charge....that helps too.

I don't understand this. If dogs are so place oriented, how does teaching them to sit in the house transfer so readily out to the field during whoa training? I've puzzled on this for several years, ever since my husband got his bird dog. I/we taught Cadee to sit in the house, and he never had issues with her in the field during whoa training. Not trying to be argumentative, it just seems completely counter-intuitive to me - dogs are place oriented, you must re-train each step in a new place so the dog gets "it" (whatever "it" is), except for the sit command. I've not trained a bird-dog yet, so maybe we just got lucky with Cadee; I'll see how it goes with my pup when I get him.

Cheryl

[Chukar12]

I think Greg answered it best...the context and use of the dog is the essence. You probably won't see many dogs at Ames being commanded to sit and wait for the whistle to blow. However, would it create a problem? It was the first thing I taught my first pointing dog a brittany female, and if she was confused on birds, standing for awhile, or felt pressure to break she sat. That may be coincideence. The question is how much does it really matter? Only the individual can answer that as it does seem much easier to control a dog that you can tell to put his or her rear on the ground.

[jarbo03]

I taught my brit to sit, stay, heel, come, lay, mark, and everything else needed to also be a good waterfowl dog, the same as i did my lab. And yes they both also shook with both paws and napped on the couch with me and tried stealing my pillows at night. I see no problems with it as long as your dog is disciplined. I could say one word and they would get down and go to their bed, they still knew i was the boss. I never saw training for waterfowl hunting transfer over to upland and vice versa. They both knew how to hunt, all i did was make them well disciplined and took them hunting a lot, the rest they did theirselves.

[Redfishkilla]

"dogs are place oriented"

Agreed. I would teach sit in the exact same place I teach whoa. And I didn't say it was a big deal but a dog that has heard sit 1000x's will "default" to that when they don't really know what you want, like when first teaching whoa. Just my opinion. Dogs and trainers are as different as Zebra stripes.

[kninebirddog]

The reason for not teaching sit is if you have a dog specially ones that are more eager to please they are more inclined when they get nervous or confused will resort to trying to appease which that results in submissive positioning to a dogs way of being or if a dog gets bored waiting. So then the owner gets frustrated and dog becomes more tentative with an upset handler
so best way to avoid it just don't teach it till the bird work is done.

As for it sitting to save a dogs life which there are some that give this reason I would say HERE would be the most important to get a dog turned and away from danger and Whoa to get them stopped but no matter some dogs that get in gear are going to blow you off no matter the command once they have been able to commit to the deed

[deseeker]

I think the main reason they are telling you not to teach sit is they are trying to save you from a possible future problem down the road IF you play dog games. From judging hunt test I have seen younger dogs sit while on point---This usually happens when the handler can't find the pointed bird in heavy cover and it is talking a long time. The dog in the past at home has been put at sit and made to wait. Now in the field it is waiting, waiting, waiting, so it sits on point. I have a very hard time as a judge to give a dog a good score in pointing when it sits. In field trial if your dog sits on point, you have to pick it up. In shoot to retreive you don't get good scores if your dog sits. The people telling you no sit are just trying to save you possible problems down the road if you are going to play dog games. Just work on stay instead of sit(making the pup stand instead of sit) if you are going to play dog games.
Havingthe dog inside with you is a great time to work on commands, retrieving the dummy or ball, come, kennel, etc. You have commercials during your favorite tv show--every commercial work in a couple comes, or kennels, or fetches. You can get close to your dog and get alot of basic commands done at the same time. Good luck

PS-- Before britts, I used to have Springers(one of the major commands is sit), so when I got my first britt, I taught it to sit :roll: ---I lucked out and it didn't carry over to his pointing

[DougB]

Chances are, your dog will be working as a pet more often than as a hunting partner. Teaching the dog some manners makes it much more appealing in the house and around strangers. Most manners can be taught as games, using rewards so there isn't too much stress on the pup.

[RayGubernat]

You are the trainer...the dog is the student. If "you' includes the rest of the family, then they too are trainers...like it or not.

A dog will learn from you whether you are intending to teach it or not. It will learn by observing, by testing, by exploring. It will learn while you are playing with it and while you are actively schooling it. It will learn when it is sitting in its kennel(indoors or out).

In short...always be conscious that your dog is picking up on your physical cues and those of the rest of your family. What you allow the dog to do...you teach it to do.

I think play with a youngster, even roughhousing, is a fantastic way for you to bond with the dog . This way, "you" are where the fun and the action is at and most dogs want to be there.

Play also has limits and has a time and a place, and when those limits are imposed, the pup is learning about things like good canine citizen type behavior. In a family setting, that is an absolute must have.

RayG