Ethics of killing a hen

[prairiefirepointers]

This came up on another forum. I replied, and the thread is ongoing. I wanted to borrow it for discussion here on GDF.
I figured since this forum is lightyears more advanced and established, and the masses of members ought to provide some interesting and decisive feedback.

KILLING OF A HEN AFIELD... What is your postition on it? Have you ever done it? And why?

I have killed a hen just this year, and I did it somewhat regretably on purpose. I had a young dog who had honored several other dogs' points and had helped pin down and point with other dogs, but had never had his "Own" wild bird point. The youngster was working a bird and I noticed him to be extremely birdy.. he's a pretty honest dog for his youth, so I was intently watching him. He finally locked up rock solid on point. I was excited... I walked up and he didn't hardly even shift his eyes at me. I thought to myself "I sure hope this is a quail or a rooster, cause its going to die whatever it is" Sure enough, I flushed a Hen.. I shot it and let the pup retrieve it. I then dropped it behind us after the "Teaching Moment" was over.

IMO that is a "once in a lifetime teaching moment".. Not to be repeated, but necessary in the instance it happened.

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

Jeff,

I've done it for the same reason as you. I see nothing wrong with it and know it happens. If you were to do it every week I'd think it to be wrong but in this case you did more right than wrong. I however field dress them and est the versus leave them lay.

[Redfishkilla]

I shoot and miss on purpose, then praise.....gets em used to the real thing....

[topher40]

why didnt you just ask everyone if they have ever beat their wife, or cheated the IRS, or.......? i sure as heck am not going to air all my skeletons on the internet! Cant say i disagree with your train of thought though

[prairiefirepointers]

BBSD,

Thanks. That is what I learned from my "mentor" starting out training them youngsters. Right, wrong, or indifferent.

I must go change a poopy diaper now.. Not mine.. I have the Daughter today.

Jess

[topher40]

Jess-
I will trade you today, I have 3 sick kids with the stomach flu, when it rains it pours.........out both ends

[bowhunter1221975]

well for the sake of the forum i cant say i see any thing wrong with mistakeing a hen for a rooster with a young dog .
not saying i have ever but (a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush)

[topher40]

Rich-
I have seen you shoot and HIGHLY doubt you could hit a rooster let alone a hen!

[Birddogz]

I have never done it for that reason, but I have no trouble with you doing that if you only do it once for that dog. I have killed hens in ND. I was hunting Huns and Sharpies in September, and some Hun sized phez got up on a very good point by my DD. I thought they were Huns. I felt sick about it, but it was an honest mistake.

[bowhunter1221975]

Rich-
I have seen you shoot and HIGHLY doubt you could hit a rooster let alone a hen!

hey now chris thats not nice true but not nice

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

ONce I shot a sweet double over my old dog josie only for the second one I shot was a hen. I have on idea what I saw to make me think it was a rooster but it ate the same!! That is the only time I have done it by mistake!!

[birdshot]

i would not kill a hen regardless of how good a job my young pup has done. by "rewarding" the dog, a hen was removed along w/ possibility of 3 roosters next year from this hen and several more from the next generation of hens. I have no problem with training on hens and saluting them as they flush. I am sure you could check my figures on pheasant forever. i am just basing numbers on size of clutch i see in the spring.

[deseeker]

Along time ago Nebraska allowed shooting 1 hen aday on the weekends after the first of the year. The Game And Parks only did it a couple of years before they decided it was cutting deeply into their future breeding stock. I killed the hen a day on the week ends back then. Now, If I need to kill a hen for a young dog, I go to a shooting preserve, pay my money, and do it there. Or I buy a rooster for training out of season, band it , and do it legal. In eastern Nebraska there aren't alot of pheasants this year, we need all the wild hens for next years birds!!!!

[Ron R]

I personally would never purposely shoot a hen for the sake of training or any other reason for that matter. There was one time where I shot a nice double.....one quail and one meadowlark .

[ezzy333]

Probably most of us has shot a hen by mistake and that says nothing about ethics. The only way you can connect the two and that would be doing it on purpose for whatever reason. And the result would be ethical if it was legal and unethical if it was illegal. I don't think you can justify killing a hen for any reason when you know it is illegal. The ethics part of the equation comes not from the killing but from anyone purposedly doing something they know is wrong.

Ezzy

[quailrunner]

Not a good thing in my book. You should pay the fine for shooting the Hen, and a fine for WANTON WASTE. You should also apologize to everyone that has read this post for making them an accomplice to your illegal poaching. Now I have to call your game and fish department to collect my reward. I'll be charging you for the Long distance call!! You can PM me your credit card number at your earliest convenience.
Thanks for posting. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[prairiefirepointers]

Not a good thing in my book. You should pay the fine for shooting the Hen, and a fine for WANTON WASTE. You should also apologize to everyone that has read this post for making them an accomplice to your illegal poaching. Now I have to call your game and fish department to collect my reward. I'll be charging you for the Long distance call!! You can PM me your credit card number at your earliest convenience.
Thanks for posting. :roll: :roll: :roll:

I agree that its not a good thing either. I never condoned or tried in anyway to promote the act? What's the reason for getting so personal and uptight? Breath fella... I'll whip out my credit card in person and hand it over if you think you're bad enuf to walk away with it.

Ezzy, I realize what you mean about the ethics part. I agree. I didn't name the thread, I simply borrowed it from another forum where people were talking about instances where a hen had been shot during a hunt for whatever reason. I knew people in their vast experiences afield and such would add their experiences.

I do not want someone turning the thread south, by posting flamitory personal threats. I didn't think that was going to happen or I wouldn't have even posted it here.

For that, I appologize to all.

[prairiefirepointers]

Rich-
I have seen you shoot and HIGHLY doubt you could hit a rooster let alone a hen!

Rich, if you need some hens, don't let Chris pull your leg. I've seen his freezer and it is full of them. :roll:

Rich, Chris, Shawn,

Better prepare your credit cards. :roll:

[tommyboy72]

I have never intentionally shot hens over pups but 3 times last year I took wounded hens out of the field that my dogs found pointed and then promptly grabbed and fetched to me. What are the opinions of the uptights on that? A hen in the bag is a hen in the bag right, or is it? Wanton waste is wanton waste, or is it? Leaving an animal in the field to suffer and then eventually die because it is a hen instead of rooster is wrong no matter who you are or are some of you that uptight? I train on wild birds year round no matter what time of year it is as well. Is that wrong too or should I go out and waste several hundred dollars that I can ill afford on pen raised birds when I can go train on a private 15,000 acre ranch 5 miles from my house for free year round? Some of you guys need to relax.

[ezzy333]

I have never intentionally shot hens over pups but 3 times last year I took wounded hens out of the field that my dogs found pointed and then promptly grabbed and fetched to me. What are the opinions of the uptights on that? A hen in the bag is a hen in the bag right, or is it? Wanton waste is wanton waste, or is it? Leaving an animal in the field to suffer and then eventually die because it is a hen instead of rooster is wrong no matter who you are or are some of you that uptight? I train on wild birds year round no matter what time of year it is as well. Is that wrong too or should I go out and waste several hundred dollars that I can ill afford on pen raised birds when I can go train on a private 15,000 acre ranch 5 miles from my house for free year round? Some of you guys need to relax.

I don't see a need anyone to relax their ethics to accomodate what some one else thinks. I most cases there is a right and a wrong. But there are always a few gray areas that come up. Sometimes I find what is legal isn't always what I think is right. But till the laws are changed we have to live by them. And the people who believe that should be encouraged and not asked to relax.

Or do I mis-read what you are saying.

Ezzy

[Truthseeker]

i am no saint myself but to shoot a hen on purpose and then leave it lay just aint right in my book. And i dont have any idea how that relates to training on wild birds

[prairiefirepointers]

i am no saint myself but to shoot a hen on purpose and then leave it lay just aint right in my book. And i dont have any idea how that relates to training on wild birds

I know you're going to laugh, but the law states that in the event a Hen is harvested, it must be left behind. As far as how it relates to training a pup on wild birds, IMO it makes a difference that the first wild bird the pup ever works, pins and points on his own should be killed. On the bum luck that it's a Hen, well I made an exception.

I totally honor anyone who "honestly and wholeheartedly" truly differs in opinion.

EZZY, as far as Tboy is concerned, I can't speak for him, but i don't think he was insinuating becoming lax on your hunting ethics, I think he meant to just chill out a little overall.

Sometimes I find what is legal isn't always what I think is right. But till the laws are changed we have to live by them.

I agree totally, especially in the situation I described. However, if everyone did it with the same excuse, I realize the larger scope of the problem..

I don't have tunnel vision. I see both sides. I never said what I did was accepted practice or legal. Its a risk I took. I know you don't expect me to force it on you. I would never do that. I appreciate our abilities to respectfully "agree to disagree". Thank you.

[Birddogz]

This is so silly. How many of you hunt for a group limit? I do, and won't lie. 4 guys, we hunt until there are 12 dead roosters. Is it right under the law? No. I have never hunted with anyone who hunted differently. I'm sure some are sticklers for the law, but they are with out a doubt in the minority. Come on!

[Truthseeker]

what does the law say about shooting hens?

one bird does not a bird dog make.

[tro182]

What bothers me most is the fact that you killed the hen and then decided to follow the law and leave it lay. If you are going to break one law what stops a guy from just doing whatever he wants? The only way that I choose to hunt is follow the law, my boys go with me and look up to me as an example. What kind of kids would I raise telling them to obey only the laws you feel like following?

[tommyboy72]

I don't mean to relax your morals Ezzy. As prairiefire stated I just mean to chill out and don't be so hard on the guy. Just remember people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. He broke a minor hunting law or rule. How many of you guys on this site have done worse? How many of you in deer rich states have "gotten rid of those pesky critters" because they ate your corn or shot a coyote or skunk or coon? Cheated on taxes, hired illegal aliens, looked at a nice looking woman who wasn't your wife, etc.?

[Birddogz]

Good lord! The guy used 1 hen to train his dog. I'm not saying that this is a good idea to train dogs. I'm saying that the guy made a decision. Was it right? No. Do I forgive him? heck yeah! My God, it is one bird! Chill out! Should he have eaten the bird? Yes. He probably didn't do it for fear to meet a game warden. I bet that he has spent many dollars in Pheasants Forever. Look at the real result. Live in the real world, and not in the ridiculous.

[prairiefirepointers]

what does the law say about shooting hens?

one bird does not a bird dog make.

Without that first bird, you don't have a bird dog, slick.

What bothers me most is the fact that you killed the hen and then decided to follow the law and leave it lay.

Don't let it bother you. Is it more or less likely that you will shoot a hen afield or Speed on the highway? Negate to use proper turn signals, brake at the reccommended distance? All are broken laws I gaurentee at some point you have broken. Unless of course, your mommy still hauls you around. These are all broken laws.

Let the first person to never break any law, period, be the first to cast stones.

Birddogz, Yes I do spend alot of time and money in land management on my private ground. I surrogate quail coveys (usually a couple hundered birds) I buy seed for planting bird strips, I have seed for the wild birds, etc. My contributions to the species far outweighs the Lone Hen I dispatched.

Edited to add content.

[prairiefirepointers]

Since a few of us have shared honest experiences and feedback, I think we've gleaned all we're going to from this thread before it turns into a peeing match. I would not be opposed to it being locked before it gets out of hand. That was not my intention from the inception of posting this.

Several members have shared, a few have disagreed, (yet shown class in doing so), and a few are just looking for a fight with nothing to add. As a matter of fact the noisiest one's are the members with the lowest number of forum posts. Hmm..?

[tro182]

I dont want to judge your actions but you brought it up. If I did some thing like this I would admit my mistake and not do it again. We all make mistakes some own them some make excusses. Where you fit in shows your character. I dont know how this applies to you only you can answer that question.

[prairiefirepointers]

I dont want to judge your actions but you brought it up. If I did some thing like this I would admit my mistake and not do it again. We all make mistakes some own them some make excusses. Where you fit in shows your character. I dont know how this applies to you only you can answer that question.

SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE NOT ADMITTED TO ANYTHING

I am but one of the FEW completely honest one's who have posted on this thread I started. Where have you been??? Oh, Yeah 49 posts ago, you were not here. :roll:

[ezzy333]

Locking the topic just might be the best thing to do. I can't find fault with any of you that posted but probably this is as far as it goes beore we start with the i'm better than you and we don't need that as we learn nothing from it.

Ezzy