Spinone Italiano, Vrs Drahthaar

[Rich Baker]

Ive narrowed it to two breeds that interest me . I just think they look cool but how about huntability I know and have seen the Drahthaars in action and kind of know what to expect from a quality breeding. I have never seen a Spinone . What do you guys think? Im a new to pointers and training an upland dog. I trained a few good duck dogs but thats about it. what do you think would be the best breed for me.

[Birddogz]

DDs are going to be more high powered. Spins are very methodical, and don't move as quickly. They have very long legs however, and are often moving quicker than you think. Spins are better around other dogs and people. I have never seen an aggresive Spin, I have seen aggressive DDs. I would own either dog, but would probably go with the DD until I was older. I actually think both are fine breeds.

[crackerd]

Tons of reasons and all documented to recommend a Draht over a spinone - namely the breeding that's gone into them and the work they''ve undertaken afield. But a spin, now there's a companion animal that can become everything you're looking for, field and stream, if the breeding's good and if you devote the time to training it. They can go all day afield without breaking a sweat (probably because it's not their style to break a sweat) and then go right across the English Channel to get a mark if that's what you want from them retrieving. What they'll do on a NAVHDA duck search could almost give the Italian Navy a good name. Never had a better waterdog and I run retriever trials with Labs.

MG

[tommyboy72]

I am going to let Sal or MCBosco handle this one. I know he loves his Spinones.

[JKP]

I haven't seen a lot of Spinone (maybe 20 over the years) but I've only seen one that would fit my style. Most hunt a large part of the time at a fast walk...very close working...not a lot of style or intensity on point. That said, they seem to be a breed that attracts a lot single women and "poopsie" type owners, so they might be capable of more...I'm not sure how many folks are really working these dogs hard. There are styles of DD from the easy going 75yd dog to a pretty serious chukar style dog that can really get after it....They are very good water dogs but if you need a steady 300+ yard dog, i would move on to a GSP, Britt or longtail.

The question is really about what your style of dog is.

[ezzy333]

If you go on reputation the Spinone is probably the slowest closest working dog in the field. The ones I have seen and that isn't many but they would wear you out waiting on them. However they seem to be a decent dog if you like big wirehaired dogs that are not reall pretty or stylish. The DD are a little faster and more stylish wirehair, a little smaller, but still a good sized dog that has a little different attitude than many or most hunting dogs. But as a breed they are not big running dogs either. It just persoanal likes and dislikes that you have to use to decide what you want.

Ezzy

[Birddogz]

I have hunted with some Spins in SD that were fantastic. They are capable of hunting hard, and they are slow working when compared to long tails, but they really do cover more ground than it looks like. Their points aren't real stylish, but their noses are excellent. They can take very cold weather as well.

[dan v]

They can take very cold weather as well.

Yeah, but are their legs long enough?

[Rich Baker]

The question is really about what your style of dog is.

Well There ya go. I dont really know. I hunt ducks and I want to hunt chucker,pheasant,grouse and quail as well. Id like to have one dog to do it all. Ive alwasy had this dream of hunting over a nice pointing breed. Ive owned labs and a golden. the golden never turned out but my lab was a great hunting dog but wasnt much of a upland dog but did ok on pheasents. That said I dont have horses to chase a pointer all over the hills here in oregon. so I want a breed that I can walk behind and get some shooting in. I do like the scruffy look of these breeds and I have read they pull double duty in the duck blind. So I dont really need a duck dog as everyone of my hunting buddys has a lab so what breed would you guys recommend I look into ?

[Winchey]

If you like the wirehairs look into the the Giffons and Pudelpointers as well. There are representatives of all the wirehaired breeds I am sure you would be happy with, go visit some breeders and go hunting with some, pick what you like best.

[Birddogz]

They can take very cold weather as well.

Yeah, but are their legs long enough?

Actually, I can't imagine a bird dog with longer legs.

[Rich Baker]

If you like the wirehairs look into the the Giffons and Pudelpointers as well. There are representatives of all the wirehaired breeds I am sure you would be happy with, go visit some breeders and go hunting with some, pick what you like best.

IVE hunted with a giffon and didnt care to mush for it. Never seen a pudelpointer?? I like English setters but Ive hear its a chore to get them to retrieve.

[Birddogz]

The question is really about what your style of dog is.

Well There ya go. I dont really know. I hunt ducks and I want to hunt chucker,pheasant,grouse and quail as well. Id like to have one dog to do it all. Ive alwasy had this dream of hunting over a nice pointing breed. Ive owned labs and a golden. the golden never turned out but my lab was a great hunting dog but wasnt much of a upland dog but did ok on pheasents. That said I dont have horses to chase a pointer all over the hills here in oregon. so I want a breed that I can walk behind and get some shooting in. I do like the scruffy look of these breeds and I have read they pull double duty in the duck blind. So I dont really need a duck dog as everyone of my hunting buddys has a lab so what breed would you guys recommend I look into ?

Pudelpointers from Cedarwood kennels, and never look back. Seriously, sounds like a great fit for you.

[ACooper]

I wouldn't discount pointers and setters, thought I don't own either you can't just assume that all pointers are going to run over the hill and all setters aren't going to retrieve. You need to get out and see some dogs. If you just like the look of the wirehaired breeds thats great and a good enough reason to pick one. Do yourself a favor and see as many breeds as possible.

[mcbosco]

I think the whole question of style is pretty silly and is really 100% subjective. The have a stealthy way about them that people don't like. Birdogz called it "methodic". They also wag their tails like a metronome on scent and then stop on point. Many people find this odd. They are big, which not everyone likes.

Frankly, I find them more attractive than most dogs and they are really charming, docile animals. I will agree with Ezzy that they do work slow but it is not because they don't cover ground, because they do and really don't seem bothered by running all day. They are just very thorough, the downside to having a pretty spectacular nose. The bad comes with the good but this tends to dissipate with training.

Physically they are very sound, very strong and very easy to handle. As stated above, they are really happy in the water (even cold rough water) and can haul in anything with little difficulty. Size and body mass does matter. They also have the patience and temperament like a good Lab in this application.

This is a really odd comparison because a DD is a very outwardly intense dog whereas the Spinone is a much more relaxed animal. They look very similar in photos though.

As far as temperament goes, they are as bullet proof as an animal can be.

I really don't know why people say they don't like the point, because I get quite a few compliments on his point.

So much has to do with what you need or expect. I certainly wouldn't make the decision on "style". If you value a really friendly, quiet dog in the house and very effective dog in the water and field then a Spinone may make sense.

I do wish that more pro trainers would get them because Ed Erickson, Lena Amirian and a few others have trained some great dogs.

Ruffshooter on here is friends with Lena maybe he will chime in.

[tro182]

If you like the wirehairs look into the the Giffons and Pudelpointers as well. There are representatives of all the wirehaired breeds I am sure you would be happy with, go visit some breeders and go hunting with some, pick what you like best.

Picking up our Wirehaired Vizsla in a couple of weeks. The WHV are a good temprament breed also. Finding a good breeder who stands behind the dogs they breed is as important as the breed itself. If you have any questions I will send you some info on breeders.

My wife loves the spinone but they are to big for us, seem like great dogs.

[tro182]

I really don't know why people say they don't like the point, because I get quite a few compliments on his point.

Your avatar is one of the best points of any dog on the forum IMO

[mcbosco]

If you like the wirehairs look into the the Giffons and Pudelpointers as well. There are representatives of all the wirehaired breeds I am sure you would be happy with, go visit some breeders and go hunting with some, pick what you like best.

IVE hunted with a giffon and didnt care to mush for it. Never seen a pudelpointer?? I like English setters but Ive hear its a chore to get them to retrieve.

Spinone are very similar to the large frame ES's that dominated the East years ago. The difference is that Spinone swim very well, are much more robust physically and love retrieving.

[lvrgsp]

I agree with ya on the PP if your gonna go that route at the very least call Bob at Cedarwood, hes in your neck of the woods to.
http://www.cedarwoodgundogs.com/

I would say a PP or a DD no offense to any Spinones...

[birddogger]

The question is really about what your style of dog is.

Well There ya go. I dont really know. I hunt ducks and I want to hunt chucker,pheasant,grouse and quail as well. Id like to have one dog to do it all. Ive alwasy had this dream of hunting over a nice pointing breed. Ive owned labs and a golden. the golden never turned out but my lab was a great hunting dog but wasnt much of a upland dog but did ok on pheasents. That said I dont have horses to chase a pointer all over the hills here in oregon. so I want a breed that I can walk behind and get some shooting in. I do like the scruffy look of these breeds and I have read they pull double duty in the duck blind. So I dont really need a duck dog as everyone of my hunting buddys has a lab so what breed would you guys recommend I look into ?

Between the two, choosing the one that fits what you have listed, the DD is a no brainer IMO.

Charlie

[Ruffshooter]

From what you describe for your hunting pleasures, I would look towards the DD or Puel pointer. The Spinone has a cannon for a nose, very good water dogs, not too stylish but great companions and can do a lot.

[mcbosco]

Ive narrowed it to two breeds that interest me . I just think they look cool but how about huntability I know and have seen the Drahthaars in action and kind of know what to expect from a quality breeding. I have never seen a Spinone . What do you guys think? Im a new to pointers and training an upland dog. I trained a few good duck dogs but thats about it. what do you think would be the best breed for me.

One thing you didn't mention is you family situation or plans family-wise. Is this the only dog in the house? Are there other dogs in the family that you will see often? How much exercise will the dog get during the week? Will you keep the dog indoors? Is having a quiet dog in the house important? Is your wife or GF in the decision making process?

These are important questions because if you are like many people looking for a hunting dog, this dog might be doing as much time at kid's sporting events.

Also, what is your temperament? Serious question actually.

[Rich Baker]

.

One thing you didn't mention is you family situation or plans family-wise. Is this the only dog in the house? Are there other dogs in the family that you will see often? How much exercise will the dog get during the week? Will you keep the dog indoors? Is having a quiet dog in the house important? Is your wife or GF in the decision making process?

These are important questions because if you are like many people looking for a hunting dog, this dog might be doing as much time at kid's sporting events.

Also, what is your temperament? Serious question actually.

I have raised 6 children 3 from a previouse marrage, I have adopted two more one 12 year old girl and a 5 year old boy. My wife loves dogs as much as I do. we have owned chows, shapai, labs, golden, springer,newfoundland, and right now we have a yorkie and a lopso opso. I work three days a week and 4 days every other week . so Im home alot or im on the columbia river fishing out of my 20 foot alumaweld. so my dog will most likely spend a bit of time in the boat with me. he/she will also be in the house most nights and in a large dog run during work days for about 12 hours then will rejoin the family. I have a large fenced back yard and a good sized home as well. Im very easy going I dont get mad at dogs because if there doing somthing wrong its most likly because I did somthing wrong in there training. Ive assisted some pro retriever trainers and have learned a bunch from them but I really want a pointing breed.

[mcbosco]

Of the two, personally, I think a Spinone would be a better fit for a household like that. Let me go out on a limb here, I even think a good DD breeder is going to tell you the same.

JMO

[jlp8cornell]

Of the two, personally, I think a Spinone would be a better fit for a household like that. JMO

Ditto. From what I have seen of the breed, your kids will have a new best friend as well. Would make a good dog for them to work as well if they are interested.

[Birddogz]

I will say that my DD has ENDLESS indurance and energy. If she were in a kennel for 12 hours a day for 4 days, she is going to be running through your house like a bullet. The DD is also more likely to fetch you your Yorkie rather than your slippers. A DD needs LOTS AND LOTS of work outside. Mine gets annoying if I don't hunt her for 2-3 days, and she is never more than 4 hours in her crate. Put it this way. When she is outside, and wants to come in from outside, she jumps up 5 ft. and balances on a window ledge overlooking our kitchen window.

[northern cajun]

I know a couple of Navhda gals that have some VC Spins that are pretty nice. If your looking let send me a PM.
From the thread I would suggest a spin for ya, DD's are a different animal.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[JKP]

So there you have it...sounds like with some homework, you could get a dog from all of these breeds that fits the bill. I agree about the Cedarwoods PP...some wonderful dogs coming out of that program. You are in the middle of "DD Chukar Central"..lots of breeders in ID, UT and MT to go visit. As far as Spinone, I'm sure someone here could network you as well. Post a picture of the pup when you get it.

[Rich Baker]

Never thought of the PP Nice animal. I told Bob at Cedarwoods to put me on his list. spins look good to me as well. Im so confused :roll:

[Ruffshooter]

Rich: The only way to really figure it is go visit some grown dogs and have the Kennel take you out for a walk/hunt and bring the kids, Maybe .

[Greg Jennings]

Rich,

I know I'm coming in late on this, but endorse Rick's post immediately above. Just a caution that what "a lot of ground" means to one person means something entirely different to someone else.

I thought I knew what "wide open" meant till we hunted in MT last year. The average public hutning plot in south/central ND was, thinking off the cuff, around a full section, while the average plots we hunted in south/central MT were several thousand acres.

From what I see of Doug Favor's and other's pictures, chukar hunting grounds are more akin to what I saw in MT.

FWIW,

Greg J.

[Rich Baker]

Thanks guys, I do believe I am going to go with a well bred english setter. I have an old boy local that breds some real nice hunting dogs. Im hoping that it all works out well. Thanks for all the advice and help>

[Munster]

I would say they are both ugly so your are in good hands!

[northern cajun]

Be ready to exercise your dog no matter the breed!

[ezzy333]

Thanks guys, I do believe I am going to go with a well bred english setter. I have an old boy local that breds some real nice hunting dogs. Im hoping that it all works out well. Thanks for all the advice and help>

Think you made a good choice.

Ezzy