The Llewellin Setter 1896

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gunner
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The Llewellin Setter 1896

Post by gunner » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:23 pm

Found an interesting read on that strain written by the man that brought the first one across the pond. Article in it's original form, text and images...

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?view ... 57;num=339

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AzDoggin
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Re: The Llewellin Setter 1896

Post by AzDoggin » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:27 pm

Very cool. I would be interested to hear HighCotton's perspective on this.

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kninebirddog
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Re: The Llewellin Setter 1896

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:45 pm

It is neat to read and see stuff from the past I have a book call the Modern Setter book written by A. F Hochwalt copyright 1923 talking about the Stater rheobe Lavarack cross strain of setter known as llewellin setter but the most interesting is how they would bet and run dogs back then


Starting on page 20....

states that
The Campbell Setters were probably purer then the Llewellin, But
like the origin of most strains, it consisted of a conglomeration of various
lines; probably Gordon unquestionably Irish, were in great preponderance. In
fact. it was the admixture of the Irish setter Elcho, which produced Joe Jr, the
greatest of all the Campbells, for he defeated Gladstone on several occasions;
but the notable race was run December 15 and 16 1879, when he competed against
this greatest exponent of the Duke-Rheobe-Lavaracks in an endurance race and won
by a considerable margin. The race was originally to be of three days' duration
and the dogs were to run from sunrise to sundown but the night before the match,
Gladstone came to the meeting with a broken tail. The fractured tip was in
several layers of canvas stuck together with varnish. Because Gladstone's
condition the Owner, Mr P. H. Bryson, asked to limit the race to two days
instead of three as originally agreed upon, and those who had the Joe Jr. end of
it readily agreed. The race was for $500 a side and was to be judged on a point
system- that is, nothing was to count except actual points on quail;
style,speed,range and other field trial qualifications were not to be taken into
consideration. At the end of the first day Joe Jr had thirty-four points to
Gladstones thirty. By nine o'clock of the second day , Gladstone was two points
ahead of his antagonist and there was every apparent chance of his winning, but
by one o'clock, Joe Jr, although he was very lame, passed the blue blood and was
one point in the lead when a halt was made for luncheon. Resuming after a brief
respite Joe Jr started under a handicap, as his lameness seemed to be due to a
strained shoulder and the backers of Gladstone were jubilant, but the cross bred
warm bred warmed up like a spavined thoroughbred, the lameness seemed to
disappear as if by magic and he began piling up points fast until sundown when
the race was concluded, he had a total score of Sixty-one points to Gladstones
fifty-two. The despised Native had beaten the pick of the blue-bloods most
decisively......

there are some more races describe another in Grand Junction a race for $1000
bucks dec 20-21 Weather conditions were Abdominal even in the writing of this
book copyright 1923 they state no field trial judge would think of running dogs
in such weather it was a setter named grousedale a large dog with a heavy coat
againt Lita small bitch of sparse coat and light of feet. this race was extended
to 3 days but on the afternoon of the second day the larger Grousedale was in
distress and Lit became the winner

on page 24 the final paragraph

The race is food for reflection to present day field trial patrons and it
might be well to stop and ask the question, could any of our setters of present
day do as well as even this big plebian-born native under the same conditions?
or are we breeding dogs equal of Lit in endurance and all other qualities that
go to make the truly great field trial dog? Perhaps we are, but nevertheless if
that be so, we must admit the glaring truth that they are far and few between.
Again remember the Book Copyright is 1923
In the back of this book is an article clipping which states it might be
interesting to run back over the dogs that have won this Championship stake of
the National Field trial association down at grand junction
The first National Championship was run at west point Mississippi and count
Glastone was the winner in 1886
it was called off in 1887
Tony Gales setter won it in 1889 in New Albany Mississippi then back to west
point 1899 Joe Cumming another setter was top dog .
1900 the trial was shifted to Grand Junction 1900 Lady's count gladstone,
1901 Souix a setter,
1902 Sioux repeated the win,
1903 Geneva a setter,
1904 Mohawk II a setter,
1905 Alambagh a setter,
1906 Pioneer a setter,
1907 Prince Whitestone a setter,
1908 Prince whitestone II a setter,
in 1909 the pointer men got their first innings Manitoba Rap won
1910 Monora setter, 1911 Eugene M setter, 1912 Commissioner setter
1913 Phillipides setter, 1914 Comanche Frank Pointer, 1915 La Besita setter,
1916 John Proctor pointer, 1917 Mary Montrose pointer, 1918 Joe Munice setter,
1919 & 1920 Mary Montrose pointer, 1921 Ferris jake pointer, 1922 & 1923 1925
Becky Broomhill pointer, 1924 Doughboy pointer, 1926 1928 1930 Feagans Mohawk
Pal setter, 1927 McTyre pointer,1929 1931 1932 Mary Blue pointer, 1933 Rapid
transit pointer, 1934 Norias Annie pointer, 1935 Homewood Flirtatious pointer,
1936 Sulu pointer, 1937 Air Pilots sam, pointer, 1938 trial was not run then
1939 Sports Peerless Pride setter, 1940 Lester enjoy wahoo pointer, 1941 1943
1945 Aerial pointer, 1942 Luminary pointer and in 1944 the trial was not held

So by the list of winner this article which ends with
"So there you are, Gentlemen, you adherents of both long-hairs and short-haired
pointing dogs. Since 1986 three pointers- Mary Montrose, Becky Broomhill and
Aerial- have won the national three times and one setter, Feagin's Mohawk Pal,
has duplicated the feat. All of which, of course, won't go even two hoots and a
hollar towards settling the pointer-setter controversy."
I am gathering this article that was taped inside the book was written sometime late 1944 early 1945
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.

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AzDoggin
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Re: The Llewellin Setter 1896

Post by AzDoggin » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:01 pm

kninebirddog wrote:... All of which, of course, won't go even two hoots and a
hollar towards settling the pointer-setter controversy."
Bird dogs? Controversy? 60+ years have passed and we haven't settled it YET? Say it ain't so, Knine!! :lol:

Cool quote - thanks for including it. Agree it's a blast to read that old stuff.

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kninebirddog
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Re: The Llewellin Setter 1896

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:51 pm

AzHusker wrote:
kninebirddog wrote:... All of which, of course, won't go even two hoots and a
hollar towards settling the pointer-setter controversy."
Bird dogs? Controversy? 60+ years have passed and we haven't settled it YET? Say it ain't so, Knine!! :lol:

Cool quote - thanks for including it. Agree it's a blast to read that old stuff.
Yeah I had to get a kick out of that line
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.

Truthseeker
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Re: The Llewellin Setter 1896

Post by Truthseeker » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:30 am

now that is a test, head to head for three days most points win. i wonder how many of todays dogs would be weeded out

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kninebirddog
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Re: The Llewellin Setter 1896

Post by kninebirddog » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:02 am

Truthseeker wrote:now that is a test, head to head for three days most points win. i wonder how many of todays dogs would be weeded out
Makes you wonder doesn't it
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.

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