Gun Dog Forum

gunner wrote:Birdogz wrote: "Most FT guys don't have seasoned pheasant dogs. That I am sure about. "

You might be surprised. There are field trial dogs started, trained, and broke on pheasant. Do you know of the Pheasant Futurity, the Pheasant Championships both amateur and open and the restricted breed stakes run for years on the long tailed birds? Do you know of the many pros that have their training camps, some passed down for decades in some of the best pheasant country, starting young pups and finishing their older dogs and hunting strings on the gaudy birds? Do you know how many field trialers/bird hunters make the traditional yearly sojourn back out from other parts of the country to kill their limit over their dogs?

gunner, I've had old hunters tell me that a field trial pointing dog can't handle a grouse and many make the same claim that Birdogz, makes about trial dogs handling pheasants. Where do people get this misinformation?

Grouse Dog Guy wrote:

gunner wrote:Birdogz wrote: "Most FT guys don't have seasoned pheasant dogs. That I am sure about. "

You might be surprised. There are field trial dogs started, trained, and broke on pheasant. Do you know of the Pheasant Futurity, the Pheasant Championships both amateur and open and the restricted breed stakes run for years on the long tailed birds? Do you know of the many pros that have their training camps, some passed down for decades in some of the best pheasant country, starting young pups and finishing their older dogs and hunting strings on the gaudy birds? Do you know how many field trialers/bird hunters make the traditional yearly sojourn back out from other parts of the country to kill their limit over their dogs?

gunner, I've had old hunters tell me that a field trial pointing dog can't handle a grouse and many make the same claim that Birdogz, makes about trial dogs handling pheasants. Where do people get this misinformation?

Off of the internet!!!

cjuve wrote:

Grouse Dog Guy wrote:

gunner wrote:Birdogz wrote: "Most FT guys don't have seasoned pheasant dogs. That I am sure about. "

You might be surprised. There are field trial dogs started, trained, and broke on pheasant. Do you know of the Pheasant Futurity, the Pheasant Championships both amateur and open and the restricted breed stakes run for years on the long tailed birds? Do you know of the many pros that have their training camps, some passed down for decades in some of the best pheasant country, starting young pups and finishing their older dogs and hunting strings on the gaudy birds? Do you know how many field trialers/bird hunters make the traditional yearly sojourn back out from other parts of the country to kill their limit over their dogs?

gunner, I've had old hunters tell me that a field trial pointing dog can't handle a grouse and many make the same claim that Birdogz, makes about trial dogs handling pheasants. Where do people get this misinformation?

Off of the internet!!!

Maybe thats the case today but I heard it from people before there was and internet! Must just get handed down!

It isn't misinformation. How many FTs are on wild phez compared to other birds? Also, this has been MY experience. Believe me, my hunting party was less than pleased with me every time I brought a friend with FT dogs. It isn't that they aren't capable of hunting pheasant, it is just that they often times aren't exposed. They simply take off and hunt big, like they are looking for quail. If they had been born and raised hunting phez they wouldn't act as they do. It is the training, not the dog. Most FT guys I know think Phez "ruin" good dogs. They would rather hunt quail.

Handling different gamebird species can create problems for dogs and their handlers. Thats what field trials can do... seperate good dogs and their handlers from ones less talented.

It's Ok to name your field trial friends names and what venues they compete in.

Here you go... you are the only one that said it. No one else laid claim to being great and important .... "you" are included in the "we" of your statement.

JKP wrote:We all ought to thank the complacent masses that we can sit around and discuss how great and important we are.

Guess you chose to ignore the tongue in cheek irony...I'll keep it simple next time.

Handling different gamebird species can create problems for dogs and their handlers.

Til you have hunted different birds in different conditions, you really can't state that you have a great bird dog. Takes a while and IMO with pheasant you have to have the courage to keep your mouth shut and let the dog figure it out. Watching a good dog repeatedly relocate and try to pin a running bird down is as exciting to me as any "head crank" on the horizon. Many dogs never get it. None of our games tell us about that intelligence/instinct (save the trials on phez that have been mentioned)...whatever you want to call it....to be able to go from grouse, to chukar, to pheasant, to mid season sharpies. Years back I had a magical outing with a dog and shot my limit of phez and sharpie in less than an hour...the dog nailed down the moving roosters but gave me the long range "sharptail gaze" on a couple of small coveys of sharpies, the kind where you start hauling butt and hope you get there before they lift off...takes time...if paying the rent didn't get in the way, we'd all have more opportunity. You guys in the upper midwest, however, should all have super dogs.

gunner wrote:ElhewPointer wrote: "But hey, you have a dog like Sir Lancelot that came from hunting dog stock."

...I never would consider him coming from hunting dog stock. In his immediate pedigree some of the winningest shoot to retrieve champions and above that some of the field trial's greatest horseback champions.

Look past that one dog and there isn't much there. Sorry.

I'd like to know how many people on here have actually seen a WILD Pheasant before. idk who said something about the pheasant championship but, come on, those are pre-released birds.

idk who said something about the pheasant championship but, come on, those are pre-released birds.

"Say it ain't so, Joe, say it ain't so!!"

Whatcha guys chattin' 'bout now?

Til you have hunted different birds in different conditions, you really can't state that you have a great bird dog

When I was 'rounding up those pics, I kept having to sort thru the same dogs with pics like this to find 'em - freakin' wierd:






Sorry,I get so easily sidetracked, what were we chattin' about?

Whew....Thank God Doug Favor checked in, I was worried...because let me tell you about a truly tough bird...the chukar. You see out west we have a bird transplanted from the middle east, and he is a dangerous critter...and because danger is my middle name, I will leave in the wee hours of the morning to cross the most dangerous summit in the sierras in a snow storm, when I could actually pheasant hunt in 20 minutes down the road.

I will have crampons, an ice axe, various ropes and those carabineer thingies. I will carry flak, jacket, spotting scope and a side arm. Oh but my task will pale compared to my dogs. Not only will they have to handle running birds, tough scenting conditions, brutal country, et al. These terrorist linked birds have internet access and have learned to construct road side bombs; as a result, we have had to train our dogs to sniff out explosives.

This is what we are faced with...real bird dog work. No games that allow a huge descendant of the wolf to simply frighten a fleeing ornate prairie/ditch dweller. Nope, this is mano-a-mano, and my question is, why are there no wild chukar trials?

ps...Doug, I was worried sick, Cjuve has checked in once in awhile, but you should be more responsible.

DGFavor wrote:Whatcha guys chattin' 'bout now?

Til you have hunted different birds in different conditions, you really can't state that you have a great bird dog

A Sparrow?

ps...Doug, I was worried sick, Cjuve has checked in once in awhile, but you should be more responsible.

Been workin' and shovelin' snow lettin' the dogs entertain themselves knockin' and chasin' the dozen or so phez out of the russian olive trees behind my house every morning while I feed the horses - urban trash birds.

A Sparrow?

Mowed down half a forest of oak trees to get those 3 little sparrow muthas!!

Holly crap pictorial proof, DG your going to start trouble with that!

tommyboy72 wrote:Worse than a bunch of cackling hens. Perhaps I should join a quilting circle or knitting club with you guys.

Better yet of all the great hunters out there. Can you even name all of the different types of birds that are in Mr. Favor's pictures? I know I can..

my question is, why are there no wild chukar trials?

There is in Idaho and Nevada.


Carry on

Disclaimer: Not up to Doug's work, but here are some pics.

A little known area of SW Ohio

Greg Jennings wrote:Disclaimer: Not up to Doug's work, but here are some pics.

A little known area of SW Ohio

So you're walking a fenceline and you find phez that ran into some barb...hanging his'self...and you stop to take a picture? Wuz'up wit dat?

wait...wait...wait...I learned this trick on this very internet forum...now I change my question/statement because Busterb has the audacity to give me an answer...

by Busterb

There is in Idaho and Nevada.


Carry on

OH YEAH? Well not in December and January when I hunt.
There you have it

ElhewPointer wrote: "But hey, you have a dog like Sir Lancelot that came from hunting dog stock."

...I never would consider him coming from hunting dog stock. In his immediate pedigree some of the winningest shoot to retrieve champions and above that some of the field trial's greatest horseback champions.

ElhewPointer wrote: "Look past that one dog and there isn't much there. Sorry."
ElhewPointer
Rank: Champion

,,,,, here's a start ....Branscom's Nickle < Pike Creek Mike, HOF Red Water Rex, Tiny Wahoo, Ennis Drug Delivery, The Texas Squire, Riggin's White Knight etc....The fruit does not fall far from the tree.

Chukar12 wrote:wait...wait...wait...I learned this trick on this very internet forum...now I change my question/statement because Busterb has the audacity to give me an answer...

by Busterb

There is in Idaho and Nevada.


Carry on

OH YEAH? Well not in December and January when I hunt.
There you have it

You have learned well grasshopper..................

gunner wrote:ElhewPointer wrote: "But hey, you have a dog like Sir Lancelot that came from hunting dog stock."

...I never would consider him coming from hunting dog stock. In his immediate pedigree some of the winningest shoot to retrieve champions and above that some of the field trial's greatest horseback champions.

ElhewPointer wrote: "Look past that one dog and there isn't much there. Sorry."
ElhewPointer
Rank: Champion

,,,,, here's a start ....Branscom's Nickle < Pike Creek Mike, HOF Red Water Rex, Tiny Wahoo, Ennis Drug Delivery, The Texas Squire, Riggin's White Knight etc....The fruit does not fall far from the tree.

I guess I don't know how far you usually look back in a dogs pedigree. You're right, those dogs are in there. But out of the 14 dogs in the first 3 generations there is one champion, CLJ.

If you go back a little further, you'll see he has wolf in him too.

[/quote]OH YEAH? Well not in December and January when I hunt.
There you have it[/quote]

We are hunting wild birds as well and trialing season is a way to extend our time in the field with out dogs.

Trials on Chuckar are held in March and April AFTER hunting season is over, but that's the best part about trialing is and extra 3-4 months of running your dog.

Wyndander: What's up with dat?

Anytime you find a pheasant in SW Ohio, it's a red-letter day!

Greg J.

Greg,
Are those wild pheasants? ...can't be. Those dogs look like the ones that you are holding ribbons with in your avatar.

You've got me! I stole them from a game farm operation out west of Germantown.

I have relatives in Germantown! You may have stolen from my family!

awesome pictures DGFavor, whats that saying i am thinking off? something about a pictures worth a thousand words.

big steve46 wrote:I have relatives in Germantown! You may have stolen from my family!

Northwest of Germantown? Might have been them!

A few years back in ND....there's a jack in there somewhere too...I love ND...ducks or geese or crane in the morning, birds during the day, maybe back to the hill ponds for a few ducks end of day...all you out in the upper midwest are in heaven and I hope you know it.

"there is one champion, CLJ."

I think Mike was focusing on National Bird Hunter titles at the time but was a regular over at Dewey Mullin's grounds. I think it was Dewey or the Hoosier gun dog bard, pointer breeder Paul Jamerson that used to say " You can't pick peaches from a lemon tree"

CLJ championships were all NSTRA I think though.

I

gunner wrote:"there is one champion, CLJ."

I think Mike was focusing on National Bird Hunter titles at the time but was a regular over at Dewey Mullin's grounds. I think it was Dewey or the Hoosier gun dog bard, pointer breeder Paul Jamerson that used to say " You can't pick peaches from a lemon tree"

CLJ championships were all NSTRA I think though.

I

???

Anyway, like I said. Not a lot of sucessful trial dogs in Sir Lancelot's ped.

JKP wrote:A few years back in ND....there's a jack in there somewhere too...I love ND...ducks or geese or crane in the morning, birds during the day, maybe back to the hill ponds for a few ducks end of day...all you out in the upper midwest are in heaven and I hope you know it.

So the limit on Trumpeters is three?...good to know!

So the limit on Trumpeters is three?...good to know!

Don't know about Trumpeters...on Sandhills its 3...I think the limit on Trumpeters is 18 months and 5 years on the license :roll:

Busterb wrote:Better yet of all the great hunters out there. Can you even name all of the different types of birds that are in Mr. Favor's pictures? I know I can..

my question is, why are there no wild chukar trials?

There is in Idaho and Nevada.


Carry on

Mearns,Gambel's, Chukar, phez, sharptail, Huns.

Where are the Ruffs and Blues?

Nice pics. There is a trialer that hunts many different birds. Many don't though.

ElhewPointer wrote:I'd like to know how many people on here have actually seen a WILD Pheasant before. idk who said something about the pheasant championship but, come on, those are pre-released birds.

Say it ain't so! You mean pen raised pheasants don't act like wild ones???

ACooper wrote:

ElhewPointer wrote:I'd like to know how many people on here have actually seen a WILD Pheasant before. idk who said something about the pheasant championship but, come on, those are pre-released birds.

Say it ain't so! You mean pen raised pheasants don't act like wild ones???

Same bird!

Oh yeah. The released ones are tough to hunt man! Super tough!

The toughest part is kicking them high enough to shoot.

if they take those blinder things off it gets a little tougher, and you can always hold out for the white ones, maybe get it mounted

I think its taking the plastic thing of their beak.

JKP wrote:A few years back in ND....there's a jack in there somewhere too...I love ND...ducks or geese or crane in the morning, birds during the day, maybe back to the hill ponds for a few ducks end of day...all you out in the upper midwest are in heaven and I hope you know it.

I thought heaven was white because of clouds, I never knew it was actually snow! I do love the Dakotas! Nothing like killing a limit of geese and ducks in the morning and shooting Huns, Sharpies, and phez in the late morning, all to be back at 12 to watch football, drink beer, and eat "Buffalo" style phez nuggets with blue cheese dressing.

Busterb wrote:Better yet of all the great hunters out there. Can you even name all of the different types of birds that are in Mr. Favor's pictures? I know I can..

my question is, why are there no wild chukar trials?

There is in Idaho and Nevada.


Carry on

Busterb wrote:

OH YEAH? Well not in December and January when I hunt.
There you have it[/quote]

We are hunting wild birds as well and trialing season is a way to extend our time in the field with out dogs.

Trials on Chuckar are held in March and April AFTER hunting season is over, but that's the best part about trialing is and extra 3-4 months of running your dog.[/quote]

Just so no one gets all excited. Any chukar trial held in Nevada or Idaho is using pen reared birds. If someone actually knows of a real wild chukar trial please inform me as I will be entering dogs

No excitement or misunderstanding here. I became more a part of the problem than the solution with my tongue in cheek comments about 24 hours ago

Chukars aren't wild either? What percentage of trials are on wild birds? I never thought that chukars would be pen birds. Is there ant "circuit" that is only on wild birds?

I guess I don't know how far you usually look back in a dogs pedigree. You're right, those dogs are in there. But out of the 14 dogs in the first 3 generations there is one champion, CLJ.

Is Crow's Little Joe ...a Champion?

Lots of wild birds supplemented with libbys...not enough room or birds for 3 5 8 mile courses when you need two of em to run AA and SD 15 braces or so a day

Now in the twenty minute timed deals where birds are killed that you mentioned being of interest Birddogz the courses are 20 to 40 acres and liberated birds for obvious reasons.

BTW if this explanation doesn't work someone else is in charge I am driving over 80 heading for chukars...this is just a coffee break

In a venue you choose not to reconize.

Vagas was referring to CLJ's pedigree, so my question was whether CLJ had won a recognized Championship that would show on his pedigree. That has nothing to do with what I recognize.

gpblitz wrote:

Yawallac wrote:Vagas was referring to CLJ's pedigree, so my question was whether CLJ had won a recognized Championship that would show on his pedigree. That has nothing to do with what I recognize.

OK. My question is, Does NSTRA publish it's own pedigree as AKC, American Field, and NAVHDA do?

YES!

YES!

If that is true, that NSTRA now has a registry, then it is very conceivable that "NSTRA lines" will be developed.