Field Trialers and What to Do About Them

kbshorthairs · Post by **kbshorthairs** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:39 pm

I understand that man's need to compete is at the root of this debate. Some take that need to higher levels. Enjoying a hobby isn't enough for most people. "My dog is better than yours" type arguments are as old as the hills.
The first field trial all age brace I witnessed made me think all the participants were out of their minds. Why on earth would anyone want a dog like that? Now I would love to have my name associated with such a specimen.
I don't understand why individuals feel the need to criticize the games that other people play. If hunting your dog is what you enjoy......power to you. Why use an online forum to demand respect from competitors in another venue with which you do not participate? Why say my game is better than your game?

Dave Quindt · Post by **Dave Quindt** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:45 pm

Here's something that will make some folks' brains explode:

Instead of thinking of this as "hunters versus trialers", how 'bout thinking about this as "hunters who don't trial versus hunters who do trial"?

Always been curious as to why trialers are not considered hunters.......

FWIW,
Dave

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:45 pm

When people communicate with "I think" or "I feel" they invite an argument and are comfortable in doing so because they really cannot lose. However, they cannot prove their point or be constructive either if the basis of their position lies in these phrases. Infinitely more eggregious is using a phrase like, "I think they feel or I think they think."

I have 4 dogs, two are hunting dogs that are better than any other poster's here on this board or any other board. In fact, there have never in the history of hunting dogs been better dogs than the two of them...and then, I have two dogs that I trial and hunt. Interestingly enough, an occasional flaw shows up in them ... as pointed out by the judges appointed by the organizations to which I paid an entry fee. As JKP said, I will wait for the end of their career to tally wins and losses.

I will have a pile more dogs...I want to train and run AA pointers one day, I lack the experience for that much dog as we sit...and I will tell you this, I have a hard time getting rid of dogs, I aspire to be the Ray G. type...see his post, he runs what he has and enjoys it all. To the victor go the spoils they say, which contest you choose is up to you, maybe that contest is just between you your dog and your birds. In closing, I will stick with the pro sports analogies, don't whine if the Super Bowl gets more coverage than the Stanley Cup; you cannot bring a hockey team and hockey rules to a football game.

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:50 pm

We have early goose for a week or two starting Sept 8th or so, then Woodcock season starts Sept 15th, then Grouse and Waterfowl starts Oct 1st, Grouse goes until like Dec 4th and waterfowl to like Dec 18th. Limits are pretty decent, 6 grouse and ducks a day, 8 or 10 woodcock and like 5 geese (probably not 100% accurate, I can't shoot to save my life anyways so it never really mattered much, except ducks is 100% 6). All the trials are on the weekends, don't see why you can't do both. Some of the wild bird trials around here are in early September. The hunting is great practice for the trialer, and the trialing is great practice for the hunter in my opinion. I have never trialed but I have dipped my toes in testing and love it. I have watched trials and had a blast and am pretty sure it will be even more fun if my dog is running too. Like a lot of people on here have said, they do both, you really don't have to be one or the other.

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:55 pm

Chukar12 wrote:When people communicate with "I think" or "I feel" they invite an argument and are comfortable in doing so because they really cannot lose. However, they cannot prove their point or be constructive either if the basis of their position lies in these phrases. Infinitely more eggregious is using a phrase like, "I think they feel or I think they think."

I have 4 dogs, two are hunting dogs that are better than any other poster's here on this board or any other board. In fact, there have never in the history of hunting dogs been better dogs than the two of them...and then, I have two dogs that I trial and hunt. Interestingly enough, an occasional flaw shows up in them ... as pointed out by the judges appointed by the organizations to which I paid an entry fee. As JKP said, I will wait for the end of their career to tally wins and losses.

I will have a pile more dogs...I want to train and run AA pointers one day, I lack the experience for that much dog as we sit...and I will tell you this, I have a hard time getting rid of dogs, I aspire to be the Ray G. type...see his post, he runs what he has and enjoys it all. To the victor go the spoils they say, which contest you choose is up to you, maybe that contest is just between you your dog and your birds. In closing, I will stick with the pro sports analogies, don't whine if the Super Bowl gets more coverage than the Stanley Cup; you cannot bring a hockey team and hockey rules to a football game.

Are you a lawyer? I have something, how about nobody can prove anything because language is not 100% concrete and can mean whatever someone thinks it means? There is a flaw in communication.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:03 pm

How dare you sir! I am not, I schlep building materials...and for the love of Pete, what is this...

I have something, how about nobody can prove anything because language is not 100% concrete and can mean whatever someone thinks it means

Canadian philosopy?

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:06 pm

Wittgenstein

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:09 pm

Austrian? Way to go Winchy I LOVE IT...

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:12 pm

TAK that was the point I was trying to get out, that at heart we are all hunters. I have nothing against guys who trial that is where I get dogs myself. I just don't care much for the condescending tone of some not all but some trialers when it comes to hunters breeding, raising and training their own dogs. I believe someone mentioned the fact that trial dogs and hunting dogs were different. Well then why do hunters rely on trialers to evaluate breeding and bloodlines? If they are all together different dogs then we shouldn't rely so much on some of the doggy games as a measuring stick for hunting dogs should we? I guess what I am really against is the fact that an established few feel like they can set the overall standard for what a hunting dog should be and hunters who are non doggy game players like myself should accept that as gospel. The point I was trying to make before I ruffled so many feathers all be it unintentionally was that there dogs out there that have no titles and probably would not look good on paper who are just as good a hunter as the titled champion dogs. They just don't get as much PR or recognition. Heck there may be some backwoods hillbilly in Oklahoma or Texas or Kansas wherever that may be breeding some fantastic hunting dogs but no one will ever know about them outside the local area because the guy doesn't trial. I understand you trial guys put a lot of time and effort and money into running your dogs and I respect that and your dogs are the high octane athletes of the bird dog world no doubt but that doesn't always mean they are the best for everyone. I am really sort of tired of arguing and I think I will just read the rest of this post rather than write anything else on here. Many of you make valid points whether I agree with them or not.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:29 pm

I've read all these posts and some have merit and some don't. Just my opinion. I started as a hunter with so called meat dogs. Some of the best dogs I've owned as meat dogs were from FC Tell, Checkmate Dandy Dude and alot more. I'm not talking about grandsons or great grandsons or daughters, but direct from the horses or dogs themselves. I bred dogs for years and raised some fine so called meat dogs. Some one put out a challenge one day to test my dogs against the best at field trials. Personally I don't care to put a Junior title on a pup. To me it's a waste of time. I've been running dogs for quite awhile and won more than my fair share. I have a dog several pros said would never make it. Quess what. He's FC/AFC Levy's City Slicken Clown. He's actually an AA, not that I ever wanted one, but he's here. Killed so many birds over him and not pen raised, but wild birds. Five different species of Quail, Chukar, Pheasant Ducks, Geese. I'm not a water fowler or do blood tracking, but an upland bird hunter. I've heard the comments about how good some ones dogs are and they can compete at field trials, but trust me it's a different world. What you get away with hunting wild birds with a really good or great bird dog won't cut it the the trialer's world. We train for a better dog, manners retrieving backing and just being a better dog. I've seen alot of dogs that would make some great field trial prospects, but the people didn't want to play that game. One of the best wild bird dogs I've ever hunted over was a son of Rawhides Clown. Clowns War Chief, owned by Dave Scott. This dog was a bird finding machine. He could have been an AA Champion with no problem, but Dave wasn't into it at the time. By the way. We also play the twenty minute game with Mike and his son Danner. They've won more than they've lost.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:35 pm

tommyboy72 wrote: They just don't get as much PR or recognition.

I really do think this is the heart of the matter.... Hunter's vs Field Trialers.

People that engage in organized events have the ability to brag on their dog, through the fact that others (judges) have awarded them a prize. (ribbon) The hunter goes forth, quite often alone, and the only witness to the greatness of that dog on that day is the owner. Nobody else there to back-up the brag...one man's word. No pictures on the interweb, no write up in the Field...nothing. Why it could drive a person crazy, the lack of recognition of a truly great hunting dog.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:43 pm

kensfishing I wasn't going to post again but I know Dave well. He is also a guy I talk dogs with quite a bit because believe it or not he knows a heck of a lot about EP's as well as GSP's. Dave told me about this dog and I can't remember but a couple of years ago I hunted quail with Dave and can't remember if it was over Ace or Chief. Dave is a good friend of mine and lives back down here in Guymon now about 20 miles from me. Dave and I haven't been able to get together yet this year to hunt but we will. We hunted some dove and quail last year and ran dogs a time or two. His Ace dog is really good too. I know Dave loved Chief and was really down when he was killed. Dave is a top notch guys and raises some really good dogs. He has a couple right now he is working that are going to be good.

kbshorthairs · Post by **kbshorthairs** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:44 pm

Why? Why should it drive anyone crazy? If we are all hunters at heart, why should the recognition of others be important? If one claims that trialing isn't his thing......that he likes to breed, train, and hunt his dog.......why would he care about recognition? If the recognition or ribbons or notoriety is indeed what he covets......he should rethink his claimed position. IMO

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:45 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:TAK that was the point I was trying to get out, that at heart we are all hunters. .

Ya I know what your say'n I just like to argue!

Buddy you just need to take this with a grain of salt... We all like one type of dog or another, we like to do with them what we do.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:50 pm

tommyboy72 wrote: I just don't care much for the condescending tone of some not all but some trialers when it comes to hunters breeding, raising and training their own dogs. I guess what I am really against is the fact that an established few feel like they can set the overall standard for what a hunting dog should be and hunters who are non doggy game players like myself should accept that as gospel. The point I was trying to make before I ruffled so many feathers all be it unintentionally was that there dogs out there that have no titles and probably would not look good on paper who are just as good a hunter as the titled champion dogs. They just don't get as much PR or recognition. Heck there may be some backwoods hillbilly in Oklahoma or Texas or Kansas wherever that may be breeding some fantastic hunting dogs but no one will ever know about them outside the local area because the guy doesn't trial.

tommyboy72,

You can say anything you want to but that makes it nothing more than your perception. Without evidence the truth has not been established. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, might be, who knows? Without judgement, tests or fair comparisons, you're right .... we'll never know.

I don't know why you would want to point out the possibly bad few anyway. As we all know, everywhere you go there may be a few rotten apples that spoil it for the rest.

I know a few hunters that trial. I don't know any trialers that don't hunt. About our underlying common interest I believe you are correct.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:58 pm

kbshorthairs wrote:Why? Why should it drive anyone crazy? If we are all hunters at heart, why should the recognition of others be important? If one claims that trialing isn't his thing......that he likes to breed, train, and hunt his dog.......why would he care about recognition? If the recognition or ribbons or notoriety is indeed what he covets......he should rethink his claimed position. IMO

kb,

You missed the sarcastic humor in Wyndancer's post.

kbshorthairs · Post by **kbshorthairs** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:00 pm

I guess I was bleary eyed from reading this thread to miss the sarcasm. I have a PhD in sarcasm!

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:09 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:kensfishing I wasn't going to post again but I know Dave well. He is also a guy I talk dogs with quite a bit because believe it or not he knows a heck of a lot about EP's as well as GSP's. Dave told me about this dog and I can't remember but a couple of years ago I hunted quail with Dave and can't remember if it was over Ace or Chief. Dave is a good friend of mine and lives back down here in Guymon now about 20 miles from me. Dave and I haven't been able to get together yet this year to hunt but we will. We hunted some dove and quail last year and ran dogs a time or two. His Ace dog is really good too. I know Dave loved Chief and was really down when he was killed. Dave is a top notch guys and raises some really good dogs. He has a couple right now he is working that are going to be good.

I've had the pleasure of hunting with Dave and Chief for along time. This is the first year in about 11 years I haven't got to get to Dave's. Spent alot of Thansgivings at his parents, or grandmother's. Mike is a son of Chief. I've owned several of his dogs. I've got a son Ace here now. As a judge watching all of the AA braces in the past, Chief would have been finished, but Dave wasn't into that game.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:18 pm

Chukar12 wrote:When people communicate with "I think" or "I feel" they invite an argument

However if you dig a bit deeper this provides insight into their personality profile. Rational minds use logic & those folks normally say "I think". If some folks base their comments upon emotion or feelings, they say "I feel". It'd be unusual for the doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists and veterinarians to say "I feel". A great way to have an entertaining discussion is to have a thinker explain logically to an emotion based individual that they shouldn't "feel" that way.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:25 pm

Why it could drive a person crazy, the lack of recognition of a truly great hunting dog.

Is that what its about...recognition...look at me and how great I am?? WOW....as a breeder, I don't give a cow chip about fame only about putting the best total package I can on the ground for people to go hunt with...and live with. The high point for me will be the number of solid contributors I contributed to the breed. I get worried when fame and winning becomes the goal...because that's the route that show dogs went down...and it can easily happen in other venues. I am just as suspicious of Euro dogs that are marketed on point scores that no one has ever seen on the ground or in a duckblind.

I still think all the pointing breeds should be thankful for folks that take it to the max, expect more and don't settle..no matter what the format. Why are we quibbling about this?

You can say anything you want to but that makes it nothing more than your perception. Without evidence the truth has not been established. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, might be, who knows?

BigShooter,
Sorry, but it is true. I know of numerous examples of dogs with NO trial lines that have finished and/or been competitive. Are you saying that only those that trial would breed for temperament, intelligence, run, cooperation, style, independence? Do you honestly think that these characteristics are unique only to the FT mind? Are you saying that my 2-500 yd NAVHDA dog with 11 finds and 5 backs in an hour brace at the 1998 invitational was a product of the desire for bootlickers..or was that blind luck on my part? or the male I bred that took a 5 point retrieving stake just on a lark. Both of these dogs had ONE trial dog in the pedigree...4 generations back...and that dog came from a DD kennel in Germany. I think you need to take off the blinders...respectfully.

If a buyer wants a 1000 yd FT dog...OK...but you're kidding yourself if you don't think there are plenty of potential FC that just didn't play the game. There are no trial dogs behind DD or DK and more than few could be competitive...if their owners had the dinaro for the horse, trailer, ATV, trainer and 2-3 years to get there

Me I don't even test after Sept 15...hunting is way more important...pointing quail in NJ hedgerows (eastern trial grounds) is about as difficult as picking radishes. Now wild bird trials, that would be more of a test.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:43 pm

BigShooter wrote: Tommyboy,

I firmly believe there are exceptional dogs born that slip through the cracks and are never trialed or never successfully trialed for a whole host of reasons. This does not diminish the accomplishments of those that do win, nor does it mean all "plain 'ol" hunting dogs are born without exceptional potential and talent.

Training on wild birds year around is truly an exceptional opportunity. In many States it is illegal and for many months of the year training is prohibited to protect the young of the year.

I think one area that probably produces the greatest challenges for cross over is grouse in the deep woods vs birds in big open country. I believe there are individual breedings of dogs better suited to specialize under each of those circumstances. Another challenging area is sitting calmly in a duck blind. Again I believe certain breeds have more dogs better suited for this activity.

The trialers I've met have been smart about dogs, gracious and welcoming. Hunters as a whole are a bit more diverse group ranging from diehards to folks doing it once a year as a business networking event or social activity and hunters range from slobs to gentlemen & ladies. Hunter's dogs range from the perverse to the sublime. The diehard hunters and dog people are pretty much on a par with the testers and trialers. However IMO within the hunting group are a whole lot of folks and dogs that aren't at the same level as the aforementioned groups.

JKP,

You missed the sarcastic humor in Dan's post. You also tend to skip over threads and often miss much in previous posts.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:46 pm

BigShooter

.

However if you dig a bit deeper this provides insight into their personality profile. Rational minds use logic & those folks normally say "I think". If some folks base their comments upon emotion or feelings, they say "I feel". It'd be unusual for the doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists and veterinarians to say "I feel". A great way to have an entertaining discussion is to have a thinker explain logically to an emotion based individual that they shouldn't "feel" that way

Haul the couch out here, because I have a neurosis that falls somewhere in these categories as you have described them. I am all ears when someone says, " I think or feel...(followed by fact, or an educated opinion based on observation and identified as such). However, it is like finger nails on a chalkboard to me when someone says, " I think you think or feel...."

If I had to bet my life on where the most genetically superior dog for any venue known to man from pleasure hunting to the rich tradition of Ames is... my guess would be that they are in a backyard or a couch somewhere because of the sheer number of sporting dogs that never see competition v those that do. The point is we will never, ever know it.....BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW IT !!!!

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:51 pm

Wait a minute ... do I think or do I feel you are correct?

As I said before .... "you're right, we'll never know".

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:59 pm

...i just researched your posts, ran the content through Freud.com, it appears you think and have no feelings...
I am sorry

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:00 pm

Heh...ya know what...this is all balderdash...because if every dog owner brought out every dog, campaigned it and promoted it, the whole dog world would look real different...real different. We all ought to thank the complacent masses that we can sit around and discuss how great and important we are. Think about it....

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:08 pm

If ever I were going to buy a GSP Dave would be my go to guy on that. He raises some real good, big running, smart, early starting, bird finding Shorthairs. Dave is a heck of a good guy as well. On top of that Dave really likes my Annie dog, for a Pointer that is.

Oh by the way not a single one of the trialers and I know perhaps 4 maybe 5 of them hunts because they are too busy trialing. That is an admission of their own. I talked to a buddy the other day who drove out to his kennel since it is not located near his house so that he could clean his guns and admire them in his safe. He said he is too busy training and trialing anymore to hunt. Same goes for another buddy of mine who lives in Guymon. He owns a big kennel with lots of nice dogs and doesn't hunt. They just like dogs and trialing. That is their business not mine but they are still good friends.

It is not about trialers vs. hunters either. I get dogs from trialers. I just don't like being told my dogs are not as good as yours because I don't trial. I get my dogs from the same bloodlines as a lot of trialers do. The dogs may have been trained differently but they are not totally different dogs for god sake they probably have a sibling who is trialing. Oh ya both my pointers do have siblings who are trialing. It couldn't be though. They are totally different dogs. Seriously guys give me a break. This is more about being condescending to the hunter than it is about trialer vs. hunter.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:11 pm

didn't this all start because someone called others elitist and or touchy?

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:14 pm

Oh by the way not a single one of the trialers and I know perhaps 4 maybe 5 of them hunts because they are too busy trialing

One trialer here who hunts his "trial" dogs once every week. Every trialer I know here in Utah hunts his dogs and does it a lot. The few others I know throughout the western states also hunt their dogs.
Maybe it's a east of Utah thing to not hunt trial dogs???

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:26 pm

I'm just an old foot hunter who loves the hunt and loves the dogs and loves to hunt with dogs even more.

The only reason I hang around here really is to take in all of the dog knowledge. I think the trialers are probably more attuned to the finer points of gundog training, because that's what brings home the bacon for them. Most, not all, hunters aren't so particular that their dog has every aspect of style of which the dog is capable.

It's all good people. As for whats better - hunting versus trialing? BOTH!!! That question is like asking: what color of hair do you like on your supermodel girlfiend, blonde or brown? It's all good.

Middlecreek · Post by **Middlecreek** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:27 pm

I kinda thought it all started because someone had a gross misunderstanding of field trials, made some pretty uneducated comments and then has been back pedaling ever since and digging the hole even deeper the more they post

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:30 pm

AzHusker It's all good people. As for whats better - hunting versus trialing? BOTH!!! That question is like asking: what color of hair do you like on your supermodel girlfiend, blonde or brown? It's all good.

He is right you know, same with Ginger and Maryann

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:31 pm

Birdogz wrote " have never understood why anyone would trial while there were hunting seasons going on that involved wild birds."

...I've been involved with bird hunting and traditional field trials for over a half century. I've never known any of the field trial clubs in the states I've trialed in to put on a trial during bird season. No one would attend. They're bird hunting.

Birdogz wrote: "Why not compete by testing your ability to close the deal with the shot? I view my dogs and myself as a team. I have to do MY part as well. I think those timed tests where they shoot 3 birds and have to have them retrieved look the most fun."

...Today there are a number of pros force breaking competitive dogs to retrieve in NSTRA or other shooting preseve shoot events.
...One of the early outstanding pointing dog trainers, bird hunter extrordinaire, field trial competitor (won his first field trial in 1876), book author and sporting dog magazine correspondent, C. B Whitford wrote in his 1908 classic "Training the Bird Dog."
"For many years retrieving has not been required at field trials (before 1890). Retrieving, however, is properly barred at field trials inasmuch as it is an artificial quality. The poorest dog for a trial might be made the best retriever.
The first matter ever published in this country on forcing setters and pointers to retrieve was written by the writer for Arnold Burger's book in 1874.
The system of force worked out and laid down many years ago is in all essential respects the same as that used in all works on retrieving"

ElhewPointer wrote: "But hey, you have a dog like Sir Lancelot that came from hunting dog stock."

...I never would consider him coming from hunting dog stock. In his immediate pedigree some of the winningest shoot to retrieve champions and above that some of the field trial's greatest horseback champions.

Dave Quint wrote: "Instead of thinking of this as "hunters versus trialers", how 'bout thinking about this as "hunters who don't trial versus hunters who do trial"?
Always been curious as to why trialers are not considered hunters......."

...Hit the ball on the head Dave, Ditto....

Grouse Dog Guy · Post by **Grouse Dog Guy** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:37 pm

Dirtysteve wrote:
Oh by the way not a single one of the trialers and I know perhaps 4 maybe 5 of them hunts because they are too busy trialing
One trialer here who hunts his "trial" dogs once every week. Every trialer I know here in Utah hunts his dogs and does it a lot. The few others I know throughout the western states also hunt their dogs.
Maybe it's a east of Utah thing to not hunt trial dogs???

Here in the east I don't know of any cover dog trialers that don't hunt the snot out of the dogs they trial.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:43 pm

Grouse Dog Guy wrote:
Dirtysteve wrote:
Oh by the way not a single one of the trialers and I know perhaps 4 maybe 5 of them hunts because they are too busy trialing
One trialer here who hunts his "trial" dogs once every week. Every trialer I know here in Utah hunts his dogs and does it a lot. The few others I know throughout the western states also hunt their dogs.
Maybe it's a east of Utah thing to not hunt trial dogs???
Here in the east I don't know of any cover dog trialers that don't hunt the snot out of the dogs they trial.

Hmm so we have the east covered and the west, how about central? I'm begining to think that whoever told him that trial guys don't hunt was in the minority

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:52 pm

Here we go with the touchy part again. You guys sure know how to take a specific comment and turn it into a broad generalization faster than a politician. I said the field trialers I know don't hunt. I never said anything about all field trialers not hunting. I related an experience of my own to the post and it got turned into something bigger than what it was intended to be. Some of you guys make me feel like I am talking to my wife which I try at all costs to avoid. That is why I get on here, to escape that.

Worse than a bunch of cackling hens. Perhaps I should join a quilting circle or knitting club with you guys.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:00 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:Here we go with the touchy part again. You guys sure know how to take a specific comment and turn it into a broad generalization faster than a politician. I said the field trialers I know don't hunt. I never said anything about all field trialers not hunting. I related an experience of my own to the post and it got turned into something bigger than what it was intended to be. Some of you guys make me feel like I am talking to my wife which I try at all costs to avoid. That is why I get on here, to escape that. Worse than a bunch of cackling hens. Perhaps I should join a quilting circle or knitting club with you guys.

Tommy,

Why say it then if you don't intend to infer something.

Trying to have a conversation with you is like trying to talk with my wife!

It's all good though 'cause we're just a bunch of hunters chewin' the fat around the fire. Did I say "fire"? This discussion hasn't burst into flames yet.

proudag08 · Post by **proudag08** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:02 pm

http://www.tkga.com/

...you're welcome...

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:13 pm

JKP wrote:Heh...ya know what...this is all balderdash...because if every dog owner brought out every dog, campaigned it and promoted it, the whole dog world would look real different...real different. We all ought to thank the complacent masses that we can sit around and discuss how great and important we are. Think about it....

The majority in the whole dog world consists of hunters, the majority of all the dogs born in the whole dog world do not come from field trial champions so exactly what is it you think would look real different? You are the only one that has commented on how great & important you think you are. No one else has laid out that claim.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:16 pm

I will say this, when I have hunted with FT guys in SD it allows me to kill more birds.

Oh, I shouldn't have told the truth.

Gotta love group limits!

Easy fellas, we have all done it.

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:24 pm

Pretty well every time the ducks are flying, we get a doz, I get 0. As long the dog gets worked I am happy, it would be nice to learn to shoot someday though. Honestly I missed a grouse sitting in a tree branch with a 12 gauge from 15 feet, gun up and ready to go for like 10 seconds, he just got up with the shot and laughed his way to god knows where. My old man always say's the birds are safe when I'm in the woods.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:30 pm

Dirtysteve wrote:
Oh by the way not a single one of the trialers and I know perhaps 4 maybe 5 of them hunts because they are too busy trialing
One trialer here who hunts his "trial" dogs once every week. Every trialer I know here in Utah hunts his dogs and does it a lot. The few others I know throughout the western states also hunt their dogs.
Maybe it's a east of Utah thing to not hunt trial dogs???

Really? You say this SOBER! Really!
I promise you there is/was a few that would not hunt til the dog was finished! Heard that with my own ears... In amazment I might say also!

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:33 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:Here we go with the touchy part again. You guys sure know how to take a specific comment and turn it into a broad generalization faster than a politician. I said the field trialers I know don't hunt. I never said anything about all field trialers not hunting. I related an experience of my own to the post and it got turned into something bigger than what it was intended to be. Some of you guys make me feel like I am talking to my wife which I try at all costs to avoid. That is why I get on here, to escape that. Worse than a bunch of cackling hens. Perhaps I should join a quilting circle or knitting club with you guys.

No fear pard.... I have trialed, I have hunted... And I know many trialers that do not hunt the dog they are trying to finish. Until it is finished they train, and train and trial....

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:12 pm

Most FT guys don't have seasoned pheasant dogs. That I am sure about.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:13 pm

TAK wrote:
Dirtysteve wrote:
Oh by the way not a single one of the trialers and I know perhaps 4 maybe 5 of them hunts because they are too busy trialing
One trialer here who hunts his "trial" dogs once every week. Every trialer I know here in Utah hunts his dogs and does it a lot. The few others I know throughout the western states also hunt their dogs.
Maybe it's a east of Utah thing to not hunt trial dogs???

Really? You say this SOBER! Really!
I promise you there is/was a few that would not hunt til the dog was finished! Heard that with my own ears... In amazment I might say also!

Yeah there probably is a few but I'm not one

Here we go with the touchy part again. You guys sure know how to take a specific comment and turn it into a broad generalization faster than a politician. I said the field trialers I know don't hunt. I never said anything about all field trialers not hunting. I related an experience of my own to the post and it got turned into something bigger than what it was intended to be. Some of you guys make me feel like I am talking to my wife which I try at all costs to avoid. That is why I get on here, to escape that. Worse than a bunch of cackling hens. Perhaps I should join a quilting circle or knitting club with you guys.

I'm just havin some fun with ya

I really don't care if one guy hunts them and another doesn't. I do what I do cause I like it and I'm not changing. Do what you like and be happy. Who cares what others do.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:16 pm

I just wanted to make sure you guys didn't think I was trying to belittle trialers cause I'm not but at least you understood what I was trying to get at.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:24 pm

You are the only one that has commented on how great & important you think you are. No one else has laid out that claim.

Please quote me where I have said

how great & important

I think I am. Do it now or hold your mouth. I'm waiting...

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:02 pm

Birdogz wrote: "Most FT guys don't have seasoned pheasant dogs. That I am sure about. "

You might be surprised. There are field trial dogs started, trained, and broke on pheasant. Do you know of the Pheasant Futurity, the Pheasant Championships both amateur and open and the restricted breed stakes run for years on the long tailed birds? Do you know of the many pros that have their training camps, some passed down for decades in some of the best pheasant country, starting young pups and finishing their older dogs and hunting strings on the gaudy birds? Do you know how many field trialers/bird hunters make the traditional yearly sojourn back out from other parts of the country to kill their limit over their dogs?

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:21 pm

gunner wrote:Birdogz wrote: "Most FT guys don't have seasoned pheasant dogs. That I am sure about. "

You might be surprised. There are field trial dogs started, trained, and broke on pheasant. Do you know of the Pheasant Futurity, the Pheasant Championships both amateur and open and the restricted breed stakes run for years on the long tailed birds? Do you know of the many pros that have their training camps, some passed down for decades in some of the best pheasant country, starting young pups and finishing their older dogs and hunting strings on the gaudy birds? Do you know how many field trialers/bird hunters make the traditional yearly sojourn back out from other parts of the country to kill their limit over their dogs?

Here is where the fun begins...

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:31 pm

Dirtysteve wrote:Oh by the way not a single one of the trialers and I know perhaps 4 maybe 5 of them hunts because they are too busy trialing

One trialer here who hunts his "trial" dogs once every week. Every trialer I know here in Utah hunts his dogs and does it a lot. The few others I know throughout the western states also hunt their dogs.
Maybe it's a east of Utah thing to not hunt trial dogs???[/quote]

Really? You say this SOBER! Really!
I promise you there is/was a few that would not hunt til the dog was finished! Heard that with my own ears... In amazment I might say also![/quote]
Yeah there probably is a few but I'm not one

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:39 pm

JKP wrote:
You are the only one that has commented on how great & important you think you are. No one else has laid out that claim.
Please quote me where I have said
how great & important
I think I am. Do it now or hold your mouth. I'm waiting...

Here you go... you are the only one that said it. No one else laid claim to being great and important .... "you" are included in the "we" of your statement.

JKP wrote:We all ought to thank the complacent masses that we can sit around and discuss how great and important we are.