Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

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broker251979
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Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:42 pm

Well My and my fathers year old English pointer has been at the trainer in west Texas for 5 months. WE spoke with the guy on monday and we arranged for me to pick the dog up this saturday. Thursday morning at 6 am az time He called to inform us that he needed to take the dog to the vet it was sick. Around noon the vet called and said the dog had severe kidney failure and needed to be put down. The trainer offered to make things right by letting us pick any pup we wanted? Correct me if im wrong but i feel that he owes more than a puppy. Keep in mind We have paid 600 a month for the last 4 months and a final 750 for him to take the dog with them to South Dakota. I feel he owes me either our money back or a fully trained year old dog. ( Although any other dog is not my dog daughter of N.C Lesters Snowatch. Just wondering what you all think Any input would be appreciated. P>S my step sister loved that dog and I have the dogs sister in great health and she is a major Field trial Prospect!
Last edited by broker251979 on Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by tommyboy72 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:44 pm

What you are asking does not sound unfair to me.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:02 pm

If it was his fault then you may be right. However, I doubt if he had anything to do with your dog having a kidney problem and if that is true he is making a generous offer in giving you a pup. It is not his responsibility to insure that you send him healthy pups to train and if he is responsible for the health of every dog he gets then I thik the cost is going to go up.

The deciding factor is whose fault is it that the pup had kidney problems, the breeder, the owner, or the trainer. Prove which one and then we can discuss who owes who.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:15 pm

OK My dog had a full check up and was given all her shots before she left in march she was fine this monday and the day before im supposed to pick her up this?? Sounds fishy enough. He (the trainer was also the breeder i Bought my pup from as well. thx for your response!

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:21 pm

Let me also add and take with a grain of salt the vet there in TX did say Verbatim "If I didnt know this dog was confined in a Kennel I would say it was poisoned"

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:22 pm

By the way ezzy what a small world I was born and raised in Dixon ILL until i was 13 years old and we moved out here to Phoenix!

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by asc » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:32 pm

I'd be asking that man some questions, in person. I don't know about fishy but I'd want to see his face. my .02
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ACooper » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:45 pm

Is the breeder/trainer reputable?

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by dog dr » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:56 pm

is it too late to have the vet send the kidneys to a pathologist??

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:59 pm

well from what i heard before hand was all good and he has a lot of good dogs that come out of his kennel but let me say the man did not call me one time the whole five months to let me know how the dog was coming along no pics no vids nothing I had to track him down and ask questions he said nothing positive stuff like well the dog is wild( NO SH*t she was an english pointer), She jumps on me I dont like that. Maybe you pet her too much, last update when i called he said the dog aint no whirl wind but you should have no problem hunting her?? Regardless I dont want to sit on here bashing his way off doing thingsim just trying to figure out what to expect I sent him a healthy dog. No sickness such as parvo or anything like that was found by the vet that put her down just kidney failure and the comment if I didnt know this dog was confined id say it was poisoned.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:01 pm

Yes irt is too late his vet said that they could not hold the dog til I got there and they needed to creemate the dog for another 150 dollars

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by dog dr » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:05 pm

a confined dog can still be poisoned. and no dog has kidney failure so bad it HAS to be put down. its always worth at least a couple days on fluids, even though the chance of recovery might be very small. i agree, the whole thing sounds fishy to me. tough to prove though. histopathology on the kidneys sure would be nice.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by dog dr » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:08 pm

broker251979 wrote:Yes irt is too late his vet said that they could not hold the dog til I got there and they needed to creemate the dog for another 150 dollars

i would have to call BULLShit on that one. now it really sounds fishy. no reason they coldnt hold the dog. AND, if they made the decision to euthanze without you, then i think you really have a beef.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:22 pm

dog dr wrote:
broker251979 wrote:Yes irt is too late his vet said that they could not hold the dog til I got there and they needed to creemate the dog for another 150 dollars

i would have to call BULLShit on that one. now it really sounds fishy. no reason they coldnt hold the dog. AND, if they made the decision to euthanze without you, then i think you really have a beef.

I agree with this. I would insist on an explanation.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:07 pm

well let me just say this sucks
Last edited by broker251979 on Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by Sharon » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:23 pm

broker251979 wrote:Let me also add and take with a grain of salt the vet there in TX did say Verbatim "If I didnt know this dog was confined in a Kennel I would say it was poisoned"
Poisonous stuff in the field while training or blue algae I'd bet.
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by prairiefirepointers » Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:05 am

Sorry to hear about your loss. That is a real bummer. I agree with tcjack.. Take his offer on the dog, and do with it what you want, keep it or sell it or something.

I would be asking this guy some tough questions nonetheless. In court however, you might have something if they euthenized the dog without your consent. I would be demanding the veterinary reports to review, a statement from the trainer, and anyone else who had a part in the ordeal.

Wishing you the best of luck getting this sorted out.
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ESetterLove » Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:52 am

OK...something is off on this one. Who is the trainer? Someone had to give consent to have this dog put down...did you give consent or the trainer? If you did, why? You said the vet called you so I will assume you did unless you say different. If you put so much money into this dog why would you consent withought asking every measure be taken before putting the pup down? Why would you just give up the fight and not insist a necropsy be done at the very least? It would have been in your best intrest if you gave a darn. ;) (cant use the word I want)

Dog Dr. is right. Just because a pup shows signs of Kindney failure does not mean certain death. I don't know any DVM that would not wait for the owner to arrive before putting any dog down.... and add insult to injury by demanding money for cemation.Creamtion is not all that common. Most prefer to bury their beloved in a place they loved to run. No offence, but your story does not add up.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by tommyboy72 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:51 am

I would darn sure ask for the ashes to make dang sure there was a dog to creamate and not just a scam to sell the dog to another client because perhaps it did turn out to be a good dog. I am always suspicious of people but that may be because I work at a jail for a county that sends more people to prison and has more felonies than any other county in Oklahoma including OKC or Tulsa. We are leaps and bounds above all other counties in Oklahoma in those respects so I deal with dirt bags on a daily basis. Something does sound off about this whole situation. I would try and speak to some other people who have had dealings with this man either as a trainer or breeder and see if they had anything happen to them that was also odd. Chances are you are going to find other oddities about different situations with other clients. Maybe not the same thing that happened to you but other odd things. Good luck remedying the situation and I would not give up on this you invested too much money to call it a lesson learned. At least get something for your time and troubles. JMO

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by SubMariner » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:12 am

ESetterLove wrote:OK...something is off on this one. Who is the trainer? Someone had to give consent to have this dog put down...did you give consent or the trainer? If you did, why? You said the vet called you so I will assume you did unless you say different. If you put so much money into this dog why would you consent withought asking every measure be taken before putting the pup down? Why would you just give up the fight and not insist a necropsy be done at the very least? It would have been in your best intrest if you gave a darn. ;) (cant use the word I want)

Dog Dr. is right. Just because a pup shows signs of Kindney failure does not mean certain death. I don't know any DVM that would not wait for the owner to arrive before putting any dog down.... and add insult to injury by demanding money for cemation.Creamtion is not all that common. Most prefer to bury their beloved in a place they loved to run. No offence, but your story does not add up.
Yup, there are a lot of questions an very little in the way of answers. The OP is right to be getting riled up on this one!

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by dudleysmith » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:19 am

tommyboy72 wrote:I would darn sure ask for the ashes to make dang sure there was a dog to creamate and not just a scam to sell the dog to another client because perhaps it did turn out to be a good dog. I am always suspicious of people but that may be because I work at a jail for a county that sends more people to prison and has more felonies than any other county in Oklahoma including OKC or Tulsa. We are leaps and bounds above all other counties in Oklahoma in those respects so I deal with dirt bags on a daily basis. Something does sound off about this whole situation. I would try and speak to some other people who have had dealings with this man either as a trainer or breeder and see if they had anything happen to them that was also odd. Chances are you are going to find other oddities about different situations with other clients. Maybe not the same thing that happened to you but other odd things. Good luck remedying the situation and I would not give up on this you invested too much money to call it a lesson learned. At least get something for your time and troubles. JMO

thought the same...a crappy dog could have changed places with this one.....i am betting the dog in question is still alive...

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by snips » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:28 am

Did the vet call you or the trainer? I would speak to the vet and get copies of paperwork showing blood test results. I would not think a vet would mislead you, hopefully not the trainer either, but I have heard strange things. I had one of my puppy buyers call me yesterday and tell me he had his pup at a trainers (in Tx) only 4 1/2 mo old...Was tied in his truck and jumped over the side and hung himself....I am still sick...What trainer could be that "bleep" stupid? You hear everything... :evil:
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by Hotpepper » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:15 am

Hot in West Texas, I would bet on the dog getting too hot and his kidney's shutting down. That is why so many trainers go north in the summer, the cool of the Dakota's

I agree that more is owed that just another dog. Get copy of records from Vet.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by Sharon » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:53 am

snips wrote:Did the vet call you or the trainer? I would speak to the vet and get copies of paperwork showing blood test results. I would not think a vet would mislead you, hopefully not the trainer either, but I have heard strange things. I had one of my puppy buyers call me yesterday and tell me he had his pup at a trainers (in Tx) only 4 1/2 mo old...Was tied in his truck and jumped over the side and hung himself....I am still sick...What trainer could be that "bleep" stupid? You hear everything... :evil:

That is terrible Brenda ; I am so sorry, knowing how much work goes into breeding a fine pup. No excuse for that kind of thoughtlessness. :(
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:41 am

Hotpepper wrote:Hot in West Texas, I would bet on the dog getting too hot and his kidney's shutting down. That is why so many trainers go north in the summer, the cool of the Dakota's

I agree that more is owed that just another dog. Get copy of records from Vet.

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This what I wondered too. Heat stroke! But the whole thing sounds strange the further into we get.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by dudleysmith » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:13 am

The odd thing is why did this happen on the last day?


How do you know for sure that you really talked to a vet?
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by BigShooter » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:17 am

Wow,

Just like in those old Westerns .... the lynch mob is is building to a fever pitch without a complete set of facts.
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by tommyboy72 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:30 am

Possibility that the dog got into some anti-freeze as well. Doesn't that make the kidneys shut down?

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:42 am

I'm betting the dog got loose, and bred Miss kitty's Pug, she got mad shot the dog, and then called, pretending to be a vet and said the dog died of kidney failure brought on by lead poisoning and she had to cremate the body to do away with the evidence.

On the other hand it is rather hard hearted to be making fun out of a dog dying. But all of the theories sure leads you down that path.
Just maybe the dog died of kidney failure through no ones fault but unless the owner makes the effort to find out for sure what happened we willnever know and it sounds like he has already checked out.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by prairiefirepointers » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:48 am

Tommy- Yes it does.. There is an Ethelyne Glycol test for that tho. However, without the dog its impossible now.

I would be finding out IF you really talked to a legit vet or not, getting paperwork, and some start doing my own homework. There is absolutely no way I would just say "okay, you win.. Lesson learned" No way in heck, would I just walk away.
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:52 am

Broker,
Having trained a few more than a couple gun dogs, I was not going to comment on your problems with this particular trainer/breeder. However
it always bothers me greatly when something like this happens. I train Grouse dogs and carry insurnce on my training facility for just this type of incident, although I have never had to use it.
You might want to ask this breeder trainer if he carries insurance on his training facility, if has the right insurance, he is going to get paid by the insurance company for the loss of the aminal and for the Vet bills. Further I suggest you take the pick of one of this breeders/trainers litters, if you like his dogs. Train the dog your self,
walking away from the incident is a bad idea. Further if this Vet and the breeder/trainer put your dog down, with out your permission they are in trouble and they know it.
However most of the trainers today have you sign documents when you leave your dog at their facility for training, in these documents some trainer/breeders have a clause giving them full authority to make medical decissions, which even includes putting the dog down if necessary. If you happened to sign a contract with this
garbage in the contract, you actually have no recourse. Sir you have learned a very hard lesson and what happened to your dog is more than just fishy. I am wondering if your dog was snake bitten while being trained, and no body noticed. If you take another pup and get out this way, I will help you with your animal any way I can, no charge. No matter how famous or how great a mans reputation is, nothing like this should ever happen when you leave your animal in another mans care.
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by tn red » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:28 pm

gpblitz wrote:
BigShooter wrote:Wow,

Just like in those old Westerns .... the lynch mob is is building to a fever pitch without a complete set of facts
I Agree.

The breeder could owe you a pup if the kidney failure was genetic. Anything beyond that is between you and the breeder/trainer. The Vet holds the answers, Not everybody on this board
Call the vet,go visit the vet im sure there is paper work on this clinic visit.Things like this happen but usally the trainer,owner,vet are on the same page before anything is done or it is in horses.Find out whos fault it is or if it was just a fluke.Sorry for your loss that bites.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by Duane M » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:40 pm

Sure like to see DNA on this guys next winning dog, lots and LOTS of dirty poll in the dog biz and this is just another example of the kind of crap I saw over the years dealing with so called reputable trainers. Ya could name names but course if ya did I am sure some fan boy would come on and defend him. Thats the nature of the web boards, always someone who will come on and defend the big name "reputable" trainers no matter how bad the issue, seen it time and time again. Myself I would have the SOB in court ASAP as well as his so called vet he uses with every piece of paperwork ya can get, just make "bleep" sure the judge aint FT connected in any way.

So sorry about the loss of your dog man, it honestly tears me up to read these type of storys, cause I know so much could be prevented.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by Tall Boy » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:36 pm

For them to make a call to put this dog down there has to be a paper trail, at least something saying the "vet" actually saw the dog. This would easy enough to check, and if it turns out no vet was invovled, well then you know the trainer is up to something.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by tommyboy72 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:53 pm

Well a lot of training has to do with word of mouth. It doesn't matter how nice a website you have or how many awards you have or even how nice your dogs are. What does matter is what clients tell other people about you, your business, and the way you do things. If you do find out something was amiss then you tell this person and that person tells another person and so on and so on until he either makes it right with you or goes out of business. I would make "bleep" sure you have your facts straight before you do or say anything though. I would also like to hear the end of this story so when you do get all of the facts and you do make a decision about what to do, I for one really hope you post what happened. Please let us know if the vet was involved as well if there was something going on. I am sort of interested in how this is going to turn out. Please don't just let this slide though something needs to be found out for sure or if there is something going on this person may do this to more people in the future. If this was on the up and up then this trainer needs to be let off the hook by the members of this forum.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by birddogger » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:14 pm

I am more than just a little suspicious of this whole story and probably will be until some of the questions are answered. Hopefully, I am wrong, but things just don't add up.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ESetterLove » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:40 pm

I actually don't buy this guy's story.. Things in his post don't add up right. He stated the dog has been with the trainer for 5 months and he was sent in March. 5 months from March would be July. I can only go by what he wrote so unless he says diferent I believe what he posted. He also said he paid extra to send the dog north to SD....just about every trainer from the south arrives in July and is just thinking about heading back south right now. That would mean the dog has been with the trainer for 7 months not 5. He never said where the dog was when it was put down. Said he paid $750 to send the dog north...seems low for 2 months but he might have made a deal with the trainer if he was going to field trial the pup. But still the dates don't add up..

I also don't buy the fact that he makes a big deal about how much money he put into the pup and how loved he was...but was so quick to roll over and accept the pup needed to be put down no questions asked. Considering he just joined, claims to have champion dogs and this is his first and only post here......not buying it until I hear different! Heck! I would even be willing to call the Vet and track the paper trail if he provides more info! Sure wish he would post an update but I predict he wont be back. There are just too many holes in his story.

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ESetterLove » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:42 pm

HaHa Charlie! I type to slow and got called away for a while but I started my reply before your post. We might be thinking the same thing?

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by birddogger » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:43 pm

ESetterLove wrote:I actually don't buy this guy's story.. Things in his post don't add up right. He stated the dog has been with the trainer for 5 months and he was sent in March. 5 months from March would be July. I can only go by what he wrote so unless he says diferent I believe what he posted. He also said he paid extra to send the dog north to SD....just about every trainer from the south arrives in July and is just thinking about heading back south right now. That would mean the dog has been with the trainer for 7 months not 5. He never said where the dog was when it was put down. Said he paid $750 to send the dog north...seems low for 2 months but he might have made a deal with the trainer if he was going to field trial the pup. But still the dates don't add up..

I also don't buy the fact that he makes a big deal about how much money he put into the pup and how loved he was...but was so quick to roll over and accept the pup needed to be put down no questions asked. Considering he just joined, claims to have champion dogs and this is his first and only post here......not buying it until I hear different! Heck! I would even be willing to call the Vet and track the paper trail if he provides more info! Sure wish he would post an update but I predict he wont be back. There are just too many holes in his story.
Agreed.

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:26 pm

well first of all the original question was is it fair to ask for either a trained dog or money back. Second the dog went to South Dakota in August and actually the trainer chose to come back a week early. My Father the co owner of the dog paid for the training and the trip to south Dakota Hence he had to make all the split second decisions in the end. To clarify the dog went to the Vet around 6AM az time which was 8am tx time Thursday morning The vet called got permission to run tests and hydrate the dog with IV's Then called back a few hours later and said the dog was having severe kidney failure wanted to know what we wanted to do. We asked what is the prognosis The vet Stated well im not sure of the cause but if I did not know the dog was confined id say it was poisoned..... Then my father asked what the vet thought we should do she (the vet said I would put the dog down )I agree my father never should I have put the dog down but that is besides the point now and Definetly should have had an autopsy done I am not lying about this gentleman and a lot of confusion happends between my father and mother telling me what transpired bottom line is we sent the guy a healthy dog in May excuse my mistake saying march. august was month 4 when they headed to south Dakota By the way the guy still has not called us one time since thursday and he will be hearing from an attorney this coming week thanks for all the replies and im sorry you think im lying And also I said I had other dogs that I have trained myself and never did I say they were champions They are awesome hunting dogs but I have never field trialed them. Happy hunting gents and for those who care for the update I will stay in touch and let you all know the outcome

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:30 pm

To clarify further the dog was a female not a male. The dog was in texas at the vet when they said she needed to be put down

ESetterLove

Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ESetterLove » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:36 pm

Thanks for the update. Would you be willing to P.M. me the name of the trainer? Or perhaps the Vet clinic your dog was sent to?

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by broker251979 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:22 pm

Now this is going to sound Insane but my dad does not want me to say any names and honestly he wants me to erase this whole thread but I feel this guy has done something wrong by at least not offering to train a new pup from the same line and like I said before the thread became something it should not have I figured this happends some times and was trying to figure out what to expect if anything compensation wise. If I had total control I would have said im coming to tx with IV bags and bringing the dog home. If the dog passed I would then have brought it to the vet here in AZ for and autopsy to see what caused it being poison,genetics,parvo anything What happend, happend were gonna talk with the man this week and if he doesnt make it right we will take it further. Due to our actions in the heat of the moment the dog was put down and cremated.(I KNOW BADDDDD CHOICE) So none of us honestly will ever know why the dog needed to be put down other than kidney failure everyone is right there should have been an autopsy. But to be fair the vet was certainly rushing us. I do however want to thank you for offering to investigate because me being the son I have to obey my dads wishes or I would be investigating further myself. I.E call the vet call the trainer and demand some answers!

ESetterLove

Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by ESetterLove » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:47 pm

broker251979 wrote:Now this is going to sound Insane but my dad does not want me to say any names and honestly he wants me to erase this whole thread but I feel this guy has done something wrong by at least not offering to train a new pup from the same line and like I said before the thread became something it should not have I figured this happends some times and was trying to figure out what to expect if anything compensation wise. If I had total control I would have said im coming to tx with IV bags and bringing the dog home. If the dog passed I would then have brought it to the vet here in AZ for and autopsy to see what caused it being poison,genetics,parvo anything What happend, happend were gonna talk with the man this week and if he doesnt make it right we will take it further. Due to our actions in the heat of the moment the dog was put down and cremated.(I KNOW BADDDDD CHOICE) So none of us honestly will ever know why the dog needed to be put down other than kidney failure everyone is right there should have been an autopsy. But to be fair the vet was certainly rushing us. I do however want to thank you for offering to investigate because me being the son I have to obey my dads wishes or I would be investigating further myself. I.E call the vet call the trainer and demand some answers!
Curious that you edited your original post...I guess that's your story and yer stickin to it.....or not...or maybe it was this way...oh wait! It actually was this story. Your original post indicated you were the sole owner and made the ultimate decicion. Sure hope you win the fight! But what would it hurt if you sent more info in a P.M.? Your Daddy never said you were not allowed to do that. Just told you to delete the original. I wish you luck and would be happy to help if you need it. If my dog trainer ever called me at that hour to relay such devestating news....My butt would be in the pickup faster than my Setter's run to assess the situation in person. But that's just me I guess. :roll:

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by Fish 4-5 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:49 am

Without anymore facts than provided I call BS. No Vet. Name,No Breeder Name. Hard to argue facts although many (lawyers)try. If my Vet needed to put my year old dog down there better be a comprihensive report filled out on file.

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daniel77
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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by daniel77 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:04 am

It seems that there is an awful lot of finger pointing going on without nearly enough reason for it. We can have no idea what may or may not have happened, and all of our opinions are just that, opinions. I've trained horses for most of my life, and while I've never had one die or get seriously hurt while in my care (knock on wood), I've darn sure had a few get hurt. Never have I had a customer expect me to pay the vet bill, or replace an animal with another animal. Of course, they haven't ever been cut/hurt because I went after them with a machete/2X4, either. That being said, if things don't go as they should, my fault or not, I always try and do what I can to make things work out smoothly. It is entirely possible that this went down just exactly as the OP stated. Noting his particular way of writing, he may just not be very good at expressing all that he wants to in written form, just as he means to, or in a way that satisfies the masses. It is also entirely possible that the trainer in question did nothing wrong, although I admit, that the story smells fishy, as it has been presented.

I wouldn't think that the trainer bears any responsibility to do anything at all, unless he caused the dog to die, either by negligence, or directly. If you can't prove, or at least get a really good idea that he's directly responsible (maybe there's a pattern, and others have lost dogs in a similar manner), then it may have just been a Good Will gesture on the trainer's part to offer you another pup, if he was the breeder also. Again, unless you know that it's his fault, moreso than he merely had the dog at the time it got sick, then I'd say that he owes you nothing. What if your dog died from a vaccine preventable disease, because your vet had the vacs. out on the counter too long 8 months ago? We live in a lawsuit happy society where people too easily want to pass the buck and not own up to bad things happening to them and paying the consequences. In fact, I no longer take on customers who are lawyers, because they are ALWAYS a PITA. Being in the animal business, or even just buying a pup and hoping it will make a nice hunting companion, is, and always will be somewhat of a gamble. Would you be mad if a trainer (who wasn't also the breeder) had returned the dog healthy, but talentless and still charged you, assuming that he had done his part with what he had to work with?
Two cannibals were eating a clown. One looks up at the other and says, "Does this taste funny to you?"

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Re: Year old pup dies of kidney failure while being trained

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:40 am

Gentlemen,
The poster of this thread seems to be fairly young, he may be having trouble getting his intire incident presented, we really do not know what actually happened in this situation, that is why I answered his question as I did, in my prior post. Most times the documents sign by the owner spell out what the breeder/trainer is required to do when the dog is in the breeder/trainers care. However the one thing that really stands out, is that the breeder/trainer will not return the owners calls.
Finger pointing does no one any good, at this point it seems the young man and his father have made a decission to get a Lawyer involved. If the young man and his father have their origianl contract documents and they honestly believe there was some problem with this dogs death, our conversation here should come to an end.
It seems to me that when someone comes to this forum looking for advise, he should not be second guessed. The young man was looking for advise, and that is fine.
At this point I do believe his father is probably handeling this problem as he sees fit.
RGD/Dave

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