What are some DD short comings.

[Birddogz]

I have been asked to speak critically about the breed I own, and will do so with no trouble. In fact, I enjoy any topic that analyzes dogs. I think I was asked what traits that DDs have that other pointing breeds don't, or something like that. Well, first of all DDs are sharper on fur than any dog I have been around with the exception of a J. Terrier. It is a pain in the azz when hunting around farms with cats in the yard. It isn't my favorite trait, but it comes with owning a DD, and I wasn't surprised. They are better watch dogs than any pointing breed i have seen with the exception of the Wime. They are a DDs equal in that category. You don't just walk in to a DDs house without proper introductions. That can be a liability to some. My DD is very passive, but not trusting of people she doesn't know. I have been around many DDS that are VERY protective.
As a whole, they don't run big. So if you are looking for a horseback dog, they wouldn't be my first choice. They have probably the most consistent coat of the versatiles, and it allows them to hunt in cold weather easily. On the other side, hot weather is not their friend. DDs for the most part ADORE their owners. Like nothing I have ever seen. This is great when hunting, but at home, sitting in a lazy boy, it can get annoying having a 60 plus pound dog licking you in the face while on your lap. This bond is nice, but at times is down right annoying. Having a dog that stays with you is a positive, being "needy" can be a real drag.
Some DDs track too much at first. Mine did, but after putting her on birds over and over, she no longer does that. She will naturally track wounded birds though. DDs are adequate as waterfowl dogs, but can not perform 4 marks and retrieves at once. I normally shoot no more than 2 ducks per flock, so it really isn't an issue. They are not as hardy as a lab is in the cold. They can do it, but a vest is handy. They aren't as good as a lab on average, but are more than adequate. I have never lost a duck with my DD.
No one knows what the heck you are talking about when you say you own a DD.
Lastly, they don't start out with near as much point as a pointer or setter or GSP. They get it with age, but are not pointing birds as easily as an EP would. My dog is as staunch as they come, but it has taken until she is 2 to get her fully broke, and she will occasionally cheat. Her drive to retrieve is just so great that it messes with her.
I will say that my DD seems to be a very intelligent dog. She figured out fences when she was 4 months old, and she can open up my cooler, and fetch me a beer. Now, that has its down sides. She is a master at stealing food. I thought my Britts were bad, they have nothing on a DD. Relentless pursuit of licking grease out of a pan. She actually has started the stove. She is always kenneled when I am not home.
Lastly, they are very rambunctious and can hurt kids by knocking them over. Heck, they can hurt adults . She is getting better, but DDs don't really know their size, and they love to jump.
There you have it Birddogger. Feel free to add what you like. I won't mind.

[Birddogz]

WHat are the short comings of your breed in your eyes? We often talk about the great things about our breed, how about what is less than stellar in your eyes when it pertains to your breed.

[adogslife]

Birddogz,
how many DDs have you owned,when were you introduced to the breed, what experience do you have with the breed,do you test in the VDD-GNA?

Thanks,
adogslife

[BigShooter]

The initial post was well written. There were lots of good things said about DDs in that thread. The positive flip sides of many of the potential negatives listed were shown to illustrate how a trait can be viewed as both a positive and a negative. The difference between that post and many others is that it contained personal opinion not only about negatives but about positives as well. I saw balance. My experience on this board is that posts like this that contain some balance are received better than others that simply state a breed can't/doesn't ___________ (fill in the blank, work well as a retriever in cold water, handle pheasants properly at the end of the season in cold climates, range close, etc.). The post also was primarily limited to the author's own dog rather than stating or implying all DDs carry that same trait or possess the same behavior(s). I also noted no other prior post in this thread pressuring all owners of DDs to make an admission that all of the breed display the same downsides.

I will make some general observations that you may take pot shots at:

1. Some dogs inherently & by training range short, medium or long. Some dogs inherently & by training vary the range based upon the unique set of circumstances at the time. While a particular line of dogs may have tighter uniformity, generalizations extrapolated from a few dogs to thousands of dogs of a breed is unwarranted or at least precarious.

2. From principles of physics, dogs or breeds that handle cold water the best must handle heat the least. Out of shape dogs are less able to resist pressures from exertion and temperatures. There are breeds that handle both the cold & the heat reasonably well but are not the best at either extreme.

3. Many breeds bred for sharpness on fur have displayed varying tendencies toward humans. Sharpness on fur doesn't always translate to aggression towards humans. It has been noted by many who lived and owned breeds from Germany in the fifties & sixties that trainers and handlers frequently wore heavy leather gloves for protection when working with those breeds at that time. Although that has been noted it does not mean all dogs bred for sharpness on fur are also sharp with strangers or owners. Responsible breeders in the U.S. state they have worked to eliminate any aggressive dogs from their lines. It has been stated German breeders do not allow human aggressive dogs in their lines either. While many of the dogs bred in Germany today are bred & tested for sharpness on fur relatively few (almost zero) U.S. dogs are bred for sharpness on fur today.

4. It has been stated as opinion that natural tracking & retrieve in particular has been ignored in some lines of versatile breeds. Whether true or not there have been no reports of any breed of versatile gun dogs with all dogs of the breed unable to track or retrieve.

5. My own observation is intense pointing as a natural skill varies in individual dogs of any pointing breed. Furthermore the speed of development varies substantially as well. While early mental development in dogs is desirable, late bloomers don't always turn out poorly.

[Birddogz]

Birddogz,
how many DDs have you owned,when were you introduced to the breed, what experience do you have with the breed,do you test in the VDD-GNA?

Thanks,
adogslife

I have only owned one, but have hunted with many. I get most of my information from Jill Manring. She has been breeding DDs for years. I believe 30. I love DDs, but was just commenting on some things that I see in the breed. For me, they are a fantastic dog. My DD is exceptional in the field, and pretty darn good in the marsh. I meant no disrespect to any DD owner, but I think what I say is the truth as I know it, and as it has been explained to me by people who have a ton of experience with the breed.

[JKP]

I bought my first DD in 1971...lived in Germany and Switzerland for 12 years...speak, read, and write German fluently....know DD in Germany pretty well. This is a very hard topic to discuss because there is such a wide range of dogs within the standard/breed.

First the positives...it is difficult to get a DD that will not be a decent foot hunting/versatile dog. The vast majority of dogs I see are limited by the owner/trainer ... not by innate ability...but that goes for most breeds. The single most often misunderstood facet IMO about this breed is that the DD is NOT a typical bird dog. Folks that come from longtails or Labs need to reorient...because with prey drive comes a need for more obedience earlier. Another VERY important aspect of the breed is you train them best through short intense sessions...they will not retrieve a bumper 500 times like a Lab....putting them in front of pen raised birds will bore them quickly...you're better off to take them hunting.

I don't see a lack of pointing in DD...I see more a lack of birds and the chance to develop it. I do see dogs that need more range...but most folks like their dogs closer working. Most well bred dogs will reach more if owners can keep their mouths shut and find a safe place to let the run develop. They are highly trainable and that is what 100 years of testing and breeding regs has stressed....18 month old dogs are steady, FF'ed, doing serious water work, retrieving to hand, handling short blinds, blood tracking and otherwise are more obedient than most other breeds are expected to be by that age (typical of all JGHV breeds). This concentration on early development has led to dogs that are serious and trainable as pups. I have seen big moving DD but the usual range is going to be 50-300 yds, if a dog is given the chance to develop. They are stickier than other breeds...they want to know where you are...not as independent as trial bred breeds IMO.

They have MUCH better temperaments than the dogs I saw in the 70's and 80's. In the last 10 years, I have only seen one truly aggressive display either hunting or training. They will protect the house in most cases...although mine wouldn't push the issue.
Water ability is usually very good...and they are easily trainable to the intermediate level (handling at 150yds or so).

I don't suggest them for hot weather hunting...but mine are conditioned to handle the 70-80 degree days we find in the Dakotas in the fall.

The breed is naturally sharp on predators...but they shouldn't be stupid. Mine will dispatch feral cats but they have bayed and treed bears without injury. Our German colleagues want dogs that can corner hogs not get sliced and diced. DD should be trained to be steady on furred game.

[Birddogz]

Another great post! Many similarities in what we have experienced, obvciously you are more experienced than I am with DDs.

[ezzy333]

Good post JKP. But in all honesty that is almost word for word what I would say about the Brittany and am sure it is very much what a breeder would say about th GSP. GWP, or any other breed. I do think there has been more importance put on the DD as far as hunting fur and it probably shows some what, but for what we need and use in this country it is seldom used by most so too often it is ignored. But you training as compared to a lab is right on for every pointing breed I am familiar with.

Well stated and well written,

Ezzy

[BigShooter]

JKP,

I enjoyed reading your post. I thought it was well written and balanced in approach. Thanks for the contribution.

[Birddogz]

Can anyone tell me the differences in their eyes there are between a DD and a PP. Are PPs as sharp on fur? I have hunted with both, and really can't see much difference. The only difference I see is that the DD coats seem to be more consistent. As hunters, and I have enjoyed both, I see little difference.

[JKP]

Good post JKP. But in all honesty that is almost word for word what I would say about the Brittany

...you mean that cat dispatching and bear treeing too!!! Just kidding you.

I don't see many Britts anymore since my venues are either JGHV or NAVHDA. I wish we did see more Britts "chewing" up the swamp, because I have seen a few that I would take duck hunting anywhere. Bob Owens "Little Rusty" VC dog years back was a powerhouse in the heaviest water. I think the DC has become the sought after title.

Just as an aside, my liver roan bitch comes out of a dog that is almost exclusively used for hog hunting in Germany (few DD will cover as much ground as effortlessly or point/back as staunchly as this bitch does)...yet the results of her sire's pups for both pointing and water work are far above the norm. The East German use their DD more on hogs than anywhere else...but most often the dogs will point hogs in cover...and then be sent to drive out the hogs...remember, that is Germany, and nothing is ever done without a plan or uncontrolled

As far as comparing PP and DD, we need Bill Blathens to check in...he's had both...but I don't know if he is on this forum.

[birddogger]

"There you have it birddoger. Feel free to add what you like. I won't mind."

I have no idea what you are talking about Birddogz. I appreciate the invite, but you must have the wrong guy.

Since I am here though, I will contribute. THEY ARE UGLY DOGS!!!

Charlie

[Birddogz]

I meant Big shooter. Sorry. I was wrong. You have my apologies.

[JKP]

Yeah...they are pretty ugly...but I say that with pride

[mcbosco]

[quote="JKP"]Yeah...they are pretty ugly...but I say that with pride

Definitely not ugly, they have very cool ghostly eyes. Any dog with a beard and bushy eyebrows is just fine with me.

[tn red]

I've never hunted over one & know nothing about the breed but i will say they are tough looking dogs.

[JKP]

Ghostly??....like this??

[birddogger]

Yeah...they are pretty ugly...but I say that with pride

Definitely not ugly, they have very cool ghostly eyes. Any dog with a beard and bushy eyebrows is just fine with me.

Just for the record, I was kidding. I like'm all.

Charlie

[mcbosco]

Yeah...they are pretty ugly...but I say that with pride

Definitely not ugly, they have very cool ghostly eyes. Any dog with a beard and bushy eyebrows is just fine with me.

Just for the record, I was kidding. I like'm all.

Charlie

http://www.gundogdoc.com/library/draht.html

like this

[jbo]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no ugly dog here, just hairy.

Back when mine was 10 weeks old.

[mcbosco]

P1000157.JPG

They all look like Spinone to me. This is mine at about 11-12 weeks,

[ACooper]

Yeah...they are pretty ugly...but I say that with pride

That is a fine looking animal.