What to do about an aggressive dog?

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caleb
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What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by caleb » Thu May 13, 2010 11:17 am

This morning I was out hiking with my 16 week old golden retriever puppy in one of our usual spots. Although it's in an urban area and leashes are required by law, this area is very little travelled and most people I come across don't have their dogs on a leash. It's a large swampy area, so lots of guys use it for dog training.

As we're walking this morning I see two dogs coming down the trail toward us. I called my dog and leashed him. The other owner made no effort to call his dogs, so I thought they must be well mannered. Both dogs coming toward us are full grown, probably lab mixes, but didn't really look like hunting dogs to me.

Both dogs surrounded my pup and one tore into him, clamped down on my pup's hind end, and didn't let go until I kicked him with all my might. The dog then reeled, turned, and came at me snarling and baring his teeth. He lunged at me and I kicked him in the head. I believe the dog would have bit me if I hadn't kicked him. The entire time I have no recollection of the owner doing anything, or even running toward us to help.

I dropped my leash in the scuffle, and my pup ran the mile or so back to the car without stopping. I ran after him, made sure he was okay, then waited for the owner of the other dogs. I'll spare you the details of our conversation and just say that this guy's version of personal responsibility is probably a lot different than most of ours. I didn't make any headway, but I did put the guy on notice that I'm not going to tolerate his dogs menacing in public and that I'll defend both myself and my dog with an eye toward preventing it from ever happening again.

I'm new at raising a dog in an urban area where you're sharing lots of space with other dogs. To those who have more experience in this area, what could I have done differently or better? If I was out hunting I would have shot the dog when he came at me without a second thought. But what does a guy do in a place where that's not a reasonable remedy? I've already filed a police report, but I highly doubt anything will come of it.

Perhaps more importantly, how should I deal with similar situations in the future? About the last thing I want is my pup fearing other dogs.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by phermes1 » Thu May 13, 2010 11:37 am

It's owners like that that give the rest of us a bad name, and are the reason we have to deal with more and more bad legislation.

I carry a collapsible police baton in my pocket every time I go to a dog park. 90% of the dogs are fine, but it's the 10% with the dumbsh*t owners that concern me.
Bringing a gun is also an option, but let's face it - I don't want to shoot someone's dog, especially in a dog park. That brings on a LOT of drama and a lot of legal issues that I'd rather not deal with. I've never had to use the baton, but I'm pretty sure it would convince most dogs to cease and desist.
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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by wems2371 » Thu May 13, 2010 11:46 am

I have never used it, so I don't know how well it works, but as a utility worker...I was given a can of dog mace. The baton sounds good too. I hope there was no permanent damage done to your pup, and maybe the report filed will convince the owner to be more responsible. I know that's wishful thinking...

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by wannabe » Thu May 13, 2010 12:23 pm

I would do whatever it takes to defend myself and my leashed dog from an aggressive dog, but I would also be prepared to do the same to the dogs owner if he became aggressive. Some people don't like it when you put the boots to their dog whether it deserves it or not. I had two farm dogs come after me while bicycling last week. All I had to defend myself with was my voice and a 22 lb bike. Fortunately the voice stopped both dogs before they were within bike range. Someone suggested pepper spray or mace, but the wind may have blown it right back in my face. I may consider one of these: http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/index.html?r=y
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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by Greg Jennings » Thu May 13, 2010 12:32 pm

What about bear spray. It's pretty directional and intended for longer range.


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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by MikeB » Thu May 13, 2010 1:05 pm

I agree you must be able to take care of yourself and your dog when other dogs like that come along. I have ofter thought about carring a "HOT STICK" like they use to move live stock. Mace works well, I thought Bear spray came in a big can that is hard to carry. I would certainly report this attack to what ever athorities you have in this area, sheriff or animal control.

So was their any damage to your pup?

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by Greg Jennings » Thu May 13, 2010 1:28 pm

MikeB wrote:I agree you must be able to take care of yourself and your dog when other dogs like that come along. I have ofter thought about carring a "HOT STICK" like they use to move live stock. Mace works well, I thought Bear spray came in a big can that is hard to carry. I would certainly report this attack to what ever athorities you have in this area, sheriff or animal control.

So was their any damage to your pup?
Bear spray comes in different size cans. All are obviously oriented toward bear-sized animals.

OTOH, they are intended for people hiking and similar in bear territory. Hiking with your dog can't be too much different.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by dog dr » Thu May 13, 2010 1:33 pm

i like the collapsible police baton idea. i bet that would come in very handy in any kind of attack situation, paople or animals.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by BoJack » Thu May 13, 2010 2:07 pm

Spray bottle of Amonia and water will send them Reeling.
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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by brittnamedbooth » Thu May 13, 2010 7:22 pm

I had a similar incident with my Brittany which is a 2 year old rescue dog who was a hunting dog and new to the suburbs and living inside. He was abandoned one night and chained to the fence of a no-kill shelter her in Atlanta.

We have a 200 acre wooded area of trails along the river in Northern Atlanta next to my neighborhood. I take him on a 50 foot check lead for training daily. As I was next to my car I noticed a lady with two big mixed labs and the brown one would not respond to her commands and directly approached my britt and got to within 2 feet. I had my britt on a leash and harness and he had enough of that aggressive behavior and launched into him with a lunge and barking. They did not make contact, but the brown lab backed off and went over to the lady.

We really had some words. She accused me of having a dog with leash aggression and I pointed out to her, that the signs on this private property specified all dogs must be on leashes. Then the caretaker came up after hearing the argument, and I ask him to tell her about the leash requirement. She said she never saw any signs (they are all over the place) and he pointed to one behind her and then ask her to leave the property.

I will protect my dog from snakes, dogs, coyotes (yes we have them in Atlanta and they have killed cats and smaller dogs) and people. At that time I was carrying a .25 colt automatic which I always carry. But like most, I would not want to have to use it on a dog. The dog's bad manners are the owners fault. I always carry a heavy walking stick.

But the Water and ammonia does work well. I had forgotten about this. When I was a kid with a paper route back in the 50's most dogs ran loose and love to chase the paper boy. I carried a squirt gun with ammonia and water. The dogs on my route remembered some squirting and after about three weeks, If i just pointed my finger at them like a gun, they would take off. It didn't seem to do them an real harm, but wow, it must have hurt their nose for a while. I think I will get a spray bottle with a stream setting for these off leash dog encounters that happen frequently to me.

I think encounters with bad dogs off leashes are more common in the suburbs than in the country. It seems to me that people living in the burbs don't have as much dog sense as do those living in the country where dogs are not only wonderful friends but working dogs as well. I love my britt and long for the day when he will be trained enough to go out it the country off leash and enjoy what he enjoys the most and that is pointing. Even in my 1/2 acre yard, he loves to point birds and squirrels.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by phermes1 » Fri May 14, 2010 6:57 am

dog dr wrote:i like the collapsible police baton idea. i bet that would come in very handy in any kind of attack situation, paople or animals.

I sure wouldn't want to get hit by one. They are SOLID once extended.
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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by caleb » Fri May 14, 2010 3:08 pm

First, thank you all for your concerns about the pup. He was pretty shook up yesterday and hid under the car seats all the way home. I had to carry him from the car to the house. I washed him and thankfully didn't find any puncture wounds. Today he seems to be doing better, and he was his usual irresponsible self on our walk this morning.

My wife is a lawyer, and I had her do a little research on dog attacks yesterday. Basically, in our state and town, if a dog lunges at you and you believe it will seriously injure you (a highly subjective standard), there is no limit on the amount of force that is appropriate in self defense. Put differently, when cases have ended up in court deadly force is generally okay when a dog attacks a person. You can get in trouble, though, if your method of force is itself illegal (i.e. carrying a gun without a permit). Cities and states tend to care way more about a guy with a gun than they do a mean dog. Basically, though, an aggressive, off leash dog has very few protections in a public place.

I'm not interested in carrying a concealed weapon. In fact, I don't even own a handgun. Carrying one in my situation seems like inviting trouble. In a more rural setting I could maybe see it.

As for the baton and mace, I think both seem like reasonable solutions. I used to carry mace when riding my bike in the country, but I never used it. The baton would be a little more of a serious stem it seems to me. If you hit a dog in the head hard with one of the metal ones you may well kill it. I'm not saying that such a step is never justified, but it's a serious step.

Perhaps the easiest idea is a solid walking stick. It's just as deadly as a gun on a dog if you want to use it that way, but it wouldn't be hard to explain to a judge why you had a walking stick in the woods like some of the other alternatives might.

Perhaps the biggest lesson I've learned is to be hyper aware and not trust any dogs I don't know. I'm amazed how many bad ones I run into, both with my dog and without.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by caleb » Fri May 14, 2010 3:26 pm

Oh, and here are some pictures of the pup...
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Last edited by caleb on Fri May 14, 2010 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by caleb » Fri May 14, 2010 3:32 pm

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by big steve46 » Fri May 14, 2010 5:40 pm

If I liven in an urban area (God forbid), I would probably carry an aluminum ball bat. Owners of bad dogs would see that at a distance and probably control their mutts.
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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by MikeB » Fri May 14, 2010 6:22 pm

A walking stick or old golf club works well to. I used to live in a city adjacent to the town Bob Hope lived. Most nights you could find him walking his little dogs on a leash carring his golf club like a walking stick. I don't think he carried it to practice his swing.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by 3Britts » Sat May 15, 2010 5:38 pm

I like the baseball bat idea as the police baton are prohibited by law to police only.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by jcbjr » Sat May 15, 2010 8:47 pm

I also carry an ASP extendable baton when walking/cycling. I usually carry the light weight aluminum one, but steel is available. cutleryshoppe.com has a good selection. One plus is that you can use as much force as needed; sometimes simply snapping it open is enough, while sometimes you have to tee of on the aggressor, human or otherwise. And there is an entire force continuum between these two points. In other words, "apply as needed". Mace, pepper or other, often takes too long to work on dogs, whereas a smack with a baton works immediately. BTW, snapping it open has an effect similar to racking a pump shotgun, psychologically. With any weapon designed as such, check local laws first. A stout walking stick is legal just about anywhere.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by Fish 4-5 » Sun May 16, 2010 6:42 am

It's a tough situation when your not on your own property. The aggressive dog owner should have his dogs on a leash if that's the rule for that area. I think we all want to get our dogs of the leash to run some and that is where the problems start.
I posted a similar confrontation that occured a while back but the differance was that a dog came on my property. Responsible dog oners generaly know if thier dog is aggressive and should take the neccessary precautions. In my case the dog that attacked my pup has been fine around humans but when we showed up with the new pup things went a differant direction.He may have been just showing the new pup the dominance thing but I will not take that chance.
Sounds like you did all you could do having your dog on a leash. The pepper spray sounds like a good idea when your on mutual property but if the dog comes on my property and starts mauling my pup things are not going to end peacefully. That's unfortunate because I hold the owner at fault not the dog. Same holds true for me. If my pup ends up on the other dogs property and gets mauled then that's on me and all my fault.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by phermes1 » Sun May 16, 2010 8:14 pm

3Britts wrote:I like the baseball bat idea as the police baton are prohibited by law to police only.
Depends on your state laws. It is not illegal in Florida to carry one for defensive purposes. No permit required, either.
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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by Birddogz » Sun May 16, 2010 11:59 pm

What about a taser? Would work on the owner and dogs. (If need be.)
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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by birddogger » Mon May 17, 2010 12:49 am

Birddogz wrote:What about a taser? Would work on the owner and dogs. (If need be.)
The taser is a great defense against humans, but it would have to be used a little bit differently on a dog. When you discharge it, the probes hit the target vertically. There are two probes, one hits at the point of aim and the other hits lower.
The wider the space between the two, the more effective it is. The distance is crucial, a little too far away and the lower one may miss [ one probe is ineffective ] or they could hit the end of their line and fly back toward you. Too close and it is less effective. On a dog, you would almost have to have a broadside target and hold the taser sideways to fire the probes horizontally to ensure they both hit the target. Also, the tasers that are available to the public have a really short distance. You could also use it as a stun gun, which may stop an attack, but that would be very risky. I hope this makes sense.

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by LokiandGunnar » Mon May 17, 2010 4:00 pm

I just read on another site that hornet or wasp spray is really good. I have used it for its intended use and agree that it can shoot up to 30 feet and is very directional. The can might be a little big...

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by Crashola » Thu May 20, 2010 1:52 pm

I carry the same thing the USPS carries: http://www.halt.com/halt.html

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Re: What to do about an aggressive dog?

Post by topher40 » Thu May 20, 2010 2:49 pm

Get yourself a hotshot, or even a gun wouldnt hurt anything.
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