Some breed advice

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a145
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Some breed advice

Post by a145 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:45 pm

Hey guys, I've had and trained Labs but, don't have much experience with other breeds. I'm looking for a good all around dog for field and water work, that doesn't shed too much and can also serve as a decent guard dog at the house. I've kind of narrowed my search to German Shorthaired Pointer, Weimaraner, and Pointing Griffon. Any feedback from someone with experience with those breeds on how they would stack up to my criteria, would be appreciated.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by fishvik » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:33 pm

I own a GSP and a lab/gwp cross(just a 12wk pup) now and have owned a lab/pointer cross, a Weim/ches cross and a gwp/ches cross. I live and have hunted waterfowl and upland birds where it goes from the 90's during Sept. to single digit temps in late duck season. From that experience I would say all four (I'm not basing anything on my little pup yet) were good upland dogs with my GSP as my best and the Weim/ches and lab/pointer not far behind. All but the GSP were good duck dogs even late in the season (The GSP just doesn't have enough coat). The gwp/ches was the best watch dog. In my humble opinion the griffon might the best choice if you hunt ducks anywhere where the temps are below freezing for any length of time during the day. The weim and the GSP just don't have enough coat.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by ACooper » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:43 pm

Where are you located? Sounds like a Weim from proven field stock might be right up your alley. Some GSPs make good guard dogs (I have had a few), have had two Weims and both were more than adequate at protecting the house, car, me etc. Contact ZZweims or Cherrystone here on the board if you would like more info about their weims. Also Judy Balog (sp) has had a lot of success in Navhda with Weims.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by BigShooter » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:46 pm

a145 wrote: I've kind of narrowed my search to German Shorthaired Pointer, Weimaraner, and Pointing Griffon.
I have GSPs and their coat is too thin for waterfowling in real cold weather. I'm curious though, why did you rule out the German Wirehaired Pointers?
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Re: Some breed advise

Post by ACooper » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:29 pm

BigShooter wrote:
a145 wrote: I've kind of narrowed my search to German Shorthaired Pointer, Weimaraner, and Pointing Griffon.
I have GSPs and their coat is too thin for waterfowling in real cold weather. I'm curious though, why did you rule out the German Wirehaired Pointers?

I agree the DD or GWP sounds like it would be ideal for what they are looking for.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by zzweims » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:46 pm

I don't know where you're located. Above the mason-dixon line: a gwp/dd, chessie, or weim. Below the mason-dixon line, definately a weim or a thin coated gwp. Just make sure that they come from solid hunting stock.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by birddogger » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:04 pm

I agree that the GWP OR DD {same breed} would be ideal for what you are looking for. As for any breed, just make sure you do your homework first.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by BigShooter » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:28 pm

zzweims wrote:I don't know where you're located. Above the mason-dixon line: a gwp/dd, chessie, or weim.
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I'm just curious, is there anyone on the forum that routinely waterfowls in real cold weather (freezing weather) with their Weim? I'm talking lots of water retrieves from an unheated boat or shore blind into ice cold water with thin ice around the lake or pond edges and in States like MN., WI. & ND.
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Re: Some breed advise

Post by mik » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:45 pm

I've owned/hunted just one Weim on all upland birds...looking back I don't think she would have been handicaped too much duck hunting in COLD weather...she was a larger Weim @ 70+ lbs in shape with a big chest....I would have had a neoprene vest on her if I would have waterfowl hunted with her.....

I think you have too be a little more honest with what you'll do with the dog over the span of it's life and pick a breed from there If they made a "one dog does that it all" we'd all own one :D :D

I think a Weim other than in extreme conditions (25degrees or less doing water retrieves) would do just fine.....

Like someone suggested you just can't beat good advice from breeders...contact a few in each breed you're thinkin about and tell them what you're hopin to do and see if they can help you decide....

You could always get 2 dogs :D Your Duck dog and your upland dog :D

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by dwilson » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:46 pm

I have a vizsla and I imagine it would only be once with that coat which is basically the same as a weim.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by ymepointer » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:21 pm

BigShooter wrote:
zzweims wrote:I don't know where you're located. Above the mason-dixon line: a gwp/dd, chessie, or weim.
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I'm just curious, is there anyone on the forum that routinely waterfowls in real cold weather (freezing weather) with their Weim? I'm talking lots of water retrieves from an unheated boat or shore blind into ice cold water with thin ice around the lake or pond edges and in States like MN., WI. & ND.

I had one about 20 years ago that I duck and goose hunted on the columbia river up until Christmas each year but he was an exceptionally tough and birdy weim and would not quit, I had a wet suit for him but he and I both froze our *&^% off on windy freezing rain type days! I used to duck hunt in the morning and and pheasant hunt in the afternoon on the Umatilla Nat Wildlife refuge and then duck hunt till Christmas once pheasant season ended. That Weim was the worst watch dog I ever saw though :oops: , he wouldn't even bark at strangers coming into my house. I would think a DD would be your most likely choice given your requirements.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by BigShooter » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:26 pm

When I was a kid we'd take our GSP out duck hunting in really cold weather. The dog would be shaking like a leaf after the first retrieve. We'd try to keep him wrapped up in a dry towel in a shore blind but that didn't really work because we couldn't bring enough towels along to dry him off after every retrieve. He didn't die waterfowling & never refused to enter the water but we'd quit hunting so we could get the dog back to the vehicle to warm him up. One brother has a Weim that's about 70 lb. & one of his sons has an even bigger one. Neither of these dogs can hack ice cold waterfowling weather.

If you're going to hunt upland game & waterfowl in relatively warm weather then get a Weim, GSP or a Vizsla. If your hunting is going to involve somewhat cold water retrieves from a boat or a blind get a Brittany, German Wirehaired Pointer/Deutsch Drahthaar or Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. If bitter weather will be involved get another lab or a chessie. Freezing temperatures for upland hunting don't really matter as the dogs move so much they generate enough body heat. We routinely hunt upland with our GSPs when there's a foot & a half of snow on the ground and the temp is below freezing.

As far as guard dogs that really depends more on the individual dog and line of dogs than on the breed of dog. One person will tell you their Weim is no good as a watch dog but I'll tell you that you probably wouldn't survive if you broke into my brother's house and his Weim was loose. It's the same with nearly every breed.
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Re: Some breed advise

Post by sjkennels » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:12 am

i have hunted behind 4 gwp and 1 DD and i gotta say to me the DD stood out the most. just make sure with either breed that you dont have stickers where you are hunting witch is why i have ep and gsp. when i guided with those guys that had those dogs we would have to wait an hour after each field just so he could get the stickers out of there dogs. those poor dogs had hardly any hair on them after 3 days of hunting. now i know nothing about either breed exept from what i saw and was told about those dogs but from my understanding a DD is a all in one dog you get a blood tracker, duck dog, pheasant dog, dove dog, and one that you can hog and coon hunt with. like i said above i know nothing about these breeds just from what i have seen and have been told.
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Re: Some breed advise

Post by ymepointer » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:01 am

BigShooter wrote: As far as guard dogs that really depends more on the individual dog and line of dogs than on the breed of dog. One person will tell you their Weim is no good as a watch dog but I'll tell you that you probably wouldn't survive if you broke into my brother's house and his Weim was loose. It's the same with nearly every breed.
Bigshooter is right, I did not intend to imply that weims make bad guarddogs, was just talking about the one I hunted with. The breed most likely to fit your description is in my opinion a DD but each dog can be different. That weim was unlike any I have seen since. Very abnormal in my experience. To describe how bad he was I once met a guy hunting pheasants at Fern Ridge widlife area outside Eugene OR who ran ESetters and I helped him find one of his lost dogs. To thank me he invited me to hunt the duck opener the next weekend on the refuge as it was by draw and he had drawn a blind. Really once in a lifetime opportunity so I said yes even though I only met him that day. So one week later he was to pick me up at my house at I believe 4 am, I overslept and he knocked on my door then came in seeing it was unlocked and found my bedroom and woke me up. My Weim just layed on his ceder bed and never made a peep. He proved to be worthless as a guard dog but that was great for me because I lived in a duplex and really didn't need nor want a guard dog. Do your homework and good luck. We of course will need pics once you get your pup though :D

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by rkelly » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:00 am

I know two guys with Weims and they would definitely let you know when somebody is there. Where as my experience with shorthairs has been that the only danger they pose to a burglar is being licked to death :lol:

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by BigShooter » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:07 am

rkelly wrote: Where as my experience with shorthairs has been that the only danger they pose to a burglar is being licked to death :lol:
These are his dogs only.

As you probably know dogs will bark out of aggression, fear or some innate response to alert you. Either type of bark will let you know a stranger is around. The former I would call more of a guard dog the latter I would call more of a watch dog. Many people avoid aggressive upland dogs if possible in part due to the uncertainty of whether the dog could end up biting someone, even a new member of a hunting party. I would speculate that modern U.S. hunters seem to have needed less aggressive dogs so many of the breeds as a whole are likely to be less sharp then they were when they were routinely used to kill fur bearing predators or hunt boar.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by a145 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am

I currently live in Georgia but, am moving to Arizona this summer. So, extreme cold has never really been too much of a factor in my waterfowl hunting. Out of all dogs mentioned, I'm looking closest at the GSP and Weim. Since, my dog will be a house dog and I wasn't too crazy about how much my Labs shed, can anyone relate how the GSP and Weim compare in the shedding department? I've heard mixed things, mostly Weims aren't too bad but, some have said GSP's don't shed bad at all and others have said they shed a lot for a shorthair breed.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by BigShooter » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:06 am

All dogs shed. What colors would go best with your furniture and flooring?
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Re: Some breed advise

Post by High Voltage » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:14 pm

If you are in Georgia you should get a hold of zzweims, she posted on this thread earlier. She has some very nice HUNTING weims pups availabile, last I knew, and is in Georgia. I could not tell you about the differance in shedding. We have had 4 GSP's, we have 3 now, in the house and it is not that big of a problem to me. But then I don't have a big hang up about a little dog hair :) BTW - our GSPs are good guard dogs, one is better then the others but I would let any of them "have my back".

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by AzDoggin » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:35 pm

a145 wrote:I currently live in Georgia but, am moving to Arizona this summer. So, extreme cold has never really been too much of a factor in my waterfowl hunting. Out of all dogs mentioned, I'm looking closest at the GSP and Weim. Since, my dog will be a house dog and I wasn't too crazy about how much my Labs shed, can anyone relate how the GSP and Weim compare in the shedding department? I've heard mixed things, mostly Weims aren't too bad but, some have said GSP's don't shed bad at all and others have said they shed a lot for a shorthair breed.
Bigshooter nailed it. First you buy the dog you want. Then you buy furniture to match. :lol:

In Arizona, you'll probably want tile on the floors anyway rather than carpet. I just use one of those big 4 foot wide push brooms to take a quick sweep through the house every once in a while - works like a champ.

I hope the AZ quail situation will meet your expectations. The forecast this year by Game and Fish for quail is "fair to poor" but guys still find birds in places. We had good winter rains this year. I understand it takes 2 consecutive years of good winter rains to give the quail population a boost.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by ymepointer » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:42 pm

The weims and Pointers I have had(both ESP and EP :lol: ) have shed the same but the difference is in how the hair stands out. Weims hair being greyish, seems to blend in more than the white or black hairs so is not as noticable.

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Re: Some breed advise

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:12 pm

I think that the GSP hairs are just a little bit longer than a Weims. With the white color their hair is more noticable than the Weims hair when its shedding.

I think that a Weim has more of a guarding instinct than a GSP. Mine will bark when someone comes to my house. And no one had better DARE go near my van when they are inside of it or on a chaingang right next to it. I know that ZZ's dogs are also protective of her property. It's what a Weim is supposed to be.

I also think that a Weim has more natural water love than a GSP. ZZ's and my pups are in the water by 8 weeks of age.

If ZZ doesn't have any pups left I have a couple of 16 week old pups available. Both are swimming and have been on birds.
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Re: Some breed advise

Post by BigShooter » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:38 pm

Although Weims are not my personal breed of choice you won't go wrong working with either Pam or Aline.
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Re: Some breed advice

Post by BdBHunts » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:13 pm

If I horse around with the kids my male and female Bourbonnais get upset. They whine, bark and try to get between me and the kids. If someone came in the house and tried anything I am pretty sure that the dogs would be "in their face". I have hunted over GSPs that friends bred. Some dogs handle the cold better than others, just like some people tolerate it better than others. Talk to breeders and find out what they do with their dogs

Never mind all the talk about longer or wire hair being neccessary for cold water retrieves, the hair collects ice balls and burrs. Get a vest and put in on the dog.

Check out these dogs.
http://www.canadianhuntingdogs.com/foru ... me-friends.
http://www.canadianhuntingdogs.com/foru ... od-hunting
http://www.canadianhuntingdogs.com/foru ... a-few-more.

If they are wearing one then a versatile certainly should too. The vest also protects from cuts by ice and rocks.

My male Bourbonnais in the north Atlantic on Nov 25.
Image

Get the dog you like and feel fits you best.

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