hunting the Prairies!

[mudhunter]

I'm researching a trip out to the prairies this fall for some birds. I am from Pennsylvania and know nothing of the prairies except what I read. My trip requirements are early fall, the earlier the better. Lots of birds, I don't really care what kind as long as they are game birds. I frankly don't care what I kill, I just want to get to go out and see the prairies and I think it will be good for my dogs to get out where they can use their legs and nose!! Also Lots of public land, I plan on going self guided (but may consider the right type of guide).

I am leaning towards Montana since It season starts sept. 1st and I have a cousin their. I also have relatives on the border of North Dakota and Minnesota.

SO.... For the people lucky enough to get to live in the prairie states what advise do you have, what areas would I find birds, open country and access? I'm not looking for any ones address just general info. Thanks a lot!

[Gordon Guy]

Mudhunter.
I use to live in Grand Forks ND...well a small town near there and let me tell you this you don't need to go all the way to Montana to see the prairie. Northwest MN and up to the canadian border offers lots of priaire country, and Sharptails, Check out the Thief River falls area there is lots of public land. There is also a new National refuge (with in the last 5 or 6 years) called Glacial ridge near Crookston Mn, They allow hunting on the property and there are Woodcock, Sharptails, Prairie chickens, Ruff grouse and it's all prairie (actually it's at the edge of the transision zone between woods and prairie country) with a mixture of small woodlots on the north end, mostly the tallgrass version. If your heart is for the shortgrass prairie then maybe the National grasslands in western ND might be what you seek. But there are Sharptails (These birds are the essence of the prairies) and wide open spaces from northwest MN all the way to the rockies. Check out Lone Tree Game Management Area in ND, one of my favorite places.

I'm jealous, I go back to that country every year, I miss it!
Tom

[Wagonmaster]

Hunting for the native prairie species is best at the beginning of the season. To find the birds you have to throw away everything you know about hunting upland birds from the East Coast. They are not pheasants or ruffed grouse, they have existed on the prairies for a very long time and are comfortable with it. So you will not be likely to find them in heavy grass (CRP), they prefer the native grass areas, which are usually lighter cover. Some of the best spots we hunt that time of year are pastures that have been grazed to a golf course, but have buffalo berry bushes. The young birds are in the pasture for grasshoppers, and if they need cover they move into the buffalo berry brush and hunker down. Alfalfa fields are another favorite, they are there both for the grasshoppers and the alfalfa. Also, during the heat of a warm day, they will move into tree lines and buck brush for the shade. At the right time of day the treelines can be very productive.

they also like small grains, and when those crops are ripe they will spend most of the day out in the crop fields. Most farmers don't want you in the crops, but the edges can be good.

[mm]

I did what you want to do last Sept. Drove from NY to Montana. Hunted public land. Had a blast best thing I ever did I plan on going for a month this year. My dog saw more wild birds then I could have ever hoped for. Montana was beautiful, super nice people, plenty of land public and private.
Enjoy
mm

[mudhunter]

Thanks everyone, keep suggestions coming.

Gordon Guy, like I said I got family in MN, near Pelican Rapids, so if I can get into good bird numbers their that will be ideal! (plus take a lot of time off the drive!)

[birddog1968]

Hunting for the native prairie species is best at the beginning of the season. To find the birds you have to throw away everything you know about hunting upland birds from the East Coast. .

I agree with most of what you say.....but no need to forget wild birds of the east coast. Maybe you werent lucky enough
to hunt wild bobs here but they were/are every bit as challenging as sharpies, more so even.

Sharpies are one of the easiest upland birds I've ever hunted.

[Gordon Guy]

You certainly can do a DITY hunt, pick up a Public land map in MN, A PLOTS guide to ND and there's more open land then you can hunt in a life time. And Wagonmaster is right about hunting sharptails. I'm not a pheasant hunter, sharptails are my game.
Here are my rules:
1) If the cover is over your knees look for shorter cover. Even in field of high cover there are areas with shorter cover. Ridge lines offer shorter cover then the low areas between the ridges.
2) If the wind is blowing and it is most of the time, focus on areas on the down wind side of the ridges
3) If there is no alfalfa in the field find another field.
4) Hunt the mowed areas of a CRP field. Farmers have to control weeds in CRP fields and they mow strips through and around. Alfalfa usaually grows up in these strips and sharptails feed in these areas and the taller grass of the unmowed areas allows the Sharptail to walk into roosting cover adjacent to their food sources.
5) Don't waste time kicking brush piles and searchiig in tree rows, Sharptails very rarely get into thicker cover. This is a hard habit to break especially for pheasant hunters. Early season hot days are the exception.
6) Later in the season (mid Oct and later) focus on thicker roosting areas away from the grazed pastures, sharptails get really nervous and are really difficult to approach if they can see you coming.
7) In the late season your dog better point birds at first scent, I've walked 30 yards or more in front of my setters only to have birds get up out of shotgun range. One or two birds a day shot in front of a point in the late season is reason enough to celibrate.

Have fun

[Prairie Hunter]

My choice would be northeastern MT for sharptails and Huns. I would hunt the Glasgow and Scobie areas. I have hunted those areas for several years. Unless they have a bad winter, there are usually plenty of birds.

For sharptails, stick to short grass. If the grass is more than calf high to knee high, the birds probably will not be there. One simple technique for finding birds is to hunt parallel to wheat fields, within about 100 – 150 yards of the edges. If there are knolls or ridges in the grass fields, hunt along the top. Sharptails like to get as high as they can so they can look out for danger. They will usually be on the top 1/3 of the knoll on the leeward side.

If it’s hot, you might have to go into the coulees or brush to find them. They will go there for shade. However, I avoid the coulees if possible because of the porcupines. There seem to be almost as many porcupines in MT as sharptails, and they’re huge!

Huns are another reason to hunt MT. They’re a great game bird (sort of like quail on steroids). They usually like more cover than sharptails, but you sometimes find them out in the short grass. You can find Huns around old homesteads, shelterbelts and brush lines, and in coulees. Just be careful in the coulees. Prairie birds won’t usually allow you to get very close before flushing. If you start to walk in on a point, and no birds flush, collar you dog and get it out of there. It’s probably a porky.

I prefer to hunt the last week of Sept. or 1st week of Oct. Temps can be very hot hunting at the beginning of the season. By the end of Sept., temps have usually cooled down to mid-40s or low 50s at night, and mid-60s during the day. If you wait much past the 1st week of Oct., temps have usually dropped enough for the sharptails to start getting into large groups (I’ve seen groups of 100+ birds in Nov.). You can’t get close to those groups. The 1st time I hunted sharpies, it was the 3rd week of Oct. The birds had grouped up. Most times the main group of birds would flush 80 – 100 yards out. We would rush toward the flush, and sometimes catch 1 or 2 stragglers that held a little longer. I never shot a bird under 45 - 50 yards. I had to choke my O/U Imp. Mod & Full.

[BigShooter]

In ND Sharptail opens 9/11/2010 & 10/9/2010 for pheasants. ND public land (PLOTS and State owned Management Areas don't open until 10/16 for pheasant hunting by non-residents. MN - 9/18/2010 for grouse & 10/16/2010 for pheasants. In MN trespass laws are restrictive. You need to read the regs. but generally if an area is fenced, posted or used for agriculture it's off-limits without landowner permission. In ND private land is open for hunting unless current year, signed posting signs are in place although asking for permission is always a nice idea even if not needed. ND has section line roads every mile. Unless it's been very wet there is normally easy access to most any area. Mourning Dove season also opens 9/1/2010 in ND but that is a whole different activity with dogs used primarily for retrieves.

One can find skunks & porcupines in all of the prairie areas. Many States' DNR, Game & Fish or Fish & Wildlife websites will have harvest data from a previous year or current year spring roadside drumming or crowing counts, often by County.

IMO - like driving, hunting the prairies is a privilege.

[rkelly]

I wouldn't waste my time with MN. Yes there are sharptails in MN, but it doesn't compare to Western ND, or Montana. If you are going to drive all that way go to where most the birds are. I usually hunt the western ND grasslands in mid sept for sharptails. There is plenty of land to hunt and little pressure. Honestly MN is a pain in the rear to find places to hunt unless you are after ruffed grouse.

[Prairie Hunter]

I know people that hunted northwestern ND. They didn’t have any trouble finding places to hunt. They got into quite a few sharptails and Huns. The limit on sharptail in ND is 3 per day. In MT it’s 4 per day. The limit for Huns in ND is 3 per day. It’s 8 per day in MT.

MT has a lot of BMA land (walk-in) and plenty of BLM land that is open to hunting. Some of it is good for bird hunting, some isn’t. The BMA atlas usually notes what game species you can expect to find on a particular block of land, but you still have to go there to be sure. BLM land is less predictable, but some of it’s good. There is also School Trust Lands and other State land open to hunting.

[DGFavor]

What the heck are "the Prairies" anyway?? I feel like I live on the prairies...but in 5" I can be in the mountains. I think I live in what ecologists call a "tweener"...

[grousetales]

Mudhunter, hope you find all the birds you are looking for on the prairies. I would also consider going across the border to Sask for some huns and sharps. I have been going there for a few years now and I have yet to be dissapointed.

GT

[mudhunter]

How difficult has it been getting into Canada with guns and everything?

[Wagonmaster]

Technically, Doug, you are not in the prairies, you are in the high plains and platte lands for the most part, that's where you start to get foothills and junipers. But it is alot like the shortgrass prairie, just hillier. Great land to hunt, I don't have to tell you that, and who cares how it is classified as long as it has birds in it.

Our original poster should reread Gordon Guy's rules for hunting sharptail about twenty times, because that is the bible. I didn't get into the late season types of cover because that wasn't part of the original question, but Tom (GG) is right, that is the time of year when you will find sharptails in higher grass, especially in the evening, and the dogs must stop instantly on scent, the birds will take no pressure at all. For whatever reason, the scent of the birds seems to be very light that time of year too, it is easy for a dog to overrun birds. It is a tough time of year for a dog to handle sharptail, and they need a little practice at it.

And for birddog1968 I am not knocking eastern hunting at all. I love those bobs, I have never hunted them on the coast, but have hunted them in IA and MO, and they are indeed a real challenge. I love that. I am just saying that if you are used to the types of cover that eastern birds are found in, you will find that cover out on the prairies too and you can walk an awful lot of it without getting into any native prairie species in the early part of the year. That is just not where they are. The young of the year are raised on grasshoppers and they have alot of confidence in their camo and their ability to flatten in some hole no bigger than your hand, or hunker in some buck brush, and not be seen by hawks overhead. The grasshoppers are in light cover, the closer to native prairie the grass is the better, and so are the birds. Look for the red colored grass and buffalo berries. The red colored grass is little bluestem, a native prairie specie, and that is what the chickens and true yellowlegs have lived in since time immemorial. That is where they are today.

[birddog1968]

I'm in full agreement Wagon.....

Guess I'm touchy, some always assume us easterners have never seen wild birds......

My mistake

[Wagonmaster]

Nah. I feel for you guys out there, it is alot tougher to get into wild birds than it used to be from what I hear. But it is tougher here too.

[mudhunter]

Thanks Wagonmaster I'm Listening! The dogs know what it takes to point wild birds, we hunt Ruffed Grouse and woodcock primarily. I really look forward to seeing them open up!

[Wagonmaster]

Alot of the ruffed grouse guys here, go out to the prairies to train during the summer, or at least go out for the sharptail opener. Tune up for the dogs. The young of the year sharptail hold well in the early part of the season.

Just remember it can be really hot, bring lots of water for you and the dogs.

The old field trial guys call sharptails "chickens" and prairie chickens are yellowlegs, or true yellowlegs. So here is a pic of one of my dogs standing a single chicken in the early season. It not that little speck right in front of the dog, the bird is out of the picture to the left:



I had one of my nephews along and was just carrying a camera, so I had him take the shot when we flushed the chicken. He just broke a wingtip and the bird went about a half a mile to the section road and went down somewhere out there. It was so far away and didn't look badly hit, so we finished our hunt on this piece of land and about an hour later drove down that section road to find another spot. I wanted to make a try for the wounded bird and turned the dog loose. She picked up a track and had it in about five minutes. Did I say I am a big fan of keeping the retrieve in our bird dog breeds?

Here is some typical early season cover, this is a grazed pasture:



This is some pheasant cover, and you will rarely find chickens in this stuff:





and just for fun, here is a typical native specie covey flush on the prairies, it is up by the Lonetree area Tom was talking about:



This is maybe not the best illustration, because it is on planted birds, but it is more typical of the kinds of cover we hunt east of the Dakotas. In this case it is the field trial ground at Booneville, AR, and the fellow off his horse and flushing is George Wilson. In this eastern cover, most hunters would go to that edge where the cover is high and the birds have trees to retreat to. If native prairie birds lived here, they would be out in the middle of the light grass and would not spend much time in the tree line.

[pointerbritt3]

I went to South Dakota this year in mid October, ending up having snow and cold temps. Good for running the dogs and kept the rattlesnakes away which I hear can get quite bad. Hunted the National Grasslands and had nearly the whole place to ourself. Very rarley did we run into other hunters, if we did we found another "pasture". Later in the year the birds are bunched up and very hard to get close to. Did like others mentioned and if some flush out of range hurry to where they flushed and you can pick up singles. When you can get close to singles they do hold well for the dogs. The less cover the better these birds are not in the thick stuff. Kind of hard to get used to at first. Chickens and sharptails were very plentiful. Pheasants weren't in season yet but they were everywhere, in the trees on the roads although they do like different cover. Definitely something I will make an annual trip. Thinking of heading farther north to North Dakota or SK for huns next year. Can't wait.

[Wagonmaster]

That brings up a good point. Having a really broke dog that does not go on the flush or shot can be a help. Sometimes the birds do all go on the flush, but chickens are not a true covey bird like quail, they are more of a "group" bird. There will be a group of them in a confined area, and most will get up together and leave. But if the dog is truly broke and the hunter takes the time to reload after the first flush, there is sometimes a single or small group that leaves later. If the dog goes on the flush or shot he/she will wind up takin' em all out.

[Prairie Hunter]

That brings up a good point. Having a really broke dog that does not go on the flush or shot can be a help. Sometimes the birds do all go on the flush, but chickens are not a true covey bird like quail, they are more of a "group" bird. There will be a group of them in a confined area, and most will get up together and leave. But if the dog is truly broke and the hunter takes the time to reload after the first flush, there is sometimes a single or small group that leaves later. If the dog goes on the flush or shot he/she will wind up takin' em all out.

Good point. Although, I can never seem to get reloaded fast enough!

[A/C Guy]

Thanks everyone, keep suggestions coming.

If you do hunt in a refuge, be sure to ask specifically about lead shot. Some of them require the use of non toxic shot. ( Isn't that the ultimate oxymoron? Non toxic ammo? Why not just call it lead free? )

[birddog1968]

I use steel exclusively....that way i dont have to worry about what shot is allowed......I had seemingly no issues
as far as lethality.

[lvrgsp]

Hey Dog,
What kind of steel shot size, load, brand have you had the most success with?

[birddog1968]

windy days i used some 3 inch 4's (phez) and 6's (chickens/huns) black clouds an Win experts

calm days i was using 2 3/4 6's win experts

both 20ga

12 ga might have worked better on those windy rooster days but i did fine with the 20.

Shoot em in da lips

[Wagonmaster]

Good point. Although, I can never seem to get reloaded fast enough!

Since you hunt out there you probably know this, but for those that don't. You must not take a single step after you take the first shot. Open the gun and reload before moving at all. Sometimes the "snick" of the gun opening will send any stragglers and that can't be helped, but if you take a single step while you are reloading they will go for sure and you will be sitting there with your gun open. Same with the dog, that is why we don't let them take a step in field trials. You or the dog takes a step and whatever is left will go.

Also a reason why it is critical to have a good retrieving dog that will track. You mark the fall of the bird(s) you have hit, but you don't go after them until after you have reloaded. For better or worse, if they still have legs, that gives them a chance to run, so the dog better be good at finding cripples.

I see we have some more of those "trialing is not hunting and why do they have the silly requirements in a trial." Well, here it is. A dog that is fully broke gives the hunter a chance to reload and get a shot at any stragglers. A dog that moves around is going to destroy that chance.

[birddog1968]

+1 wagon

[Prairie Hunter]

Good point. Although, I can never seem to get reloaded fast enough!

Since you hunt out there you probably know this, but for those that don't. You must not take a single step after you take the first shot. Open the gun and reload before moving at all. Sometimes the "snick" of the gun opening will send any stragglers and that can't be helped, but if you take a single step while you are reloading they will go for sure and you will be sitting there with your gun open. Same with the dog, that is why we don't let them take a step in field trials. You or the dog takes a step and whatever is left will go.

Also a reason why it is critical to have a good retrieving dog that will track. You mark the fall of the bird(s) you have hit, but you don't go after them until after you have reloaded. For better or worse, if they still have legs, that gives them a chance to run, so the dog better be good at finding cripples.

I see we have some more of those "trialing is not hunting and why do they have the silly requirements in a trial." Well, here it is. A dog that is fully broke gives the hunter a chance to reload and get a shot at any stragglers. A dog that moves around is going to destroy that chance.

I have had that happen to me several times. As you gain experience hunting these birds, you learn to be prepared for those stragglers. I don't see it as much with sharptails in the early season when they are usually in family groups of 2 or 3 birds. They will often all go at the same time, but you can't count on that. A little later in the season when they get in larger groups, it is imperative to be ready for stragglers. I have found you always need to be ready for stragglers when you get into Huns. I keep my dogs steady for that reason, for the dog's safety, and just because I love to watch classy dog work.

[Prairie Hunter]

Prairie birds don’t tend to run like pheasants will. However, if they are wounded and cannot fly, they will run, so a tracking dog can be important.

We once saw a covey of Huns in a short crop field. We knew we wouldn’t be able to get the dogs out in time without spooking the birds. We slipped out of the trucks, grabbed our guns, and went into the field after them. When the covey flushed, I knocked one down. I thought the bird was dead, so I didn’t rush to get to it. When I went to pick it up, I found feathers, but no bird. The bird had run out of the field, across a dirt road, and was about 50 yards out in a plowed field on private property when I saw it. I went back to the truck, got my dog, put him on the spot where the feathers were, and sent him to fetch. He tracked the bird down and finally caught him about 100 yards out in the field, and made the retrieve. I was glad I had a dog that could track well.

Phillip

[Wagonmaster]

We tend to get into big family groups in the early season, maybe it is just a difference in where we hunt. We get into the smaller groups of 1-3 also, but in an area where you find one of those, you will generally find more within about a quarter mile, as though a family group has really spread out to feed.

In the tree lines you will also tend to get up ones, twos and threes, but invariably there will be more further up the tree line. A dog that does not bust on the first flush is a real advantage here too.

We were once hunting a tree line, needed two birds to fill out, dog pointed, two birds flushed, I dropped one and my partner the other, so we were done. He had difficulty finding his, so I took the dog to the exact spot where it had dropped and the dog went on point rather than retrieving, which seemed a little odd. A bird got up and looked like it was struggling so thinking that was my partner's bird I shot it. The dog retrieved it, and then went to the original spot and retrieved my partner's bird, which had literally dropped right on top of an additional bird hiding in the tree line. Oooops. Not saying which state that was in, in case the DNR is reading this. We do NOT go around shooting over our limit, but in this instance I was completely fooled.

I have also had some very long tracked retrieves, which I have written about before so I won't repeat them. My female has made two retrieves of birds that were dropped by other hunters when she and I were just driving in the car. Both retrieves were over a quarter of a mile on the truck odometer, on running birds. When I see that it is as great a thing to me as a dog standing high and tight on a 30 bird covey.

In the hot early season though, an occasional wounded chicken will get away. If it is a dry day and dry cover there is very little scent for any dog, they generally can't track a bird very far, and I have also had dogs literally track a bird to a badger hole that has a drop of blood on it, they will go underground.

[mudhunter]

Another question, I have the last week of August with out any work. I was considering going to the national grasslands in North Dakota and just train for the week, I really don't care too much if I kill any birds anymore. I have had a hard time finding information about the legality of training there, it would be the last week in August and im not a Pro but would be a non resident. Anyone know where I can find infomation about if I can run dogs then on public Land??

[BigShooter]

You should be able to run then but the easiest way to find out is to send the question via e-mail to the ND G&F dept. http://gf.nd.gov/.

[caleb]

I wouldn't waste my time with MN. Yes there are sharptails in MN, but it doesn't compare to Western ND, or Montana. If you are going to drive all that way go to where most the birds are. I usually hunt the western ND grasslands in mid sept for sharptails. There is plenty of land to hunt and little pressure. Honestly MN is a pain in the rear to find places to hunt unless you are after ruffed grouse.

I'm going to have to agree. I grew up south of Crookston, visit regularly, and I don't think there are many birds in the area. If you go east you'll run into birds, but not much in the Crookston/Grand Forks/Fargo area. The land in the Red River Valley is some of the most intensely farmed I've ever encountered, and the farmers are less and less willing to grant permission, especially to outsiders. I've never seen a pheasant, prairie chicken, or grouse within 20 miles of the Red River. The turkeys are making a comeback, but not much else.

If you want to hunt in MN, there are two good options I know of:

1) Hunt pheasants in southern Minnesota. There's plenty of public land and the MN DNR stocks pretty heavily.

2) Hunt grouse in northern Minnesota. You mentioned you have family in Pelican Rapids. Grab a map and draw a triangle between Pelican Rapids, Duluth, and Red Lake. Inside that triangle is a huge amount of public land and some of the world's best grouse hunting. Very little of it is prairie, though.

If you really want to hunt the prairies, I'd head at least an hour into North Dakota. Getting out to Valley City, Cooperstown, or Lisbon (all along the Sheyenne River) strikes me as the minimum for really hunting under wide open skies. Another way to put it is that you need to get over the westernmost shore of Lake Agassiz.

[BigShooter]

You cannot train (or run your dog) on State Wildlife Management Areas from April 1 - August 15th. You may not train or run your dog on State School Trust Fund Lands at all. Generally unless you bring more than four dogs to ND for training you are not required to be licensed by the State. The general prohibition for professional dog trainers licensed by the State covers the period from April 1 to July 14th.

You may wish to review the info here: http://gf.nd.gov/licenses/docs/sfn-6532.pdf

I still think to be on the safe side it'd be a good idea to know generally where you want to go and check with the ND G&F Dept. to make certain it's okay. Any national park land in Western ND I assume would have it's own set of rules governing dogs running within it's borders.