Advice requested

[ncpointers]

I have purchased two English Setters during the past year to try to attract my 14 year old son's attention to the outdoors that I love so much. It has seemed to work. He has become very interested.

The first dog I purchased is a four year old pleasure dog. She is perfect for his introduction. We have taken her to two pleasure trials and she has performed very well but not placed. My son handles her well so I ask no more from her.

I then purchased a puppy of 4 months. He was pointing and backing at this age. We carried him to a fun trial just to more or less watch but I let my son run him in the puppy brace. He did OK for the competion and great for his age. They needed a dog to fill the last brace in the derby. I entered the pup and my son and they placed third out of six dogs. I was overjoyed.

I know this has been long but I wanted you to have the background before the question. The pup is now 11 months old and at the trainers. He is holding to flush and retrieving naturally. The trainer has said that he would like to try the pup this fall on the field trial circuit. Is it better to let the trainer handle the dog or let my son try it with no experience? I want my son to enjoy experiences but don't want to waste the dog. I know that my son and I can accompany the trainer for the experience. What would be ideal?

[grant]

Hello,

Someone may be able to answer the question better than I, but I would like to comment.

If I did not get to train my own dogs and hunt with my own dogs, I would not be in this sport. I’ve just enjoyed the whole process of getting a puppy, and learning to train it, and finally working the dog. I’ve learned a ton with in the last year about training and hunting with my shorthairs.

Anyway, I would spend lots of time during the week and weekend with my dogs, and this did not go over well with the fiancé. She started to not enjoy the dogs as much because they took me away from her, a lot! Well, I started letting her help me with the training and she has been to see them hunt. It seems like now that I’m encouraging her take part, she is enjoying working the dogs and becoming more interested in the sport.

All of this to say, we do not enjoy the sport without getting to train, work, and enjoy the dogs. Lindsay was not interested in the sport until she got to take part. Your son might not be able to win as much with the dog as the trainer would, but what’s more important, that the dog wins 1st place with the trainer, while the son sits the sidelines, or the son enters a few fun trials an places 17th, but he has the time of his life! =) (I finished 17th on my first trial with Bell)

This might not answer your question, but I just wanted to comment. Hopefully you and your son will have great times. My dad doesn’t hunt as much anymore, but it’s the best feeling to go spend a day with my dad on a hunt. In fact, when I had Bell at 5 months old, she had been hanging around with me at the plantation, and saw lots of birds. She seemed to be having lots of fun and holding points well. I decided to bring my dad on a hunt with Bell. Bell ran up every bird and chased them off the mountain. Regardless, I got to spend the day hunting with my dad and my dog. Its something I’ll remember for a long time =)

[Country-Side Breeders]

If it's possible, I would get your son over to the trainers to work along side with the trainer. If not, stay in close contact with the trainer to know exactly what's going on with the pup so you know at what stage the pup is at. I would agree with Grant and allow your son to run him. If nothing else, let him go with the trainer for the first few times to get a knowledge of how things are worked with the dog. Then I'd let your son run the pup. It's the enjoyment of watching your son and dog work that's more important than winning the titles.

You didn't say, but I'm assuming that you're going to be using the dogs primarily for hunting and that going to an occassional trial is in 2nd place? If you're looking to get as many titles on the dog as possible, then I'd let the trainer do the work, otherwise your son. I'm sure there are going to be other opinions, but if it were me in the situation with my daughters or son, I would most definately let the kids have a go at it.

[Featherman]

If you're looking to spend money and accrue titles, keep the dog with the trainer...

If you're looking to spend TIME and accrue MEMORIES, let the boy handle the dog.

Good luck what ever you decide.

Jon

[WildRose]

If you really want to spur the little guy on AND compete with the dog get him as involved with the training as the trainer will allow. You'll find most pro's VERY willing to have a helpful polite young boy along to help with training chores and personally I love teaching them what little I've learned over the years. Nothing like seeing a kids eyes light up!


Then when it comes to trialing you can go both ways. You can have the boy handle the dog in junior classes, hunt tests and foot stakes, as well as horse back trials as an amature; and let the pro run the dog in the open or "pro" classes.

Anything you do that gives your son the most time and positive experience with the dog will go a long, long ways towards shaping his future. CR

[Rusti's Mom]

Ted,
If this is his first hunting dog, let him do what Charlie and a few others have suggested. Our trainer loves to have the boys and my husband in training with our dogs. It is called "train the owner" and the first time out, my husband actually took notes.

The boys hunt with Rusti and she is retired from Testing.

We now have two of her pups. Staci is being campaigned on the National Field Trial Circuit by our current trainer as this game is new to us, and he has the horses and all of the gear. We don't have the time to do it ourselves. She is 10 months old and has a 3rd in Puppy, 2nd in Puppy, and a 2nd in Derby. We are very excited about the placements. We will be in WI. this week, not only to see her, but to start my husband's training so that he can run her in Amateur Trials next fall.

Duke, her brother, will be running in a NAVHDA Natural Ability Test while we are there. My husband will be running him. He has also been with the Professional Trainer and we will leave him there for more training and possibily of running him in the fall trials.

Trust me, the Field Trial thing is addicting. The last thing on our minds was to get into trialing. We are staying removed from all of the trappings as best we can. It is a lot of fun and we love having a promising puppy doing this. All of the games are fun, and you have to try and keep it that way. Have fun, let your son have fun, especially with his first dog.

Pat

[doublea]

Well here is the perspective of a guy that trains professionally and also campaigns dogs in field trials: First as so many of the others here have mentioned, “Train the Owner”. This is imperative regardless to whether or not you compete with the dog. So my suggestion is for both you and your son to spend as much time as allowable with your trainer learning from him how to correct the dog and also how to handle the dog. I tell all of my customers up front that if they are not willing to learn the proper ways to handle and correct the trained dog. All the time, energy and money they will have spent on the dog will be for not. So like most here have said: See if you can go and help out around the kennel, plant birds, feed dogs do what ever you need to so that you can observe and learn from a pro.
Second, you say this pro wants to run the dog in trials. Before I committed to any of this I would check into this guys credentials. If he has a track record of winning, I might consider giving the dog enough opportunity to find out whether or not the dog can cut it at that level. In which case I would let the dog go with only the pro that trained him/her. At such time as this dog proves that he/she is a winner and demonstrates some level of consistent performance only then would I consider allowing your son to handle the dog. Now on the other hand if your trainer does not have a winning record, I might think long and hard about the possibility of getting soaked on this deal. Some “pro trainers” will tell you just about whatever it takes to keep the checks rolling in if you get my drift.

[ncpointers]

Thank you all for your advice. It has been truly helpful to get the different points of view. My son trained with the older dog for about three months once a week last fall. I will begin this again for him to get the needed experience.

The trainer was a good friend long before I had any pointing dogs. I trailed fox walkers for about ten years before the time demands forced my retirement. We used to talk dog health and the like. I believe that I can trust him.

We will see what the future holds. Thanks again.

[Country-Side Breeders]

Good luck, keep us posted and above all HAVE FUN!!!

[Wireviz_lady]

I got my daughter a wirevizsla after much naggin...I was going to get him anyways. She is 13 going to be 14 next month. Because my wire viz are reg with NAVHDA we are getting ready to do the NA testing on the pups. I decided to get her her $20 membership so that she can handle Murphy during the testing. Isnt this what it is all about? My working with training dogs in 4H as a kid is what got me to where I am today. I have my kennel with my Vizsla and do grooming to support my dog habit. I am the local "dog lady" that everyone comes to when they have a training or health problem. The kids at school also come up to my daughter and ask her questions when they have a dog problem. Does it get any better than this?
Kaylie gets a monthly NAVHDA mag with her membership which is nice so I dont have to share mine. vbg. Get the kids involved now and they will have a lifetime of pleasure with thier dogs.