How far have you got a signal with your Garmin

[Pineywoods]

Three weeks ago today I was at the Lee county Open-All-Age trial riding on the dog wagon and having a big ol time when
Rick Furney lost his dog and ask for his Garmin. He then rode off to find his dog. When he returned with the dog every one
was gathered around the dog wagon getting ready for the next brace and Mr. Furney announces he had received a signal at
1.78 miles and that was the longest he had ever got a signal, some one else spoke up and said they had received a signal at
1.80 miles but no one else claimed to have got a signal any further than that.
I was socked to here that short a range on flat pineywoods from top flight pros. Then some one spoke up and said that
they did not work that far on the prairies, now this coming from guys who use them every day. All the top guys were there,
and I noticed Robin & Hunter Gates were the only ones using a Tracker. Nine days later I was at the Florida-Georgia handlers
trial (a shooting dog trial for plantation handlers) it seemed to be more evenly split between Trackers & Garmins.
Now I don't own either at this time but I have a lot of friends (hounds men) who track a lot further than that with tracking
collars of many different brands. I am not trying to start any thing I would just like to know the truth before I spend any
money. How far out do you guys lose your signal with your Garmins?

[slistoe]

There is no doubt that the Tracker and other telemetry systems will work at much greater ranges than the Garmin. I do not have a Garmin, but I have never had reliable radio communication at more than a mile in any of the area where my wife and I hunt game birds.

[Ruffshooter]

Maybe the AA dogs and Shooting dogs are not going as far as some owners think they are. Is not the Garmin a GPS? Why would it be limited by distance. The signal does not go straight from the dog to the handler. I believe it goes from the dog to the satelite, from the satelite to the handler, right? So other than having a canopy over head and maybe some annomoly in the atmosphere, there is no limit, right?

Just a thought.
Rick

[Shadow]

I've been using my DC20 & DC30 for 2 seasons every time out in different type country- could say I'm happy that mine haven't read past 898 yards

I can say when I was in the mountains elk huning mine kept track of base camp- meaning, I marked base as my starting point, and it always showed where it was, 2.3 miles a couple times- when I got my elk I left a collar on it and went back to camp- no problem heading to camp to get the horses and return

also- since I'd left my other collar at home- it always pointed to that and told me it was 589 miles East- from base camp- the way I understood it is no way could I get lost

think it has unlimited range- but limited on telling exactly what the dog (other collar) is doing

[BigShooter]

From what I recall the GPS handheld unit works off satellites however the dog collar unit uses a radio signal to communicate its location to the handheld unit. That's the limitation.

[phermes1]

also- since I'd left my other collar at home- it always pointed to that and told me it was 589 miles East- from base camp- the way I understood it is no way could I get lost

think it has unlimited range- but limited on telling exactly what the dog (other collar) is doing

I've had something similar happen when I turn my collar on at home and the last time it was on was 40 miles away at some training grounds. The handheld indicated that the collar was 40 miles away, presumably since it hadn't received an update from it, so it assumed the collar was still at its last report location. It took a long time to synch, but once it did it showed the collar as nearby.

[Az Draht]

The signal does not go straight from the dog to the handler. I believe it goes from the dog to the satelite, from the satelite to the handler, right? :
Rick

that is incorrect. Each unit is tracked by satellites, but the dog collar transmits by radio frequency to to the hand held unit. Because of this, they do not work as well in hilly terrain.

Last month, I had good readings of my hunting partners dogs at 1.5 miles in the grouse woods of northern Minnesota. Last week, I lost communication with mine at 100 yards in the hills here in AZ.

[slistoe]

AZDraht has the correct response on the limitations of the Garmin unit. As I said, we use hand held radios when bird hunting and most places we are lucky to have useable signal at 1/2 mile. These are units advertised with a 20 mile range. Not sure which two mountain tops they tested them from

There are other units for sale, and have been for quite some time, in Europe which transmit between the dog and the handler units by cell phone technology. Again, this would not be practical because the majority of the places where we bird hunt there is limited to no cell phone service as well.

[BigShooter]

Each unit is tracked by satellites

This portion of the post is incorrect. Each unit is not tracked by satellites.The handheld and collar units receive signals from satellites. Based upon those signals these GPS units calculate their location. As I said before the collar's position is transmitted via radio signal directly to the handheld unit. That is the limitation.

AZDraht has the correct response on the limitations of the Garmin unit.

Yes, BIgShooter & later Az Draht both correctly identified the limitation caused by use of the radio signal.

[Ruffshooter]

Please excuse this what seems to me to be a stupid question. What is the point of having the GPS part if it is not used to also transmit the dogs location to the satelite and back to the hand held unit? The limitations are on the Radio transmitter end which is the same as with any radio frequency unit? This might be how the RHINO units work with the lost mode?

Thanks for your patience.
Rick

[BigShooter]

Rick, I can only guess here. Adding transmitting equipment to the collar would likely make it too heavy & bulky. Remember there was already a problem with the size and weight of the collar unit allowed for competitions. It has been stated there is some evidence transmitting continuously near living tissue may cause cancer. So it could be a risk for the dog but I'm no expert. Also, you would have to use someone's satellite and they would probably charge a significant monthly fee for the service. Remember the ballyhoo about sky phones? Would the minutes charged to your account be based upon every minute the collar was turned on? These are a few of the challenges I can think of off the top of my head.

[Dave Quindt]

Please excuse this what seems to me to be a stupid question. What is the point of having the GPS part if it is not used to also transmit the dogs location to the satelite and back to the hand held unit? The limitations are on the Radio transmitter end which is the same as with any radio frequency unit? This might be how the RHINO units work with the lost mode?

Thanks for your patience.
Rick

Rick,

The short answer is "because that's not how GPS works". GSP satellites are transmitters only; every 30 seconds they transmit their orbital location. They have no connection with the GPS receivers. The GPS receiver determines is location by taking the data provided by 4 satellites, and internally calculates its location.

The way the Astro works is that the dog unit is a complete GPS unit; it determines its location via GPS satellites. It then sends, via radio signal, its position back to the hand unit you carry, or any other receiver looking for that kind of data on that particular frequency.

RHINO units work the same way; they send out their position via radio signal. No satellite involved.

There are certainly applications out there that allow for GSP coordinates to be sent to a receiver via satellite, but those are more expensive and complex than the Garmin unit.

FWIW,
Dave

[slistoe]

Yes, BIgShooter & later Az Draht both correctly identified the limitation caused by use of the radio signal.

Sorry BigShooter.

[Ruffshooter]

Thanks for the explanations. It seems to me that the Garmin may not be worth the hype, although I understand they have a DC30 that is 40% more powerful but still is based upon line of site.

Rick

[BigShooter]

FWIW,

Right now there are three types of GPS units available to the public that transmit their location on 406MHz, EPIRBS (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon - Marine Use), ELTs ( Emergency Locator Transmitters - aircraft - also use 121.5MHz) & PLBs (Personal Locator Beacons). Beacons must be registered and depending on the unit's features are activated either automatically or manually. Their signals are instantly detected by geostationary satellites for emergency rescue purposes.

For a dog system to work via satellite, you would, at a minimum, need a transmission band that was available & authorized for such use, the ability to have a separate identification code (like having cellular phone numbers) for every collar & every handheld unit, geostationary satellites that would pick up the collar location signal and transmit it to the matching coded handheld & a collar with a sending unit capable of reaching the satellite(s). Satellites for emergency location purposes are generally governmentally funded. Whereas for a dog system I'll bet somebody would want you to be paying for the use of their satellite(s). Also as most people know thick overhead cover can block the GPS location transmissions from satellites.

Nothing in use yet is perfect but I do have a Garmin DC30 that works well for my purposes.

[birddog1968]

My Garmin did well in NON line of site situations.....Didnt do any range tests but dogs were over multiple hills with
no loss of signal. I was also amazed it worked well in the eastern woods (thick) with full canopy cover.

[Shadow]

Thanks for the explanations. It seems to me that the Garmin may not be worth the hype, although I understand they have a DC30 that is 40% more powerful but still is based upon line of site.

Rick

you can say it's not worth it- what hype are you speaking about- you ever been with someone who is running one or more dogs that aren't bootpolishers

[dudleysmith]

there are different atteneas that go on your truck that picks up better and then one that you take the rubber attenena off the handheld unit and replace it with a metal expandable one...(not the Garmin on) a after market one....Bear hunters around here use these and say they get better signal

[Ruffshooter]

Shadow: Many times you have much to offer others you can't help your self . I am not talking about anyones dogs or range of their dogs or mine for that matter.
:roll:
Okay, I am talking about how the latest and greatest is always advertised as the best out there. Everyone gets sucked into the new gadgets. Hey that is human nature alway wanting the best. Nothing wrong with that. Folks are always talking this unit up up hear and talking about getting one.
Just saying it does not seem that much better than the trackers, maybe they are. And really is it needed on a good grouse dog?
Many of the bear/cat/rabbit/coyote hunters up hear use trackers, they loose a lot of dogs every year. Have found a few my self and got them home to appreciative owners/guides. It is obvious that some tool is better than no tool to get you close to your dog that is lost.

We do not hunt open ground up hear and on foot. We have many 1000 ft over sea level hills an some mountains (not like out west or even in NH). I have one way to close hunting dog. One is a fifty to 100 yard dog in the woods. The one not sure she varies from hunt to hunt but always away, the other is out near as far as I can tell up to a couple hundred yards out crosses thirty yard in front keeps going to the other side a couple hundred yards and repeats. This is all in Grouse woods. I have run my dogs in KA and ND, they open up more but not out there 1/4 to 2 miles. To you maybe boot lickers (certainly one of them to me also) but finding a dog two hundred yards away on point on a Ruff in time before the bird moves off or flushes is rare. So my dogs work for what I do.

I am just asking questions, trying to understand and making an observation and a comment. If you don't like it don't read and don't participate.

Enjoy your day.
Rick

[Shadow]

well- I had been using beepers and bells for many years- I've also been in Alaska, many places in Minnesota, quite a bit of the Colorado mountains, Texas, Nebraska, Michigan, and a few other places- I was getting interested in the trackers but they were costly- the Garmin came I bought one- then bought the DC30 collar for the pup- for me it's the greatest invention

sure don't see it as hype- as you so fondly suggest

[phermes1]

It seems to me that there was a similar discussion about this a year ago.
Bottom line is that the Garmin is a very promising new product that is also very NEW. All of the issues with distance and coverage will likely be addressed as the technology matures.

[BigShooter]

Shadow & Ruffshooter,

Generally I like the posts you guys make. Not all of us are the greatest wordsmiths in the world so I try not to get too hung up on just one word in a post like "hype". The way I took Ruffshooter's post was more along the lines of trying to convey the idea that it's often helpful to distinguish between advertisements, hearsay and the real world experience of product end users you trust. Gaining additional knowledge about how something works under different conditions and applying it to your particular set of circumstances to figure out if it's a good technology for your purposes is a good thing, in my opinion.

Have a nice day and keep the posts coming!

[alex0742]

I love my unit and I too would like to hear more people tell there experience with range. I havent pushed the envelope with mine but it has sure come in handy in this south texas cover. I watched my dog haul butt on the unit for a while then it said he treed something and he was stationary 600 yards away. I ran straight to him and found him baying one of the largest hogs I have ever seen. I took dog and left.

[Tejas]

2.1 miles at a trial....and that was not a good thing.

[Shadow]

on PDJF there is quite a discussion of the Garmin- we had a guy from Garmin come on for a chatt one evening

i don't feel a person who doesn't have one nor hasn't used one has much to say on it

[Az Draht]

The Astro is absolutely worth the hype. And the price.

If you don't think so, just go around to the different forums and read the posts on lost dogs. Then ask the person who lost the dog how much they would pay to have an Astro around the dogs neck at that time.

Then read the posts were people give real world examples of how the astro prevented their dog from being lost. Ask them if it was worth it.

[DGFavor]

The Astro is absolutely worth the hype. And the price.

If you don't think so, just go around to the different forums and read the posts on lost dogs.

IMO, the Astro ain't truly useful for finding really lost dogs - it doesn't have the range or the battery life. When the sun sets and you still don't have the dog, with the Garmin, you're done. It's an awesome tool for hunting but if you really want to get a truly lost dog back home, I'd stick with telemetry for the time being - it's gonna give you much greater range and days to find the dog.

I've noticed the foot hunter types adore the thing and the rangier horseback folks recognize it's limitations. The folks that think the Astro is gonna help prevent the dog from getting lost, don't typically have the kind of dogs that are gonna get lost anyway IMO. I still simultaneously run both a tele collar and the Garmin (when the dang thing works - I'm sending another dc30 back with a busted on/off switch). I use the Garmin cause it really is a cool tool and the tele collar as insurance I'll bring the dog home.

To answer the question - I've had dogs out to 1.2 miles on the Garmin and lost contact with 'em as close as 57yds.

[natetnc]

the garmin astro can be used for many different things besides not losing your dog. my dogs generally don't get out past the 400yd mark in woods and 1000yd mark in open country. they are also very good about checking back so i am not all that worried about losing them.

this is how the garmin astro is useful to me:
1) is lets me know that my dog is working in front of me and knows the direction i am heading. if i am walking one way and my dog is working another i will hit the whistle to turn them.
2) i can usually tell when the dog is looking for me, they will run/stop/run/stop, i know then to give a hit on the whistle to let them know where i am..... if they are hunting me they are not hunting birds.
3) i needed a hand held gps anyway and the hand held (similar to the rhino) does what i need.
4) any time i call them in i can see when they react and how they react. for instance, my male had a problem with coming all the way back to me when i called him. he would come in just close enough to get an idea of where i was at then go back to doing whatever he wanted, without the astro i wouldn't have known this, with it i was able to correct it.
5) should they ever get hurt i would know exactly where to find them.
6) some of the out-of-field features are very useful, viewing your tracks on google earth is a great example. you can see what you hunted and most importantly what you did not. did you dog actually cover that field on the high side (out of sight) or was he just heading that direction to get a cold drink from the creek? by viewing my younger dog's tracks on google earth i have been able to watch him mature and actually start hunting, it has been a neat experience.

i know a lot of the things above could be accomplished with a beeper but i hate listening to those things, and the 300yd range (advertised) sometimes isn't enough. was my first instinct to buy the astro so i wouldn't lose my dogs, yes. after using it for some time is it my #1 reason for using it, no. guess what i am saying is all this discussion on ranges over 1.8 mi is irrelevant to a lot of users and should not discourage the purchase. but just for input sake, the longest mine has ranged was 1.6mi on a friend's dog, then the dog turned back, i was in the open above the dog, the dog was in a hardwood forest.

[Buford Boone]

As I've posted on another thread, I believe the Garmin prevented me losing my Brit. Another person posted about finding his GSP cornered by wolves. A friend of mine has a pointer pup that discovered deer recently. Before my friend realized what had happened, the pup was a long way away. He is convinced that the Garmin, by telling him which way to look, saved him from a lost dog.

Nah, they are not perfect but I've been very happy with the way mine has worked. I started with the DC20 and then purchased a DC30. I got the whip antenna for the DC20 and put it on other's dogs when hunting with friends. The DC30 is FAR superior to the DC20.

The day I almost lost Chick we were in heavy woods. The Garmin kept signal for more than 1 mile. I don't remember exactly how far as I began running in her direction when the display switched from yards to miles. I remember 1.? but not the exact number.

Without the Garmin, I wouldn't have known which way to run.

I'd have to say it also taught me to keep a closer watch on my dog. I'd buy another without hesitation.

[alex0742]

The Astro is absolutely worth the hype. And the price.

If you don't think so, just go around to the different forums and read the posts on lost dogs.

IMO, the Astro ain't truly useful for finding really lost dogs - it doesn't have the range or the battery life. When the sun sets and you still don't have the dog, with the Garmin, you're done. It's an awesome tool for hunting but if you really want to get a truly lost dog back home, I'd stick with telemetry for the time being - it's gonna give you much greater range and days to find the dog.

I've noticed the foot hunter types adore the thing and the rangier horseback folks recognize it's limitations. The folks that think the Astro is gonna help prevent the dog from getting lost, don't typically have the kind of dogs that are gonna get lost anyway IMO. I still simultaneously run both a tele collar and the Garmin (when the dang thing works - I'm sending another dc30 back with a busted on/off switch). I use the Garmin cause it really is a cool tool and the tele collar as insurance I'll bring the dog home.

To answer the question - I've had dogs out to 1.2 miles on the Garmin and lost contact with 'em as close as 57yds.

Make sure that antena on the collar is secured real good. I had all kinds of problems with mine. Kept losing the signal. I called garmin and the first thing they walked me thru was checking the antena on the collar. It screws in and apparntly they were not tightened sufficiently at the factory.

[DGFavor]

Without the Garmin, I wouldn't have known which way to run.

Of course, you'd know which way to go with telemetry also, only you'd be able to pick the dog up farther and for a much, much longer window of time. If you're sure you'll always get your hands back on the dog within the battery life of the Garmin collar and that the dog won't run off "the grid"/out of contact with the handheld, it'll work fine. No arguments from me. Of course, I'd argue that dog ain't really lost. Lost is when you don't know where the dog is at period - you got no signal, no direction, nuttin - and you gotta use your noodle and available equipment to go find it - telemetry is a much better choice IMO for recovering a dog in those situations.

[Shadow]

the garmin astro can be used for many different things besides not losing your dog. my dogs generally don't get out past the 400yd mark in woods and 1000yd mark in open country. they are also very good about checking back so i am not all that worried about losing them.

this is how the garmin astro is useful to me:
1) is lets me know that my dog is working in front of me and knows the direction i am heading. if i am walking one way and my dog is working another i will hit the whistle to turn them.
2) i can usually tell when the dog is looking for me, they will run/stop/run/stop, i know then to give a hit on the whistle to let them know where i am..... if they are hunting me they are not hunting birds.
3) i needed a hand held gps anyway and the hand held (similar to the rhino) does what i need.
4) any time i call them in i can see when they react and how they react. for instance, my male had a problem with coming all the way back to me when i called him. he would come in just close enough to get an idea of where i was at then go back to doing whatever he wanted, without the astro i wouldn't have known this, with it i was able to correct it.
5) should they ever get hurt i would know exactly where to find them.
6) some of the out-of-field features are very useful, viewing your tracks on google earth is a great example. you can see what you hunted and most importantly what you did not. did you dog actually cover that field on the high side (out of sight) or was he just heading that direction to get a cold drink from the creek? by viewing my younger dog's tracks on google earth i have been able to watch him mature and actually start hunting, it has been a neat experience.

i know a lot of the things above could be accomplished with a beeper but i hate listening to those things, and the 300yd range (advertised) sometimes isn't enough. was my first instinct to buy the astro so i wouldn't lose my dogs, yes. after using it for some time is it my #1 reason for using it, no. guess what i am saying is all this discussion on ranges over 1.8 mi is irrelevant to a lot of users and should not discourage the purchase. but just for input sake, the longest mine has ranged was 1.6mi on a friend's dog, then the dog turned back, i was in the open above the dog, the dog was in a hardwood forest.

well said

[Shadow]

Buford- I spent three days trying to catch up with my Britt- she had a beeper on- she was pointing turkeys- they would hold- then move- vet assistant got a call about a Britt walking down the road- beeper was still going- they called me asking how to shut the thing off

another time- she got caught in a trap- showed up 2.5 months when a kid got off the bus

yeh- liked the way you described running- Garmin is the magic I was looking for- I have the 20 & 30 and like them both-