My female GSP Bell never barks, but Carl the male GSP BARKS ALL THE TIME =)
I had to get a bark collar.... Seem to work somes.... :roll:
Just a thought
Just a thought
Last edited by grant on Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Country-Side Breeders
I just picked up a collar, and I'm sorry I didn't get one sooner! I have a male that insists on barking at everything...and carries it down to the others, but only when he's around. It doesn't take them long to figure out just what makes them work, does it? And, it's so much quieter in the house now. 
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feralaussie
It's an interesting subject. I often wonder what's going on in those cheeky little heads and why some find it necessary to bark incessantly. I can understand seperation anxiety but sometimes I swear they do it just to drive us mad!
I had a dog that never barked until we went out in the car..if there were people near the vehicle when I left it, she went mad! The rest of the time she never uttered a peep.
I had a dog that never barked until we went out in the car..if there were people near the vehicle when I left it, she went mad! The rest of the time she never uttered a peep.
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Colleen
I just got a bark collar too, it has a progressive intensity that resets after 30 seconds. So if he barks 6 times in less than 30 seconds he gets 6 zaps, each a little stronger than the last. Hasn't made it past 3 yet, and snaps at the air and whirls around to see what's "biting" him. He doesn't bark much, but he does cry like the spoiled little brat he is when we leave, and since we live in an apartment the bark collar was our only option. He only has to wear it when we're not home, he barks when people come inside and stuff but not incessantly and doesn't need it all hte time. Works though, not a peep when it's on him!!!
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doublea
Over the years I have found a few things to be true in the world of bird dogs. First, they bark for three different reasons: 1. To sound alarm, i.e., strangers in the yard ect. 2. Boredom. 3. To get attention even if it is negative attention.
Above all else I have found that the act of being vocal is of genetic origin. From experience, I know for a fact that the same yippy little bark has been passed down from mother to daughter for at least 3 generations. Believe me it is very frustrating and very difficult to breed away from it. Finally, I know that while a bark collar is a useful tool it does nothing to solve the underlying problem, i.e., breeding vocal dogs to vocal dogs. Take it from me, breed quite calm animals and you get far better pups that are easier to train than those you get from vocal high strung dogs.
Above all else I have found that the act of being vocal is of genetic origin. From experience, I know for a fact that the same yippy little bark has been passed down from mother to daughter for at least 3 generations. Believe me it is very frustrating and very difficult to breed away from it. Finally, I know that while a bark collar is a useful tool it does nothing to solve the underlying problem, i.e., breeding vocal dogs to vocal dogs. Take it from me, breed quite calm animals and you get far better pups that are easier to train than those you get from vocal high strung dogs.
According to your examples AA, Carl barks for attention and to sound alarm. I opened my mouth too soon, because I've just started seeing Bell bark to sound alarm. Carl likes to sound alarm at anything that moves during the night, which drives the neighbors crazy.
Bell seems a bit more high strung than Carl, but barks less.
My hypothesis:
I got bell at a young age. She stayed inside with me with lots of attention for the first 6 months of her life. She talks when she feels she needs to, which is not much.
Carl's need for attention was created by his lack of attention and socialization up until he was 5 months old by his owner. He was crated a lot of that time. Carl's vocalizations come from the separation anxiety created at his young age. I not saying that some of his excessive barking is not genetic, because genetics obviously play an important role in a dogs demeanor.
A dog simply barks because it can. Its one of their means to communicate. Studies show that a dogs have different barks. For example, if a rabbit, bird, and a cat separately walk into my yard. Chances are, Carl and Bell will have 3 slightly different vocalizations for each one. This shows that dogs may use their vocalizations many more reasons than we thought possible.
Grant
Bell seems a bit more high strung than Carl, but barks less.
My hypothesis:
I got bell at a young age. She stayed inside with me with lots of attention for the first 6 months of her life. She talks when she feels she needs to, which is not much.
Carl's need for attention was created by his lack of attention and socialization up until he was 5 months old by his owner. He was crated a lot of that time. Carl's vocalizations come from the separation anxiety created at his young age. I not saying that some of his excessive barking is not genetic, because genetics obviously play an important role in a dogs demeanor.
A dog simply barks because it can. Its one of their means to communicate. Studies show that a dogs have different barks. For example, if a rabbit, bird, and a cat separately walk into my yard. Chances are, Carl and Bell will have 3 slightly different vocalizations for each one. This shows that dogs may use their vocalizations many more reasons than we thought possible.
Grant
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Country-Side Breeders
To throw a curve ball into this...Hunter is the one that barks when my husband is gone and the most when he is here...we got him at 6 weeks and added him to a pair of labs that we had that barked at everything. The rest ONLY bark when Hunter starts it.
Molly barks ONLY to alert us of foreign mammals in the yard, usually at night, while she is outside doing her business in the kennel. We got her (and her sister) at 5 months, from which she was a kennel dog with more than 10 other dogs...other than that, she NEVER barks.
Hank barks when there is suspicious activity going on and stops on command. I got Hank at 8 weeks. He came from a home where it was just him and his brother left in a kennel; I bought both of them.
I got Carver when she was 2. She came from 2 different homes that both opened the door and when she returned, she returned. She doesn't bark except when she has a litter down, and it doesn't matter if they are just whelped or 6 weeks old...she gets the collar because she likes to play follow the leader.
Cassie barks also barks at suspicious activity and b/c she can't be out when the others are being worked. I picked her up as an adult, again she was in a kennel with more than half a dozen dogs, who also barked. She gets the collar the most often...as when I put it on Hunter, he trembles and can't handle it...even though he's never barked with it on!
Hunter, Carver, Molly and Cassie are not high strung.
Hank is.
When Hunter is gone, none of the dogs bark, with the exceptions of the reasons noted above.
I believe that it's a learned trait, although Molly puts all of that off kilter. None of the dogs that she used to live with barked.
Grant is right, they do it b/c they can communicate with us. I don't know if it's a gene that is able to be bred out of a dog or not, but it's worth looking into.
Molly barks ONLY to alert us of foreign mammals in the yard, usually at night, while she is outside doing her business in the kennel. We got her (and her sister) at 5 months, from which she was a kennel dog with more than 10 other dogs...other than that, she NEVER barks.
Hank barks when there is suspicious activity going on and stops on command. I got Hank at 8 weeks. He came from a home where it was just him and his brother left in a kennel; I bought both of them.
I got Carver when she was 2. She came from 2 different homes that both opened the door and when she returned, she returned. She doesn't bark except when she has a litter down, and it doesn't matter if they are just whelped or 6 weeks old...she gets the collar because she likes to play follow the leader.
Cassie barks also barks at suspicious activity and b/c she can't be out when the others are being worked. I picked her up as an adult, again she was in a kennel with more than half a dozen dogs, who also barked. She gets the collar the most often...as when I put it on Hunter, he trembles and can't handle it...even though he's never barked with it on!
Hunter, Carver, Molly and Cassie are not high strung.
Hank is.
When Hunter is gone, none of the dogs bark, with the exceptions of the reasons noted above.
I believe that it's a learned trait, although Molly puts all of that off kilter. None of the dogs that she used to live with barked.
Grant is right, they do it b/c they can communicate with us. I don't know if it's a gene that is able to be bred out of a dog or not, but it's worth looking into.
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WildRose
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Grant I've got to agree. While I've seen vocalization such as a very excited dog whining and barking in the field when they are first turned loose for example (which I like shows excitement and desire) I've also had enough experience with enough dogs to think that in most cases if a dog is being a nusiance barker it's normally due to neglect and the need/want for attention.
I also agree about the different barks. I can tell you for example instantly that someone has just crossed the cattleguard about six hundred yards from the house by the sound of the dogs. I can tell you as well if they continue on down to the field, or cross the cattleguard coming into the place by the same barks.
If two dogs get in a fight and the other dogs start barking there's a definite different bark, from the crowd watching which is very disturbing.
If there's a road runner teasing the dogs there's pretty much the exact same bark that they make when there's rabbits in the yard at night.
Of course out here in coyote country we have the morning and evening sing along with the coyotes as they wake up and go to bed. This is completely different though from the barking if one gets up close to the house or kennel which is again the same as if two dogs are fighting, disturbing and instantly identifiable.
Some dogs however are screwed up mentally, high strung and bark just to hear the noise I think, but in most cases I find that not to be the reason. More often than not I find that most nusiance barkers are simply doing it as you said for attention and the way to eliminate it is to either dont' let them get to feeling abandoned in the first place, and if you can't be there yourself to keep them working or entertained, get them a room mate! CR
I also agree about the different barks. I can tell you for example instantly that someone has just crossed the cattleguard about six hundred yards from the house by the sound of the dogs. I can tell you as well if they continue on down to the field, or cross the cattleguard coming into the place by the same barks.
If two dogs get in a fight and the other dogs start barking there's a definite different bark, from the crowd watching which is very disturbing.
If there's a road runner teasing the dogs there's pretty much the exact same bark that they make when there's rabbits in the yard at night.
Of course out here in coyote country we have the morning and evening sing along with the coyotes as they wake up and go to bed. This is completely different though from the barking if one gets up close to the house or kennel which is again the same as if two dogs are fighting, disturbing and instantly identifiable.
Some dogs however are screwed up mentally, high strung and bark just to hear the noise I think, but in most cases I find that not to be the reason. More often than not I find that most nusiance barkers are simply doing it as you said for attention and the way to eliminate it is to either dont' let them get to feeling abandoned in the first place, and if you can't be there yourself to keep them working or entertained, get them a room mate! CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people
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doublea
Interesting points here folks. However, I am curious as to how many of these "bark prone" dogs have been bred and of those that have how many of there offspring are showing the same traits? I know in my case I have one female (Nikki) that had 3 litters in her lifetime. Out of those three litters I have had pups that barked at exactly the same stimulus and at exactly the same irritating high pitch as their mom. Further her great grand kids have the same high pitched irritating bark. In short they sound and act for the most part exactly like Nikki. I also have one male in the kennel that will bark just to remind me that I might have forgot I left him behind in the truck. From my research, I have found that a good number of his half brothers and sisters do exactly the same thing (in this case one very famous stud dog has been fingered as being the responsible party). Further last year I had a couple of dogs in for training from Louisiana, both barked like crazy and both were genetically related, i.e., the sire to the male was the grandsire to the female. This spring I have one of their pups from last years litter in for training and she not only acts like her sire but she looks and barks like her mother. The totality of these circumstances as well as the fact that I have a very tight line breeding program has led me to believe there is a definite genetic connection for this barking business. I say this as in most all of the cases I have cited for you, the half sibs have never been kenneled together and in the case of the pups. They went to their new homes at 8 weeks of age and were in an only dog environment for the first year prior to training. Believe it or not, but there are times I can almost tell you the breeding of the dog based upon the sound of the bark and the reason behind it!
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WildRose
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I don't see where anyone said that there's not a genetic component involved in barking? Just that there's more definite environmental reasons such as neglect, excitement et. al that bring it out.
There's a difference as we pointed out between a nusiance barker that does so just to hear themselves and one that does so for a reason such as being left behind. I much prefer a dog that will bark to let me know he's ready to go, to one that just lays around and doesn't care whether he gets to or not. Excitement, a strong work ethic and lots of drive are things I strive for in my breeding.
Shadow is the calmest Male GSP I ever saw with high drive in the field and even he will bark if I load dogs up to head out to hunt or train and he's getting left behind, or if I leave him in the box while I run another brace he'll let me know he's still there ready and willing.
As I see it vocalizing is normal and genetic, it's only a problem when it's a nusiance which I consider to be inappropriate barking wtihout cause and/or at inappropriate times. CR
There's a difference as we pointed out between a nusiance barker that does so just to hear themselves and one that does so for a reason such as being left behind. I much prefer a dog that will bark to let me know he's ready to go, to one that just lays around and doesn't care whether he gets to or not. Excitement, a strong work ethic and lots of drive are things I strive for in my breeding.
Shadow is the calmest Male GSP I ever saw with high drive in the field and even he will bark if I load dogs up to head out to hunt or train and he's getting left behind, or if I leave him in the box while I run another brace he'll let me know he's still there ready and willing.
As I see it vocalizing is normal and genetic, it's only a problem when it's a nusiance which I consider to be inappropriate barking wtihout cause and/or at inappropriate times. CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people
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doublea
CR,
Go back and read my original post on this topic and you will see that I too made mention of the reasons dogs bark. However, the whole point to my postings thus far has been to show that there is a genetic link to the tone and frequency of that barking, i.e., some dogs are not as prone to bark as others. Further from my experience those quiet dogs are more apt to produce more quiet dogs, which in turn IMO seem to be easier to train as they tend to be calmer and more mentally stable than most of the very vocal animals I have been around over the years. This is just some of my observations over the years folks, use this information as you see fit as I am certainly not telling anyone what to do or not to do.
Go back and read my original post on this topic and you will see that I too made mention of the reasons dogs bark. However, the whole point to my postings thus far has been to show that there is a genetic link to the tone and frequency of that barking, i.e., some dogs are not as prone to bark as others. Further from my experience those quiet dogs are more apt to produce more quiet dogs, which in turn IMO seem to be easier to train as they tend to be calmer and more mentally stable than most of the very vocal animals I have been around over the years. This is just some of my observations over the years folks, use this information as you see fit as I am certainly not telling anyone what to do or not to do.