Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

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Ecw21
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Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Ecw21 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:51 pm

Hello all...I've been browsing the forum a lot recently and keep coming across the concept of style on point. I'm a relative bird dog newbie as I got my Britt only 18 months ago. I was just wondering what constitutes style. I'm guessing it is really just something you have to see to understand. I've read on here that some people feel that EPs and ESs tend look stylish because of their tail position. Interested to hear what us guys with tailless dogs should be looking for. For kicks, I included a pic of my 3 year old Chloe on point during a training. She looks good to me and I suspect that, ultimately, is the definition of style. :D

Really, I'm just antsy for the Illinois season to start next weekend. Any thoughts would be more than appreciated. Really enjoy learning from everyone here.

Cheers,

Eric
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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:06 pm

Ecw21 wrote:Hello all...I've been browsing the forum a lot recently and keep coming across the concept of style on point. I'm a relative bird dog newbie as I got my Britt only 18 months ago. I was just wondering what constitutes style. I'm guessing it is really just something you have to see to understand. I've read on here that some people feel that EPs and ESs tend look stylish because of their tail position. Interested to hear what us guys with tailless dogs should be looking for. For kicks, I included a pic of my 3 year old Chloe on point during a training. She looks good to me and I suspect that, ultimately, is the definition of style. :D

Really, I'm just antsy for the Illinois season to start next weekend. Any thoughts would be more than appreciated. Really enjoy learning from everyone here.

Cheers,

Eric
Your pup has it in my mind. And I do think it is pretty much whaqt looks good to you. I like to see the tail at the 10 to 11 position and intensity in the eyes and body. Thats about as good as it gets for me. Sure would like to see Chloe in the field. Bring her out west to Dixon and we can get you in to some preserve birds that are pretty darn good but hard to find many birds in this area.

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by BigShooter » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:54 pm

For me style is the expression of the dog's intensity when on point or working.

Great style is often defined as a look that is less commonplace. For example when a dog works with it's head to the ground or is closer to the bird when it is pointing the dog tends to have a lower head on point. When a dog runs with it's head up & scents the bird from a long distance off the head tends to be higher on point. Thus many feel a point with a high head looks more stylish. With the 12 o'clock tail, fewer dogs have the structure & musculature to pull off a 12 o'clock tail so the ones that have it are deemed a bit more exceptional or stylish. So style to some is like fashion, if everyone is wearing the same thing, who's the stylish one?

Really though if you see great intensity in a point you're seeing the best style that dog is capable of producing. As you said, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
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Will
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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Will » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:39 pm

Very well said, BigShooter. That sums it up for me in a nutshell also. Personally I love the 12 o'clock tail. To me it means style. More important than "style" to me though is intensity. I've seen some pretty weird looking points that certainly lacked "style" but were so intense it was just awesome to see.

My pup carries a 12 o'clock tail as he prances around, etc. At just 6mo old, however, he hasn't shown it on point yet. He is maybe at 10ish. I do believe this will change as his nose becomes more tuned and his confidence grows.
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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:27 pm

BigShooter wrote:For me style is the expression of the dog's intensity when on point or working.
That is VERY well put and I agree completely.

As far as the picture that was posted of the Britt on point, I have to say it looked pretty nice. It is impossible to get a true feel for the intensity from a picture, especially when you cannot see the "windows to the soul". The eyes telegraph the intensity, or lack of it and you really need to be there to see and "feel " it.

Back to the picture...If the dog in the picture was leaning just a tad forward, instead f standing square as it is, I would say that would be just about as good as it gets, in terms of style and demonstrating intensity.

I too prefer the looks of a longtail. That's why I got 'em. But that takes nothing away from the other breeds. A good dog is a good dog and you should run what makes you happy.

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by slistoe » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:21 pm

Intensity is the sin qua non, style is the icing. You can have an intense dog that is not stylish, you cannot have a stylish dog that is not intense. When you couple intensity with "pride" you have style.

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Neil » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:30 am

Scott got it right, it is a pride thing. Any dog can be trained to point, but to leave the intensity and style (pride) in takes some doing as Eric has shown. We didn't breed for a high tail, it just came along when we bred the best dogs to the best dogs.

Eric,

Please keep the dog's tail trimmed. Most find the feathering unacceptable. I run Brits, too, and what little bit of tail they have should be up like your Chloe's!

Neil

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Ecw21
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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Ecw21 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:40 am

Wow...Thanks for the response everyone. It is nice to know that she looks ok :)

Ezzy, thank you for the offer. I may have to take you up on that. We hunt some farmland that has some birds but not nearly enough for my taste. I don't trial Chloe but would love to see a britt (or any breed) trial...when do those start up in northern Illinois?

Neil, thanks for the advice on the feathering...I always forget to do that. Also, I am going to try to shave her ears down more this year as she gets terrible burrs in them. Do you do that as well and, if so, what blade should I use on the clippers?

Appreciate the kinds words about the dog. Thank you...I like watching her work and seeing her point. When she is on point, she basically shakes so I assume that goes along with the intensity you mentioned. Fun to watch.

Cheers,

Eric

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by tdhusker » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:07 am

Since the title of the thread asks, a high tailed setter point is the ultimate in my book. From there . . . any staunch point is a wonderful thing. Locked solid so that you know the payoff is waiting.

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Neil » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:11 am

Eric,

I clip the whole dog with a # 7 Oster, but don't do much with the ears. I do use a dematting tool, a series of razor sharp blades with a handle sold by Fosters, and other dog product co, do a google.

Neil

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Shadow » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:01 am

your pedigree speaks style

why don't you trim that tail just a bit and take another picture- good looking Britt

how about telling us a bit how she runs and handles

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Rick Hall » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:32 pm

Best definition I've seen is, "the manifestation of desire".
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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Kmack » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:51 pm

To me, style relating to the manner with which the dog covers the ground is more important than style on point. I'm not saying that style on point isn't nice also but if watching them run brings a smile to your face then you have something special in my opinion.

Your pup looks very nice to me too.

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by BigShooter » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm

Rick Hall wrote:Best definition I've seen is, "the manifestation of desire".
Rick,

There is an implication inherent in the phrasing of the original post and that is, looking at any particular breed of gun dog at work, in your opinion what criteria do you use to determine whether you think a dog has good or great style?
Mark

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by slistoe » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:03 pm

Kmack wrote:To me, style relating to the manner with which the dog covers the ground
Commonly referred to as "class".

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Rick Hall » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:17 pm

BigShooter wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:Best definition I've seen is, "the manifestation of desire".
Rick,

There is an implication inherent in the phrasing of the original post and that is, looking at any particular breed of gun dog at work, in your opinion what criteria do you use to determine whether you think a dog has good or great style?
"The manefestation of desire" would be working like means it. In my eyes even an old, crippled-up dog can demonstrate great style.
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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by 3Britts » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:02 pm

Style is in the eye of the beholder. Its when you look at a dog in motion or on point and say,
"That's what a bird dog looks like.
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Ecw21
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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Ecw21 » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:00 pm

Well said and much appreciated all. I agree 3Brits...My dog is a goofy pet and city dog for most of the year. But when we hunt and train, she becomes a bird dog and you can see the switch.

Thank you all for helping to frame my thinking on this.

Happy hunting,

Eric

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by Shadow » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:10 am

even if the tail isn't at 12:00 and they look tense- sometimes they're twisted in all sorts of shape
if they carry the head high and run with intensitity/purpose and then lock up- the position on point isn't all that important
Rick and 3Britt's say it well- imo

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by tdhusker » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:55 pm

Kmack wrote:To me, style relating to the manner with which the dog covers the ground is more important than style on point. I'm not saying that style on point isn't nice also but if watching them run brings a smile to your face then you have something special in my opinion.

Your pup looks very nice to me too.
Agreed. I've got a 3 yr old male setter right now that is something to behold when he is hunting grassy cover. Blazing speed and an effortless gait. A joy to watch work. I've had other dogs, other breeds, this one is something else to watch.

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Re: Dumb question...What does style mean to you?

Post by birddog1968 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:00 pm

Nothing better than seeing a high spirited bird dog floating thru the grass for sure.....

I dont believe any pictures actually capture real style.....and then style is, as said before "in the eye of the beholder".
I really see style on point as how the dog came into the point....that split second before the lockup. Some dogs have
a way of making that split second breath taking. Im really partial to fiddler/rebel cross pointers that way. Not to say
the Miller and Elhew dogs(or any breed) arent heart stoppers too but the F/R cross pointers really move with high style, almost like
a good horse that moves from smooth trot to a canter and back effortlessly.

This was one of those breath takers, but doesn't retain the moment well on film in my mind.
Image

Image

In the end tho what stops your heart is what is stylish.
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