Glycocharge

[hoosier]

Anybody use Glycocharge? Do you recommend it? I'm going on a 10 day hunt out west and thought I might give it a try.

http://www.lcsupply.com/Product/Medicin ... harge.html

[topher40]

Properly conditioned, fed, and hydrated dogs do just fine. Personally I see ALL these supplements as hoax's and quick fixes for the lazy pet owner that doesnt want to take the time or effort to do the most important thing for such a trip, CONDITIONING. No different than the many of the diet plans out there for humans, exercise and proper nutrition will do the trick, but thats to hard..... :roll:

[mcbosco]

I agree 100%, the only non-food supplement I use is an enzyme/probiotic supplement for general good health not for any training related reason. If your dog is in shape, the best fuel for it is protein and fat, unlike a human athlete. There are some food-based supplements out there like Annamaet Impact for convienance but frankly if your base feed is good, something simple like hard-boiled eggs or canned sardines/mackeral are valuable on a trip, or if you have a good cooler pieces of fatty beef or pork. I think its better to spend more money on the food. I know you guys snicker on the sardines but just try em once.

[Wagonmaster]

The sled dog people use glycocharge and like it, and they put major exercise demands on their dogs. I have tried glycocharge and my dogs don't like the taste of it in their water. They prefer clean cold plain water. I use Impact by the same company when we are hunting the dogs heavily. It goes on their food, not in their water, and adds calories and good nutrients, so helps keep weight on them.

The deal with "sport drinks" for dogs is that dog chemistry is different from human or horse chemistry. Humans and horses sweat alot, and in so doing lose electrolytes, so sports drinks are truly helpful for very active people, runners, cyclists, etc. But dogs sweat very little. They only lose moisture through their pads and tongues, not over their whole body. So they lose very little electrolytes and it is actually possible to harm a dog by giving them too much. Their chemistry gets too "salty." Dogs' exercise weakness is loss of blood sugar, or hypoglycemia. Dogs can actually go into convulsions because their brain sugar hits zero, I know, I had a dog afflicted with that once. It is sometimes called "hunting dog hypoglycemia." Glycocharge, in theory, is supposed to help replace those sugars, but like I said, my dogs don't want it. There are canine sport drinks now, with a much lower level of electrolytes and higher levels of glycogen (sugar). I have had limited success with them though.

[RayGubernat]

Wagonmaster said it.

There is hard scientific evidence that maltodextrin, which is the key ingredient in Glycocharge, I believe, given within 30 minutes of the cessation of a hard workout, will allow the glygogen levels in the bloodstream of the dog to recover much, much faster than without it. As I understand it glycogen in the blood is the vehicle which provides energy to the muscles in dogs and it gets depeleted with strenuous exercise.

As I recall from a seminar I attended, the glycogen level the following morning with Glycocharge was 95% of the normal level for that dog. Without the glycocharge it was something like 65% of normal. The short term recovery rate in glycogen levels was like 50% in 2 or 3 hours(I'm a little fuzzy on this one) but the recovery rate without the maltodextrin was like 5-10%.

My dogs also do not care for the taste. However, on a multiday hunt, there is no question in my mind, given the clinical evidence, that Glycocharge at the proper time, in addition to other measures can significantly improve a dog's ability to perform.
A high quality, high fat, high protein feed, that is wetted down and spiced with some meat or canned dogfood to entice a tired dog to eat its fill is probably just as important, as is a warm, dry, comfortable place to sleep.

RayG

RayG

[tommyboy72]

During hunting season and periodically throughout the summer me and the dogs drink flavored vitamin water you can buy from Wal Mart. To be more precise you can buy the powder mix from Wal Mart and just mix it in a couple of water bottles. It is the exact same stuff as Gatorade or Pedialyte just cheaper. It helps when you are out in the field and then when I get back to the Explorer I just give them plain water. They don't seem to mind the taste either.

[hoosier]

Thanks for the info.

[Big Dave]

Mackeral or sardines are about the only things that I use. I did like the old Purina bars when on a trip or hunting several days back to back.

[Rick Hall]

The later portion of this link, http://www.purinaproclub.com/sportingdo ... shment.htm addresses the science behind Glycocharge. Wouldn't do much for weekend dogs, but having used it with dogs worked hard on a daily basis, I would not be without it on an extended trip like you've planned.

(I've not had a dog that didn't like the "bait" in Glycocharge but count myself fortunate that my dogs will also lap down the much cheaper unbaited human version of straight maltodextrin sold as Carbo Gain.)

[Greg Jennings]

I tried glycocharge during the conditioning process. Seemed to work well. The dogs were able to take more conditioning. During the hunt itself, it seemed to help the dogs be fresher the next day. That said, I moved to different maltodextrin products that are less expensive.

My most recent experiment is using peanut butter flavor PowerBars. Cheap, easy to find, and the dogs like them. I haven't used them enough to have a guess on how they work for recovery.

[RayGubernat]

During hunting season and periodically throughout the summer me and the dogs drink flavored vitamin water you can buy from Wal Mart. To be more precise you can buy the powder mix from Wal Mart and just mix it in a couple of water bottles. It is the exact same stuff as Gatorade or Pedialyte just cheaper. It helps when you are out in the field and then when I get back to the Explorer I just give them plain water. They don't seem to mind the taste either.

This is an example of the stuff you should NOT be giving to your dogs, Too much of this type stuff can actually cause a problem. They do not sweat in the sense we understand it and therefore do not require electrolye replenishment as we do. The sugar gives them a boost, for sure, but so will a dollop of Karo syrup in water.


RayG

[mountaindogs]

blood glucose is their issue. They do also need water to help keep them cool. They loose alot of water panting if they are hot. If their mouth starts to get dry, they do not get as effiecient of a cooling efect from panting and will pant harder and longer. They pant less and smell the birds if they are cool and hydrated. One of the hunters here had a dog go into a hypoglycemic episode and collapse in the field. I had asked the vet about all these things after the fact (the dog was fine BTW and has never had that issue again though her owner takes more seriously the need to condition a dog before dumping them out for a 5 hour hunt) and the synopsis of what he said was. Carry honey or corn syrup with you, and always have wtaer. He specifically noted that honey comes in "straws" (for hot drinks like tea and coffee) that you can break open and squeeze into their mouth while they are still alert and responsive. If they should collapse, you should always be extra careful not to allow them to aspirate but can rub the honey under the tongue and on the outside of the gums and they will absorb some the sugar through the mucous membranes. Then take their body temperature. A dog can over heat and if their issue is not blood sugar but in fact that their core body temperature is too high, it can cause serious and lethal complications. Normal is 101.5 rectally, and you would expect a slight rise during extended hunting by a degree to a degree and a half at most.

Safe hunting - perhaps the vet's online will chime in and advise us.

[tommyboy72]

Thanks Ray now you hurt my feelings and I am sure you have your reasons for why you don't agree with me and that is fine but I see you are from Deleware and I am from wide open Oklahoma. When was the last time you hunted a dog all day long? I mean a solid 6-8 hours of hunting with maybe 45 minutes for lunch. When you hunt as many days a year as I do (50-60 or more in a 4 month period) and the temps. hover around 70 or 80 even in November and December and you hunt the type of country I do (mesquite, cactus, prickly pear, sand burrs, huge CRP plots) and you hunt running "wild" pheasant, blue quail and "wild bobwhites", and you hunt a dog as hard as I do then I will accept that what I do is wrong and what you do is the only right way of doing things. Here is an example of the country I hunt.























Sure doesn't look like any of those dogs are having any problems Ray. Nuff said, thank you. Forgot to add all those pics are from summer and fall training with the temps. around 85-95 degrees.

[fordman]

I was wondering how the sardines help? before I give them a try

[Neil]

I truly saw a benefit in the PUrina Endurance Bars, and tried the Glycocharge, and it worked about the same, but it was a pain to mix. (btw you can buy straight maltodextrin at do it yourself wine and brewing shops very reasonably, but you still have to mix it)

So I am now using the hunman (made by Nestle, owner of Purina) PowerBar Perfomrance Bars, sold at Sam's for about 75 cents each, the number 2 ingredient is maltodextrin, right after cane sugar. It only seems to help when you are running them a number of days in a row.

There is good science to support this. Use it or don't, but don't scoff at those that do,

Neil

[mountaindogs]

In the world of supplements, food, performance and showing... I WANT to hear what others say. I have been told things by educated professionals and seen results with own eyes that were contrary to what I was told. It's why I do try to share my own experience and love this site. There are times when listening to everyones say can give you something that works for your own needs better than you would ever expect.

[nitrex]

I love this stuff and the company will spend the time to talk you through the products. I have been able to cut the number of dogs I hunt in a day by half. And I can run them day after day with very little fatigue due to a lack of glycogen. The developers of this product are bird dog guys and trialers. Give them a call. I really like the "H" and the "R" products.

Elements Nutrition for Dogs

http://www.elements4dogs.com/

Nitrex

[Wlfdg]

I was wondering how the sardines help? before I give them a try

Protein and FAT! It's the primary energy source for canines. They only burn glycogen during their glycolytic phase, first 2-3min. of exercise. After that it is all fat.

Fat has more than twice the available energy of any sugar. In terms of say gasoline, glycogen/sugar is regular unleaded. Fat is rocket fuel.

Iditarod and Yukon Quest racers know this and snack their dogs on fat and "baited" water. In fact those dogs can't finish the race on dog food alone and are fed a mix of raw meat and a lot of fat.

Carbs are for sprints!

Fat is for endurance!
Same goes for human athletes.
Here is a picture of a winter wolf kill when wolves have to travel all day in deep snow. That requires a tremendous amount of endurance. They ate only the organs and the rear quarter. The organs are fat! Nature knows best!

This is a pretty typical kill for winter.