How to pick between breeds

Post Reply
jbo
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 11:35 am
Location: Mikado, MI

How to pick between breeds

Post by jbo » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:26 pm

I will be in the market next spring for a hunting dog, my problem is that I am having a hard time deciding between a few breeds, GSP, GWP, WPG, or a lab. Here is what I plan on using the dog for, upland hunting, waterfowl (warm and cold weather), and possibly working on blood tracking. I am completely undecided and I have been researching all breeds for almost 3 years now, I have almost send deposits on numerous pups but have been so aprehensive that I didn't. I have 3 small children (under the age of 5). I have lots of time to work with the dog since I am out in the woods when not at work, I should say the whole family is into being outside and at our hunting property almost every weekend.

I will be a first time sporting breed owner and will be my first attempt to train a dog with my wife and son's help.

My question is, how have you chosen the breed that will suit your needs the best when you have been in this situation.

User avatar
Ditch__Parrot
Rank: Champion
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:42 pm
Location: Land Of Ahhs

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Ditch__Parrot » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:39 pm

Just for starters I would start with deciding rather I wanted a pointing or a flushing breed. If you were to decide on flushing than lab it is (of the breeds you're considering). If you say pointing, than I would try to spend a little time with a few dogs of each breed if possible. Of the pointing breeds you have listed you will see a bigger difference between the WPG and a GSP or GWP then between a GSP and GWP. With those two there will be bigger differences between individual dogs than between the breeds themselves. (other than hair anyway LOL) Just my 2 cents


:twisted: OR, Not much of a decision. Just get a GSP !!!!!!!!! :wink: :lol: :lol: just kidding. Well sort of :lol:
Image

slistoe
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3843
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by slistoe » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:04 pm

Decide if you want a pointer or a flusher. Then decide which breed of dog you like to look at. Then find a breeder of proven field dogs for that breed. Buy a good pup from the most proven breeding you can.

The reality is that good dogs of any of the established breeds will function quite well for the vast majority of needs that any hunter wants to put them to. The other reality is that you will spend 95% of your time in the field looking at your dog and 5% of the time gunning over them, so you really should have a dog you enjoy looking at.

User avatar
ezzy333
GDF Junkie
Posts: 16625
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Dixon IL

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:45 pm

slistoe wrote:Decide if you want a pointer or a flusher. Then decide which breed of dog you like to look at. Then find a breeder of proven field dogs for that breed. Buy a good pup from the most proven breeding you can.

The reality is that good dogs of any of the established breeds will function quite well for the vast majority of needs that any hunter wants to put them to. The other reality is that you will spend 95% of your time in the field looking at your dog and 5% of the time gunning over them, so you really should have a dog you enjoy looking at.

So very true. And it cost no more to feed a good looking pup than an ugly one. Just be sure to get one from the type of dogs you like.

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

User avatar
birddogger
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3776
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: Bunker Hill, IL.

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by birddogger » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:48 pm

You have already gotten good advise, but I will just add this, if you can find a NAVHDA test close enough that you can attend, check it out. Observers are always welcome. You will see versatile dogs of all different breeds and meet people who will be happy to answer any questions you have. Other than that, I agree with previous posters about a breed that is pleasing to my eye.

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

jbo
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 11:35 am
Location: Mikado, MI

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by jbo » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:46 pm

Definately want a pointer, but I threw lab in there because I recently realized that duck hunting was a lot of fun and now I am hooked. On the other hand I find upland equally as enjoyable and I really would like a pointer for that.

decisions, decisions.

Oh well, time to find some dogs to watch work and decide what I want.

Anyone know any GWP or WGP breeders in michigan?

Muskmelon

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Muskmelon » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:30 pm

Consider your family circumstances before selecting a breed. If you can only have one dog for ducks, upland and kids, the lab would be your choice. That said, they are mediocre at best for finding and flushing wild upland birds (fantastic retrievers and game farm dogs). Pointers and springers will run circles around labs in a big open area where speed, endurance and a superior nose are required. Take your wife and kids to see how the adult dogs act in the house before you chose.

I have a lab for ducks and a springer for upland and they are different as night and day, both in the field and at home. The lab is calm and patient in the home, swims like a fish and is an excellent marker and retriever. She is in good shape and runs every day but still tires quickly on upland game (primarily pheasants) and does not do well in the heat. The springer is a Tazmanian devil in the field and wild at home as well. If you cannot run and mentally challenge a high end springer or pointer, they will destroy your home, your spirit and your marriage. That said, my springer is so amazing in the field that people stop to watch him hunt a field. It is like watching an olympic athlete fly through a field. He can run cattails all day and be rarin to go every day thereafter. My wife and boys love both dogs as well but you'd better be a dog family to deal with a field trial springer. Having 2 dogs helps a lot because they can run and wrestle together for at least 3 hours a day to burn off excess energy and stay in shape.

My hunting partner has always run English Pointers. See above Springer description and add more space for their longer legs. He now has a GSP, stronger but slower and less endurance than the English but again, they need lots of running and attention or you'll be hating life.

Good luck in your search!

midwestfisherman
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 781
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:51 pm
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by midwestfisherman » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:52 pm

There's a good WPG breeder in Michigan named Jim Seibel.

Here are some links to look at:
http://www.gundogbreeders.com/breeders- ... ennel.html

http://www.gundogbreeders.com/breeders- ... ennel.html

http://wpgca.org/

Jim Seibel, WPGCA Treasurer
17550 Seventeen Mile Road
Marshall, MI 49068

Jim.Seibel@wpgca.org
Image * Image

"Your best conservation tool is a well trained hunting dog"

Wilber
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:16 pm

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Wilber » Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:50 pm

I went through this same process a year ago. For me it came down to livability. You can only hunt 4 or 5 months a year and only once or twice a week if you're really motivated (and it's not far away). The rest of the time you've got a dog under foot in the house. A friend has a GWP that is a machine in the field and unfortunately at home too. I couldn't live with a dog so high strung.

So I focused my search on birds dogs that could also be family dogs (house dogs). This pretty much meant staying away from field trial lines. Every breed has them. I looked at GSP's, GWP's, WPG's, Gordon and English setters, and Pudelpointers. Frankly for what I wanted (grouse and pheasant with occasional ducks) the Pudelpointers sounded best, but I couldn't find a litter on the ground. I finally settled on Ryman line English setters. They were represented as calm in the house, active in the field though closer working that GSP's etc., and beautiful to watch. I can confirm that the pup I wound up with is all of these things and a natural retriever to boot.

You may prefer the look of sleek pointers or the wilder look of GWP's and Pudelpointers, but if you're going to live indoors with the dog find a breeder producing dogs for the home, not for a field trial.

Good luck. And whatever you wind up with, you and your kids will love it regardless.

Wilber

User avatar
mcbosco
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3577
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:22 pm
Location: Monmouth County NJ

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by mcbosco » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:21 pm

wilber very well said, I went with a Spinone for just those reasons...

jbo
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 11:35 am
Location: Mikado, MI

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by jbo » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:16 pm

Thank you for all the replies, I will definately be taking it all in and contacting some local breeders to see if I can meet with them and there dogs. Lots to think about and be preparing for.

User avatar
mcbosco
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3577
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:22 pm
Location: Monmouth County NJ

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by mcbosco » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:13 pm

Wilber wrote:I went through this same process a year ago. For me it came down to livability. You can only hunt 4 or 5 months a year and only once or twice a week if you're really motivated (and it's not far away). The rest of the time you've got a dog under foot in the house. A friend has a GWP that is a machine in the field and unfortunately at home too. I couldn't live with a dog so high strung.

So I focused my search on birds dogs that could also be family dogs (house dogs). This pretty much meant staying away from field trial lines. Every breed has them. I looked at GSP's, GWP's, WPG's, Gordon and English setters, and Pudelpointers. Frankly for what I wanted (grouse and pheasant with occasional ducks) the Pudelpointers sounded best, but I couldn't find a litter on the ground. I finally settled on Ryman line English setters. They were represented as calm in the house, active in the field though closer working that GSP's etc., and beautiful to watch. I can confirm that the pup I wound up with is all of these things and a natural retriever to boot.

You may prefer the look of sleek pointers or the wilder look of GWP's and Pudelpointers, but if you're going to live indoors with the dog find a breeder producing dogs for the home, not for a field trial.

Good luck. And whatever you wind up with, you and your kids will love it regardless.

Wilber

this is great post on the issue.

High Voltage
Rank: Champion
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 11:24 am
Location: S.W. Iowa

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by High Voltage » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:00 pm

Our dogs are also house dogs. We have 4 GSP's. They are out of "fieldtrial" lines and all are calm in the house. They are 7, 4, 2 and the youngest will be 2 in Jan. This past summer we have not been able to do much with them. They have been lucky to get a 20 min run a couple times a month, they are stilll good in the house. I think it just makes a differance which "lines" you get from. You could also look to NAVHDA dogs. BTW we had a lab that was a machine in the field and bounced off the walls in the house. We got our 1st GSP while the lab was still with us and people would comment on how the GSP was more a "lab" then the lab.

slistoe
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3843
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by slistoe » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:11 pm

There was a point in time when I had 10 dogs. 1 was a Field Trial Champion, 6 were Field Trial Winners and all were the strongest Field Trial lineage I could breed. All the dogs were kennel dogs - they did not have the benefit of long term learning of house manners throughout their development. I could and would bring all 10 of them in the house at the same time and be complimented on their comportment from anyone who was witness. Over the years I have produced some 300 pups, all from the best field breeding I could find (read proven field trial stock) and virtually all of those dogs have been sold to homes as primarily house pets. I have taken return of 4 pups in that time because the new owners felt that the dog was "too much" and was a "trial dog" in the wrong home. All four of those were shortly rehomed very successfully in houses where they lived their lives with no problem - three of them in homes with young children.

There is no problem with trial bred dogs living in a home.

User avatar
Winglish
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:25 pm
Location: Fields of Gold

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Winglish » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:17 pm

Just get the best WPG you can find and be done with it! They do everything you mentioned you wanted to do and are the smartest, best looking, most loyal, have the best breath (you don't know how to kiss a woman until you've been mouthed by a griff!), love children, gentlest, and everything else. :wink: The only thing is they are the slowest and closest working of the pointing breeds so you have to like a dog who works within eyesight most of the time and always checks in.

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Sharon » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:36 pm

Winglish wrote:Just get the best WPG you can find and be done with it! They do everything you mentioned you wanted to do and are the smartest, best looking, most loyal, have the best breath (you don't know how to kiss a woman until you've been mouthed by a griff!), love children, gentlest, and everything else. :wink: The only thing is they are the slowest and closest working of the pointing breeds so you have to like a dog who works within eyesight most of the time and always checks in.

Hmmm I'm speechless. :wink:
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

User avatar
Winglish
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:25 pm
Location: Fields of Gold

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Winglish » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:16 pm

Hmmm I'm speechless. :wink:
Aw, everybody's dog launches a surprise attack kiss once in awhile, don't they? Maybe you've seen that episode of Charlie Brown when Snoopy gets Lucy...She yells "Yuck! I've been kissed by a dog!" Let me tell you something, beagles are nothing compared to the griffon. Versatility takes on a whole new meaning. Can you imagine this face coming at you first thing in the morning? You won't find a more affectionate breed. :wink:
Image
Like Christmas and the flu, sometimes more than once per year is too much.

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Sharon » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:41 pm

That's a beautiful picture. I was just teasing you. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

User avatar
mcbosco
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3577
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:22 pm
Location: Monmouth County NJ

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by mcbosco » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:26 am

Winglish,

what's your Spinone's name?

sal

User avatar
bobman
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1369
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:45 am
Location: Georgia

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by bobman » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:02 am

Winglish wrote:
Hmmm I'm speechless. :wink:
Aw, everybody's dog launches a surprise attack kiss once in awhile, don't they? Maybe you've seen that episode of Charlie Brown when Snoopy gets Lucy...She yells "Yuck! I've been kissed by a dog!" Let me tell you something, beagles are nothing compared to the griffon. Versatility takes on a whole new meaning. Can you imagine this face coming at you first thing in the morning? You won't find a more affectionate breed. :wink:
Image

Hey buddy what are you doing posting a picture of my wife, looks just like her in the morning. :wink:

I liked the comment a few posts up that labs are "mediocre at best" for hunting pheasants, thats funny
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

User avatar
mcbosco
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3577
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:22 pm
Location: Monmouth County NJ

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by mcbosco » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:25 am

that pooch needs a little hand-stripping, lol

User avatar
Winglish
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:25 pm
Location: Fields of Gold

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Winglish » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:41 pm

Winglish,
what's your Spinone's name?
Griffon, man, he's a WPG. His official name right now is Scooby Dooby du Bois JH. I hope to change the initials at the end of his name soon. :wink:
that pooch needs a little hand-stripping, lol
That photo was when I was thinking of running him in some shows. Then I couldn't bear the thought of prancing around a ring so I said, "To heck with it!"
Here he is as of Monday or so with a Hun we took:
Image

PS, JBO- not trying to hijack your thread. Just pointing out what I believe is a great breed that would suit your needs!

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Sharon » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:16 pm

I think he read the comments about his hair. He looks ticked off in the above picture. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

jbo
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 11:35 am
Location: Mikado, MI

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by jbo » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:24 pm

hijack away, no problems here.

its all good, I am just here reaserching right now.

4dbird

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by 4dbird » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:40 pm

Upland, waterfowl, blood tracking, sounds like NAVHDA training day would be the place to start. They'll welcome you, you'll see a variety of breeds, all doing just what you're looking for. Note and consider the Deutsch Kurzhaars, Drahthaars, and Langhaars, they're bred to do everything on your list, the poor man's everything dog.

User avatar
yakky'sgriff
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:52 am
Location: brentwood,ca

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by yakky'sgriff » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:41 pm

Winglish wrote:Just get the best WPG you can find and be done with it! They do everything you mentioned you wanted to do and are the smartest, best looking, most loyal, have the best breath (you don't know how to kiss a woman until you've been mouthed by a griff!), love children, gentlest, and everything else. :wink: The only thing is they are the slowest and closest working of the pointing breeds so you have to like a dog who works within eyesight most of the time and always checks in.
I would agree with almost all of this...The part about the slowest and closest working pointer I wouldnt. I too have 3 children all 5 and under and he is great around them. I hunt upland and waterfowl and his natural ability has been great for my lack of training skill.

User avatar
mcbosco
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3577
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:22 pm
Location: Monmouth County NJ

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by mcbosco » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:51 pm

I have seen several WPG's and I would say they are slower and close (like my Spinone) but not slow and under your feet and frankly why does it matter? What's the rush?

slistoe
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3843
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by slistoe » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:38 pm

I like a fast footed dog so that I don't have to be. How fast the dog moves has nothing to do with how fast the hunter moves. Clocked ourselves with the GPS on one walk on Sunday and we covered 1 1/4 miles in just over an hour. Can't imagine anyone considering that to be a "rush". No idea how much the dog ran but it was somewhat more than that.

User avatar
Winglish
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:25 pm
Location: Fields of Gold

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Winglish » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:40 pm

I would agree with almost all of this...The part about the slowest and closest working pointer I wouldnt.
Slow isn't the right word. My dog can run like a rocket when he wants to. I guess his hunting style is more methodical than a lot of other dogs. He's very deliberate and thorough in his search. Not many birds get past him. I've watched my buddies' setters and pointers run through areas that held birds only to be found by the griffon as he methodically quartered the area. It's not that he's slower, but he moves at a slower pace while searching for scent. Does that make more sense?

User avatar
mcbosco
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3577
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:22 pm
Location: Monmouth County NJ

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by mcbosco » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:01 am

yes totally like mine, sniffs, stalks and tip toes....some don't like that way of hunting, which I can understand, but I enjoy it very much. With all that leg, he can trot endlessly at a quick pace as well.

Dirtysailor
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:19 am
Location: Grove City, PA area

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by Dirtysailor » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:08 am

"Note and consider the Deutsch Kurzhaars, Drahthaars, and Langhaars, they're bred to do everything on your list, the poor man's everything dog."

Have to reply to this. At one time they were the "poor man's everything dog". Now you need be rich to afford one from my research. Wish it wasn't that way.

User avatar
mcbosco
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3577
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:22 pm
Location: Monmouth County NJ

Re: How to pick between breeds

Post by mcbosco » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:55 am

i would luv to know what breeds are popular in the field in Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, etc...the hunting there is supposedly amazing. i have friends in germany that say hunting is a joke there, no public land, absurd license requirements, countless rules on what aged animals can be taken....my swiss friend here at the office says you have to sing a song after you shoot something in Germany or else you get fined... :roll:

Post Reply