Fair price for pups Pics added

[Rutroe]

My GSP recently had a litter of 11 pups. The sire is a good dog he is only 2. He hunts fairly good he would do alot better if he wasn't the first dog I tried to train. So I don't blame him for mistakes I made with him. I have his pedigree and it looks good with quite a few of his relatives certified hunters. The dam I bought in June. We didn't plan on her getting pregnant, but things happened. She has a great nose and can hunt like I wished my male would, but she hates the gun. Her pedigree was kind of intresting she has german pedigrees in her 4th and 5th generations. Since I am new to the whole bird dog club I don't know how to determine how much to ask for the pups.

[MillerClemsonHD]

put your pedigree's on here, http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/ and you will get some feedback on the lineage of your pups. There are many different titles a dog can earn and they all mean something different and impact what the pups would be worth. Start there and you should get some more feedback from the board.

[Rutroe]

Okay here is the pedigrees.

Carrolls Shotgun Maddie

Remington Dade

[r.r.rouse]

Rutroe, do you really want opinions? Brace yourself !!! Any health clearances? How big is your back yard? I hope you have lots of hunting buddies looking for a pup.

[dugger13]

I would honestly pay about 150 bucks, (top price) for a dog breed in this style. Most people who buy your pups are not going to care what the pedigrees say. Some may not even know how to read it.

[BigShooter]

Rutroe,

Maybe we could talk for a minute about what folks are looking for in a pup's background:

1. Proven parents & grandparents, especially if the buyer can see the parent's work well on birds
2. Pups from prior litters look good & are performing well
3. Health Clearances (e.g. certified good or excellent hips)
4. The majority of dogs listed in both the stud and dam's pedigrees are titled with major titles
5. Consistent, well thought through breedings designed to develop dogs with excellent, consistent traits
6. Hall of Fame dogs
7. Recommendations from well known pros or amateurs that know the dogs in your pup's backgrounds
8. Parents are physically built well & have good conformation, not too big or small, straight legs, broad - deep chest, etc. (Although this area is subject to lots of personal preferences)
9. Parent's versatility is natural if possible and proven ( point, retrieve, swim, etc. )
10. Parents have good or excellent style & intensity
11. Others may certainly add to this list

Pups with most or all of the above criteria are routinely advertised for $600 - $1,000 per pup. Pups that meet none or almost none of the above criteria are a dime a dozen, considered to be a back yard breeding and hold little value. If you don't feel confident your pups have a lot of value based on the above criteria, you might ask $200-$300, but be prepared to not stand firm on your price as you could end up feeding a lot of dogs. Generally, getting the first pick of the litter is worth a little more to buyers and females tend to get sold a bit faster than males.

Having said all that - the amount received is whatever a buyer is willing to pay.

[adogslife]

Did you write that you bred a bitch that doesn't like the gun?

At least you're honest but I would be very surprised if you sold a pup to someone who is looking for a hunting dog.

Sheesh!

[postoakshorthairs]

There was a local guy around my area last year that had an accidental breeding (his daughter let his male in with his female ...which happened to be the males daughter). Not understanding the ins and outs of the canine breeding cycle the daughter didn't think the female would be receptive at 1 year old. Long story short they were very well bred dogs on their own but neither had been cleared for hips etc. and neither had been trialed or tested. The female was just over a year and was a good dog for her age. The sire was an outstanding wild bird dog. Couple that with the father/daughter breeding and I told him to give them away if he could or sell them cheap. He started high (500) and ended up selling all of them for 200 a piece. Accidents happen but don't get greedy. Be honest with perspective buyers and you'll find them good homes, hunting or otherwise.

[Greg Jennings]

Did you write that you bred a bitch that doesn't like the gun?

At least you're honest but I would be very surprised if you sold a pup to someone who is looking for a hunting dog.

Sheesh!

In the original post, he said it was an accidental breeding.

[Ron R]

rutroe, you stated that the sire "hunts fairly good" and the dam "hates the gun". I would say free to good home.

As far as puppy prices go I think that a well bred litter without a Champion sire should go for $300 to $400 if both sire and dam are Ch sired and are proven/broke birdfinders.

For a Ch sired litter, the pups should be $500 to $700. JMO

Ron

[adogslife]

If she hates the gun she should have been nuetered so 'accidents' don't happen.
Seems to me a male and female were purchsed with the possibility of a future bredeing,based on how the original poster feels about the pedigrees and abilities of his dogs, I get a different feeling then what was stated.

If my gut feeling is wrong,my apologies.

[Rutroe]

I do beleive all your opinions are fair and honest. As for Maddie the dam I think I need to tell a little more about her. I did buy her with the chance to breed, but wasn't sure if I was going to. Where I got her from was a bad place. I mean like Micheal Vick bad. She coward every time the guy said something to her. When I looked at her she had a cut on her leg and just wasn't a happy dog. I took her immediately to a vet to have her patched up and a complete check over. The vet said that she was in the final stage of heat and she wouldn't be able to get pregnant or be able to get spayed. I wish I had known a little more about breeding of dogs but I thought I had a proffesional vet. Boy was I wrong. I was starting to work with her after we got her and she does have everything but the gun down. She finds birds fast and she is pretty on point. I was waiting to work her on the gun after the pups were born. I didn't want to stress her out while she was pregnant. So everyday this week she has been in the field and she is doing alot better than I thought she would be just after a week. I do appreciate the responses I did get and they were honest I like that. So far my plan is to sell 10 and keep 1 for my three year old son. The price I was going to ask is right inline with what you guys said so it must be fair.

[bobman]

I would be happy to find them good homes with hunters even if I had to give them away

good luck with the female she sounds like shes worth fixing very kind of you to make the effort

[rosiesdad]

I always think of selling cheap ($50-75) just to keep someone from taking a dog cause its free. If they pay something they are liable to really want the pup and put some effort into it.
Free isnt so good, IMHO unless you know the person real well.

[bobman]

I always think of selling cheap ($50-75) just to keep someone from taking a dog cause its free. If they pay something they are liable to really want the pup and put some effort into it.
Free isnt so good, IMHO unless you know the person real well.

I agree with that 100% but like you pointed out if you have a person you know and trust that hunts knows dogs and wants one I would give him one

[bobman]

the fact that the dam hates the gun could very easily be man made, usaully is, so i would NOT let that be a big obstacle

what color are they??

[setterbud]

do you have pictures, how many of male/female, color, shots age etc how big are the sire and dam

you probably could have already sold a couple of them, remember the bigger they get, the more they eat and the harder they will be to sell good luck

[Rutroe]

Okay here's the first pictures of the pups without momma. There are 4 females and 7 males.

These are the girls:





These are the boys:

[Two Bears]

Nice looking pups, but they seem a little camera shy

[kerplunk105]

Any pictures of the parents?

[Rutroe]

Here are the best pictures so far of the parents:

Maddie is on the left and Remington is on the right. The pic of Maddie 4 days before she gave birth. I am going to try to get some better pics after the downpour we've been having. Maddie is starting to get her girlish figure back. It's amazing what 11 pups will do for you.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Most of the time when a dog is gun shy, it is man made not genetic. I would look into the "hates the gun" story a little further. You would be amazed what people do to their pups to "see if they are gun shy or not".

[remmy]

Gun Shyness is ALWAYS man made. It is not genetic. There is no fear in genes.

[BigShooter]

I think this thread has taken a turn for the worse. The poster is a new comer, was honest & explained what he could. He had even been told by a vet the female couldn't get pregnant at this time and he relied on that advice. All he wanted to know now was what we thought might be a fair price to ask for the pups.

Why don't you guys take the "should you intentionally breed a gun shy dog" diatribe to another thread?

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Why don't you guys take the "should you intentionally breed a gun shy dog" diatribe to another thread?

Good Point! No offense intended on my part. I think it struck a nerve with some of the more experienced dog people.

I think a pup is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. The prices of well bred dogs tend to get higher on each coast. I paid a premium for a pup sired by a Natal Champion and the Dam was runner-up Natal Champ the prior year. The pup made sense to me for my breeding program and I know it will strengthen my line.

Right now I have two litters on the ground with very good field champ breeding but I am selling them at a lower price that I did the prior year. The economy is what it is.

[birddogger]

It is true that all the original poster wanted opinions on was what would be a fair price for the pups. I will admit I don't have a clue but would just like to say that it may be true that all gun shy dogs are man made, however, if you have a very soft dog, it could easily become gunshy if the handler is not very, very careful. I would not want to buy a pup from that litter, if that is the case. That may not be the case and if this has already been mentioned, I apologize, I did not read all the previous posts.

Charlie

[twofeathers]

I have a freind who would really like a female.

[twofeathers]

I have a freind who would really like a female.

Puppy........that is.

[Sir Buckwheat]

Pedigrees only mean so much. I'd advertise them for $200-$300 bucks and you should be able to get rid of them all. The parents are nice looking dogs. The German lines in the dam will help them out too. I had a big male that had German lines on one side, he was a great dog. Most of the trialers on here would have drewled over him as long as I didn't show them his pedigree.

Good looking pups. If you have trouble getting rid of them let me know, I may know a few guys that are looking that would be willing to pay shipping. Oh and when people are looking at the pups don't mention the gunshyness issue with the dam. It is a man made problem that can be corrected, but the average Joe doesn't know or understand that.

[twofeathers]

I am sorry but I really like this forum, I have learned a lot. But from some of these posts you should probably understand something. Some of the major posters on here are excentric, sorry if I spelled it wrong. Not everyne spends as much money or can, as ones that may have responded. I have been in the dog buisness before with a different breed .... Beagles. I have had dogs that out perform dogs that have had lots of money and awesome lineage. They did not .... so when my beagles did better than the dogs around them I got treated like the "red-headed step child" if you will. So don't take everything to heart, some put their money before anything else.; Also I think a dog taken from a pup in your situation could be one of the funnest dogs to hunt over, with proper love and training. Remember not everyone here actually hunts their dogs. Some are just investments.

[dugger13]

Holy smokes did thread ever evolve. I hope the new comer isn't scared off.

Anyway, I think he question is definitely answered somewhere in here. One thing is for sure. You never really know what kind of dog you are going to get. Your chances are greater if you stick with a proven breeding pair, but who knows, one of these dogs could be a great hunting dog, or all of them.

[Rutroe]

I truly can't beleive that this was such a difficult question. I almost roll on the floor everytime I read this post anymore. Apparently I have commited some kind of a crime, because I bought a female GSP with the thought of breeding. Let me repeat the facts of this case. First I got her from somebody that had NO business having her. She was living in bad conditions. Me and my wonderful wife thought we could atleast provide her with a better life. I was told that she had trouble with a gun, but didn't know what it was from man or gentic. I was also told she was only two years old. I would have checked her papers at the time, but he had to have his exwife mail them to me. Second I took her first thing to a VET to have a 3" cut on her leg stapled up. I was informed by a VET that she appeared to be in the last stage of a heat cycle and she wouldn't be able to get pregnant at this time. I guess trusting a VET that is supposed to be educated on these things was the wrong thing to do. Not ever owning a female dog before I didn't start educating myself until after we figured out she was pregnant. I know my fault too. I do take complete responsibility for my mistakes or action always. I will never lie to sell a pup nor will I ever mislead anybody. My word is my bond. If you read any of my post I never have retracted or changed anything. I do respect anybody's opinion on training or raising champion dogs. I someday hope to be able to finish out one of my dogs to the point I think it would be able to compete with you all. I don't know if it'll be one of these pups or my male. For getting her certified with her health I never knew I needed to do that. So again I appoligize to all the profesional breeders that do this for a living that my dogs don't meet your standards. I love my dogs. They greet me everyday when I get home from work. My three year old son loves to run the dogs with me and my wonderful wife told me if we can't get good hunting families homes we will keep them. We are getting Maddie neutered as soon as we can not because somebody on here told me too, but because she had dificulty during the welping due to size of litter and age. Now as for the gunshy problem I think I am okay on that seeing how I have been hunting doves over her every night this week. She still gets a little stressed when the gun goes off, but she don't run she just stands there and looks at me til I give her the dead bird command. I don't think she will be completely fixed ever, but I think her better living condtions are giving her confidence back.

[birddogger]

Don't be offended Rutroe, I don't believe the comments are meant to be personal. Some of these topics just seem to evolve and escalate until the original thread has turned into something different. It is just that most of the members on here are passionate about gundogs, including myself, and the discussions sometimes get a little heated. I believe, for the most part, it is a good thing.

You were talking about dove hunting with your dog and described her reaction to gunfire. It doesn't sound to me like she is gunshy. I would call it a little gun sensitive, which with a little care and patience can be overcome.

JMO, but since this was an accidental breeding and you don't know that much about the quality of the dam, you may want to consider giving them away. If you can sell them, that is great but having a litter of pups on your hands is a bad situation to be in and each day they grow gets worse.

Oh, BTW, good for you for rescuing and taking care of the dog!!!!!!!!!! I wish you the best!!

Charlie

[mountaindogs]

There's alot to getting good puppies. Pedigree matters some, Health matters alot, and upbringing also matters ALOT. You have what you have, you can't change the pedigree and health at this point but you can get all the pups checked, keep them well vaccinated and dewormed AND SOCIALIZE the heck out of the. I don't mean the kids playing with them, I mean exposure to the tall grass, woods, creeks, get em properly introduced to some birds, to water and full of themselves. Get them started on coming back to you to a command or whistle, and play retrieving, Maybe used to being alone in a crate. If you do all that you'll find better homes, and the pups will fit into their new homes with little trouble. Many very very well bred puppies miss this part and sadly it sometimes shows in what they become.

My first litter was not so outstanding and I did not know about all the health clearances I do now, but live, learn and do the best by every dog and puppy you ever have. If you truly put the puppies first people will see and if you decide you love birddogs learn as much as you can all the time. Your female can make a good dog. Look hard at AKC hunt tests. When she is good with the gun but a JH on her and see if you get addicted like the rest of us. Also Check out the Canine Health Information Center http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/ They have the German Shorthaired Pointer health clearnace reccomendations and you can read about the issues each may cause. Also check out http://www.offa.org

Best wishes

[r.r.rouse]

Rutroe, I warned you back on page one. Everybody has an opinion! I saw this coming , if you ask for opinions you will get them. So like them or not you did ask!!

[BigShooter]

Rutroe, I warned you back on page one. Everybody has an opinion! I saw this coming , if you ask for opinions you will get them. So like them or not you did ask!!

r.r.rouse,

I'm not sure what your point is other than letting us know how satisfied you are with being right.

On the other hand if your intention is to warn newcomers that GDF is a forum where you may very well get flamed if you ask a question without understanding how controversial it might be, then IMHO that just discourages people from asking questions. While we want to encourage reasonable debate I don't think we want to discourage any questions, especially from relative newcomers.

[tommyboy72]

Does every "professional breeder" on here mean to tell me that every litter ever bred by them or any other successful breeder was intentional? BULL$#!T. First off how many of you are truely "professional breeders"? Being a professional at anything constitutes that that is your profession, your one and only job period. Since the majority of you breeders tell all of us, me included that you never make a dime on breeding dogs then unless you live on welfare, wic, food stamps, and social security then you must have some other job meaning that you are not a "professional" dog breeder at all but a well informed hobbyist or a semi-professional which means that you do this as a side job just like semi pro football players also sack groceries at the local supermarket. Secondly not every champion dog, litter of champions, big time producer, or even national champion was out of a proven pairing that was planned out and executed to a T by the breeder. You are lying to the forum and to yourself if you believe this. Even Ferrell Miller and Robert Wehle started somewhere. Do you think they said ha I have this proven mating pair of Elhew pointers or I have this proven pairing of mating Miller bred dogs so I think I will breed them and start my own line of English Pointer hunting dogs. Give me a break. These guys experimented. Yes they used proven dogs but not proven mating pairs of dogs. The dogs they used had to be tried as a mating pair for the first time sometime. Do you think the first Miller line dogs or the first Elhew line dogs had health certificates guranteed on them or money back gurantees if they turn out not to hunt? No. Would you ask God for a health gurantee or your money back if your child turns out to be a band nerd instead of an athlete. Half that is up to the owner and the trainer and how they are socialized at a young age and trained. Give this new guy a break. He is trying to make the best out of a bad situation and he seems to be getting a lot of flak for it. I wish you the best with your litter and either selling them or giving them away. Just think of how many national champion and champion trial dogs were free dogs that were given to trainer/trialers to look over.