Hickox or Perfection Kennels

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MTBirdHunter

Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by MTBirdHunter » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:14 am

I have been training a shorthair pointer, I usually only do labs, and a friend of mine showed me his new George Hickox DVD about training pointing dogs. I have seen the Perfection Kennls style of training and I really like it. However, Hickox's way seems like it is a little more city style training. By city style I mean that he seems to teach steady to wing and shot by using different methods that dont require "as" many birds. So those of us that live in more urban areas might be able to keep less birds. I ask this because I cant keep enough birds around my place to train my shorthair. Sh is approaching the green broke stage and her progress is terrific. Which style do you guys adhere to more? After watching the two videos I came to the conclusion that I have used odds and ends from each of the training styles but have used the more non invasive style ie. perfection kennels way of training.

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stetson82
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by stetson82 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:58 pm

i am not real familiar with the hickox. it has been my experience the number of birds builds repetition. although i believe there can be to many and you turn your dog into a robot. the number of birds in the video is not needed 4-5 birds a day is plenty there fore if you can keep 6-8 you will be fine. there are alot of people that try to skimp on birds . i think it takes birds to make a bird dog. maybe not very helpful but i have seen alot of good dogs come out of perfection kennels and they do start to finish in 90 days..

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nitrex
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by nitrex » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:09 pm

I like the Hickox dvds and I have attended 2 of his seminars over the past 7 years. I'm not sure what you mean about Hickox's use of 4-5 birds?? The videos do not show every day of training, but are just an outline to training a bird dog. Every dog Hickox has in training will see hundreds of birds over the course of the first year or so. Between his months of training and hunting quail in the south during the winter and running on the Montana prairies in the summer, dogs in his program see more birds than most dogs do in a lifetime.

The dogs that come out of his program are truly first class. He develops dogs to a level that few have ever achieved. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Nitrex

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bhairhoger
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by bhairhoger » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:16 am

MTBirdHunter, I think I know what you mean. Hickox's method does a lot of work with the pigeon pole. You can use the same bird over and over. The dogs still get to see a lot of birds but you only need to keep a couple on-hand because you can reuse them.
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stetson82
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by stetson82 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:40 am

i f you have only a few birds you only need to use 4 or 5 a day and when they return to the coop use them again the next day. didnt mean that hickock didnt use as many birds but if you follow the perfection video you will see them use 30 - 40 pigeons per day on a dog you can use a couple a day and reuse the same birds is what i had meant.

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nitrex
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by nitrex » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:13 pm

The Hickox "method" does use the pigeon on a pole, but if you think you will save some money on birds using his method - you are mistaken. To do it right you will need hundreds of birds. The pigeon on a pole exercise is just a small part of his training program. Birds make a bird dog. I believe Hickox will tell you "no birds, no bird dog!" IMO if you want a good bird dog, than you will need to buck up and spend the money on birds. If you can save a few bucks using the pole, than great, but you will need many more.


Nitrex

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briarpatch
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by briarpatch » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:07 am

I havent seen either of those particular videos but sounds very familuar to many things I have read and videos I have seen,

just food for thought my pups had abit of quail on a pole work and it may have helped some, but they very quickly realized HEY I KNOW THIS GAME WHEN DAD GETS OUT THE POLE I GOT TO BE STEADY AND NOT MOVE :lol: and tend to quickly forget the same when the pole wasn't in my hand and the bird was just planted, smartbut little buggers :evil: to smart some days :roll:

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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by RBraddy » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:00 pm

i have the perfection videos and they are very effective

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Ruffshooter
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by Ruffshooter » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:03 am

I have not seen the new Hickox DVD but in, I think, 99 or 98 I went to his seminar, no pigeon pole, no clickers, used Inotek collars and all the accessories, (I still have mine) Collar on the neck, don't remeber if he mentioned using them on the flank, Used the crate and whoa barrel, lots of birds etc.

Sounds like things have changed, he has evolved his training methods some. I quess you have to keep things fresh and new for marketing.

I liked his simple no nonsense approach, very systematic and easy to vary per dogs sensabilities. The guy knows his stuff.

I here good things about the Perfection DVD also. Just stick to one and it will work.

Rick
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Rick

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Richard *UT*
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by Richard *UT* » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:45 pm

I have both Videos, I liked Hickox because it seemed like a very approachable way to train. I liked the idea of getting the gun and the birds out of the way first, before investing too much time on a dog that has a problem with either. In the end I chose the perfection method because, first, a guy I train with recomended it and as this was my first training experience, I just do what I am told. I realy like a dog that points at first scent. That is my take on both. Good luck
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nitrex
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by nitrex » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:05 am

Ruffshooter,

Glad to hear you attended a Hickox seminar, but not too sure he changes his method for "marketing" purposes. He has a good program as do many other pros, but is constantly learning how to improve.
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I spoke with George the other day about a few things and glad to say that his basic method is the same as it always has been, but he has refined or added several things over the years such as clicker training, using the pigeons on poles, and several other things. I appreciate his desire to learn and not just train the way he did 25 years ago. Just like I don't want my doctor to use only the knowledge he had years ago to treat me now that new things have been found to be more effective.

I can't say anything about the perfection kennel videos as I haven't seen them all the way through, nor have I used what I have seen. I think the key is to find a program you like and stick with it to the end.

Nitrex

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Ruffshooter
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Re: Hickox or Perfection Kennels

Post by Ruffshooter » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:32 am

Nitrex, Thanks for the info and opinion. My only point is that his methods originally were very effective and I do not see the need for clickers it is just another thing to worry about carry around, get the timing right etc. We have used the pigeon pole for years in NAVHDA for demonstrations and some of us to get puppies jump started on pointing.

Admittedly, I have never seen or done his new methods or as I stated seen the new videos, (I only heard he used these and read some articles he wrote) I am sure as with all he does he has made a place for the new methods and as you said evolved his training to include them. I am also sure that he has made it all effeicient and fairly easy for low broughs such as my self to use.

How is he doing and where has he stationed himself?

Thanks,
Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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