pointing labs?

[collinedward]

Have anyone ever had a pointing Lab? Just wondering how easy they are to work with..

[naperdog]

I am not surprised that you aren't getting responses to this question. From what I gather 99% of the folks here don't believe in pointing labs. Before I continue with what I know, let me warn you that I am very inexperienced in owing dogs and even more inexperienced with labs. Now that being said let me go on.

I have been hunting for 10 years (all pheasant), nearly every hunt I had ever been on was with my uncles GSPs. Last year my wife and i were finally in a position to get a dog. I wanted a GSP to hunt with, mostly because i wanted a pointing dog. Unfortunately she would have no part of a GSP or Weim or Brittany or Viz. We finally settled on a lab so at least i could have a hunting dog, albeit a flusher. I told my uncle that i was going to be looking labs and mentioned that he had seen adds in his gun dog mag for 'pointing labs' I had never heard of these but was intrigued. While researching the 'pointing lab' I learned that most gun dog people didn't believe in them. I didn't really believe it myself, but if I was going to buy a lab, i might as well pick one up that might point, or at least hesitate for a while before flushing a pheasant.

I found a breeder and bought a 4 month old pup in October. I brought him out several times with my uncle and his GSP from the very beginning. ONe thing we noticed early on was that my dog would go and stand behind the GSP when she is on point. My lab wouldn't point himself but he was defiantly honoring. After a couple trips to the field my pup finally started finding and flushing pheasants. I was a happy camper in that i had a dog that would find birds. After 7 or 8 trips my buddy and i had Kona (my lab) in the field and he had already flushed up a couple of birds (we shot at and missed them.) I was very proud of my little pup and was happy he was performing well in front of my friend. A little more time passes and I see Kona standing still and i was wondering what he was up to. As i got closer i realized the little dog was locked up hard on a point. I'll called my buddy over to look and he saw the same thing. Over all this time the little pup didn't move a muscle until I went in and flushed that bird up. SInce then i have seen that dog point several more pheasants and throw staunch honor points with Abby the GSP.

Sorry for the long winded background but I wanted to address the 'are there pointing labs' question a little bit since I'm guessing you weren't aware of it. My current belief is that there is no such thing as pointing labs, but I do believe that there are labs that point. I also believe that the number of labs that point are probably increasing because there a lot of breeders working hard at it.

As far as working with them, I can only comment on my one experience and will say that training Kona has been pretty easy. He is a great dog that likes working for me and I don't regret having him instead of any other dog. There are a few obedience things that we will be working on during the off season but he has been great!

[Benny]

I don't know a thing about "pointing labs" but I sure am seeing a lot of folks running labs on the upland prairie. They work just as hard as any other dog. I'm surprised myself, labs don't look like they have the stamina, but they keep up.

[fire angel]

I love my lab. She has been very trainable and has pointed birds from the day that I brought her home. She hunts close which some frown upon, but I like my dog close and under control. She is 7 years old I and I could not be happier. Great dog at home and in the field.

[collinedward]

I thinking of getting one maybe..After purchasing a 6mnth old gsp from a breeder that has been a total disaster ,I am thinking of taking him back for a pointing lab.

[texscala]

Just wondering what kind of birds you are planning on going after? If you are hoping for any kind of range I can't imagine a pointing lab getting the job done. I could be wrong though.

[naperdog]

colline,

i love my lab and am very grateful for him and if you want one, go for it. Labs in general are great friendly dogs, but i wouldn't let one bad GSP experiance scare you away from GSPs. While I know there are labs out there that will point, i also know that you can't expect them to point. Don't be disappointed if yours just ends up being a flushing lab.

If you do decide to go the lab route let me know and i'll give you the info for my breeder, they are great people and they have turned out many pointing labs.


also here is another forum that might interest you, I found out about it here.

http://www.pointinglabforum.com/

[collinedward]

I already have a perfect 5y/o GSP. I bought the 6mnth old thinking he was pretty much ready to go, but was lied to . Instead I have a 8 month old "bleep" cat that is scared of people and almost everything . He has no interest in hunting .So instead giving my money back I can either trade in him back or just keep him. The breeder just had a litter of pointing labs . I would rather have another gsp but they are too far out for me to waite for. Has anyone used a pointing lab for field and ducks before? Is that possible?

[Flush]

I do not own pointing labs but have seen some in action. The thing that I have seen is that pointing labs will indeed point, but not neccessarily consistently. What most pointing lab owners I know say is that if birds sit tight their dogs tend to point them, but if the birds run, their PL will flush them. This works fine for some guys and they want their dog within gun range most of the time. Personally I like pointing dogs that range out so that wouldn't work for me so well. I want the dog to hold point, or relocate without flushing the bird at every contact. Yes sometimes all pointing dogs flush birds, but most when they are mature don't TRY to flush the birds it happens by accident. What seems to be more common with pointing labs is the "point" is a sometimes thing, sometimes they flush and sometimes they point depending on the situation. Now I'm sure some pointing labs probably point every single time, but I have seen enough PLs and talked to enough owners to know that would be the exception not the rule. So I think it comes down to what you want, for some guys the PLs seem to work great. For the most part from what I have seen with PLs is that people hunt them like a normal lab with the "bonus" of sometimes getting a point depending on how the birds act. On the flip side, I think if you want a dog that hunts just like a English Pointer or Setter (or good GSP) but in the form of a Lab, you will likely be dissapointed.

As far as Labs hunting on the prairie, sure they can, but you need to be realistic. There is not a English Pointer alive that could break ice and do cold water retrieves in the dead of winter for geese like a good lab can. Conversly Labs can't cover the ground or maintain the speed of good Pointer on the prairie when it's 60+ degrees out. Labs may keep up with the hunters on the Prairie and you can certainly hunt them there, but there is not a Lab alive who could keep up with the good Pointers and Setters on the prairie, especially if the temps are above 60 as they often are while prairie hunting. They are both "tough" breeds but they simply have very different physical makeups that make them excel at different things.

[naperdog]

Flush, I think that is very well stated very well.

[Bailey]

I don't know a thing about "pointing labs" but I sure am seeing a lot of folks running labs on the upland prairie. They work just as hard as any other dog. I'm surprised myself, labs don't look like they have the stamina, but they keep up.

They cant keep up with pointers. Yes a lab will go when running at 50 even 75 yards and will probably keep up. But when it comes to running at 150, 250, 300..... labs are not built to run like a GSP, Setter or Pointer is.

I am not a big believe of the pointing labs simply because back when I was looking at buying a dog I looked at pointing labs. Almost all the breeders were asking for the puppies back at about 6 months for "pointing" school. Basically they were teaching the dog to point. Heck anyone can teach a dog to point , doesnt even have to be a gun dog.

I would say if you were wanting a pointing breed and your wife doesnt like the shorthair breeds look at a Setter or German Longhair Pointer or Longhaired Weimaraner.

[ezzy333]

I think Flush and Bailey are exactly right. Another way to explain it is they are Labs with the same characteristics as any other Lab. The one difference is they tend to point instead of flushing. However, their point lacks a lot of intensity and is more of a stop and stand rather than an intense point. It seems to me that the lack of intensity is improving as the breeding is getting further down the road. But they are still a heavy built and heavy coated dog that are great in water and do well in the field as a close working gun dog for a walking upland hunter. But they can not range like the regular pointing breeds and they can't do as well with handling heat. They are just another option that is out there and if their qualities meet your desires go for it. But do not get one thinking it is the same as a GSP or any other pointing breed.

Ezzy

[Bailey]

I agree with ya ezzy. If you lived in a cold climate and did alot of pheasant hunting and waterfowl a Pointing Lab would be great. The thick coat would allow the dog to handle the cold temperatures and water.

[rockllews]

Pointing lab or not, imho you should find a different breeder. You said this gsp pup doesn't have the training or temperament you were under the impression that you were buying, and that you were LIED to. That's not exactly a trait of a good breeder. On top of that it sounds like he's not had a decent upbringing/socialization with that breeder. Why support his business?

[postoakshorthairs]

by rockllews on Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:51 pm

Pointing lab or not, imho you should find a different breeder. You said this gsp pup doesn't have the training or temperament you were under the impression that you were buying, and that you were LIED to. That's not exactly a trait of a good breeder. On top of that it sounds like he's not had a decent upbringing/socialization with that breeder. Why support his business?

I thought the same thing, but I can understand that he feels like he got taken for money with not much to show for it and it's worth a shot to at least get a dog that might turn out to be a useful hunting companion versus what he has now.

[ezzy333]

by rockllews on Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:51 pm

Pointing lab or not, imho you should find a different breeder. You said this gsp pup doesn't have the training or temperament you were under the impression that you were buying, and that you were LIED to. That's not exactly a trait of a good breeder. On top of that it sounds like he's not had a decent upbringing/socialization with that breeder. Why support his business?

I thought the same thing, but I can understand that he feels like he got taken for money with not much to show for it and it's worth a shot to at least get a dog that might turn out to be a useful hunting companion versus what he has now.

My first thought also but then thought if the breeding is ok the pup will be young enough it shouldn't be messed up by neglect. I do think it is something worth some thought before just jumping in again.

Ezzy

[collinedward]

If I could get my money back I would . But my only choice is to get a different dog from the breeder. The only reason I asked about pointing labs is that he has a litter now, GSP pups are still 8 to 12 weeks out.

[dirtdober]

The only reason I asked about pointing labs is that he has a litter now, GSP pups are still 8 to 12 weeks out.

I would wait to get the breed you really wanted since you will have this dog for around 12 years, a few more week don't mean a lot. Unless you want a lab for other reasons, such as waterfowl. I have never used flushing dog for pheasant but hear they work great so maybe get the lab and let it do what it's born for.

Gary

[dirtdober]

After reading the tread I am wondering if the this next litter of GSP's are the same breeding as the one you already have? With its lack of desire to hunt, I would stay away from them and just take a loss of money. Unless you want to go the lab route

Gary

[collinedward]

WIth a lack gamebirds in Ohio a pointing lab might be what i am looking . If I could use him to hunt ducks and gamebirds that would be awesome.HAs anyone done that ?

[fire angel]

I don't hunt waterfowl, but train for hunt tests and do a lot of upland hunting with my pointing lab.

[RayGubernat]

Colline -

I was thinking kinda what dirdober said. How do you know the next dog you get from this breeder, whether it be a shorthair or a lab... will be any better than what you got from them the first time.

I would definitely be suspect of his GSP's and if the pedigree of the prospective litter was essentially similar to your current dog...I'd pass on that if it was me unless I saw the sire and dam working and liked what I saw.

There are far too many good, responsible GSP breeders who do their best to put out a top quality dog to continue to deal with one that may not.

If the current dog from this breeder is damaged goods, put the dog down, take the loss and find a reputable breeder. I'd bet someone like Charlie Rose could get you a pup you would be happy with.

RayG


RayG

[ckfowler]

I will chip in, being also in Ohio, that there are lots of places here a lab will do much better chasing pheasants than other wide ranging dogs. Having a GSP already, the second dog being a lab would give you options. Depending on where you are in Ohio, there can be plenty of ducks to chase. Dogs can definitely do both duck blind and upland field work, some more easily than others. My setter hates sitting in a blind having spent years finding birds by moving but your GSP could learn this, especially if younger and the lab can learn some range in the field. I love going out into the swampy cattail marshes after roosters to get away from the masses on public land and that lab would likely outshine my setter there.

[hamie7]

I have 2 POINTING LABS one is a Certifed Pointing Retriever and has her akc. SH. She is used as a guide dog in Mn. and SD. for ducks and pheasants The other is her daughter who will be two this summer and will be running her hunt test this summer.And also will be used as a guide dog. She just ran a timed hunt event last weekend and took second she pointed 3 of the 4 birds bumping her first then locking in on the other three her longest point was about 15 feet the rest was around 8 to 10 feet. I did run her in the flushing event just because alot of people don't believe a lab points. After the event they said I have to run her in the pointing event next year. This was not a big event maybe 15 dogs in each event just a member event, at a local bird hunting preserve. She is a natural pointer I have not done any pointing training. I hope that answers your duck hunting questions and pointing questions. Both dogs range 20 to 30 yards in the field ahead of me. They don't range like a GSP. But they point birds and retrieve anything I shoot and thats all that counts to me

[vikings269]

How about a pointing chessie? come on it would be the best, any of them out there?

[Bailey]

What is a Certified Pointing lab?? Who is ussueing these certificates because I want to certify that I have a Point GSP :roll: :roll:

[dug1976]

I also have a pointing lab. I got this dog as a bomb squad dog wash out. I didn't know his background or breeding. I took him out to my trainer just to see he could be a flusher or if he had any drive. Very athletic and fast. He locked up on the first bird, then the next bird. Like said previously, my dog will stay locked if the bird doesn't move. I also have an EP. They compliment each other. They are kennel dogs when I'm at work and house dogs when I'm home. I got the lab as a family dog first. He has been a great find.

[hamie7]

You can got to American pointing labrador assocation (APLA) website that will explain pointing labs and the requirements for there titles. Sorry its for pointing labs only

[birdhunter2424]

I know someone in my club that 2 pointing labs. Let me tell you his dogs are amazing. I trained with him one day his older dog, which is certified, found the 2 planted pheasant and retrieved them in less 5 mins. The dog has great range. He recently ran it in a trial and held his own with some great pointers. If you want a lab and a pointer I would look at getting one. Just do your homework on the breeder like all puppy purchases.

[ezzy333]

I know someone in my club that 2 pointing labs. Let me tell you his dogs are amazing. I trained with him one day his older dog, which is certified, found the 2 planted pheasant and retrieved them in less 5 mins. The dog has great range. He recently ran it in a trial and held his own with some great pointers. If you want a lab and a pointer I would look at getting one. Just do your homework on the breeder like all puppy purchases.

Do you have any idea of what kind of a trial they ran in? Or what stake?

Ezzy

[birdhunter2424]

It was a small trial at our club. We follow NSTRA rules.

[ezzy333]

OK That makes sense. I think the good fast Labs do an excellent job in that kind of setting.

Ezzy