NOT A STAB!

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:24 am

I read an article in I think Outdoor Life on some NAVHDA tests. Something that cought my eye was that GSP's had a higher participation rate than the GWP?
This is not a stab at the GWP folks, I only thought they were the kings of the venue.

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:48 am

Just a thought, but how does the participation rate correlate with the success?

I would think that if only 5 GWP's entered the venue and they were the top 5, then the GWP would still be considered the king of the venue.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:47 pm

I think TAK was just expressing surprise at the participation level among GSP's.

The NAVHDA test reports are at www.navhda.org. When I participated, which was two decades ago, they published statistics not only on entries, but on success rates, i.e., how many total entries were from a particular breed, and then what percentage of those were I's, II's or III's. At the time, the GWP's, as I recall, had a higher participation rate, but the GSP's had a very high percentage of the Prize I's, whether UT or NA. But lots has changed in the past 20 years, even the breeds themselves. I did notice, in scanning the NAVHDA reports, there were an awful lot of pages of GSP's participating in 2004. Without counting them up one by one, 48 pages of the 123 page report for 2004 were GSP's, contrasted with 22 pages for the GWP's. So it is a popular venue for GSP's. Each entry takes up the same number of lines in the report booklet, so this is a good approximation of the proportion of entries between the two breeds.

NAVHDA is very diverse, I counted 13 breeds, including the Cesky Fousek, which was a new one on me, and some Braques that we never saw examples of back then. I remember seeing only one or two Braques, and no one ever said what type they were, and I only read about the Spinone's.

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:13 pm

Ah, so "kings of the venue" was meant as a participation rate and not a success rate. My mistake!

Would this have anything to do with the amount of GSP's owned nationwide vs. the amount of GWP's owned nationwide, or is this a "per-breed-capita" rate? I know a LOT of folks who have shorthairs... not so many that campaign the wirehaired variety.

(off topic: And even though people say the GWPs are ugly dogs, I kinda like the scruffiness myself. It's cute.)

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:19 pm

Ayres wrote:Just a thought, but how does the participation rate correlate with the success?

I would think that if only 5 GWP's entered the venue and they were the top 5, then the GWP would still be considered the king of the venue.

I tried to go into work and find the magizine but could not. It did say of the dogs entered x amount passed. This was on the Invitational Level too. So basiclly it was the Cream of the Crop competing.
Either way all the owners have put thousands of hours into training and have an animal to be proud of.....
I have some friends that compete in NAVHDA. Most have the GWP. This same group of guys take a lot of pride in when you call there dog and UGLY DOG! Heck some have the shirt to go with it!

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:58 pm

My post was not meant to say that one or the other is the "King of the Venue." There are just no success statistics handy on the navhda website, but there are some approximate measures of numbers of entries. Anyone with a fews days to waste could do all the calculations. I am sure navhda probably publishes success rates, at least they used to, just not on the website.

And watch your language about those wires. Back in the day, I had one that was preeeetty, and kicked alot of shorthair butt.

Did I mention he was an AFC and had to beat shorthairs to do it? Probably a couple dozen times.

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:02 pm

Oh, my post wasn't to say one or the other was king either, just trying to define what made a breed king of the venue. High participation rate or high success rate? I think when TAK was asking he meant both.

And... I wasn't jokin' when I said I like the scruffiness.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:44 am

"I had one that was preeeetty"
Ohh Come on is this possible!

One of the best looking ones I ever seen was a half GSP and half GWP pups had the body of the GSP but had the beards. The breeder never intended this to happen but Gus (GWP) Bred everything in 4 countys! Nightly!

versatileguy · Post by **versatileguy** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

NAVHDA dogs don't have "thousands of hours of training" in them. Only a really poor dog requires "thousand of hours" of training to pass a NAVHDA test. :roll:

sdgord · Post by **sdgord** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:52 am

versatileguy, since I dont know you personally I just have to assume your posts are done out of ignorance. What venues do you participate in ? Since the last couple of posts I have seen from you appear to be somewhat negative I can only surmise that you have a narrower field of vision than most on this board.SDGORD

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:37 am

versatileguy wrote:NAVHDA dogs don't have "thousands of hours of training" in them. Only a really poor dogs require "thousand of hours" of training to pass a NAVHDA test. :roll:

VG, argue if you wish, but I honestly think most understand the time and dedication into TRAINING of there animals to get them to a level that they feel will earn them a passing score or earn a chance at the top of the podiam or even bag them more birds in the hunting field.
If you need to change it to "Thousands of hours of Practice!"

On the other post I asked what game of type of birddoging you do and it was not answered and it has also been asked in this Post too? What is it?

versatileguy · Post by **versatileguy** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:17 pm

Nope....good dogs do not require "thousands of hours of practice" either. :roll: :roll: :roll:

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:21 pm

versatileguy wrote:Nope....good dogs do not require "thousands of hours of practice" either. :roll: :roll: :roll:

I give! You win! Can you come and train my dogs so I never have to train or practice with them! Better yet just send me one of these Push Button dogs.

versatileguy · Post by **versatileguy** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:37 pm

You don't have to give, and I don't win.......But dogs do not require "thousands of hours of training" to pass a NAVHDA test.. You are just wrong or don't know much about what is required in the test.

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:54 pm

versatileguy

Post by **Ayres** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:08 pm

versatileguy, you have already been warned, and it has been explained to you that at GDF we do not condone the types of posts you have been making.

You may have your own opinion, but often times your posts cross the line of merely stating your opinion and stating it in a 'holier than thou' way that is insulting to a lot of other members of GDF.

This time you crossed the line once again:
"You ... don't know much about what is required in the test" is a personal attack upon TAK that is insulting to his intelligence and to anyone who has had the pleasure of getting to know him inside and outside this forum.

Insulting other members falls under the categories of "abusive," "slanderous," and "hateful" in the GDF Rules of Conduct that you agreed to when you registered. Violating the Rules of Conduct is strictly forbidden on GDF and "[d]oing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed)." Please keep these Rules of Conduct in mind when you make your next post.

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:31 pm

I agree with versatile guy.

Hundreds of hours, thousands if you're lucky, of hunting make the
good dogs, and it needs to involve different terrain - you know, field, forest, river or marsh so the dog's well rounded in all.

Good dog doesn't need constant repetitive training.
Dogs gotta be able to use it's own noodle

JMHO

Post by **Ayres** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:34 pm

Hundreds or thousands of hours of hunting would be considered some form of practice, which versatileguy has shunned as well.

versatileguy · Post by **versatileguy** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:23 pm

Hundreds or thousands of hours of hunting would be considered some form of practice, which versatileguy has shunned as well.

Now this quote has missed the "POINT" too......Hunting is not training for a test.

Most dogs will never get 100 hours in the field really hunting. :roll:

Richard *UT* · Post by Richard *UT* » Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:42 pm

versatileguy · Post by **versatileguy** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:58 pm

Another wondeful example. I don't know anything,, I don't have or have dogs, never trained a dog/dogs....probably own cats....blah, blah, blah.....all because you don't like my opinion or experience.

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:08 pm

no it's your additude,you've insulted fine people on this site :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: so that has offended all of us :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: good luck in whatever you are trying to accomplish :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Post by **pear** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:24 pm

VG..........you just don't get it dude. It's not your opinion. We all respect that and uphold your right to have an opinion. It's your attitude, your not doing yourself any favors, continuing to maintain it, and mocking other members. I'd also suggest others not taunt him, he's being dealt with, as we speak, he'll get what he seems to want, another notch in his gun stock............"pear"

versatileguy · Post by **versatileguy** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:12 pm

Honestly, what is he contributing? I love this site and have learned alot, a ton, (now is that actually a metric ton, no but I think you get the picture) but does this guy own a dog. Has he helped anything other than raising others blood pressure? TAK has the record and the dogs that prove he knows what he is talking about, what do you have? Other than a bad attitude. angryfire If I have crossed the line please feel free to delete it.

That is not a bait? That is not a cut on me or what I might know? Are you "giving him a good talking too?"

I doubt it.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:52 pm

VG
It is getting pretty boring reading, and worst yet repling to the misirable posts over some word usage I wrote. Read the post and take the point intended.... They are putting fourth a great deal of time to prove the training, the dog, and the time away from the couch! I am applauding them!
All I have seen from you is negitive and buddy that aint going to win any friends and it sure can't be good for the high blood presure.
Offer up some help to the board, let us know what Venue you think is more of a true test for the dogs. heck maybe I would or someone else would agree. Read some posts, and see if you can help one introduce a pup to birds, dish up some advice how to combat against the anti hunters of our world......

This is a pretty good board to post on and has about every walk of life on it. Some hunt, and some trial. I think everyone has something to offer. So offer it up.

But by DOG take the warnings you have had and cool it down. I think that you can help all of us out with.... May have to pull eye teeth to get it out of you!

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:27 am

I don't know this versatile guy from a bar of soap, but from what I read I think that list members are not responding in a very nice manner either.

When disagreeing with an opinion, I'd like to see sound reasons why.
Maybe even ask someone who has put forward a post you disagree with to further explain their reasoning.
This will give something to reply to in a reasoned manner.

Makes for interesting posts and less bickering.

Marg

Post by **grant** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:11 am

TAK wrote:
versatileguy wrote:Nope....good dogs do not require "thousands of hours of practice" either. :roll: :roll: :roll:
I give! You win! Can you come and train my dogs so I never have to train or practice with them! Better yet just send me one of these Push Button dogs.

Tak, just send me clown. I'll take the poor dog. You might just get a pig. I saw on animal planet this morning where they were easy to train.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:25 am

grant wrote:
TAK wrote:
versatileguy wrote:Nope....good dogs do not require "thousands of hours of practice" either. :roll: :roll: :roll:
I give! You win! Can you come and train my dogs so I never have to train or practice with them! Better yet just send me one of these Push Button dogs.
Tak, just send me clown. I'll take the poor dog. You might just get a pig. I saw on animal planet this morning where they were easy to train.

ROTLF LMAO

Post by **Ayres** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:30 pm

Margaret wrote:I don't know this versatile guy from a bar of soap, but from what I read I think that list members are not responding in a very nice manner either.

When disagreeing with an opinion, I'd like to see sound reasons why.
Maybe even ask someone who has put forward a post you disagree with to further explain their reasoning.
This will give something to reply to in a reasoned manner.

Makes for interesting posts and less bickering.

Marg

Marg, this has been going on for a couple days now. It started off with the other members trying to be civil but at every turn and with every question, versatileguy has refused to give out any information about himself, his dogs, and what he believes to be "better" than anything he mocks. He's not offering any solutions or alternatives, just insulting a great many people that frequent this forum.

Being warned about a bad attitude and insulting behavior and then mocking the moderators, the site owner, and continuing to spread that insulting commentary on other topics is not the response we hoped for.

Right now, as pear has asked, other members should simply ignore the insults until we get this taken care of. Likewise, other members should not encourage this posting style either.

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:35 pm

grant wrote: Tak, just send me clown. I'll take the poor dog. You might just get a pig. I saw on animal planet this morning where they were easy to train.

When a pig points should his tail be at 12:00 or 10:00 .

Post by **grant** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:52 pm

llewgor wrote:
grant wrote: Tak, just send me clown. I'll take the poor dog. You might just get a pig. I saw on animal planet this morning where they were easy to train.
When a pig points should his tail be at 12:00 or 10:00 .

Not sure, don't they curl?

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:14 pm

guess it would be called a 24 hr clock

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:28 pm

force fetch might be a lot of work, have to be a real sturdy table.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:39 pm

Believe it or not but I assisted in raising two fine swine this summer. My boy this summer competed in the county fair. Just so happens one of the fine swine's had a docked tail and yes it was 12 oclock! Ol Blue Butt weighed in at a minimal 301lbs. I was pretty proud of the boy and ol Blue, as he earned a Blue Ribbon! Ya one would think with Blue you would be the winner! Not in the Pig World you want a Purple one!
If one should ask about the other swine his new name is PORK CHOP, or going to be!

markj · Post by **markj** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:40 am

Pigs are good to eat

doing them a favor

by eatin them

Personally I dont train my dogs, nature in her splendid glory has infused my dogs with such great "instincts" they hunt, shoot, retrieve, clean, cook and serve the birds to me as I am getting out of the shower

Yours arnt the same? Must be the breeding

cept for TAKS as a female I own is from similar blood.....

Really tho, 15 min in the morn 15 min in the evening is all I do. Everything else is just a game to them...

Hunt 4 or 5 days a week 3 months a year adds up to over 100 hours unless I am missing something

even 2 days a week for 3 months adds up.

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