4mo old pup aggresive with my kids..Brittany

[KFhunter]

I have a Brittany, shes just over 4 months now and is doing great.

She's house broke, crate trained, comes when called, shes retreiving to my hand....basically a wonderful pup!

but she's getting way aggressive with mostly my son who's almost 10yrs..she has him pretty well buffaloed even though I've been trying to teach him how to control her and "be the boss"...but he's a bit timid and the pup is capitolizing on that.

tonight I really had to get after her.

My son was trying to get a slipper from her, and after a bit of "keep away" around the kitchen table she took up a spot under the table and got into an aggressive possessive stance, the son reached for the slipper and she growled, he reached again and she lunged snapping and barking..my son fell backwards and bonked his head on the table and then fell back on his rear...it really startled him

I jumped up and almost kicked the dog thru the wall, I regained my composure at the last second and just scolded her with a harsh voice and booted at her but it wasn't hard at all, just a toe and tossed her butt over a bit. She ran to mommy (my wife) and climbed up in her lap.

but my son was pretty shook up, his heart was pumping and he had trouble telling me the story cause he was breathing hard...he had an adrealine dump



so anyways, what should I do?

She never growls at me or momma, just the two kids. I'm not sure I can get my son to teach this dog who's boss, specially after tonight.

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

Your son is old enough he shouldn't be afraid of a puppy. If he acts that way around the puppy its pretty obvious why she shows dominace over him. He needs to prob just once grap the pup by the neck and pen it down like momma dog would do not trying to hurt the pup just show it whos boss if so bite the pups ear while doing so. This puppy can't hurt him he needs to understand that it views your son as a litter mate and shes the boss he needs to be.

Rob

[KFhunter]

I was just shocked to hear that pup bark and snap like that, haven't heard it before like that.

I think your right, I'm going to have yet another talk with him...really drive it home.
I've shown him how to do it a couple times already, he's just so freaking gentle. He's a great boy, just not one aggresive bone in his body lol..I think he's afraid to hurt the pup so treats her like she's blown glass or something. He wanted a dog sooo bad, so now he treats it like a baby.


I guess I know what to do, just wanted to hear some other opinions and ideas.

[slistoe]

Sounds like the son should have been getting some assistance with getting the slipper from the dog. He can't do this alone - you need to set the parameters for the dog and then help your son enforce them. There shall be NO growling, posturing or other possesive/aggressive/dominance behaviors towards any human. Zero tolerance. And let Momma know that the dog needed scolding when it got to her as well.

[slistoe]

I would be very cautious about having a child with an issue of dominance with a dog getting their face up close to the dog and trying to bite them. Should the dog choose to reply to the threat the consequence is not worth the potential gain. There are other ways with infinitely lower risk.

[gar-dog]

I have three kids that were 13, 11, and 5 a year ago when we got our pup. We had a little of this with my 5-year old daughter, so we taught her that she's the boss too and she has learned to control the dog well. I also let her hold the leash some on walks... I think this sent a message to the dog. Seriously, at 4-months your pup really can't hurt your son. When my dog would bite I would stick my hand in her mouth and grab her snout and just hold it - freeze - not allowing her to move. Maybe your son should wrestle and rough-house with the puppy some, and establish dominance that way - pinning it down, holding its snout, but during play.

My older boys and I pretend fight and wrestle and Ginger gets in the mix "defending" whichever of us is "the victim" of the horseplay. She will growl and grab arms of the so-called aggressor and it is all good fun and when it's time to stop she will settle right down and plop back in your lap. I sometimes wonder if allowing this mock aggression is good, or if it is confusing for the dog. We punch each other and yell no and ouch and the dog will jump in to defend. It is a lot of fun and I think the dog thinks it's fun too. But I wonder if this is good.

[mountaindogs]

I agree you need to be with your son backing him up. I had two kids and a 4 month puppy right now so I do understand the difficulty of timing. Explain to your son that he need to be boss, but that you are going to help him, and have him call for you when he needs to deal with a situation. In the pack world an alpha can elevate the status of another pack member by forming an alliance. Also you are protecting him like a "pup of your own" and that should help send a clear message of leave "MY pup" alone...

In addition I would suggest a few things to carefully work on. Your son should ultimately be able to take any toy, or food away from from the pup. Pup is at the bottom of the family and needs to learn that no aggression is tolerated. First give pup one safe place that he can be away from the kids like the crate. After that - YOU need to make sure you can take things away. When you feed pup, pick up the bowl and make him wait, then set it down and again and again through out the meal, kick the bowl around and stand over it making the puppy wait, and even place your hand in the bowl while he is eating. Then WHILE you are closely supervising! help you son do the same things. Help him roll the pup over and and make him lie on his back for several seconds. My guess is this pup will resist this from your son unless the pupis tired. You ultimately need to get the point across though that YOU expect the pup to act nicely to your son. YOU are the boss and YOU decide who is next in line and it is not Pup. I would very much agree that mom should also have reprimanded pup. Walking the pup on lead is a great idea - you son can do that in the house, and make him do tricks. Teach the pup some submissive commands (I know some folk are going to agrue here...) like sit or down, and make sure the pup will do these for your son also. As your son is able to make him do things and take things like food away, with you backing him up, he will gain confidence also and the pup will read that.

Best luck! and keep on it. It is an important issue.

[natetnc]

number one.... you said the dog ran to your wife for protection, don't let that happen, your wife should have shunned the dog for the time being.... isolating the dog so it felt like no one was on its side after that incident.

i know all kids are different but your son should be exicted about being the boss, telling the dog what to do and then the dog doing it. i would start out with some easy, yet effective control exercises. the trainer i used had to do the same with my wife and i as our first puppy had us wrapped from day 1. set a kennel/dog house in the back of a kennel run or somewhere that will allow you to keep control. have your son use the "kennel" or whatever command you use to get your dog in there. give him a broom or some type of instrument to guide the dog with if needed. do not hit the dog with the instrument it is only a guiding tool used along with your body. at first he may have to almost walk the dog in the kennel, when the dog gets in make it stay there, if it comes out respond accordingling by walking it back in. do not praise the dog the instance it does something right, this is a domination exercise not a positive confirmation exercise, save the praises for another time. do not be harsh with the dog, speak as little as possible to the dog, just get the results you want. perhaps you should start out doing the exercise and then let your son take it over after several days. again this is a domination exercise, not praising petting speaking doggy language or whatever, stick to the plan.

when your dog displays that aggresive behavior take care of it at that instance, a 4mo old is easy to deal with don't let it keep that mentality until the dog is full grown and harder to handle. do not stop until you have gotten your hands on the puppy but DO NOT give any "here" commands (don't want to scold him for coming to "here"). do not beat it, flip it on its back with your hand on its neck (not choking the pup) as this is the most dominant position you can be in. hold him down for a bit giving it the repeated no command.

the above suggestions about taking stuff away and getting your pup out of his comfort zone are also good suggestions

[gonehuntin']

Some people are not dog trainers nor should they be expected to be. Especially a child. It is your, and our, responsibilities to protect helpless children from the teeth of a dog. You and the dominant force in that home and it is up to you to do it, since it's primarily YOUR dog.

I've said it before on here, I have ZERO tolerance for any puppy nipping or growling at me or a child, even if I know it's in play. Whenever it does it, even if it's pouncing and playing, grab that muzzle and pinch it until the pup yips and tell it NO very strongly. If it keeps doing it, hold it's mouth shut and quickly nip the end of the nose. That's what Ma would do. You won't see many female dogs putting up with that nonsense from an older pup.

I've seen soooooo many of these incidents end with a child's scarred face from a dog the owner let rule the home. Don't do it. Stop it now, or don't come back crying later because a child was severely bitten. I think on the boards, there were four dogs last year on all of the different boards that had to be put down for biting children if I remember correctly.

There is NO dog worth the disfigurement of a child. If all else fails, kennel him outside and don't let the children around the pen.

[kninebirddog]

Some people are not dog trainers nor should they be expected to be. Especially a child. It is your, and our, responsibilities to protect helpless children from the teeth of a dog. You and the dominant force in that home and it is up to you to do it, since it's primarily YOUR dog.

I've said it before on here, I have ZERO tolerance for any puppy nipping or growling at me or a child, even if I know it's in play. Whenever it does it, even if it's pouncing and playing, grab that muzzle and pinch it until the pup yips and tell it NO very strongly. If it keeps doing it, hold it's mouth shut and quickly nip the end of the nose. That's what Ma would do. You won't see many female dogs putting up with that nonsense from an older pup.

I've seen soooooo many of these incidents end with a child's scarred face from a dog the owner let rule the home. Don't do it. Stop it now, or don't come back crying later because a child was severely bitten. I think on the boards, there were four dogs last year on all of the different boards that had to be put down for biting children if I remember correctly.

There is NO dog worth the disfigurement of a child. If all else fails, kennel him outside and don't let the children around the pen.

I am going to add on

I also Do not accpet or tolerate a pup to think that mouthing me or anyone as an acceptable behavior in any manner

this need to be Nipped in the bud Now...at this point since the pup has already crossed the line it is going to take a come to jesus meeting of a severe grab of muzzle or I literally make the dog specially one at that level I make then THINK they are going to choke to death on my hand going down their throat this is done not to physically harm but I want them to think it ...no words just action

that pup also needs to learn that child is YOUR property and your child if you can not get him to understand about taking control should Never be place in that posistion again the pup is treating him like a littermate not as a human there again not accepatable or it will lead in to your kid getting bit
at 4 months old there is still some turn around time...Changes things now or your only going to further that pups behavior to a potential dangerous level

you have a alpha dominant pup...which needs to be knocked down in the pecking order...even if it means that your the one that puts the foot down for your son ...no matter if there is a situation like that again ...don't let your son chase the dog that is what starts the pup learning it is in control...Step in and take control

[gonehuntin']

I would listen to every word K-9 tells you, or she may come over and kick heck out of both of us!! She sounds riled!!

[KFhunter]

Some of this is a bit over stated, but I understand the need to nip this in the bud right away and the consequences down the road.

I am very happy to hear the advice on partnering with my son, I'll do some excercises of that nature.

couple things I think contributed to this;

1) I caught the kids trying to "make her growl" by playing tug of war with her toy. I scolded them and I don't think they'll do that again. But really what kid doesn't play tog of war with their dog? Maybe only hunting dog kids eh? lol

2) even though I told the kids to not chase her, they still do. I was trying to get them to understand that when they call her "Libby come" they had better be ready to "go get her" and make her come. Didn't work out so well. Not sure what to do here other then maybe have the kids do some food reward training on the "Libby Come" command.

3) Libby is an expert theif, lol..sneaky turd will grab a slipper and run off to play keep away. She doesn't do this to me so much because a harsh "NO" and she'll drop anything shes grabbed or was thinking to grab...kids not so much, which starts the keep away game.


I want to keep the pup bold, but carefully knock her down a few pegs.

Thanks for the advice.

[kninebirddog]

Some of this is a bit over stated, but I understand the need to nip this in the bud right away and the consequences down the road.

I am very happy to hear the advice on partnering with my son, I'll do some excercises of that nature.

couple things I think contributed to this;

1) I caught the kids trying to "make her growl" by playing tug of war with her toy. I scolded them and I don't think they'll do that again. But really what kid doesn't play tog of war with their dog? Maybe only hunting dog kids eh? lol

Put both on chain gang or kennel for time out JK seriously I would get on the kids to not do that

2) even though I told the kids to not chase her, they still do. I was trying to get them to understand that when they call her "Libby come" they had better be ready to "go get her" and make her come. Didn't work out so well. Not sure what to do here other then maybe have the kids do some food reward training on the "Libby Come" command.

i would seperate the kids from the dog and only let them play while supervised I would say try avoidance training but i think there are laws against using e therapy on kids again this is a poor attempt at humor

3) Libby is an expert theif, lol..sneaky turd will grab a slipper and run off to play keep away. She doesn't do this to me so much because a harsh "NO" and she'll drop anything shes grabbed or was thinking to grab...kids not so much, which starts the keep away game. Ok careful with what you just said so when your doing any triainng ad the dog is retrieveing she doesn't ever think a bird is a no no I would work on some here commands with a lead


I want to keep the pup bold, but carefully knock her down a few pegs.
Yes careful you want to knock her back in to her place in the pack but you can be affirmative but never with anger or where she becomes afraid have a leash if she runs with a something she shouldn't have play bait and switch get something that she will want don't go after her make her think you have something better

Thanks for the advice.

[rich]

A 4 MONYH OLD PUP WILL PLAY AS ROUGH AS YOU LET HIM. YOUR SON, OR ANYONE ELSE, SHOULD NOT PLAY TUG OF WAR WITH THE DOG. A PUP RUNNING AT WILL IN YOUR HOUSE WILL DESTROY A LOT OF YOUR BELONGING BEFORE HE GROWS UP. GET HIM A CRATE AND LET HIM OUT DURING PERIODS WHEN HE CAN BE EXERCISED AND PLAYED WITH, OUT OF DOORS PREFERABLY. THE PUP WILL ONLY KNOW WHAT YOU TEACH HIM.

[slistoe]

Some of this is a bit over stated,

6 different people with literally hundreds of dogs under their belt tell you the identical thing and you want to downplay it's importance.

[snips]

A 4 month old pup I would just pick up by the nap of the neck and just give 'em a good shake. After all, it is a pup, but a pup that needs some boundries.

[KFhunter]

I had the boy roll the pup on her back and rub her belly, she wasn't fully submissive at first and just seemed merly tolerant.

After her struggling to get free a little and the boy tossing her back on her back again and again she finally went fully submissive.
Then we did some anti-mouthing excercises, and I got the boy to finally squeeze her muzzle properly. To make sure I had them where I wanted them I had him mess with her tail a little bit (not pain, she just doesn't like her tail messed with) instead of mouthing his hand she started licking it. much improved!

I would have done a food bowl excercise but she's not possessive of her food at all, if anything its hard to get her to eat. I'll start cutting back a bit on her food so it'll have more importance. She's basically free eating now cause I think shes too skinny.



I've restriced their time (boy and pup) together when I am not around, just to make sure things are being done right. She is spending more time in her kennel box inside now. She never was allowed to just roam around the house freely anyways, someone had to be right with her and usually she's leashed. I think the boy gaining confidence is going to help a ton..he was flinching badly now he's steady and learning to bee the boss. She's not 100% broke from mouthing yet, we didn't nip that like we should have but we are correcting it very well now.

[ezzy333]

Just don't forget you are dealing with a 4 month old puppy. She is a baby and any bad actions on her part are just a puppy being a puppy. You can and should correct them but I have never seen a puppy that age that hasn't tried exactly what your puppy is doing and would be concerned if they didn't. Its much like training a two year old child. There are some thing that they all need to try if they are to learn. And most never become serious problems. I like what Brenda told you and also having your son hold her down. She will be ok. But I wouldn't get too concerned about the puppy and the kids spending a lot of time together. That will promote a bond that will last a life time.

Ezzy

[LoveMyGSPs]

To build on this topic,

What do you do if the dog is VERY vocal? Our pup (5 mo male) is a whiney baby. You can just grab his muzzle, not even tightly, and he will squeel like a pig. Now, neither hubby or I will let go just because he does this, but is this to be taken as a sign of submission or what? He will sometimes growl/whine at the same time when we grab his nose. Again, we dont let go, but I want to make sure we are understanding what he is "saying".

We also try to reposition him, like in the sit,stand, or down position, and even if you touch his tail or under his butt, he will squeel. (he does it if you reposition him anywhere or even push on him into the down/sit positions. It is not his anal glands, btw as we have them checked often as they were infected when we got him at 8 wks). Sometimes it sounds like a pissy angry squeel. So that is why I take it mostly for him being upset that we are correcting him and he isnt getting the "last word". Is that right?

[live4point]

Get rid of it,no dog is worth risking getting a kid bit or disfigured.

[GsPJustin]

FWIW, my male dog growls during tug of war, some times I entice it out of him. Its never an aggressive thing, but hes a pretty vocal dog. He lets you know what for.

I agree completely with Ezzy. Definitely do not get rid of the dog(unless the problem gets worse). Would you get rid of your kid because it yelled no at you and said it didn't want to? Your doing the right thing. IMO

Lovemygsp,

Just a thought. Maybe he still thinks it is going to hurt because when they were infected they were hurting? More than likely he is grabbing for attention and being a bit of pansy to get some sympathy. Sometimes dogs learn that bad attention is better than no attention. Not that your ignoring your pup, but its just not enough for his whims.

[Sharon]

To build on this topic,

What do you do if the dog is VERY vocal? Our pup (5 mo male) is a whiney baby. You can just grab his muzzle, not even tightly, and he will squeel like a pig. Now, neither hubby or I will let go just because he does this, but is this to be taken as a sign of submission or what? He will sometimes growl/whine at the same time when we grab his nose. Again, we dont let go, but I want to make sure we are understanding what he is "saying".

We also try to reposition him, like in the sit,stand, or down position, and even if you touch his tail or under his butt, he will squeel. (he does it if you reposition him anywhere or even push on him into the down/sit positions. It is not his anal glands, btw as we have them checked often as they were infected when we got him at 8 wks). Sometimes it sounds like a pissy angry squeel. So that is why I take it mostly for him being upset that we are correcting him and he isnt getting the "last word". Is that right?

This is a common response of many pups. You are right on track. I might add that older dogs try this too ( and some kids). Cry, squeal, act hurt and you'll give in. Many dogs learn that this works in letting them off the hook in not doing what is being asked. Keep on keeping on. You're right on track.

[gsdgspgirlz]

This sounds like a form of attention getting and the dog repeats this form of behavior when ever you grab his nose for a correction of his vocals . what really works is a shot of binaca breath spray(you can pick it up at your local gas station since it is for people)in his mouth. it is very effictive and strong, and use the command of " NO BARK of QUIET" which ever one you give. but you have to do this everytime so he learns that the excessive barking or whining is unexceptable behavior. Dogs do bark and should be allow to bark but they must also learn to be quiet when told to do so by their owners. Respect is given only when the dog learns the rules and you must teach them the rules and the acceptable behavior.Routine is also important, so be on top of it. I had to do this with my one female shephard, shepherds are notoriosly known for their loud barking (or talking as we call it) .now all I have to do once in a while to remind her ,when she forgets to quiet down when I ask her to, is pick up the little canister of breath spray. She gets quiet real fast!!She then gets rewarded for the good behavior.
Dogs only have a reaction to the action. so you must retrain the reaction of your dog to your action. keep up with it and you will have a greater reward with your dog in the end. good luck and always praise and reward when he does do something right,they get training alot faster with positive rewards!!!!!!!

[zzweims]

Get rid of the pup and scold the wife. (I can't believe she placed a puppy's well being over that of her own son--and that you didn't intervene!!)

Your family is not ready for a puppy. If, in the future, you decide to try again, get an older dog that is already trained, then enroll your son in an obedience class with that dog. Your son will gain confidence working with a dog that won't challenge him for status--particularly since his own mother already places him below the dog in the pack. Poor kid.

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

[Sharon]

Get rid of the pup and scold the wife. (I can't believe she placed a puppy's well being over that of her own son--and that you didn't intervene!!)

Your family is not ready for a puppy. If, in the future, you decide to try again, get an older dog that is already trained, then enroll your son in an obedience class with that dog. Your son will gain confidence working with a dog that won't challenge him for status--particularly since his own mother already places him below the dog in the pack. Poor kid.

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

The dog ran to her. She didn't choose the dog over her child. What a terrible thing to say from an outsider who know a tiny bit about the family situation. Unbelievable.

[KFhunter]

Guess I should update this topic, few folks really kinda went off the deep end lol.

The pup has never acted aggressivly towards anyone after the last incident which prompted this thread, as stated I've done some excercises with my son and that was all it took. The boy has changed completly in the way he deals with the pup once I talked him thru it and showed him how to properly calm her down and change her from a superhyper state of mind to a calm submissive puppy. Even in the origional incident I don't think the puppy was being "mean" or wanted to intentionally hurt the kid, but just went superhyper and took the play too far.

The couple of responces that stated the kids were "littermates" I think were spot on.

I did the food bowl test just last night for chits and giggles, the puppy could care less that my sons hand was in the food bowl, she'd just eat around his hand and even tried to lick him a time or two. This was even with a little turkey broth mixed in so it was quite a treat for her lol.

Last night she was playing the same game, my son just stood there and demanded that she come to HIM without any prompting from me. It took a bit but the pup came to him in that submissive walk she does whe she thinks shes in trouble.(funny looking butt sideways head cocked walk)

As of now I have no concerns that she'll ever bite anyone.

Total damages to date:
1 Brat Doll
1 Barbie Doll
1 garbage can knocked over in the kitchen

not bad for a puppy in almost 5 months eh?

now I just wish the snow wasn't so deep I'd be more inclined do catch some pidgeons to work with lol, although its great for getting her to use her nose to find those bumpers

[subatomicstang]

This sounds like a form of attention getting and the dog repeats this form of behavior when ever you grab his nose for a correction of his vocals . what really works is a shot of binaca breath spray(you can pick it up at your local gas station since it is for people)in his mouth. it is very effictive and strong, and use the command of " NO BARK of QUIET" which ever one you give. but you have to do this everytime so he learns that the excessive barking or whining is unexceptable behavior. Dogs do bark and should be allow to bark but they must also learn to be quiet when told to do so by their owners. Respect is given only when the dog learns the rules and you must teach them the rules and the acceptable behavior.Routine is also important, so be on top of it. I had to do this with my one female shephard, shepherds are notoriosly known for their loud barking (or talking as we call it) .now all I have to do once in a while to remind her ,when she forgets to quiet down when I ask her to, is pick up the little canister of breath spray. She gets quiet real fast!!She then gets rewarded for the good behavior.
Dogs only have a reaction to the action. so you must retrain the reaction of your dog to your action. keep up with it and you will have a greater reward with your dog in the end. good luck and always praise and reward when he does do something right,they get training alot faster with positive rewards!!!!!!!

There is a good chance that our dog would like the breathe spray he loves water hoses squirted into his face and whatever else you do to him. Hes just a big baby for now. He will learn later on that he cant get away with those things.