Pudelpointer for "first" dog? Advice before I mess up.

[runner]

Hi all. New to the forum and looking for some sage advice.

Here is my situation. I hunted ducks and upland game (mostly pheasant) throughout my teens and had two different Vizslas. I loved them both and loved to train them, do field work, and hunt. My first one had a sad demise, dying in my arms as I tried to resucitate her after she started to foam at the mouth and sieze suddenly shortly after finishing up a chukar hunting outing. To this day I don't know what the sudden death was from but believe it was likely she may have found and eaten some poisoned meat/bait put out by a rancher grazing his sheep on this BLM land. But, I can't prove it. It could have been status epilepticus from a seizure disorder that had not been known previously. Anyway, I was crushed but many months went by and my buddies all surprised me with a new dog. I loved him and he was a better hunter but much more high strung. My father grew up on a farm and believed animals belonged outside. Although I got him lots of exercise, he did not do well being in his kennel, waiting for me to get home from school. He was an escape artist, and my cheaply home constructed kennel didn't hold him well. Vizslas can jump!! He also learned to climb the tree in the kennel and jump out over the fence that way. Eventually he would climb up and sit on a larger, low branch in the tree to just relax. I've never seen that since or before in a dog. Long story short, I went on a 2 year mission out of the country and my parents just couldn't handle his energy, as there was no one left home to hunt him, so before I returned from south america, he was no longer mine-- although I'm glad someone that also loved him and allowed him to be happy got him.

Now, nearly 20 years have passed with me being without a dog due to schooling, job transfers, babies, living situations that wouldn't work for a hunting dog, etc.. I'm finally in a stable situation and now really want to get back to doing some of those things I love-- and now I have kids ranging from 8-14 who are begging me for a dog. Having had mutts, cats, and eventually the two Vizslas growing up, I only want a pointing dog. The shooting and birds are a distant second in enjoyment to watching a good pointing dog work, finding a bird and locking up on a steady point. But I also realize what a huge commitment in time, energy, money, etc. a true hunting dog will be. Alright, this is getting too long. I'll cut to the chase after that little color and can fill in details as people want.

I'm calling this a "first" dog for a couple reasons: 1- My wife isn't on board but will tolerate it- it will be my responsibility, and a first for her and the kids, who are excited, but clueless about the work and dedication needed.
2- Looking back, I did a horrible job of self training my first two Vizslas and it's been 20 years, so I'm now considering myself a "newbie" to dog owning/training. I am very nervous about taking on this big responsibility without considering all the details and making sure I have my bases covered, as I'd rather have no dog than one that I can't do justice to.

Here is the scenario I'm envisioning right now. I install a dog door in the garage and the dog will sleep in there at night. I will install an invisible fence and it will have free reign of about 1/2 acre during the day. It will be allowed in the house in limited areas for family time in the afternoons when the kids get home from school, but will be put in its crate in the garage to sleep at night. I love to run and it will get 4-6 miles/day, with up to 10 miles on Sat. if it wants (of course I will work up to this)-- some on pavement, much on dirt trails. I will probably be able to spend 2-3 hours/week doing field work (other than basic obedience training around the house/yard) in areas with wild birds (quail, pheasants, maybe 15x/year chukars as I'd have to drive further).

Eventual uses will be hunting upland game (wild chukars mostly, followed by pheasant, then quail, then grouse). Rarely I will use it for waterfowl but want to keep that option open. I will want it to be able to run with me throughout the year. It can get hot here in the summer, but I usually don't run in the middle of the day if it gets over 80-85.

With these things in mind, I had narrowed down to the following:
1- Pudelpointer-- visited some at a local breeder as I had never heard of them before. They seem to have a very nice family/kid feel, yet still be very high end in their hunting capabilities. The breeder has excellent lines, with his breeding stock all having tremendous NA test scores from NAVHDA. The little bit I saw from a planted bird in a field and some retrieving in a pool that had ice on it that morning that had just melted with gusto was impressive, but I haven't been able to go and watch them hunt in the field, and the breeder says he doesn't have people along on hunts, but I could go back to watch when he's doing training in his bigger fields. They seem to be a nice fit with being very friendly and happy around kids, yet all business in the field, and very versatile.
2- GSP-- worry here is not knowing a good breeder nearby and there being a much larger spectrum of good and not so good dogs due to their popularity.
3- Vizsla-- I know I like these, but haven't found someone locally with proven hunters.
4- Brittany-- I don't know a lot about them other than what I've read. Never hunted over them with friends. They seem to fit my criteria as far as smart, friendly, a great nose and pointer. The long hair is the downside for me here as I want the cleanest dog possible for occasional house time or it will wear out its welcome with the wife.

Anyone out there that has owned/hunted over a Pudelpointer and can compare it with a GSP, Vizsla, or Brittany, or anyone who sees a glaring oversight on my part about getting back into dogs or problems with my scenario, I would really appreciate your insight.

[up-hunter]

i have never hunted with a pudelpointer before but have heard good things, it will help us, help you if we know where you live, and what breeder you are looking at. The most notable breeder of pudelpointers I know of is bob farris at cedarwoods kennels.

good luck in your search

[up-hunter]

Also check to see if there is a navhda club in your area, you could see if they are having any training days where you could go see guys workering there dogs and see some of the other breeds work.

[runner]

i have never hunted with a pudelpointer before but have heard good things, it will help us, help you if we know where you live, and what breeder you are looking at. The most notable breeder of pudelpointers I know of is bob farris at cedarwoods kennels.

good luck in your search

It is Bob Farris/Cedarwoods kennel that I'm looking at for the pup.

[Greg Jennings]

I have both a V and a GSP. My V would have a hard time with cold waterfowling. Warmer water, no problem.

I'm of the opinion that a good dog is a good dog no matter what the breed and feel that the advantages of having a supportive breeder close by should be heavily weighted.

[Sharon]

I have both a V and a GSP. My V would have a hard time with cold waterfowling. Warmer water, no problem.

I'm of the opinion that a good dog is a good dog no matter what the breed and feel that the advantages of having a supportive breeder close by should be heavily weighted.

Well said

[runner]

I have both a V and a GSP. My V would have a hard time with cold waterfowling. Warmer water, no problem.

I'm of the opinion that a good dog is a good dog no matter what the breed and feel that the advantages of having a supportive breeder close by should be heavily weighted.

As I'm only in the "homework" phase and hadn't fully committed to a breed, and asked to just stop by and check out the dogs, Mr. Farris seemed very nice, and passionate about his Pudelpointers. He did, however, seem very busy with his many dogs, and I'm not sure I understand how he would be helpful to me personally in training, working out kinks with a dog if I got it from him. What exactly would the breeder be able to do that would be helpful? I wouldn't want to pester him all the time with questions and concerns.

This seems like a very good point at first read, but I'm just trying to sort out exactly what advantage is conveyed by having the breeder be nearby?

[Ruffshooter]

You will not go wrong with a pudel Pointer. If I remeber correctly, Pudel pointers percentage wise have the highest rate for Versitle Champions (I think that is right). There are far fewer being run. I have worked with a couple hear at our NAVHDA club and found them to be smart and ready to learn as well as sweet but pleanty of drive.

Ask Bob Farris if he has a Veristile champion from 2004. I ran with a Pudel pointer that year. That was anice dog. We both got VC that year if it is him. Nice range, nice hunt, good retriever. Large I thought. I am not sure if that is the Kennel or not. Any way. Make sure you ask for hip info on parents and the health quaruntee.

There is an other breeder that is well known. Mike Pollata, He has some nice dogs (pineridgepudelpointers.com)

One thing with the breeders helping. They should. It is their name and kennel on the line so it is benificial for them to help when they can. You could work out a training schedule and make appointements to get home work to work on from week to week or month to month.. You could always hire a trainer such as Bob Farris.

Also don't be too impressed with N/A scores, it sure is nice to have the pups pass and when there are enough breedings from a kennel with good scores that holds some water. But the real test is hunting, and the Utility scores or AKC MH or trial wins and placements etc.

[h.q.s]

I have both a V and a GSP. My V would have a hard time with cold waterfowling. Warmer water, no problem.

I'm of the opinion that a good dog is a good dog no matter what the breed and feel that the advantages of having a supportive breeder close by should be heavily weighted.

As I'm only in the "homework" phase and hadn't fully committed to a breed, and asked to just stop by and check out the dogs, Mr. Farris seemed very nice, and passionate about his Pudelpointers. He did, however, seem very busy with his many dogs, and I'm not sure I understand how he would be helpful to me personally in training, working out kinks with a dog if I got it from him. What exactly would the breeder be able to do that would be helpful? I wouldn't want to pester him all the time with questions and concerns.

This seems like a very good point at first read, but I'm just trying to sort out exactly what advantage is conveyed by having the breeder be nearby?

So you can see his dogs work, and meet them in person. You can learn a lot more in person than over email or phone, and you could see the sire and dam, and maybe even the pups in action.

[R-Heaton]

Runner,,,, where you located at? I gather it must be the Boise area? IMO, you couldn't buy a pup from a better person. I think Bob would be really helpful with any questions or snags that you will encounter, has well as a few other really good local gun dog trainers. I have hunted behind a few of Bob's dogs throughout the years and all have been great bird finders and retrievers.

[runner]

Runner,,,, where you located at? I gather it must be the Boise area? IMO, you couldn't buy a pup from a better person. I think Bob would be really helpful with any questions or snags that you will encounter, has well as a few other really good local gun dog trainers. I have hunted behind a few of Bob's dogs throughout the years and all have been great bird finders and retrievers.

Yes, Boise area. It's good to see so many hearty endorsements of Bob Farris. Not knowing anything about local breeders it was sheer luck to stumble on his website. Thanks for all the replies.

Is there anyone out there who owns a Pudelpointer and has owned any of the other breeds I'm considering? (Vizsla, Brittney, GSP?) What about running in the warm summer? Will a Pudelpointer tolerate that? Sorry to have so many questions-- it's a big decision with a long committment and I'm just trying to get as much info. as possible. Anyone know of a good breeder of Brittanies, Vizslas, or GSPs in southwest Idaho, Eastern Oregon, or Northern Utah?

Thanks again for all replies.

[Cora's Shadow]

Hey Runner,

Sounds like you are about to make a good decision. Pudelpointers are awesome dogs and Bob Ferris breeds some of the best...plus he's a heck of a nice guy.

I'm not sure if he does this anymore, but he used to make an offer to his puppy buyers where he said that if you were unable to test your pup for some reason, he would take it back, finish training it, and run it in the NAVHDA natural ability test for you. He really thinks testing is important and I thought it was really neat that he cared that much about his dogs to help out owners like that.

In regards to your question about the heat, a Pudelpointer will do fine if properly conditioned. Also, there is some coat variance in the breed and Bob is usually pretty good about hooking you up with the pup that is best suited for your situation. I have a friend in Arizona with a smooth-coated PP. Bob purposely gave him the pup with the shortest coat because he knew it was going to Arizona.

[Yawallac]

I saw Pudelpointers work a long time ago (early 80s) in NAVHDA and I always wanted one. Last spring I was testing a couple of pups in NA at the TN NAVHDA Chapter and saw a fantastic young PP female. She ran just like my Pointers!!

I found out the breeder and contacted him. He had a repeat litter on the ground so I bought a pup. I am delighted with her. She is everything I remembered about the breed and then some. I couldn't be happier. PPs are a very special breed of dogs IMO.

Training a couple of days ago:

[springpoint]

runner you may also want to check out versatile dogs.com there are some pudelpointer owners over on that board also

[Birddog 307]

Runner you have made a good choice going with Bob. My hunting buddy has a female from Bob and she is a smart dog. I have britts and setters and she will not run as hard as mine but she sure is a nice dog. Your wife will end up loving her and she will end up in the house. They are very family orientated so it will not be a good idea just to leave her outside in a kennel. They bond with the family. My friends dog is really a nice dog and when the day comes when I can not keep up with my pack I will probably have one.
Birddog 307

[Ruffshooter]

On the day the pudel pointer and my gsp ran in the VC in 04 in MO, it was in the mid eigthies for the hour long field part of the test. The dogs were well conditioned.

[Bigshrimp]

Here's "A Dog's Life" show on the Pudelpointer.....very entertaining

A Dog's Life

[runner]

Thanks for the heads up on the Versatile Dogs forum (lots of owners and several threads about Pudelpointers), and that video on it's a Dog's Life, which I just finished watching. Great stuff. I think I'm pretty much decided now and just need to work out some details (i.e. get some things around the house ready and make the final commitment to once again being a gun dog owner). Boy am I excited! Thanks again for the comments/reassurances-- I suppose my biggest concern was that if they were such great dogs, why have they remained so rare? That's still a bit of a mystery, but there seems to be many happy owners so I'm going to go ahead.

[Yawallac]

I suppose my biggest concern was that if they were such great dogs, why have they remained so rare? That's still a bit of a mystery, but there seems to be many happy owners so I'm going to go ahead.

.
No mystery at all really. The Pudelpointer Club wants it that way. Breeding is regulated and pups are only sold to hunters. Pudelpointers are NOT registered with the AKC which, IMO, further protects the breed from being over bred or being bred for reasons other than hunting. I don't think you will find a more consistantly bred breed of hunting dogs anywhere.

Good luck,

Ross.

[Packfish]

I'm in Northern Utah- my PP parents are from Cedarwood stock. I would suggest a smoother coat if you are worried about the heat. They are family orientated dog and I wanted that. I have had a Wire haired , a Springer and a few labs over the years. At 15 months the PP understands what going on better than any of the other dogs at that age- well maybe tied with 1 of the labs- Couldn't be more pleased with him.

[gdog]

Packfish...where are you in Northern UT? I'm in Sandy and on my 2nd PP. Love the breed.

Have a new PP pup from Larry Stone. She is 12 weeks old. You say your dog is from CW stock...did you get yours from a breeder that has some of Bob's dogs?

[runner]

Packfish...where are you in Northern UT? I'm in Sandy and on my 2nd PP. Love the breed.

Have a new PP pup from Larry Stone. She is 12 weeks old. You say your dog is from CW stock...did you get yours from a breeder that has some of Bob's dogs?

Nice looking dog! I would have definitely gone for a "slickie" had I ended up going with a PP. In the end, I found a nice GSP. I'm going to pick it up this weekend!!!! I'm very excited. The parents are fantastic, not only great hunters, but calm around the house. In the end, the honest truth is that I won't be waterfowling that often, so I went with a GSP. I'm sure I would have been very happy either way. I'll post some pics and I'm sure I'll be checking in often to get training tips.

[birdhunter2424]

I researched PP's for a long time and was stuck on having one. In the end I also ended up with a GSP. Just to put another feathe in Bob's hat, most every other PP breeder started with Cederwoods stock. That is why I was going to buy one from him.

[Packfish]

[quote="gdog"]Packfish...where are you in Northern UT? I'm in Sandy and on my 2nd PP. Love the breed.

I'm in Paradise- that's Gunnar passed out on the goat packs- Works out pretty good . Go Grouse hunting, train the pack goats- have them pack a lunch and the dog gets to hunt.