ES Future

[dlfl]

I have been reading the book listed below in the Google book section.
"The Complete English Wing Shot" By George Teasdale Teasdale-Buckell
Published in 1907

In the section about English Setters he relates that out-cross to the pure bred Llewellins produces some great field dogs. While the Llewellin has lost size the out-cross retains the large size and gives back the outstanding traits the Llewellin is known for. He also states that it was American breeders who kept this breed true.

I bring this up as an interested person in learning all I can. Could the modern ES benefit from going back to the 100% Llewellin with stylish running, out there mentality or too those with throwback traits that were commonplace in the early Llewellin and which made the Llewellins so dominate. I posted before that a field trial judge stated that the majority of the winning ES's had a large amount of Llewellin in their back ground. This is an effort to understand where we need to go from here to improve the breed.

I am grateful that a few have preserved the pure bred Llewellin. Joe Noe, Shoeleather Kennels, states he has all six of the pillar lines. He and others are breeding size back into the dogs.There are now a few Llewellin breeders who are bringing back the Llewellin as a field trial dog and are having success. I think that ES breeders should be keeping an eye out for the possible reintroduction of this blood.

[dlfl]

Ok,
Research has proven that heritage plants can strengthen the hybrids, and the same with hybrid livestock. Could it be possible with English setters that putting the Llewellin blood in again could produce more AA type dogs or a more biddable dogs? Or would it be going backwards? I know that many here have opinions on this, let’s get a discussion going!

[quailrunner]

I am new to the breed, so I don't really know everything about the different characteristics between the English Setter and the Llewellin setter. From what I understand a Llew can be registered as and English but an English can't be registered as a Llew. If you consider the Dashing Bondhu line to be the true "Llewellin" and the earlier Llews. that came to the U.S. as the English, I would think that the English from being bred for the last 100 years or so for the field trial characteristics, Adding in the true Llew. or the Dashing Bonhu blood would probably get you away from the AA type dogs your breeding for.To be honest with you (and this is just MY opinion) I think the Llewellin setter and the English setter should be considered two seperate breeds of dogs. And if the English setter people want to improve certain characteristics of the breed then they should do so within the breed, and the same goes for the Llews. Again like I said at the beginning, I'm new to the Llews. I have only had my pup for a little over a month, but from what I can tell so far, he learns faster, is more attentative, and is corrected a lot easier than pups of the "field trial bred" breeds that I have had in the past. I will be following this thread, hoping to read other peoples experiences and thoughts as well.

[dlfl]

The pillars of the American Llewellin strain, Gladstone, Count Noble, Druid, Rake, Leicester and Lincoln.

[Dave Quindt]

If you want to get a true discussion going, post your ideas over on the Cover Dog Message Board. It probably has the biggest group of setter folks, especially breeders, around.

Your ideas, assumptions and conclusions will be challenged; no doubt about that.

http://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/

FYI,
Dave