How to get a dog to range further?

[GSPVIZ]

My Viz does not want to go more than 25 yards from me. Any ideas on how to get her further out?

Also it seems that when not on a scent, she has her tail down pretty often. But as soon as she catches scent it wags like crazy then stiffens up once on point.

Any ideas would be helpful.

[bobman]

Do you talk to her in the field, if so shut up?

You need to take her to some place with lots of bird for a week like ND, about the only way I know to get a dog to really range more is to make them believe lots of birds are out there.

The last possibility is you are overtraining her with OB ect and thats related to shutting up

The good thing is she is birdy

running her with another dog will pull her out also

[PowerPoint]

Run the dog with a big running dog.the difference will amaze you..

[topher40]

How old is she?

[GSPVIZ]

He will be 2 at the end of Nov.

[Yawallac]

The only consistently successful method for getting a dog to range bigger ....is to get another dog!

In my experience you just can't get there from here. I've seen some artificially increased ranges on dogs and it isn't pretty. Your dog's natural range is your dog's natural range. It may get a little bigger with age, experience and confidence, but you'll never get much of an increase. Generally speaking.

I have some close working dogs and I just hunt them with my bigger ranging dogs and enjoy the contrast.

[SouthDakotaBound]

Also it seems that when not on a scent, she has her tail down pretty often. But as soon as she catches scent it wags like crazy then stiffens up once on point.

Why is that a problem, sounds like she is doing things right.

[jczv]

GSPVIZ from the other current range thread you posted:

Wow I have the complete opposite problem. My Viz wont leave my side!

If she does get too far and I cant see her, I yell come. If she doesn't respond then I give her a quick zap with the collar and she comes in pretty quickly.

ummm - OK now you've trained your dog to stay in close - you need to make up your mind if you want your dog to range or not. It's not going to range much if everytime it gets out of sight you call it in and or zap it.

[GSPVIZ]

I will call or zap her if she runs off and is sniffing tree trunks. If she is in the field I let her go.

[jczv]

If I'm remembering some of your previous posts correctly your dog is just starting hunting and is this is it's first hunting season. In my opinion your dog doesn't even have a hunting range yet. The difference in my dogs range between their first and second season was huge. The main advice I'd give is to hunt the heck out of the dog and listen to the previous advice about being as quiet as possible (in this I include hand signals, whistles, nicks, etc.). In my experience vizslas learn stuff 10x better themselves then if you try and teach it. There also do there best work as happy idiots.

I posted some stuff on a previous thread on extending range but this was all after a full hunting season. http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 06#p117606

Get your dog into as many birds as possible in as many different locations and varied terrain as you can.

[bobman]

I will call or zap her if she runs off and is sniffing tree trunks. If she is in the field I let her go.

Man thats not right just put that Ecollar away, a dog doesn't know the difference from running off to smell some trees or the "field" its range is its range, let the dog run and sniff whatever it wants for now or your going to have a boot polisher.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but IMO ecollars can really undermine a sensitives dogs confidence to range and you end up with one nervouse dog walking at heel

[topher40]

The only consistently successful method for getting a dog to range bigger ....is to get another dog!

In my experience you just can't get there from here. I've seen some artificially increased ranges on dogs and it isn't pretty. Your dog's natural range is your dog's natural range. It may get a little bigger with age, experience and confidence, but you'll never get much of an increase. Generally speaking.

I have some close working dogs and I just hunt them with my bigger ranging dogs and enjoy the contrast.

Amen! I couldnt have said it any better!

I will call or zap her if she runs off and is sniffing tree trunks. If she is in the field I let her go.

If you want a dog that doesnt sniff around a junk and piddlefunk around then get a pointer. Thats not a knock or a jab but HONEST advice. Put the collar away, the dog doesnt know what the correction is for. For all he knows he is doing things right. Get him into lots of birds this year and good luck!

[prairiefirepointers]

E Collars are a great tool for conditioning a dog to a previously learned command, and are equally great at ruining a dogs character and confidence if used incorrectly. IMO your dog is still a pup. I don't really get serious about cutting out all the BS untill they are late into their 2nd or starting their 3rd season afield. However, by then they will have already figured out what works for them and what does not. Hacking on them with a collar because of one's own indecisiveness is going to hurt you down the road.
I also belive the right road (the easiest anyways) is to run your dog with a rangier dog. Find a buddy with a EP and set em afield. Leave them alone and let pup hunt with a seasoned dog undisturbed.

[Sharon]

If i wanted a big ranging dog, i would have gotten a different breed , however.............

If you're using planted birds, where are you planting them?
Sounds like your dog is not broke so.......
If you want your dog eager to get there and find the birds, then plant them far off. If it were my dog, i'd be letting him break and chase far out there - birds he can't catch. Normally I do this at 4-9 months.

Worry about breaking him later.
Or enjoy a closer working dog. What kind of hunting do you want to do?

[Scott]

Just a thought but what kind of condition is your dog in? The reason I ask is I have a friend that his dogs make a couple nice casts then hunt really close. He always complains about it. In his case I think his dogs are out of shape.

Every year, I offer to road his dogs with mine to prepare them for hunting season. Every year he takes the dogs hunting and doesnt understand why they won't perform. I am not saying this is your scenario but sometimes we overlook the obvious. Its important to get the dogs in great shape and maintain that condition for their health during the hunting season.

Personally, I don't think training sessions are anywhere near enough conditioning to keep a dog at its peak performance.

Do you road your dog? What do you do to keep it in condition? There have been some great posts in the past on here about roading dogs and the benefits.

I would aggree running your dogs with larger running dogs will help. Some folks will run them loose off of a quad to help with range.

[Brittguy]

I have tried to increase range, that was a long time ago. It doesn't happen. What you see is what you have. Running with another dog is just teaching trailing. When alone he will go back to his natural range.Same thoughts on the tail.You may have contributed to the range problem. Just let him go and see if he changes.When out too far don't shock him just call or go after him until you are sure of the range situtation

[gar-dog]

GSPViz's dog may be two but has only begun its training in the last couple of months. Increased range will come with confidence in the field. Also, since you will mostly be hunting the NJ WMAs, you don't want him ranging too far out anyway.

As a newbie, I was also too quick to call Ginger in. But after I (not the dog) started developing more confidence/comfort, I let the dog go and she extended her range naturally. This is probably a newbie problem, more than the dog's. It is not too late. I like the advice of just relaxing and letting the dog go.

[h.q.s]

Let her have fun. She will get out there. Is this her first season?

I had a GSP that out his tail not between his legs but pretty low and then once he had pinned the bird went up really high and was a solid point. I always thought of it as a good thing. Because he was very easy to read.

[big steve46]

I know this may be "shocking" to some of you but let the dog run occas without an ecollar. That's assuming you are working a safe area.

[Yawallac]

I know this may be "shocking" to some of you but let the dog run occas without an ecollar.

Steve,

Yep, I love old school! Imagine running a dog without an ecollar!!

[kninebirddog]

I will call or zap her if she runs off and is sniffing tree trunks. If she is in the field I let her go.

This right here is a bunch if your problem...Part of hunting is getting out there and on a young dog if you hammer on them everytime they are checking things out they become leary about smelling things and lose desire to get out there

I get my pups to move on...by changing direction and basically leave where they are doddling

I also use the Rick Smith method of cuing so the e collar becomes a tap on the shoulder to move on ...
not a ZAP and shut down and hover on me.... There is a Huge difference between the two methods and processes here

to get the dog out...If the dog ahs confidence and learns there are birds out there one thing one can try is plant a bird out in one spot maybe start 30 yards out when the dog is headed for 30 then work at 40

some times this works ...also when the dog does get hunting that can also help

mostly building up the confidence

sometimes what you see is what you got

[zzweims]

In my limited experience with vizslas, both dogs I've owned and dogs I've encountered, boot-lickers and heck-on-wheels, all have shared one trait in common: They will drag their bellies over broken glass to get back to you. Vizlsa's are so bonded with their humans, that they are almost impossible to lose. Let her go. If she piddles and sniffs, ignore it and keep moving. If she is out of sight, CHECK YOUR WATCH, and give her 10 minutes (it's amazing how time will drag when you lose a dog--2 minutes seems like 10). Don't call her, but let her know where you are. If you don't see her after that, then YOU go find HER. Act like it's no big deal and keep moving. She may never range more than 25 yards, but so what? By letting her learn and explore on her own, she may develop into a dog who will give you the best 25 yards any hunter could ask for.

And ditch the e-collar.

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

[GSPVIZ]

Thanks for all the tips everyone.

This is going to be my first hunting season (pheasant and quail) so it will be a learning experience for the both of us. I will be sure to post pics of our adventures.

[RayGubernat]

GSPVIZ -

You sound like a good candidate for a beeper collar(for the dog of course). Being unsure of where the dog is in the field and being uncomfortable with that uncertainty is VERY, VERY common and natural for a new bird dog owner. It is also wrong.

There are two incontrovertible truths about bird dogs. The first is if he doesn't want to be with you...YOU WILL NOT KEEP HIM. Bells, whistles, shock collars...whatever. If the dog doesn't want to be with you it will find a way to get away from you and get gone.

The converse is also absolutely true. If the dog likes you, it will want to hunt with you and for you. It will wait for you to get there when it finds a bird and it will come back for you when it does not. I have been schlepping along behind some of the biggest running bird dogs you can possibly imagine for almost fifty years and I ain't lost one yet(knock wood), and a lot of that was done before e-collars, trackers and beepers. I would be lying if I said I still don't get a little knot in the pit of my stomach when I see one of my dogs disappear in the distance...but...they come back and if they don't its because they are on point and will wait for however long it takes me to get there. I really believe that in my heart.

I have had a few take off after deer over the years, but they came back also. On two occasions a dog was gone overnight, but the next morning was lying on the hunting coat that I had laid on the ground where the car was parked. when I drove up to check. I had one dog stolen a week before hunting season. He was gone for a day and a half. I got a call about 4 PM that he was three blocks over, lying exhausted under a parked car. When I got there the folks said that when they approched him to offer food and water, he took off up the mountain(crossing a divided highway in the process). Later that night we heard a scratching at the door. That means he came back dwon the mmountain , re-crossed the highway and found his way to our door. Jack came in, went downstairs and slept for two solid days. He was in in tip top shape prior to being stolen. I could hunt this dog all day, four days a week without a hiccup. When he got back home his pads were worn down to nothing and he was completely spent, so there is no telling how far he came. BUT the point is that he came..all on his own, from Lord knows where.

It is a fear that you simply must get over.

If you have socialized and bonded with your pup properly he is your partner. He will wat to hunt with you and for you. If he wants to be with you ...YOU WILL NOT LOSE HIM. You can take that to the bank. Why? Simply because if the dog wants to be with you, hunt with and for you, he will. If he reaches out and gets out of sight(like he should sometimes), he will find his way back to you because he never really got out of touch. Just because you can't see or hear the dog does not mean that he can't see or hear or smell you. Their senses are so superior to ours that it is very likely that a dog knows right where we are just about all of the time, even though we don't have a clue where the dog is.

You need to learn that you can trust the dog. He needs to learn that you will let him hunt where his nose and his genetics take him without getting zipped and zapped and hollered on every time he ducks behind a bush.

A good beeper collar will extend your comfort zone quite a bit. A Lovett's beeper, for example, can be heard at distances of 400 yards in moderate cover. Most folks wouldn't know what to do with a dog that runs bigger than that anyway. Considering where you are right now, I'd be very surprised if your V will approach those ranges in the next couple of years, no matter what.

Never, never, never shock a dog that you cannot see. Unless of course you have a tracker or Garmin on the dog also and can determine what the dog is doing.

Don't beat yourself up over it though. Learning to let your bird dog go is a really hard thing for most folks to be comfortable with. Some never really are.

RayG

[BarkRidge]

The only consistently successful method for getting a dog to range bigger ....is to get another dog!

In my experience you just can't get there from here. I've seen some artificially increased ranges on dogs and it isn't pretty. Your dog's natural range is your dog's natural range. It may get a little bigger with age, experience and confidence, but you'll never get much of an increase. Generally speaking.

I have some close working dogs and I just hunt them with my bigger ranging dogs and enjoy the contrast.

Its the old saying, "You can bring 'em in, but can't make 'em go".

[A/C Guy]

I believe that it is possible to get a dog to range farther because when I started training Duke, he would not go 5 feet away from me in the field. The first time out, he was tripping me by riding my heels so close. I decided to just stop and stand there. Eventually, curiosity overcame fear and he starting nosing around. I kept praising him and I slowly backed away from him as he explored. As we worked more, he still would only range 15 to 20 yards after 6 months. Finally, after he got some good quail scent to track, he started ranging farther. Now, he will range 50 plus yards without hesitation. It just takes time and patience.