Boykin info.

[BCA1228]

I've been looking into getting a Boykin to add to my 2 GSPs to handle the duck and dove retrieving duties. I was researching the origin of the breed (interesting story), and I'm a little confused about the AKC's take on the Boykin. It looks like they are recognized in the miscellaneous class, but have not been fully recognized in the stud book. Is that right? What does that mean exactly? Is the breed close to being fully recognized? I will probably never test a boykin, but was just curious about this kind of conditional status. Do you boykin owners know anything about this?
Any other info. anybody else wants to provide about Boykins would be appreciated as well.

[Neil Mace]

I am a little cloudy on the AKC thing myself.

The main body of the Boykin, at least the leadership, wants to keep it within the Boykin Spaniel Society. They have hunt test that are more like a field trial in that they give plaements and other functions for the breed, mostly in SC, but there are some held by reginoal clubs. Boykins can participate in UKC hunt tests.

There is a splinter group that is trying for AKC recognition, and AKC requires a number of hoops to be jumped.

There are great little dogs, I have 4, and my main interest is Brittanys.

Neil

[crackerd]

The story is essentially this: the Boykin got shanghaied into AKC by a few show folks who've got negligible interest in the breed as a working gundog. It gets better (or worse). Boykins are listed in miscellaneous class by the AKC, which means they cannot compete in the breed ring yet, but they were fast-tracked into field events (spaniel hunt tests but not field trials) because--take your pick--it's either a dying program desperate for entries or could sure stand a lot of bolstering.

Believe Neil commented some time ago that it wasn't a bad thing altogether for the Boykin to go AKC, and he's right in that breeding practices could be more stringent and standards adhered to--the Boykin over the years has been in need of both. But the breed has gotten markedly better in overall health in recent years. And the further fly in the ointment to AKC "recognition" is that while AKC has put them into spaniel tests, most Boykins are trained/used for this

--as working retrievers, but now cannot run AKC retriever hunt tests. Boykins have been running HRC for 20 years and I and others also run them in NAHRA.

My Boykin has never failed a NAHRA senior test (highest level) and actually is trained at a retriever field trial level. Which means she runs the equivalent of, or beyond, AKC master hunt tests every time she's trained. But a breed can only run one discipline once AKC has slotted it in a flushing, pointing or retrieving class--same thing happened recently with the American Water Spaniel. That's just how it is. If you're not testing, the AKC label oughtn't bother you on the surface. If you aren't testing but plan on having a working retriever (or flushing dog as are Neil's, or one and same as are mine), then I would go to the Boykin Spaniel Society for guidance on a litter. Can still be registered with AKC even sans studbook entry. Just that in getting a Boykin pup, when it comes to what you're getting, "AKC registered" cuts no ice--and certainly ain't likely to put you onto a pup that breaks it when sent out to retrieve a duck.

MG

[BCA1228]

I appreciate the info guys. I've got a good breeder, so am confident in the quality of his lines. I love the idea of a 30 lb. retriever, and have seen some real good ones work. I like the connection to my home state as well. Hopefully I'll have my pup some time in January. I'll be sure to post pictures. Thanks.

[BCA1228]

I love that goose pic by the way. Says a lot about your little guy.

[crackerd]

"He"'s a she that's all of 25 pounds soaking wet, and testimony from anybody who knows Boykins (Neil and bobman here for two) will tell you they're the born-to-retrievin'est dog on the planet. Congratulations and good deal getting up with a reputable breeder because that also tells you there's a good chance of getting not only the retrievin'est but maybe the longest-lived of gundogs--15-16 years is not unusual with Boykins. As for the connection to S.Carolina, 'fraid the secret's out and a lot of other waterfowling and upland haunts have co-opted your state dog.

MG

[Neil Mace]

MG,

Thanks for clearing it up, as you said, I do not think AKC affliation is a bad thing, if the breed club is properly motivated and maintains control. As it is, BSS is a fine organization, so I don't know that we need AKC either.

BTW, although I use my Bokins mostly as flushers, they see a good bit of time in the Arkansas rice fields and flooded timber.

Bokins hit the ground pretty much trained, teach them to come/stay, and you are ready to go hunting,

It is not just me, MG, Bobman, but everyone I have met that has a Boykin raves about how easy they are to train and what great hunting drive they have, they have a near cult following,

Neil

[Trekmoor]

I am beginning to feel very jealous of you lads over the pond I would love to own and work a Boykin ,we don't have 'em over here as far as I am aware. Got myself a cocker spaniel instead though , he's great ,just a little black bundle of good natural instincts.

Bill T.

[crackerd]

Bill, it'd be almost like coal to Newcastle or carpets to Kilmarnock, on account of the little devils you mentioned. The cockers you've got are not widely known in the US, and called "field cockers" to distinguish them from the show mops that proliferate here, both American cocker and "English" cocker alike. They are workers extraordinaire, though I've heard the term "gravediggers" thrown around insofar as their early retrieving MO. You all like to say that Labs are born half-trained while spaniels die half-trained, but Boykins as has been suggested are born retrieving to go along with their birdiness and the trainin's easy if you're wanting a dog to put up and pick up a bird. (They only dig holes into the arm of your sofa so they can keep you closer company.) Believe there are a couple down Tamworth way in the Midlands, but they're one of the gundog breeds that the quarantine has kept/keeps out of the UK.

MG

[Trekmoor]

Sorry - I seem to be hijacking this thread.

M.G. Thanks for the info. While I am sorry to hear that a Boykin and a work bred cocker are alike enough for you to descibe it as taking coal to Newcastle I must admit to finding it hard to believe that any other breed of about the same size could possibly exceed the capabilities of a good work bred cocker.

My present cocker is about 14 -15 months. He hunts like a thing possesed yet is relatively easy to control. He is a very natural retriever. Our season is just starting so up to now he has only had one fresh shot pigeon and one fresh shot rabbit to retrieve but he made it look like he'd been doing it for years. He is doing very well at all retrieving exercises. He loves it !

For a joke with "the lads" I made a dummy for him that resembles half a sheep He flabbergasted me by simply getting out there and without fuss fetching it back !

I had thought maybe Boykins were even better............ I'm not sure whether to be pleased or not to find out that they are much the same !

I understand that the cocker reputation of being undertakers began with a dog Keith Erlandson mentions in his gundog book. Apparently this cocker was brilliant but would occasionally take birds away and bury them rather than retrieve them during field trials. He was promptly nicknamed "The Undertaker " and since he was a "bleep" good dog he was widely used at stud. Probably most cocker lines carry his blood.

Thanks again for the info on Boykins - if I ever get the chance I'd probably still buy one - curiousity killed the cat !

Bill T.

[ACooper]

I have been interested in field cockers for several years as we hunt a ton of stubble for pheasants, they give our pointing dogs fits in the stubble. So when someone above mentioned cockers and boykins were similar, I was surprised. Do Boykins cover the ground in a similar fashion as cockers? thanks

[BCA1228]

Crackered or Neil. In your experience, when is the water to cold for your Boykins?

[crackerd]

In South Carolina, probably never. Several of my retriever training partners *winter* in S.C., as do some pros. I'm further up the coast, and the water's too cold for a Boykin only when it gets beyond skim ice.

MG

[mtlee]

Crackered or Neil. In your experience, when is the water to cold for your Boykins?

I don't think the water gets to cold for Shorthairs here. I've never not taken mine because of the temperature outside. We hunted in the snow last year (very light flurry of course). In my experience as long as you can keep them out of the water between retrieves they're fine. If I'm not close to land I use the Avery Ruff Stand.