Dog pricing

[Greg Jennings]

As I said earlier, this thread has ceased to be amusing.

1. Every puppy is a crap shoot.
2. Better breeding helps the odds.
3. Top price is determined by what the market will bear.
4. If people have a "long view" and have an altruistic bent, they have every right to help support their game (and their future demand) by selling puppies for less than the market will bear. Personally, my hat's off to them.

Those are established facts.

Greg J.

[tfbirddog2]

WR , I agree with you on your post, like I said in my post about 4 pages ago to answer someone and never got a rebutle or anything from anyone.It seem to be that somefolks around here wont even listen to a persons oppinion unless they know them from the "trialing world".I remember when Grant started the site it believe it was called GUNDOG forum not Trialdog forum or the Pi**ing post.Maybe the post should have been what are pups going for in your area or what are you asking on a up comimg litter? Or what is your top dollar for a pup, or is a pup worth a 1000 bucks.I gonna stop here cause I like this site and comimg here and bsing with the gundog folks and about half the trialers that still have their feet on the ground too.Sorry to get off subject, just venting alittle about what turned into a peeing contest about PUPPIES.

[Greg Jennings]

I remember when Grant started the site it believe it was called GUNDOG forum not Trialdog forum or the Pi**ing post..

We've been having a discussion about that in the Moderators forum and I've had it with Grant a couple of times via phone. The direction was, is, and will be that GDF is newbie, hunter, etc. friendly. It is not a hang out for any small clique.

Greg J.

[Better Birddogs]

CR I can see Vizlas or Weims being a little more expensive simply because in a lot of cases the hunt has been bred out of them in some cases. I still don't fully agree with the idea of recouping your costs. I think this is the philosophy of those who work dogs for a living. I don't so I can't relate.

I keep my dogs priced reasonably and I still make a little money. I think others could do the same thing thats all.


For those of you slogging around on public land these two pics are for you. The first pic is of opening day 07. The second is of Sunday's hunt.







25 of us were done hunting by 0930 both days. Not bad for slogging around on public ground. I love KS! That's my buddy's shorthair. She's a fantastic dog. He got her for free out of the local paper.

[PowerPoint]

Need any guides??

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

Several points simply need to be made here...

NO ONE made fun or put down hunters. I made the point that trialing and hunting are not mutually exclusive. Sure, many hunters hunt their dogs rears off all season, hunting 60 days a year, but many hunt 3 days a year. Many trialer's dogs have never seen a wild bird, not one. However, in Texas, in a decent year, many of us trialers are also hunters. Leases in Colorado City, Spur, Turkey, Aspermont, Paducah, etc. will have hunters, mostly from 4 wheelers or Jeeps, granted, many running 10 dogs, granted also, but will see 40 and 50 coveys. Shoot, they claim around 75 covey days on the King Ranch. I don't see how you point that many, but that's what they claim. I flat don't see the need prove the number of coveys, 500 in a year, averaging 20 a day is not in any way an unusual year here. Further, I seldom shoot birds at all. I run my dogs and allow others to shoot. I still have birds in the freezer from two years ago and have now taken to giving them to the church, friends, etc. Be assured, Charlie didn't mention it, but around his area, Seymour, he sees that many all year long also. I can post plenty of pics of my dogs on point and some with dead birds, 30 plus, but I haven't even taken a pic of my dogs with "the kill" in around 5 years. Don't need to prove to my wife or my kids or anyone else how good my dogs are or numbers killed over the dogs. Certainly not to some unknown on a chat site on the net. Many who have hunted over my dogs can voutch for their abilities. Exactly why I haven't paid for a lease in 6 years. I get enough invitations to hunt Graham, Spur, Aspermont, Paducah, western OK, SW Kansas, why have a lease?

Why did no one mention the ridiculous price of a show dog pup selling for $1,500 or a Ladradoodle selling for $1,500. Labradoodles are mutts. So, supply and demand says some GSP trial line dogs from Nuke, linebred Greif,Linebred Rusty, double Clown, Cutter, Spekk, are bringing even more. They produce and their production has proven to win. Further, these males aren't bred to 30 females every year, most hit in the head, and the ones that aren't hit in the head sold for $200. A glut of pups causes this low pricing. A shortage and proper breeding, plus demand, brings on the $1,000. Is a Maserati worth $200,000? Of course not, in my eyes. But, to Mark Cuban it just may be.

That's a ton of pheasants Better, you have apparently found the single absolute ONLY place in KS with above average pheasant numbers. Their numbers have been the lowest in the last 30 years. Many hunted all year and saw a total of 10 birds. I will assume those are actually wild birds, not pre-released or pen birds released that day. I'll assume also that you truly had the only place in Kansas with better than average numbers. In fact, you may have the single greatest hunting spot on public land in the entire world. I assume you called KSDF & W and they are now doing a study on what freakish occurrence happened in that ONE spot in Kansas. You did seem to take offense to my slodging comment. I did not say you were the "slodger". What I said is that the average hunter doesn't get out even 10 days a year and that usually only hunts 2 days, that he really is far from a serious hunter and that THAT person shouldn't call me for a pup. Comment had ZERO to do with you or your hunting.

Markj, please explain why it is necessary to completely dissect incorrectly and slant words that are said? NO ONE period, at all, even slightly, knocked hunters because they don't trial. It is always the trialers who are called non-hunters, period. Please post one single post that knocked hunters for not trialing, even alluded to that. We would love to have more true hunters trial. The experience gained from 25 years of hunting wild birds over dogs would be invaluable. Trialers are called NON-HUNTERS over and over again in all of these sites. Some trialers have never hunted. Many, however, Charlie and myself, for example, are still more hunter than trialer. We just happen to trial. I have hunted over pointers, GSPs, Vizslas, Weims, Brits, for the better part of 37 years, on nothing but wild birds, primarily in OK and TX. I do not buy that if a person ran a dog in two trials 10 years ago that he is a trialer or that he has trialed for 10 years. Further, I don't buy that if a person hunts 3 days a year on public or private lands, sees 2 coveys, that he is a hunter. I don't care if he travels to Kansas from Illinios for an annual 2 day KS pheasant hunt that he is really a hunter. If you are a hunter, you hunt. You spend the time to get your dogs on wild birds, you travel, you get the best out of your dogs. Those are hunters IMHO. Motorcycles, I just bought a Honda 230 two weeks ago and have now gone three days up on the Red River. So, what was the point of that? And Sir, as I said earlier to Better, don't believe your name was mentioned in the slodging post. If you do hunt more than ten days, SIR, then you are still not the norm. Good for you.

Larry, so many consider a started dog, one that will kind of point and might retrieve, has been put on two pigeons. Your definition is certainly more far reaching. I tend to believe a started dog is one that is ready to be hunted. Further, anyone who says it takes under a month to steady a dog to wing and shot is using a ton of electricity and taking all the "want to" and style out of the dog, permanently.

[topher40]

Easy Powerpoint......... Get in Line!! Actually BB's pictures are proof that there arent any more birds in Ks, heck he shot them al!

[Better Birddogs]

Chris I know that I shot 8 of those and fired about 45 shots in the process so I think it's safe to say that I left a few live ones out there.

[wems2371]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Denise

[markj]

Tru, if a guy only goes out 3 times a year he is still a hunter. Maybe it is the way you post as if you are the "standard," others need to achive. Fts are a game, turn the brace loose, ride up on a find, dismount, shoot the cap gun send him off for another find. Whereas in real life hunting there are no released or planted birds, the dog must find them, they also (the birds) run and relocate so the hunter dog must pin him down long enough for you to get there and do the flush and shoot. Then hunter dog must find the bird and bring him back to you. Quite an accomplishment in my opinion. Wild birds also fly faster, longer and will fight to survive a bit harder than the pen raised quail I see at FTs. I dont see a need to spend 10 grand on trialing a pup and you did say that if a person wasnt going to do so you dont want to talkto that guy. Then you mentioned 10 grand on hunting the pup. Why I havent spent that much in all my life hunting and I been hunting since 1964 which was a very goodyear I must say in Nebr, limit was 3roosters and one hen at that time.

This is also why most hunters want a closer working do, least around here where the tall gras goes for miles and birds set tight most of the time.

I also see nothing wrong with paying a grand on a pup, if it gets you what you want thn go for it, may not see it again if at all.

[markj]

Shot 8 of em? Iwould not post that info unless it was a game farm you shot em on, public land limits are what in KS? it is 3 here so that is ll I ever shoot. Isnt about filling the limit......... that kinda reflects poorly on us hunters sir... Shoot the limit then put the gun away and let others shoot is my method. Got many pics to prove it altho my cousin in Mich claims I used the same 3 birds just to tease him he used t ocome for opeing week and went home with a cooler of frozen pheas

[Better Birddogs]

Shot 8 of em? Iwould not post that info unless it was a game farm you shot em on, public land limits are what in KS? it is 3 here so that is ll I ever shoot. Isnt about filling the limit......... that kinda reflects poorly on us hunters sir... Shoot the limit then put the gun away and let others shoot is my method. Got many pics to prove it altho my cousin in Mich claims I used the same 3 birds just to tease him he used t ocome for opeing week and went home with a cooler of frozen pheas

Mark those pics are of two different days. I shot my 4 bird limit on Saturday and then did the same thing on Sunday. That's how I came to eight birds. I shot my 4 bird limit on Saturday morning of opening weekend and I was only 50 yards into the first field. I took my gun back to my truck and turned out a pup so she could get in on the action and I hunted the field with no gun.

[wems2371]

25 of us were done hunting by 0930 both days. Not bad for slogging around on public ground. I love KS! That's my buddy's shorthair. She's a fantastic dog. He got her for free out of the local paper.

Well, there's the answer..................we shouldn't pay for puppies at all, because obviously super dogs can be had for free. Actually, I agree with that, as I own a rescue lab........but am just following this thread on how we determine a dogs worth for everyone else.

...........25 guys in the field and opening day? Sounds like a recipe for success with many dogs. Denise

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

...........25 guys in the field and opening day? Sounds like a recipe for success with many dogs. Denise

Sounds like a recipe for DISASTER to me. I don't see the sport or reason to have that many people or dogs in a hunting party, especially with pointing dogs. :roll: :roll: JMO

Doug

[Better Birddogs]

Wems it was a blast. I like hunting with that particular group because alot of the guys have different breeds. One guy has a Vizla. One guy a Gordon Setter. One guy has two Weims. One guy has a Large Munsterlander. It's a lot of fun for dog guy like me to see different dogs work that I don't normally see.


Ricky Ticky I used to be of the same mindset until I started hunting in North Central and Western Kansas in field were with 25 of us we can barely cover a third of it. A lot of our hunting party is 60 years and older so they like to block. It's a lot of fun.

[BrettBryan]

Can someone tell me what the original question was? I forgot after reading 8 pages of responses

Oh, yeah, what makes a dog worth $5000 or a puppy worth $1000. I'd have to just say supply/demand.

[gar-dog]

Ricky Ticky I used to be of the same mindset until I started hunting in North Central and Western Kansas in field were with 25 of us we can barely cover a third of it. A lot of our hunting party is 60 years and older so they like to block. It's a lot of fun.

I was a little surprised to see Ricky Ticky's comment given he is in Iowa. In SD last year on some of those large corn fields we definitely had 20-odd people - a few blockers and then the other guys spaced and marching along. It was always fun when we got to the edge of the field when birds that had been pushed got pinned. Even then the score was probably only 50-50. It definitely is a different style of hunting and dictated by the size and type of field.

You want chaos, go to a NJ WMA on a stocking day at 6:30am. That's a bit of a turn-off, and one of the reasons I got a dog to do some afternoon clean-up when everyone is gone. But frankly, now that I have a dog, I'd just as soon trek the 3-4 hours to get into the grouse woods in several states north of here.

[gar-dog]

Can someone tell me what the original question was? I forgot after reading 8 pages of responses

Oh, yeah, what makes a dog worth $5000 or a puppy worth $1000. I'd have to just say supply/demand.

No, it was "what kind of idiot fool trialer/hunter (pick one) would spend $200/$1000 (pick one) for a pedigreed/newspaper (pick one) dog?"

[ElhewPointer]

Maybe this has already been said, because I didn't read every post, but, my grandfather was in the race horse game. You think a $1000 puppy is crazy. How about year old colts going for $1 million/plus. The dog game is cheap compared to this.

[Petra]

Wems your postings are great, since everyone who has ever been on this forum has commented I thought I would give my two cents, My latest GSP was the 350 model, the last two 1200 model, she has everything going for her, but you can read from my other postings that there are some health issues, could happen to any dog, but the difference is the other dogs would have been health guarented, I never could give up one of my dogs, but the offer would have been there. also most include some training usually bird and gun intro. SUPPLY AND DEMAND, CAPITALISM, any breeder who does all of the health checks, titles, researching, training,etc... will say that the pups usually don't make money, one complication with the bitch or pups and they are in the hole, usually training and boarding brings in money and still most need another job or a spouse that will support their passion. and the breeded with the passion for the breed is the breeder I want to go to for a pup. MY brother breeds German Shepard Dogs, OF COARSE, with his nose in the air only 100% German and German trained and scored, the prices are in the 5 figures due to bidding wars, by the buyers, if he or anyone else can get it more power to them, these dogs are working dogs and a statues symbol for them,5000 to them is like 5 dollars to me, and good for them . Now I'm off subject. There aren't alot of dogs at that level in the US, SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

I was a little surprised to see Ricky Ticky's comment given he is in Iowa.

There are some places in Iowa like that, and some people do hunt that way, but to me that's just about killing birds as fast as you can. That leads to people taking shots that they shouldn't, and complete confusion for a pointing dog. If one person takes 40 some shots to kill 8 birds, it's gonna take one heck of a dog to be able to withstand that kind of gunfire and chaos from 25 guns. Sounds like a good way to make a dog gunshy.

Actually, most people that I know that do the "death march", use Labs that are at heal with the blockers. Your group may be very safe, but after quite a few years of guiding both wild and preserve hunts, I have found that when the lead starts to fly a lot of guys forget the safety rules.

Give me one or two guys, a big field and a pointing dog or two, and let's go shoot some birds over a good solid point. That's the way I like to do it.

You won't see me marching with the rest of the drones.

Doug

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

Better, you still didn't tell us what year and in what brace your brits ran at Ames???

I guess I'm confused, you put 30 old men in a field, you run 4 or 5 or 10 dogs at one time. You shoot automatics and each person shoots 4 or 5 times, so each pheasant that comes up, there are around 10 people shooting at one bird and a total of around 25 shots. Now, how many of those birds are pointed? How much control is on the dogs with so many in the TALL grass with so many hunters, so many shots, and so many birds falling everywhere. Nope, doesn't sound like a tragedy at all. Don't see a need for a dog. Further, I care more about my dogs than allow 30 of my closest friends, most you don't really know, to fire haphazardly at birds. I'd bet a million dollars that 90% of the birds are bumped, flush wild, or are kicked up by the line, again, not sure there's a need for dogs.

markj, TO ME, that person is not much of a hunter and NO, no one has to live up to my standard. However, that guy will not buy a dog from me. Again, you missed the point by deciding I was saying something I was not. We each have our own opinion. I sell the few pups I have to select few, usually friends. If they are not gonna spend the money I want them to spend on the dog, they won't get a dog. Please don't lecture me on wild bird hunting. My dogs see more wild birds in one year than most see in two lifetimes.

[gar-dog]

There are some places in Iowa like that, and some people do hunt that way, but to me that's just about killing birds as fast as you can. That leads to people taking shots that they shouldn't, and complete confusion for a pointing dog. If one person takes 40 some shots to kill 8 birds, it's gonna take one heck of a dog to be able to withstand that kind of gunfire and chaos from 25 guns. Sounds like a good way to make a dog gunshy.

Actually, most people that I know that do the "death march", use Labs that are at heal with the blockers. Your group may be very safe, but after quite a few years of guiding both wild and preserve hunts, I have found that when the lead starts to fly a lot of guys forget the safety rules.

Well, one thing that is wrong about it is in keeping track of limits. I understand some groups treat is as a "group limit" and you have individual guys shooting more than their personal limit. When I did it they used flushing dogs, not pointers. Anyway, it is not really my thing, but was a good time and a different way of doing it. I prefer the solitude or near solitude of a couple of guys foraging around over a pointer or two.

[Tejas]

There are some places in Iowa like that, and some people do hunt that way, but to me that's just about killing birds as fast as you can. That leads to people taking shots that they shouldn't, and complete confusion for a pointing dog. If one person takes 40 some shots to kill 8 birds, it's gonna take one heck of a dog to be able to withstand that kind of gunfire and chaos from 25 guns. Sounds like a good way to make a dog gunshy.

Actually, most people that I know that do the "death march", use Labs that are at heal with the blockers. Your group may be very safe, but after quite a few years of guiding both wild and preserve hunts, I have found that when the lead starts to fly a lot of guys forget the safety rules.

Well, one thing that is wrong about it is in keeping track of limits. I understand some groups treat is as a "group limit" and you have individual guys shooting more than their personal limit. When I did it they used flushing dogs, not pointers. Anyway, it is not really my thing, but was a good time and a different way of doing it. I prefer the solitude or near solitude of a couple of guys foraging around over a pointer or two.

I have hunted pheasant in a fairly large group (eight to ten) and it was fun.....that is until one of the guys got shot in the eye by a "flyer" shot. Even before that unfortunate part of the experience it was readily apparent that it was no place for a dog that was trained to be steady to wing, shot and flush. I heeled my dog for one pass and then put him in the truck. Neither I nor one of my dogs will ever be part of a group of 25 "hunting" birds. As a matter of fact, I make it a practice not to hunt with more than three persons in the party and never more than two dogs on the ground at one time, frequently only one dog if there are specific training goals I'm working on. If one of the other persons does not follow the rule of staying even(not behind or ahead),the hunt ends early.

I think I'm beginning to understand why those free and $250 dogs get the job done.

[Better Birddogs]

Better, you still didn't tell us what year and in what brace your brits ran at Ames???

I guess I'm confused, you put 30 old men in a field, you run 4 or 5 or 10 dogs at one time. You shoot automatics and each person shoots 4 or 5 times, so each pheasant that comes up, there are around 10 people shooting at one bird and a total of around 25 shots. Now, how many of those birds are pointed? How much control is on the dogs with so many in the TALL grass with so many hunters, so many shots, and so many birds falling everywhere. Nope, doesn't sound like a tragedy at all. Don't see a need for a dog. Further, I care more about my dogs than allow 30 of my closest friends, most you don't really know, to fire haphazardly at birds. I'd bet a million dollars that 90% of the birds are bumped, flush wild, or are kicked up by the line, again, not sure there's a need for dogs.

Blake I never have been lucky enough to compete there. Having said that I also didn't come on here and make a claim about my dogs competing at the highest level when in fact they don't. You're a fraud in my book Blake. A weekender. A wannabe. A pretender. Whatever you want to call it. No one cares about your mouth or your points so you resort to insulting people. I can't fight a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. I'm tiring of you. You ruin good conversations. Its sad they let you continue on this board.

Don't hate because I have pictures to back up my claims about public land hunts. I've yet to see yours. Oh wait, your claims are probably a fraud too. Go figure.


THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO PROVIDED INSIGHTFUL POSTS. THERE WERE MANY!

Yet another conversation the moderators have let Blake ruin. When will it end?

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

I think I'm beginning to understand why those free and $250 dogs get the job done.

It probably wouldn't matter how much the dog costs when you're in the middle of something like that. A true test of a dog is when it is allowed to do what it was born to do, not just being there when birds pour out of the field because people and dogs are kicking or scaring them up once everybody starts shooting.

But, you may be on to something about those free dogs.

Doug

[Bird Dog 67]

I’ve been observing this thread for the past few days and have to say this may be one of the most beneficial threads (to me) that I’ve seen here at GDF. I for one welcome the differing view points, the arguments, bickering, and even the occasional mud slinging……..

I guess it’s time for me to throw in my .02 cents and offer this:
Is $1000 too much to spend on a puppy………for me yes it is.

Does that mean somebody shouldn’t charge that much? Nope it doesn’t.

Do I think I should have to pay for the food that a pup ate before I even owned it anymore than I feel I should have to pay for the gas a vehicle has burned before I owned it? Absolutely not.

Do I think it either benefits or hurts a breed to sell a litter for $250 vs $1000? Honestly, I don’t know, and I would dare say that there isn’t really any empirical evidence that indicates whether or not it impacts a breed one way or the other. I can think of many anecdotal examples and arguments for and against, but that really becomes more of a matter of opinion rather than fact.

If I hunt behind my $500 dog that has no letters or titles behind his name and he does what I want when I want him to, does that make him better or worse than the one who paid $2500? Nah, it just makes him mine.

Does the number of times I hunt in a year make me more or less of a hunter? Not at all, in the truest sense of being a hunter in my honest opinion, it’s the experience that each individual encounters that makes them a hunter. Not the amount of game taken, not the number of times in the field/woods per season, not how much he/she paid for a dog or a gun or a truck or their boots.

Does any of this make me right or wrong...............depends on who you ask I guess.

Guess the whole point of my ramblings are, to each their own unless it harms another. There’s room for everybody………………………let’s go hunting.

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

I'm sorry better. I purely asked your dogs be held to the same standard you expect mine to be held to.

All told, nice post.

[Greg Jennings]

All,

I've got a flurry of PMs about this thread. I'm absolutely head down at work and don't have time to read much less effectively moderate.

I'm going to lock this till I can get a handle on it. I fully expect that I will unlock it.

Greg J.

[ezzy333]

I have watched this thread deteriate into a couple of members either bragging about themselves or running the other one down. This adds nothing to any one else's knowledge and give little room for any one to give a straight forward opinion on the original topic. This seems to be a habit with a few people on this board and overall they have accomplished nothing other than losing a whole lot of respect from the rest of the membership. When people post they want straightforward answers and not some long explanation as to what constitutes a bird dog or why you don't even talk to people who don't ask the appropriate questions. We don't need to know and most don't want to know how many days you hunt, how many birds you see, or how wild the birds are. We don't need to hear who has the better dogs, runs in the best trials, or spends the most money.

If this starts again the thread will be locked permantly and further action will be considered for those taking part.

[Don]

I’ve been observing this thread for the past few days and have to say this may be one of the most beneficial threads (to me) that I’ve seen here at GDF. I for one welcome the differing view points, the arguments, bickering, and even the occasional mud slinging……..

I guess it’s time for me to throw in my .02 cents and offer this:
Is $1000 too much to spend on a puppy………for me yes it is.

Does that mean somebody shouldn’t charge that much? Nope it doesn’t.

Do I think I should have to pay for the food that a pup ate before I even owned it anymore than I feel I should have to pay for the gas a vehicle has burned before I owned it? Absolutely not.

Do I think it either benefits or hurts a breed to sell a litter for $250 vs $1000? Honestly, I don’t know, and I would dare say that there isn’t really any empirical evidence that indicates whether or not it impacts a breed one way or the other. I can think of many anecdotal examples and arguments for and against, but that really becomes more of a matter of opinion rather than fact.

If I hunt behind my $500 dog that has no letters or titles behind his name and he does what I want when I want him to, does that make him better or worse than the one who paid $2500? Nah, it just makes him mine.

Does the number of times I hunt in a year make me more or less of a hunter? Not at all, in the truest sense of being a hunter in my honest opinion, it’s the experience that each individual encounters that makes them a hunter. Not the amount of game taken, not the number of times in the field/woods per season, not how much he/she paid for a dog or a gun or a truck or their boots.

Does any of this make me right or wrong...............depends on who you ask I guess.

Guess the whole point of my ramblings are, to each their own unless it harms another. There’s room for everybody………………………let’s go hunting.

BD, this is a great post!

[Greg Jennings]

Yet another conversation the moderators have let Blake ruin. When will it end?

Look in a mirror. By my reading of this thread, it was a Blake versus Better Birddogs argument that ruined it and the fault lies with both of you.

...And while I'm at it, please understand that there is a vast difference between not being a slave to "political correctness" and being a poster child for Tourette's syndrome.

Greg J.

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

Thanks Greg, I guess I'll just let betterbirdogs win and say goodbye. Well moderated. You, Ezzy, and better win.

[wems2371]

You could beat this dead horse forever and neither of you would win. Better doesn't win. He lost 8 pages ago by telling me vehemently what I should and should not pay for a dog.................. I agreed with you Tru, but you lose leverage when you're still arguing with him/her 8 pages later.

If people really care so darn much about how much others are paying or willing to pay for an 8 week old puppy, perhaps a poll would be in order--but then I'm sure that would get out of hand too with remarks. Maybe we could have a poll without any remarks being made. One thing I have discovered by just being on GDF for 9 months (through PMs), is that there are a lot of folks lurking in the shadows that have opinions but are afraid to make waves so they just sit back and watch. IMO those of us posting are not necessarily the average, we just aren't too worried about looking stupid or getting our chops busted. Denise

[Greg Jennings]

All,

Since I have parties on both side of this screaming equally at me about moderating and the other party, and some of those people screaming about moderating are the principal folks asking for looser moderation, I feel like we've done a pretty balanced job.

Greg J.

[markj]

Thanks for clearing that up BB on the birds shot. Limit is 4 in KS? I may need to go there for a hunt.

Tru, wasnt lecturing you at all, other way around dude. The guys I hunt with wouldnt want to buy a dog from you so dont worry about any of them calling you, we dont have 20 grand a year to spend on a hunting companion hats off to those that do and can.

A pup is worth whatever the buyer wants to spend bottom line. Cost to buy can be due toaguy wanting that particular blood line, or a dog from a breeding that has had pups that grew into dogs that do what that particular buyer wants from a dog.

Some titles carry more weight to me, like the DC in AKC or the KS in DKV. Both mean to me that the dog is bred for conformiy and field, which is what I want in a dog. So I will spend what the asking price is for this type of dog. Doesnt matter to me all if another thinks it is too much, it will be my dog not theirs, my money spent not theirs.

Grandpa used to say "weed yer own garden before you talk about mine" he also said "better to make 100 pennies than 3 dimes"

Now as BB said, I will just go hunting and think not about this BB or thread, the dogs in the field matter most to me, my dogs that is. Buy what you want, spend what you wish to spend, think not about what the other guy is spending, isnt your money, isnt your dog.

[Hasty]

A lot of the dog prices have gone too high but there's a flip side too. If a guy doesn't want to do the work to train a dog but wants a finished fully broke dog that's a proven hunter what's the big deal about paying a few thousand dollars? Bass fishermen pay upwards of $10,000.00 just for the boat and that only gives them the ability to be on the water. That's not even a sure thing that he'll catch fish. The dog will last longer and not break down as often. I think people will pay what it's worth to them to participate in the sport that they want to be in.

[Yawallac]

All,

Since I have parties on both side of this screaming equally at me about moderating and the other party, and some of those people screaming about moderating are the principal folks asking for looser moderation, I feel like we've done a pretty balanced job.

Greg J.

Locking the thread, unlocking the thread, adding personal commentary, yada, yada, yada. If you had simply handled it with PMs behind the scene ... we may not have lost one of the best contributors to the site.

At times it seems that you want to "become the show" rather than just moderating it....

[zzweims]

The amazing thing to me, is that people actually ran crying to the moderator. :roll: If I didn't like what someone said, it would never occur to me to tattle and whine to Daddy. That's what children do.

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

[fuzznut]

Seems to be the order of the day, ..... It's Not MY Fault!!!!!

Back to the real subject, why do we sporting dog breeders work for 1980 wages? What else can you purchase that has not risen in price? Guns? Trucks? Dog Food?

I understand all the yada, yada, yada...but heck .... if I produce something someone places value in... not snobbery, just common sense.

Most any other breed of dog out there is going for well above $300.... well above! Why do we owe the world a cheap dog? Why should we be made to feel bad because we wish to recoup some of the dollars layed out to prove out breeding stock?

I don't know...it's a confusing topic of conversation!
Fuzz

[WildRose]

Fuzz the simple fact is the free market is a wonderful thing. If people get what they want and are happy with what they paid nothing can be better. It's way too easy for personalities to get in the way of a good, honest discussion. We birddog folks sometimes tend to get way too passionate about our own dogs. CR

[gar-dog]

I like a civilized forum, but a couple of knowledgeable people occassionally going at it is pretty interesting. I think this has been a great thread, and I liked the perspectives. Only one post I saw that had some name-calling was what I would consider inappropriate. I felt the poster should have gone back and edited that part. Problem is, it is a slippery slope, and if you let some of it go on it just increases and ultimately ruins the forum. I play hockey and the best games are when the refs pretty much call everything. When they start letting people get by with stuff, that's when things get out of hand, retaliation, etc.

[Greg Jennings]

All,

Since I have parties on both side of this screaming equally at me about moderating and the other party, and some of those people screaming about moderating are the principal folks asking for looser moderation, I feel like we've done a pretty balanced job.

Greg J.

Locking the thread, unlocking the thread, adding personal commentary, yada, yada, yada. If you had simply handled it with PMs behind the scene ... we may not have lost one of the best contributors to the site.

At times it seems that you want to "become the show" rather than just moderating it....

1. It's 9:38 PM EDT Thurs. I've been absolutely head-down at work all week. So, as stated, I locked the thread because it and the PMs (the first 10 or so of the over 20 PMs that flew around) were out of control and I didn't have time to work it. Ezzy later helped out and unlocked it.
2. As stated, I received over 20 PMs (and more e-mails) on the thread. PMs were flying like doves in Argentina.
3. The personal commentary was responding to the several posts each wanting moderator action against the other.
4. Ross, you have a lot to say about the moderating. Grant's phone number is on his evanced.com site. I suggest that you pick up the phone and call him to volunteer your services. You're more than welcome to have my spot.

Greg J.

[Willie Hunter]

This is my latest setter I just purchased, she is 3 1/2 years old. I paid a fair price for this broke dog.

[markj]

nice looking setter.

[ezzy333]

Willie,

That is a nice looking dog. Style and color sure looks nice.

Ezzy

[Willie Hunter]

Thanks for the kind words. Ya got to love a dog like this.

[Ryan Baumann]

I thought this is a fitting ending to this thread. We all love our dogs and this sport and this just tops it off. Its funny!!!! so much like how this thread unfolded but at the end of the day we all still love birddogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pff5lqSe2c

Its one of the funniest things I have ever heard.

Ryan.

Please don't bann me. Its a fitting ending !!!

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Ryan~Waaay too funny!!

Doug

[Ryan Baumann]

Ryan~Waaay too funny!!

Doug

I couldn't resist. itsa just to funny!

Ryan.