? about response to started dog

[natetnc]

i have just received a response e-mail from a kennel and not quite sure what it means. i asked if a certian dog was still available for sale and this is what i got back.

"Hi Nate. Nitro is for sale but he must stay on my string and be Field trialed by me for his life."

i am no longer interested in the dog as i have already purchased but what does this mean, specifically "stay on my string" and why would someone do this?

[kninebirddog]

this is where you own the dog the wins are recorded in your name but the handler keeps the dog to run and you foot the bills

I have thought about doing this with a couple dogs...but...sorry if my name is on the paper I would like to have control of my dog

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

I'm going to take a stab at this and I think I even now the dog your talking about but anyhow it means he is a top notch field trial dog that needs an owner but needs to be field trialed. String is his string of dogs that he trials.
I'm going to PM also

Rob

The FT guys could maybe explain better than I...

[ezzy333]

Knine explained it beautifully. They are wanting someone to foot the bills and in return they will list you as owner. The day I buy a dog that is the day the dog becomes mine and I will decide what and where he will live and compete. I really think its a rip-off but if someone is desperate to see their name in the records and is willing to pay a lot of dollars to see it I guess it's ok.

Ezzy

[natetnc]

the wins are recorded in your name

how does this benefit the owner footing the bills?

[natetnc]

if someone is desperate to see their name in the records

is this the only benefit?

[Dave Quindt]

Hold on folks!

There's a HUGE difference between demanding a dog stay with a pro and asking the amateur to be nothing more than the check writer.

In some cases the pro owns the dog. He may have developed it as a pup or he may have bought/traded/been given the dog from a client. He believes that the dog is good enough to be campaigned. It is in his best interest to find a owner that will campaign it and it is in his financial best interest to not see the dog be placed with another pro. Demand for truly exceptional prospects out-paces supply so he's going to not sell the dog unless it's to someone who will campaign it and use him as the pro.

In other cases an existing client owns the dog. For whatever reason they want out, but they don't want to see their pro loose business. They are willing to wait for the right owner to come along to buy the dog.

I know a good number of people who have bought dogs in these situations, from GSPs to FT Labs. Guess what? ALL of them took the dogs home, all of them ran the dogs at some point themselves and many of them came to the conclusion with the pro that it didn't make sense to continue to campaign the dog. None of them bought these dogs just to be the "name in the owner's slot".

And here's the dirty little secret; most of the dogs that are advertised as "must stay with me" don't end up being sold with that same condition! It's often a technique people use to separate the tire kickers from those who are serious.

FWIW,
Dave

[natetnc]

I know a good number of people who have bought dogs in these situations, from GSPs to FT Labs. Guess what? ALL of them took the dogs home, all of them ran the dogs at some point themselves and many of them came to the conclusion with the pro that it didn't make sense to continue to campaign the dog.

here is the thing though, when you run the dog "at some point" what do you get out of it? i doubt you have any nonmonetary connection with the dog. you may see some great dog work but you can go to a guide service and get that for much cheaper. i guess i just don't get the whole campaigning idea, i think there are better monetary "investments" out there.

[Don]

I would never go for a deal like that myself. I'm wondering how old this dog is?

[natetnc]

I would never go for a deal like that myself. I'm wondering how old this dog is?

4yrs, a bit older than i was interested in but thought i would inquire.


Another reply from the guy. I told him i wasn't interested in a FT dog but inquired about the arrangement.

his response: "Nitro would be owned by them and off season would go home but he will remain in competition during the trial season."

sounds like the owner would get a raw deal imo. i can see it now, the owner would probably get dressed up in all of his filson clothing to go pick up the dog in his new truck he bought for the trip with his new dog box that still has the aluminum smell in it. then he takes it to his country club home to put it in the dog lot to use as a conversation piece at his luncheons or dinner parties. he will entertain all of his friends with 2nd hand stories of his dogs adventures and accomplishments, then wait anticipating the comment, "i've got to tell you that looks like one heck of a bird dog and sounds like it too", his night will then be complete and his $ was well spent. eh, i'm just joking around not trying to take stabs at anyone that does this campaigning thing, its just not for me.

[Casper]

Hold on folks!

There's a HUGE difference between demanding a dog stay with a pro and asking the amateur to be nothing more than the check writer.

In some cases the pro owns the dog. He may have developed it as a pup or he may have bought/traded/been given the dog from a client. He believes that the dog is good enough to be campaigned. It is in his best interest to find a owner that will campaign it and it is in his financial best interest to not see the dog be placed with another pro. Demand for truly exceptional prospects out-paces supply so he's going to not sell the dog unless it's to someone who will campaign it and use him as the pro.

In other cases an existing client owns the dog. For whatever reason they want out, but they don't want to see their pro loose business. They are willing to wait for the right owner to come along to buy the dog.

I know a good number of people who have bought dogs in these situations, from GSPs to FT Labs. Guess what? ALL of them took the dogs home, all of them ran the dogs at some point themselves and many of them came to the conclusion with the pro that it didn't make sense to continue to campaign the dog. None of them bought these dogs just to be the "name in the owner's slot".

And here's the dirty little secret; most of the dogs that are advertised as "must stay with me" don't end up being sold with that same condition! It's often a technique people use to separate the tire kickers from those who are serious.

FWIW,
Dave

Just to add to what Dave posted. Not only does the new owner get the above but the new owner also gets full (or at least half) breeding rights to that dog. So if someone is looking for a dog to add to their breeding program this would be an ideal situation.

FWIW

[natetnc]

Just to add to what Dave posted. Not only does the new owner get the above but the new owner also gets full (or at least half) breeding rights to that dog. So if someone is looking for a dog to add to their breeding program this would be an ideal situation.

i guess that would make sense but wouldn't a stud fee be cheaper? or even multiple stud fees at that.

[Casper]

I dont know how it would be cheaper when you are being paid by others to breed to the dog "you" own

[Sharon]

If you've ever met someone who wants to own a winner BAD, you would understand campaigning better.

[natetnc]

I dont know how it would be cheaper when you are being paid by others to breed to the dog "you" own

got that, i was just thinking more from a personal stand point, breeding their own line from the campaigned dog. i have nearly 0 knowlege in this area, just curious about it. generally speaking, would the stud fees be enough to compensate for the expenses?

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

I'm sure Nitro is a fine dog or else he wouldn't bother with wanting to keep him on his string. If the dogs as good as I think he is, havn't seen him run but know the types of dogs said pro is running, he is in probably the best hands he could be in ( I guessed which dog this is and was right) . Nate I'm going to guess that Nitro is alot of dog, not knocking you, but I'm guessing that the Chip dog you bought is more what you were looking for anyways. Said pro really likes huge allage hour stake running dogs and I'm guessing Nitro is suited more towards that not saying he wouldn't make a hunting dog I'm just sure he's alot of dog for someone that has never owned a "trial dog". I would love to have a FC havn't got one yet got some young prospects though so hopefully some day. But thats what this dog is he is a FC type dog that deserves just that to be campaigned to his FC. Nitro is very outstandinly bred dog though and very fine looking to boot. Stud fees like having puppies never compensate for anything I try hard not to look at my books to closely at the end of the year but cost vs income you'll just never come out ahead in the end. Having dogs is closer to a hobby than a business for most people it is strictly a hobby for me I enjoy it but absolutely make no money from it in the long run. By the way I'm sure that Chip dog will be a good one Clayton raises some nice foot hunting dogs. I had a dog out of his stuff for awhile Shake was his name he's now in Pennsylvania and hunts 4-5 days a week during there CSA season as a guides dog. He was a nice dog just not what I was looking for at that time.

Good luck
Robbie

[natetnc]

Nate I'm going to guess that Nitro is alot of dog, not knocking you, but I'm guessing that the Chip dog you bought is more what you were looking for anyways. Said pro really likes huge allage hour stake running dogs and I'm guessing Nitro is suited more towards that not saying he wouldn't make a hunting dog I'm just sure he's alot of dog for someone that has never owned a "trial dog".

i don't take offense to these kinds of comments, anyone who has read my prior postings would know that statement is true. i don't want you guys to think i was trying to purchase this dog after the e-mail response. when i first looked at the website it just said "dogs for sale" and had 4 pictures, the ped links didn't even work so i was just shooting a quick question about a nice looking dog. when i got the response i was just curious how that whole situation worked and if any of you were involved in that sort of deal.

i am new to the sport, there is no need for me to buy a dog that is FC material or pay the amount he would want (we didn't talk $). since my $1500 investment in snowboarding gear only to HATE IT , i am a firm believer in getting my feet wet before jumping in. i am pretty sure (98%) that the dog was not titled "available for field trialers only" when i e-mailed him about the dog, i have no interest in trialing. he must have had other nontrialers inquiring about it too or had not updated his site in a while.

i think chip will fit in nicely with the type of hunting i do and is really close to what i was looking for. so far i have only heard good things about KCK and they have been really good to deal with.