smallest short haired breed

[up-hunter]

I have a griffon right now and love her to death but she doesn't handle the heat of the early half of grouse season very well.

So i was thinking about a short haired breed, and i was wondering what breed is the smallest of the short haired breeds.

thanks in advance

[ezzy333]

If I had your dog and wanted a shorthaired dog I would buy a pair of clippers. Both you and the dog would love it.

Ezzy

[Windyhills]

Don't think it's a good idea to give a summer cut to a wire-haired breed...at least it's a big no-no with some of their owners that I know!

[Ayres]

Well, what's considered short haired? Of the "wash'n'wear" variety of short haired pointing breeds, I'd say the vizsla is the smallest in size. If you consider a Brittney's coat to be "short haired", then the Brit beats the Viz in the micro department.

[ezzy333]

Don't think it's a good idea to give a summer cut to a wire-haired breed...at least it's a big no-no with some of their owners that I know!

Wire haired dogs should be stripped if you want the coat to look good for showing or such. But for dogs in the field many of them are clipped because of the time and work involved in stripping.

Ezzy

[griffgirl]

Don't think it's a good idea to give a summer cut to a wire-haired breed...at least it's a big no-no with some of their owners that I know!

Wire haired dogs should be stripped if you want the coat to look good for showing or such. But for dogs in the field many of them are clipped because of the time and work involved in stripping.

Ezzy

Agree.....But once you get the stripping down pat its easy.Just by your mars coat king and get rid of all the old dead hair and she will have a nice summer coat.Never cut/clip a wire haired dog.Parkers coat is flat with no wolly looking hair. The comb works wonders and is cheaper than getting another dog.

[Trey]

Braque du bournonaiss (I am sure I killed the spelling on that).

[bobman]

Female Ep from Coverdog lines would be the smallest, and a great dog to boot for grouse. I have a beavermeadow benjamin dog and shes maybe 40 pounds and a love.

[ohiogsp]

I have a adult female shorthair that weights 40lbs.

[High Voltage]

I see Trey beat me to the Braque du Bourbonnais you can check them out at
http://www.rufnitkennels.com
I have got to see several of Shari's dogs at NAVHDA events and have tried to smuggle a few home

[ohiogsp]

I see Trey beat me to the Braque du Bourbonnais you can check them out at
http://www.rufnitkennels.com
I have got to see several of Shari's dogs at NAVHDA events and have tried to smuggle a few home

I don't know alot about these dogs but they have some on the site here that weight 60lbs. There is also some small ones but I think they are compariable to shorthairs? Right?

[rkelly]

I went and looked at a couple of female GSP's that are just over a year old last week. Both weighed no more than 35lbs and the breeder thought they would fill out at around 40lbs.

[zzweims]

I have a adult female shorthair that weights 40lbs.

I've got an adult Weimaraner who tips the scales at 38lbs and another who is a whopping 40. They are my little gray pocket rockets (but in general, weims are larger. I just breed 'em small) In general, field bred viszlas are probably the smallest.

Aline
http//sitekreator.com/zzfarms

[mtlee]

Female Ep from Coverdog lines would be the smallest, and a great dog to boot for grouse. I have a beavermeadow benjamin dog and shes maybe 40 pounds and a love.

I hunted w/ one of Yawallac's "pocket pointers" last season and I swear that female couldn't have weighed over 35 lbs!

[Trey]

"I don't know alot about these dogs but they have some on the site here that weight 60lbs. There is also some small ones but I think they are compariable to shorthairs? Right?"

She might have a few males pushing 60, but most of them are in the 40's bitches in the 30's. Even the 60 lb one (does it list one on her site?) her biggest male isn't near the size of my shorthairs even my bitch (57), and my males are about 65. The are very compact and musular little things and are packed with muscle, so they may weigh more then the look like, but I am betting most of them are in the middle of the standard.


The standard is:

Dogs 18-25 kg (approx. 39.68-55.11 lb)
Bitches 16-22 kg (approx. 35.27-48.50 lb)

Shorthair standard for bitches is 45 at the minimum.

[wems2371]

Just my opinion, but unless you're looking for an adult dog, where you know it's end size and weight--I wouldn't buy a puppy from a breed that typically gets bigger in size than you want. There's enough guesswork in how a pup is going to size out compared to breed standard/averages. If I were looking for a smaller breed of hunting dog, I would do just that and stick with pups from those breeds. There's got to be plenty of good ones out there.

Seems like your best bet is to do a summer clip...............unless you're really after another dog. Denise

[griffgirl]

Craig.....What is it that you need help with?Is it training?Theres many people that could help you.I hate to see you get another dog just because theres some issues.Griffs are very easy to train and from what Griffman has said you have a good little girl.Maybe someone could take her off your hands.I'd hate to see her not doing anything.......DONT CLIP HER ...
Shawn

[ezzy333]

I am amazed at the people who are saying don't clip a wirehaired dog. Clipping does nothing to a wirehair different than any other coat. Why I originally made the comment against clipping if you are showing is the judge should be looking for a harsh coat covering the inner coat and when you clip both coats are the same length. Even at that I have seen many clipped for the show ring and some of them win which I question. But it does nothing to harm the coat and within a couple of months the coat will be back in its normal condition. And in the meantime the dog has enjoyed the coolness allowed by the clipping.

To clip or not to clip is your personal preference but it does nothing that harms the coat.

Ezzy

[Ruffshooter]

If you like your dog and it hunts well and you are not worried about showing, CLIP HER. Don't worry about what these people that have the wire hair type dogs say. It is just hair. Your dog will feel liberated. Next Get the dog in shape. Get her accustomed to hunting in all conditions which means you run her in all conditions.

At the 04 NAVHDA VC event in Missouri we ran with heavy coated large Pudel Pointer. It was 84 degrees and the field hunt was near 1 1/2 hours. That dog was not bothered by the heat and was fresh as a daisy at the end. It was in shape and conditioned.

[griffgirl]

I am amazed at the people who are saying don't clip a wirehaired dog. Clipping does nothing to a wirehair different than any other coat. Why I originally made the comment against clipping if you are showing is the judge should be looking for a harsh coat covering the inner coat and when you clip both coats are the same length. Even at that I have seen many clipped for the show ring and some of them win which I question. But it does nothing to harm the coat and within a couple of months the coat will be back in its normal condition. And in the meantime the dog has enjoyed the coolness allowed by the clipping.

To clip or not to clip is your personal preference but it does nothing that harms the coat.

Ezzy

Ezzy, OMG.....Clipping makes a dogs coat soft and ruins the texture.It takes away the structure of the wire hair.Particulary when you cut below the undercoat.If cut,the base stays in the follicle so a new WIRE TIPPED hair does not grow.You see the base of wire haired dogs is soft and thats why it so easy to PULL/STRIP the dog.
Each wire hair has a wire point,then is semi hollow down to the undercoat.So if you cut the coat of a wire haired dog all you are doing is leaving the soft coat and you dont have any new wire hairs growing in its place.Thats why I use a Mars Comb to get out all the dead undercoat so new wire hair grows.There now you can have a personal preference to cut or not to cut.....DONT CLIP....

[wems2371]

griffgirl--Are you saying clipping does permanent damage to the coat and it will never grow back correctly? Just want to be sure for future reference. Quickly googled the topic and came up with a groomer's site detailing different breeds, and below is a brief excerpt from the griffon guide to grooming. Denise

The difference in grooming techniques between dogs being groomed for the breed ring, versus those who are strictly hunters or pets, is minimal. For instance, pet owners may choose to use clippers for the top of the head, instead of hand stripping. Be advised, though, that using clippers on a wire coat will make the hair that grows back in feel much fuzzier. NEVER shave a Griffon's body coat using clippers.

[griffgirl]

It will grow back but it takes awhile.If one continues to clip a wire haired dog you will have a very soft coat with no wire hair and yes ruin the dogs coat.

[ezzy333]

After clipping if you brush the dog and comb it the wirehair will come back. You just need to get the hair out that was clipped. Grif girl is right when she says the hair will stay soft until the clipped wirehair is shed and new hair is allowed to grow. We always help that along with vigorous brushing or even using the stripping knife to pull some of the hair. But clipping does no damage to the coat but just makes it softer and almost fuzzy till the old hair is removed.

Ezzy

[griffgirl]

After clipping if you brush the dog and comb it the wirehair will come back. You just need to get the hair out that was clipped. Grif girl is right when she says the hair will stay soft until the clipped wirehair is shed and new hair is allowed to grow. We always help that along with vigorous brushing or even using the stripping knife to pull some of the hair. But clipping does no damage to the coat but just makes it softer and almost fuzzy till the old hair is removed.

Ezzy

IT MAKES THE WIRE HAIRED DOGS COAT GO SOFT.That is the damage.Its suppose to be wire hair not a fuzzy dog.

[ezzy333]

Grifgirl,

I believe this thread was about a dog getting too hot to hunt so he was looking for another dog. My post just said to clip the dog you have and I will repeat that if necessary. I understand what happens to the coat temporarily but that isn't real important when your dog is overheating. And the good thing is it is temporary. You can speed up the return to a good wire coat with some vigorous brushing or light stripping. But if you are concerned about your dog then I think cosmetics is not of the upmost importance and surely you would agree since the coat will grow backwith time and grooming.

[griffgirl]

Grifgirl,

I believe this thread was about a dog getting too hot to hunt so he was looking for another dog. My post just said to clip the dog you have and I will repeat that if necessary. I understand what happens to the coat temporarily but that isn't real important when your dog is overheating. And the good thing is it is temporary. You can speed up the return to a good wire coat with some vigorous brushing or light stripping. But if you are concerned about your dog then I think cosmetics is not of the upmost importance and surely you would agree since the coat will grow backwith time and grooming.

OK.....your right.Thats what you like to hear :roll:

[ezzy333]

Grifgirl,

OK I'm wrong!!! Let the dog die in the heat but with a nice hard coat. Thats what you wanted to hear?

Ezzy

[Windyhills]

Ezzy, what I have heard is similar to Griffgirls concerns. I've heard it more from wirehair people but have assumed the same thing applies to griffs.

The wire coat is deemed necessary for several reasons:

- for protection against skin damage while hunting;

- it helps deter sticky seeds;

- it helps insulate;

- it helps repel water.

The soft coat collects sticky seeds, doesn't protect the dog as well, doesn't insulate them well at all, and doesn't repel water.

The last two are the things that really seem to bother people. Up here our water often turns hard before the seasons are over--waterfowl, grouse, pheasant, you name it. It's cold. GWP's and Griffs--those with good coats at least--have an advantage in those situations. Cutting or clipping the coat in a manner that eliminates the desired harsh coat is a major sin for the folks I've talked to. Doesn't sound like they think the wiry layer comes back in as well or as quickly as needed once it is cut or clipped.