Difference in Brittany Spaniels and French Brittanys?

[Wagonmaster]

K.K.-

You were the fella that posted this:

"Several decades ago, the French Brittany was brought to this country where the breed was "Americanized" to create the orange and white, longer-legged, big-running, field-trial-type dog known today as the American Brittany," says Bruce Mooney. "As kids growing up in Minnesota, my brother and I had and hunted with this line of gun dog. And, though we loved our American Brits, we were often frustrated by their tendencies to be naturally wide ranging. Many times they would have no contact with us when hunting ruffed grouse in the Northwood's brambles of Minnesota or the cattail sloughs of South Dakota," Mooney recalls.

"Ten years ago we discovered French Brittanys, saw them as gun dogs more inclined to hunt up close and to be more cooperative. The more we hunted with the French version of the Brittanys, the more we liked them. And well, the rest is history. We now have a dozen of these dogs in our kennel where we breed and train them for the 'on-foot' gamebird hunter," Mooney says."

Now, that does not remotely describe the "Americanized" Britts that I have seen. Nor the French one's. But it is a good example of the "comparative advertising" that we see here in the US from purveyors of the Euro breeds.

We are pretty easy to get along with here. A good dog is a good dog is a good dog and I have had the pleasure of hunting with pretty much most of them. I don't care what the coat color is or where the dog came from, I just admire good dog work and so do most of us.

So maybe you could spread the word around over on the other side of the pond. If'n y'all think that you are going to be able to sell dogs here by knockin' the American versions, that started decades ago, I heard it in the 60's, but those days are over. We are on to it now.

If you want to talk about what you like, fine, we are happy for you that you like it. If you want to knock the other fella's dog, its not appreciated, and it works both ways.

Enough said.

[K.K.]

K.K.-

You were the fella that posted this:

"Several decades ago, the French Brittany was brought to this country where the breed was "Americanized" to create the orange and white, longer-legged, big-running, field-trial-type dog known today as the American Brittany," says Bruce Mooney. "As kids growing up in Minnesota, my brother and I had and hunted with this line of gun dog. And, though we loved our American Brits, we were often frustrated by their tendencies to be naturally wide ranging. Many times they would have no contact with us when hunting ruffed grouse in the Northwood's brambles of Minnesota or the cattail sloughs of South Dakota," Mooney recalls.

"Ten years ago we discovered French Brittanys, saw them as gun dogs more inclined to hunt up close and to be more cooperative. The more we hunted with the French version of the Brittanys, the more we liked them. And well, the rest is history. We now have a dozen of these dogs in our kennel where we breed and train them for the 'on-foot' gamebird hunter," Mooney says."

Now, that does not remotely describe the "Americanized" Britts that I have seen. Nor the French one's. But it is a good example of the "comparative advertising" that we see here in the US from purveyors of the Euro breeds.

We are pretty easy to get along with here. A good dog is a good dog is a good dog and I have had the pleasure of hunting with pretty much most of them. I don't care what the coat color is or where the dog came from, I just admire good dog work and so do most of us.

So maybe you could spread the word around over on the other side of the pond. If'n y'all think that you are going to be able to sell dogs here by knockin' the American versions, that started decades ago, I heard it in the 60's, but those days are over. We are on to it now.

If you want to talk about what you like, fine, we are happy for you that you like it. If you want to knock the other fella's dog, its not appreciated, and it works both ways.

Enough said.

That my friend is an article from Gun Dog. A link was posted for it. I didn't write it............................

[kninebirddog]

Brittany Spaniel Breed.

1907 - 2007 Click HERE for some history film of the 1946 Rennes, France Dog Show taken by one of the most relevant importers of the Brittany breed to America...Alan Stuyvesant. Included are some clips of Mr. Juan Pugibert the man who imported the first Brittanys to North America in the 1920's via Mexico and his Casa Blanca Kennels.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nACmdRqA0u4

this is some film footage of brittanys back in the 30's and 40's amazing what they looked like back then...many look like what we have today

[ezzy333]

I think it is real interesting that you never saw a black Brittany in France back in the 40, 50, or 60's. And you saw very few liver dogs. Much the same as we see here with our Brits. And you didn't see the dark skinned dogs or the little wooly dogs or the smooth coated ones either. The Brits in those days look very much like our dogs and very much like the orange and white pink skinned French Brits of today. It is the odd colors that seem to be connected with the different type dogs of today.

It always amazes me about people talking about people in this country crossbreeding when in actuallity I think you will find a great deal more of it in France and the UK. And yet, we are led to believe that the European dogs are so pure and we need to go back to what they are producing. Someone tell me the rationnal of that thinking no matter what breed you are talking about.

I think in each of the continental breeds there is the contraversy as to our American bred dogs being so bad they can't qualify to be called the same breed as the European dogs. And if the truth was known changes have been much more prevalent in their dogs than ours it seems. So maybe they have a point and we shouldn't be contaminating our breeding by crossing back on European dogs of questionable ancestry.

Ezzy

[Rick Hall]

Wow, this thread really has digressed into a slam on French Brittanys and the European breeding community as a whole.

KK - Believe it's been you parroting unsubstantiated trash talk since the first page of the thread, we've just demonstrated that the records and facts on the ground suggest a different story. Which is no reason you shouldn't enjoy the heck out of that new FB pup!

kninebirddog - Thanks for sharing that video. If not for the title and old-timey clothes, you'd of thought those leggy ol' French boogers were nasty modern American dogs.

[K.K.]

Wow, this thread really has digressed into a slam on French Brittanys and the European breeding community as a whole.

KK - Believe it's been you parroting unsubstantiated trash talk since the first page of the thread, we've just demonstrated that the records and facts on the ground suggest a different story. Which is no reason you shouldn't enjoy the heck out of that new FB pup!

kninebirddog - Thanks for sharing that video. If not for the title and old-timey clothes, you'd of thought those leggy ol' French boogers were nasty modern American dogs.

[ohmymy111]

KK where are ou getting your puppy from?

[K.K.]

KK where are ou getting your puppy from?

Pond View Kennels, Salisbury, NC Dennis Hartsell

Sire-Coby Du Hameau De Sorny- Import
Dam- Urba De La Montagne Des Hardrets- Import

[EWSIV]

Is 'Import" a title?

[K.K.]

Is 'Import" a title?

No, I was just letting ohmymy111 know they were imports in case he wasn't familiar with the kennel names.

[GL]

Now that we have all of this settled

I did find the discussion very interesting and somewhat informative.

I'm also a novice about Britts and wonder about all the different color designations and coat types.

Could someone please describe my girl the way she would be described as per the AKC standards, Ie; White/Orange, Orange/White, Ticked, smooth coat, wooly coat.

I did flip her over and the label says "Made in America"







Thank you

Gary

[kninebirddog]

Orange and white

Where's the label

[ezzy333]

White and orange
. The color is listed in order of predominance. She looks basically white with nice reddish orange spots on her back. We don't list the freckles but its nice to see them on the nose and front legs.

Ezzy

[GL]

Thanks Knine!

EZZY mentioned "Little Wooly dogs & Smooth Coated ones" and I'm not sure I have seen any I would describe this way.

I also had it in my head that the color listing order should be the one that is most prominent goes first as in more orange then white or more white then orange and I have seen Britts that clearly fall into each of those schemes. Goldy is probably closer to a 50/50 mix but one of her littermates was almost all white from the shoulders back and another displayed a great deal more orange over it's entire body. One of her brothers is a very dark liver/white with a much curlier coat around his head and looked a bit out of place.

Gary

[ezzy333]

GL,

EZZY mentioned "Little Wooly dogs & Smooth Coated ones" and I'm not sure I have seen any I would describe this way.

I made note of those in the French dogs of today, and not our Brittanys.

The rest of your post is accurate also as to the rule for listing color.

The liver dogs that came over from France included two distinct types of coats. One was pretty much blanketed and fairly smooth and the other was spotted and curly. Those have been moderated some over time but you still see the difference in most liver colored dogs.

Ezzy

[GL]

Is it fairly comon to see a couple Liver dogs in a litter that is mostly orange and white?

I never saw the stud but when I got there for Goldy the Dam was present with 3 of the puppies. I was told the stud was orange and white like the dam yet two of the puppies were liver white and had a different texture on their ears, curlier.

It just stuck me to be a bit strange and almost caused me to not buy Goldy. She had a different plan and made it clear she wanted to come home with us when she crawled into my lap and promptly fell fast asleep.

Thanks

Gary

[ezzy333]

Two orange and white dogs can not produce a liver colored pup. Liver is a dominate color and if a dog is carrying the liver gene it will be liver. Livers can have orange but orange can not produce liver.

Ezzy

[GL]

Now that is interesting Ezzy!

I only know what I was told and don't know of a way to find out what color the stud dog really was. I know the dam was orange and white but the stud, Mt. Views Duke of Hazzard, was said to be orange and white also.

There were two liver pups in the litter and the rest were O&W!

How does one find a picture or color listing of the stud dog?

Gary

[Karen]

Mt View's Duke of Hazzard (SR14768904) is recorded as Liver/White by the AKC.

If you go to the AKC Website, set up an account and log in, then go to Store/Reports/Points and Awards and search for this dog, it'll tell you he's L/W male, born Feb-26-04

[GL]

Thank you Karen. Thats her Daddy and I don't know why the woman would say he was O&W unless it is possible she never saw him durring the breeding.

He is supposedly owned by Buck's Brittanys and only about 40 miles from me in Pine Bush, NY. I sent a few emails asking for a pic of Duke and he has never responded to me. The Dam is over 200 miles from me in central Pa.

Gary