Snakes
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redlevel
Snakes
The weather is getting hot here. Time to start worrying about the bellboys. Have any of you tried to "snakeproof" your dawg? Does it work? In the past I didn't worry about it too much. If they got bit, they just got bit. I never had one bit. But, in the past I didn't have to pay for a good birddowg.
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boykinhntr
I just did some quick online searching and here is an atricle I found by Adele Neupert, Vermillion Vizlsas, Layfayette, Louisiana on teaching your dog to avoid snakes:
If you are contemplating hunting or training in Texas it is advisable to desnake your dog. We were motivated because our dog, Jackson was bitten on his chin by a water moccasin and was hospitalized because of the severe swelling in his neck. He survived to hunt again and we had Jackson and Ike desnaked a few months later. We have not encountered any more poisonous snakes while hunting or training. The dogs do jump back when they encounter a stick that looks like a snake!
Desnaking involves avoidance training by sight, smell and sound and should be done by a professional. The Gulf Coast German Shorthaired Pointer Club puts on a desnaking clinic each year, usually in August. It is well worth your time and the money to protect your dog's health and maybe their life.
The snakes are defanged rattle snakes. The snakes should be defanged and not just milked to remove the venom as some venom may remain after milking.
An electronic collar is placed on the dog. The snake handler controlls the electric stimulator. Timing of the stimulation is critical to the avoidance training. The stimulation must occur as the dog is going for the snake and the snake is allowed to strike at the dog.
The dog is lead near the first snake by the dog handler with the owner moving to the opposite side of the snake. This snake has had it's rattle taped so the dog can only see and smell it. When the dog sees the snake and moves towards it, the dog is shocked. The dog is moved towards the second snake, which is allowed to rattle. The owner is opposite the dog with the snake in between. The owner calls the dog. If the dog moves too close to the snake it is again shocked.
Proofing is the final step and is done by letting the owner take the dog close to the snake. When the dog avoids the snake it has learned the lesson. Usually the dog makes a wide path away from the snake by this time. A refresher can be done each year as a way to check to make sure the dog remembers the lesson.
Just in case all this talk of snakes in the field scares you, here is a story that may make you think twice about taking your dog to dog shows. I was telling a friend that Ike and I almost stepped on a water moccasin at my parent's camp outside New Orleans. He told me that while he was walking his Akita at a dog show in Biloxi, Mississippi, his dog started barking at the bushes along the Coliseum parking lot. When he checked, there was a pigmy rattler under the bush. So even dog shows can be dangerous!
Preventing accidents is always the best. In case of accidents we carry a first aid kit with us in the field. The kit contains Band-Aids, gauze, antibiotic cream, scissors, tweezers, antiseptic, eye flush, benadryl, epinephrine and a syringe and needle. We also carry snake antivenom in the ice chest. It must be administered IV but many vets do not carry it so we have it just in case. We also use boots on our dogs in west Texas because of the cactus. At noon and again at the end of the day we check eyes and flush out any seeds with eye wash. We also check paws for any cuts or thorns. Our first hunting season in Texas the dogs got cactus thorns in their faces and shoulders when hunting those elusive blue quail which are famous for running through the cactus thickets! Now the dogs know to avoid the cactus.
If you are contemplating hunting or training in Texas it is advisable to desnake your dog. We were motivated because our dog, Jackson was bitten on his chin by a water moccasin and was hospitalized because of the severe swelling in his neck. He survived to hunt again and we had Jackson and Ike desnaked a few months later. We have not encountered any more poisonous snakes while hunting or training. The dogs do jump back when they encounter a stick that looks like a snake!
Desnaking involves avoidance training by sight, smell and sound and should be done by a professional. The Gulf Coast German Shorthaired Pointer Club puts on a desnaking clinic each year, usually in August. It is well worth your time and the money to protect your dog's health and maybe their life.
The snakes are defanged rattle snakes. The snakes should be defanged and not just milked to remove the venom as some venom may remain after milking.
An electronic collar is placed on the dog. The snake handler controlls the electric stimulator. Timing of the stimulation is critical to the avoidance training. The stimulation must occur as the dog is going for the snake and the snake is allowed to strike at the dog.
The dog is lead near the first snake by the dog handler with the owner moving to the opposite side of the snake. This snake has had it's rattle taped so the dog can only see and smell it. When the dog sees the snake and moves towards it, the dog is shocked. The dog is moved towards the second snake, which is allowed to rattle. The owner is opposite the dog with the snake in between. The owner calls the dog. If the dog moves too close to the snake it is again shocked.
Proofing is the final step and is done by letting the owner take the dog close to the snake. When the dog avoids the snake it has learned the lesson. Usually the dog makes a wide path away from the snake by this time. A refresher can be done each year as a way to check to make sure the dog remembers the lesson.
Just in case all this talk of snakes in the field scares you, here is a story that may make you think twice about taking your dog to dog shows. I was telling a friend that Ike and I almost stepped on a water moccasin at my parent's camp outside New Orleans. He told me that while he was walking his Akita at a dog show in Biloxi, Mississippi, his dog started barking at the bushes along the Coliseum parking lot. When he checked, there was a pigmy rattler under the bush. So even dog shows can be dangerous!
Preventing accidents is always the best. In case of accidents we carry a first aid kit with us in the field. The kit contains Band-Aids, gauze, antibiotic cream, scissors, tweezers, antiseptic, eye flush, benadryl, epinephrine and a syringe and needle. We also carry snake antivenom in the ice chest. It must be administered IV but many vets do not carry it so we have it just in case. We also use boots on our dogs in west Texas because of the cactus. At noon and again at the end of the day we check eyes and flush out any seeds with eye wash. We also check paws for any cuts or thorns. Our first hunting season in Texas the dogs got cactus thorns in their faces and shoulders when hunting those elusive blue quail which are famous for running through the cactus thickets! Now the dogs know to avoid the cactus.
Here is another article I found while doing a quick google.
How To Treat Your Dogs Snake Bite
By: Backwoods McKinsey
McKinsey lives in Florida, where there are many poisonous snakes
but the biggest threat being the water moccasin.
EDITORS NOTE: There is a foot infection that is fairly common in
dogs that may also closely resemble a snake bite, so if this advice
doesn't work for you, then it may be another problem.
I know this article is a little strange to be found within a magazine that deals primarily with Internet related topics, but this information could save your dogs life. I have personally treated two different snake bites.
Disclaimer
First off neither I nor anyone here is a veterinarian or has any formal training in
this field. This information is for those who are in remote areas who cannot
get to an animal hospital or cannot afford to or for what ever reason can't get to
the animal hospital. I will not be responsible if you use this information and suffer
any damages. In no way should this information be used for a human snake
bite treatment.
This information may be worthless for encounters with coral snakes or any other
snake which contains a neurotoxin. If your dog has been bitten by a Pygmy rattler
then chances are if you follow these directions then your dog should be just fine.
(Unless your dog is small - under 12 pounds.)
Myths and Folk Lore
Forget any fairy tales you may have heard about snake bites, for they are all
hogwash.
Never:
X Try to lacerate the bite
X Try to suck out/remove the poison
X Tourniquet the bite
X Use any sort of electric shock
X Wrap tobacco or any other leaf on the bite
X Wrap chicken or any other meat on the bite
X Bites from poisonous snakes are always fatal.
Snake Bite Facts
Only 25% of snake bites actually inject venom on the first strike.
Out of the remaining percentage only 15-20% of the venom is actually injected.
Out of the 15,000 bites annually that occur only 3% are actually fatal.
When treated with antibiotics only 1% of cases are fatal.
Snake bites are painful, and you should try and keep your pet calm.
There are 2500 types of snakes with only 200 of which are poisonous.
The severity of the bite depends on many factors:
How agitated the snake was, climate/weather, temperature, age and size of the snake,
weight of the snake, whether of not the snake was in defensive posture, the
venom capacity of the snake and of course the type of snake.
Antidote
Anti-venoms are not widely used, for one reason they only have a 18 month shelf life,
also humans are first priority on the list, so obtaining it may be difficult. It is also
expensive for he hospital to stock. The anti-venom costs around $100 a vial and
a typical dosage for a dog is two vials. Additionally there is a 10% chance that
your pet could have an allergic reaction to the anti-venom which could be fatal.
What To Do
DO NOT give your dog ANY pain killers, do *not* apply any benzocaine, lanacaine,
hydrocortisone, steroid creams or anything else that might interfere with the proper treatment.
Always tell the veterinarian what you have done to the dog exactly as not to overdose your dog!
1. If possible identify the bite, if it appears triangular then it is likely poisonous;
however since you are not likely a herpetologist then assume that it is poisonous.
Try and keep the animal still and the bite below the heart.
NOTE: Because of the unique agents in the snakes venom, ice packs will keep the animals
natural mechanisms from working as well. So DO NOT use them.
2. Check your dogs breathing and check for signs of shock. Some snakes/venoms
cause severe shock and can quickly spread and become fatal. If your dog has quit
breathing, use assisted breathing techniques (CPR minus the hear massage.)
3. If the bite wound is dirty from mud or dirt, wash with soap and water.
Apply a compression bandage DO NOT cut off the circulation to the bite.
It should be just tight enough to slow/stop the spreading of the venom.
If no bandages are available forge a makeshift one out of a long strip of cloth.
Keep the animal from walking around or getting too upset.
NOTE: If you live in an area with scorpions and believe it not to be a snake bite,
but rather a sting- follow step four ONLY.
4. Obtain some benadryl, and YES you can use the generic found at most super market
chains. If your dog is a small dog only use 10mg if your dog is larger use 25mg.
If the medicine doesn't include Diphenhydramine then it isn't as good as benadryl!
This will sedate your dog and they will likely want to sleep, which after you
follow all steps is perfectly fine, just make sure they don't stop breathing.
NOTE: If you have identified the snake to be non-poisonous, make sure you get
your dog inoculated against tetanus.
5. Administer an antibiotic, this part is particularly risky as far as dosage is concerned,
you can give them Penicillin or Amoxicillin. This is extremely important as swelling will
NOT reduce without an antibiotic. That is all the steps you can really take.
In Conclusion
From here out it is a waiting game, the first eight hours being the most critical.
Remember to stay calm yourself, as if you can make it to the animal hospital
you should not endanger yourself, your sick passenger and other drivers on
the road. Remember most police won't consider your sick animal a necessary
emergency to do 100MPH.
It's been my experience that it runs around $118 for a vet bill, to treat a snake bite
and $300-400 for treatment with an anti-venom. But if you love your pet this will
be a bargain to keep them around.
How To Treat Your Dogs Snake Bite
By: Backwoods McKinsey
McKinsey lives in Florida, where there are many poisonous snakes
but the biggest threat being the water moccasin.
EDITORS NOTE: There is a foot infection that is fairly common in
dogs that may also closely resemble a snake bite, so if this advice
doesn't work for you, then it may be another problem.
I know this article is a little strange to be found within a magazine that deals primarily with Internet related topics, but this information could save your dogs life. I have personally treated two different snake bites.
Disclaimer
First off neither I nor anyone here is a veterinarian or has any formal training in
this field. This information is for those who are in remote areas who cannot
get to an animal hospital or cannot afford to or for what ever reason can't get to
the animal hospital. I will not be responsible if you use this information and suffer
any damages. In no way should this information be used for a human snake
bite treatment.
This information may be worthless for encounters with coral snakes or any other
snake which contains a neurotoxin. If your dog has been bitten by a Pygmy rattler
then chances are if you follow these directions then your dog should be just fine.
(Unless your dog is small - under 12 pounds.)
Myths and Folk Lore
Forget any fairy tales you may have heard about snake bites, for they are all
hogwash.
Never:
X Try to lacerate the bite
X Try to suck out/remove the poison
X Tourniquet the bite
X Use any sort of electric shock
X Wrap tobacco or any other leaf on the bite
X Wrap chicken or any other meat on the bite
X Bites from poisonous snakes are always fatal.
Snake Bite Facts
Only 25% of snake bites actually inject venom on the first strike.
Out of the remaining percentage only 15-20% of the venom is actually injected.
Out of the 15,000 bites annually that occur only 3% are actually fatal.
When treated with antibiotics only 1% of cases are fatal.
Snake bites are painful, and you should try and keep your pet calm.
There are 2500 types of snakes with only 200 of which are poisonous.
The severity of the bite depends on many factors:
How agitated the snake was, climate/weather, temperature, age and size of the snake,
weight of the snake, whether of not the snake was in defensive posture, the
venom capacity of the snake and of course the type of snake.
Antidote
Anti-venoms are not widely used, for one reason they only have a 18 month shelf life,
also humans are first priority on the list, so obtaining it may be difficult. It is also
expensive for he hospital to stock. The anti-venom costs around $100 a vial and
a typical dosage for a dog is two vials. Additionally there is a 10% chance that
your pet could have an allergic reaction to the anti-venom which could be fatal.
What To Do
DO NOT give your dog ANY pain killers, do *not* apply any benzocaine, lanacaine,
hydrocortisone, steroid creams or anything else that might interfere with the proper treatment.
Always tell the veterinarian what you have done to the dog exactly as not to overdose your dog!
1. If possible identify the bite, if it appears triangular then it is likely poisonous;
however since you are not likely a herpetologist then assume that it is poisonous.
Try and keep the animal still and the bite below the heart.
NOTE: Because of the unique agents in the snakes venom, ice packs will keep the animals
natural mechanisms from working as well. So DO NOT use them.
2. Check your dogs breathing and check for signs of shock. Some snakes/venoms
cause severe shock and can quickly spread and become fatal. If your dog has quit
breathing, use assisted breathing techniques (CPR minus the hear massage.)
3. If the bite wound is dirty from mud or dirt, wash with soap and water.
Apply a compression bandage DO NOT cut off the circulation to the bite.
It should be just tight enough to slow/stop the spreading of the venom.
If no bandages are available forge a makeshift one out of a long strip of cloth.
Keep the animal from walking around or getting too upset.
NOTE: If you live in an area with scorpions and believe it not to be a snake bite,
but rather a sting- follow step four ONLY.
4. Obtain some benadryl, and YES you can use the generic found at most super market
chains. If your dog is a small dog only use 10mg if your dog is larger use 25mg.
If the medicine doesn't include Diphenhydramine then it isn't as good as benadryl!
This will sedate your dog and they will likely want to sleep, which after you
follow all steps is perfectly fine, just make sure they don't stop breathing.
NOTE: If you have identified the snake to be non-poisonous, make sure you get
your dog inoculated against tetanus.
5. Administer an antibiotic, this part is particularly risky as far as dosage is concerned,
you can give them Penicillin or Amoxicillin. This is extremely important as swelling will
NOT reduce without an antibiotic. That is all the steps you can really take.
In Conclusion
From here out it is a waiting game, the first eight hours being the most critical.
Remember to stay calm yourself, as if you can make it to the animal hospital
you should not endanger yourself, your sick passenger and other drivers on
the road. Remember most police won't consider your sick animal a necessary
emergency to do 100MPH.
It's been my experience that it runs around $118 for a vet bill, to treat a snake bite
and $300-400 for treatment with an anti-venom. But if you love your pet this will
be a bargain to keep them around.
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WildRose
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1454
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Outfitter/Guide Gsp Breeder/Trainer
We unfortunately deal with a whole lot of Snakebites. Water moccasin, cottonmouth, and copperhead bites are usually more of a nuisance than a life or death emergency and the antibiotics and benadryl are fine for them. Their venoms mainly have an irritant effect with little or no tissue damage and mild if any neurological problems.
Rattlesnakes are a whole different can of worms. All of them are proteolytic venoms and the Mojave green rattler also has a neurotoxin in theirs. These bites will almost always have some degree of envenomation involved to varying degrees. Rattlesnake bites MUST be tended by a vet unless you really know what you are doing and do so under a veterinarian's guidance or you stand a strong risk of your dog dying from even a "minor" bite due to infection.
I've seen a single bite result in tissue death for as much as six to ten inches or more surrounding the bite. There will be a slow dying and rotting away of tissue and huge problems from infection if not carefully managed.
Rattlesnake’s venom also has systemic effects that vary to a great degree depending on the bite site and how much if any venom is spread through the blood.
If at all possible and you witness a bite you should kill the snake and carefully put it in a safe container and take it with you to the vet (or if it's a human bitten to the ER).
Never assume a rattlesnake bite is minor based on observations within the first hour or so, the effects can be creeping and slow and suddenly appear dramatically worse in a few hours due to the breakdown of tissue.
Get the dog calm, if possible ice the wound, DO NOT APPLY A TOURNEQUET, and get them to the vet ASAP.
Desnaking is an incredibly smart thing to do if you hunt in the lower half of the US where often we hunt a great deal in temperatures where snakes can remain active off and on throughout the fall and winter. It's a relatively simple procedure and we do it on thirty to a hundred dogs a year right here.
Most breed organizations/clubs will either offer these clinics at a reasonable price or else can recommend you a good trainer who can.
Best to all> CR
Rattlesnakes are a whole different can of worms. All of them are proteolytic venoms and the Mojave green rattler also has a neurotoxin in theirs. These bites will almost always have some degree of envenomation involved to varying degrees. Rattlesnake bites MUST be tended by a vet unless you really know what you are doing and do so under a veterinarian's guidance or you stand a strong risk of your dog dying from even a "minor" bite due to infection.
I've seen a single bite result in tissue death for as much as six to ten inches or more surrounding the bite. There will be a slow dying and rotting away of tissue and huge problems from infection if not carefully managed.
Rattlesnake’s venom also has systemic effects that vary to a great degree depending on the bite site and how much if any venom is spread through the blood.
If at all possible and you witness a bite you should kill the snake and carefully put it in a safe container and take it with you to the vet (or if it's a human bitten to the ER).
Never assume a rattlesnake bite is minor based on observations within the first hour or so, the effects can be creeping and slow and suddenly appear dramatically worse in a few hours due to the breakdown of tissue.
Get the dog calm, if possible ice the wound, DO NOT APPLY A TOURNEQUET, and get them to the vet ASAP.
Desnaking is an incredibly smart thing to do if you hunt in the lower half of the US where often we hunt a great deal in temperatures where snakes can remain active off and on throughout the fall and winter. It's a relatively simple procedure and we do it on thirty to a hundred dogs a year right here.
Most breed organizations/clubs will either offer these clinics at a reasonable price or else can recommend you a good trainer who can.
Best to all> CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people
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sochuck
I grew up in and around Columbus and LaGrange Ga. Being an Army brat I never got to see my Dad too much, he was either working or overseas, anyways, the one thing we did do together was hunt. We had a few Coon dogs, mostly black & tans and blueticks. Our dogs were those that made great legends often whoopin up on those "paper dogs". Sorry i digress, we had a old B&T named Sally. She was from Kentucky and was the best of the best, she could never be fooled by opossums and never chased deers, but she had a strong affections for diamond backs and copperheads. i can't remember how many times we be sitting on the back of a tailgate and she walk up with a dead rattler. Being hilljacks we never did much for snakebites on our dogs, mostly keep the wound clean and the dog quiet and well watered. we never lost any to snakebite, but the poor dogs were a terrible to look at for a couple of weeks. Dogs have a bit of natutral resistant to bites. Sorry for the rambling to make a point!
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redlevel
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barnone88
I paid a pro to snake proof two GSP and one DD. I was looking at a job in Texas and had heard the rattle snakes where bad there. The snake proofing was done with rattle snakes. It seemed to work that day.
My DD will and has killed every snake he has come accross sence then. He has not been around rattle snakes though. The GSP avoid all snakes, including the ones the DD is running around with.
My DD will and has killed every snake he has come accross sence then. He has not been around rattle snakes though. The GSP avoid all snakes, including the ones the DD is running around with.
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Wireviz_lady
snake training
I just heard on my list that the OK Navhda club provides snake training with great results!
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msparks
Well, I happen to like snakes. Just not mixed with dogs.sochuck wrote:did i mention that i hate snakes?
I had a couple of pet rattlers when I lived in El Paso. Maybe I should get a few more to help trian folks with dogs.
I would imagine a couple of hart hits with the collar when they get near the snake would break the dog pretty fast? I don't know?