Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

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Featherfinder
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Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Featherfinder » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:34 am

Without taking any previous posts off on a tangent, can someone help me see the advantages or even AN advantage of running 2 dogs at once while hunting wild birds? I appreciate that we run 2 or more when there is a time restriction. I've trialed a long time so I understand that aspect or running in braces too. I'm asking what an advantage might be when WILD BIRD hunting over an extended window of time, say 5-15 consecutive days or so?
Now, I concur - it's so nice to see a dog pointing and a dog backing. "Nice" doesn't cut practical. "Nice" weighed against the detractors for running 2 dogs at once is what drives this post.
I look forward to hearing the responses.
Thank you.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Pedro » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:16 am

Sometimes I'll put 4 down. I don't know if it's and advantage or not, but it sure is fun.

95% of the time I have 2 down. The only time I'll have only one dog down is when I need to work that particular dog. To me, killing birds is secondary to running dogs.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by mask » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:18 am

I hunt where there is a lot of country compared to the amount of birds. I hunt all age bred pointers and two dogs cover more country which saves me a lot of walking over steep rocky ground.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by birddogger2 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:06 pm

When hunting for stocked pheasants the day after the stock, I had my best success when running a particular pair of dogs. One tended to range out and the other tended to stay in a little closer. An awful lot of those birds would run at the first sign of danger. The longer dog tended to work fast and hit his birds hard. The shorter dog was a little more careful and tended to point her birds a little farther off.

It was a deadly combination. Many, many times, the bird would become trapped between the two dogs and often presented an easy shot. Occasionally the shorter dog, who worked more deliberately and carefully, would trap one between herself and me, again resulting in an easy chance, even when it flushed wild.

I was fortunate to have that pair of dogs for nearly ten years. Killed a heck of a lot of birds over them.

RayG

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by art hubbard » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:09 pm

x 2 with Pedro..

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by fishvik » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:09 pm

I hunt two most of the time. One hunts the edges and open areas well, the other is a beast in thick stuff.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by setterpoint » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:24 pm

I have two female setters and a male setter I can run the male with either of the girls, but don't like running the girls togather they push each other to hard
there range almost doubles with both on the ground at the same time, the male hunts close and really covers the area thourally so I like that sometimes
he finds a bird the female may miss

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Featherfinder » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:02 am

Interesting.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Featherfinder » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:59 am

OK, let me do this chronologically.
Pedro: You find running 2 or more at a time to be fun and you are more interested in the dogs than killing birds. So, when you are running 2+ dogs at a time and a bird is bumped (even the best dog can make a mistake) how does that affect the other dog(s)? Do you even know which dog may have made the mistake if they are in dense cover or you were momentarily looking the other way? With dogs being the first priority, how do you respond or do you just let the error slide which might be construed as being in conflict with your priorities?
Mask: Two dogs cover more country?!? That I also find interesting. So, if you are say...hunting north-ish to south-ish with two dogs, they typically don't cover the exact same ground which I get but if you drew a line that looked more like a fan, you would determine that one of your dogs MIGHT by-pass a find but the diversion from the fan of a single dog would be at best....marginal. In-other-words, it is unlikely that one dog scoured course that generally was north-east and the other ran south west or south east or.... In summary, "juice is not worth the squeeze". You could hunt one dog north-east and the other north-west while getting a bigger bang for your buck. OR, you are telling me one of your dogs outruns his nose on occasion and the second dog does as well. In conjunction, they two may prove to be more successful. My issue is that I asked a specific question. In-other-words, after 1 hour or 5 hours, BOTH of your dogs are tired. Now, I hope your dogs were VERY successful because you are done for the better part of the day. Further-to-this, I am with Pedro in that I am a bird dog lover first. As such, the number of birds I "kill" is second to the opportunities I provide for my dogs. Therefore, if one of your dogs is pointing, the other is backing or....is somewhere else. If the backing dog is somewhat more consistently the backer, he/she may even learn to trail the other dog!
Birdogger: Ray, I get it. But I might challenge you in this regard. While our memories of days gone by are a bit like the size of the fish we once caught...your closer more methodical dog would naturally stand off of the birds based on her pace - that is logic. That doesn't resonate with the running ditch parrots I've hunted because the methodical dog MIGHT point, relocate, point, relocate, point, relocate until either the bird had enough or it was cornered by habitat or in your example....enclosed by your other dog. VERY low percentages at best, if you were concerned about how your close working dog performed. Were you a "meat hunter"? The faster more-paced dog would give you a better chance of sticking that ditch parrot BUT as you traversed the caverness distance between you and that dog, the same result would be reflected in your percentages of the bird still being there. I am not disputing the results as you reported. If I had a slower more methodical dog it would not be successful for my style of WILD BIRD hunting. If I had one that ran trial range, it would be no more effective on WILD BIRDS, even though the pace would be preferable. getting them to work harmoniously with reasonable frequency is truly something I would have really enjoyed.
Fishvik: I get it. One of your dogs works more open cover while the other works dense cover more effectively. I'm asking what is the advantage of hunting both at once. ???
Setterpoint: So, your female tends to outrun her nose. That might be a genetic component. Running her by herself will tell you what you need to know. Further-more, you might provide her with the opportunity to bloom into the dog she would be without compromising her efforts running braced to your male or the other female. ....just a suggestion. ANY dog can miss a bird(s). I'd give her time-to-shine as well as your other dogs. After all, let's thank God we don't NEED the birds to feed our families.
All I know is that when we run dogs while wild bird hunting for 10+ consecutive days (and being a long way from home), planning which dog runs when and where is a HUGE part of the strategy/their learning curve (opportunities for the dogs being the priority) and subsequently what we define as a successful day afield. NEVER once was it advantageous to run more than one-dog-at-a-time. Actually, I stand corrected. Once on our final day, we had a situation where either of 2 dogs were not recently run. We had about 1 hour total left in our hunt before heading home. Our conscience wouldn't allow us to leave one dog without the final run so, we did a brief run with both dogs before the end of another glorious hunt, rich with fond memories. Actually, we didn't carry guns either for that final hour.
You like running 2+ dogs at once. And that is completely your prerogative.
With all due respect, most of us in this medium are already fully aware of the many salient disadvantages.
Last edited by Featherfinder on Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by cjhills » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:51 am

My only reason for hunting two dogs, would be that I didn't have more available dogs. Dogs that learn to hunt with multiple dogs, hunt on their own and only notice the other dogs when they are on point. If I run a young dog who starts to shadow he will get picked up and hunted alone. They do seem to have some way to keep track of each other and know when the other dog is point. They will honor that point from unbelievable distances. I don't think you get more birds, but the dogs and I have a lot more fun.
FF: this is how I like to hunt and how I want my dogs to hunt. Don't waste your time telling me why I am wrong, like you did with the other people who gave of their time answered your question. It is not about right or wrong.....Cj

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by fishvik » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:00 am

A lot of the country I hunt has both types of ground bordering each other. My brush dog not only hunts the thick stuff but is also a better retriever and very rarely if ever loses a cripple whether its on land or over water. A lot of the pheasant and quail habitat I hunt is along the Snake River. Besides I just like hunting them both.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Pedro » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:09 am

If they bump a bird and they're a green dog, I'll take em back stand em up at first contact and make them think about it, obviously we have more work to do. If they're a broke dog, depending on circumstances, I might get a little more of their attention. I don't need to write about how to steady a dog, lots better than me have already done that.

That being said I've had a couple that would rip a bird just for the fun of it. Can remember several times in an hour stake where I was hoping we didn't find a bird the last 20 minutes. Some people wouldn't put up with that, I did because they were really nice dogs and their ancestry somewhat predicted this behavior.

Honestly, we're all different in our expectations of our dogs and what makes me happy would probably drive others batty. To each his own.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Trekmoor » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:11 am

I preferred to hunt just one dog at a time. I used to take small parties of guns out onto the grouse moors (think hills) and usually started the hunts between 9 .30 a.m. and 10 a.m then finished at about 4 p.m. I also trialed my dogs and I did not want them to think they would have all day to hunt and so they'd better pace themselves. I wanted my dogs to go like stink whenever they were released to hunt. I only ever had 2 or 3 pointing dogs at any one time so I would have tired out all of my dogs at once if I had hunted them all at the same time.

No dog can run at top speed for 4 - 5 hours at a time. I do love seeing two or more dogs hunting at the same time but it just was not practical for me.

Bill T.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Featherfinder » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:52 am

CJ, I am not making this into a right vs wrong or me versus anyone. While you did, I respect your answer which I already addressed much earlier as, "many folk prefer to run more than one dog". I repeat, I respect that completely.
I have enjoyed your prior vociferous offerings and respect your contributions CJ, but surely you know that dogs learn....period. They don't just learn what you want or only the good stuff. In-other-words, running 2 at once can be advantageous but there is a significant inherent risk. It means one of the dogs can also develop an unintended bad habit from the other. This is less likely to happen if you hadn't run 2 at a time.
I once ran a hunt test and the dog I ran did not get a passing score. The other dog did pass. The reason the dog I ran didn't was it didn't find a bird in the designated bird field within the designated time. And the reason for that was I was braced with a "head-trailer". For those that have never heard of this term, it is a dog that is running ahead of it's brace-mate but pays more attention to the direction of said brace-mate than it should finding birds. It's as subtle as a sledge hammer in the crotch but....the judges didn't see it. Every time I directed my dog into a new direction, the other dog would turn too, EVEN THOUGH THE HANDLER TRIED IN VAIN TO REDIRECT HIS DOG. Rather than repeatedly conveying his dog's flaw, he simply shut his mouth. As fate would have it, it found birds doing so, on MY direction or rather, that of my dog. What can I say....I was the handler that day, not the judge.
Again, aside from personal preference and field trials, I am looking for just one advantage. …still waiting, including your post.
Share with me CJ, "Why is it advantageous for one or many of your dogs to verify your dog's find?"
One thing is for sure. You WILL run out of dog(s) very quickly. Consider that I drive 6.5 hours to one destination, 16 hours to a separate destination, 34 hours to another and fly 4 hours to yet another. It wouldn't be very practical to do as you say. Like I said, knowing which dog to run, when and where, is a KEY aspect of hunting wild birds for a number of consecutive days, a long way from home.
I thank God that I can still do this. Am I blessed or what???
Last edited by Featherfinder on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by reba » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:18 pm

Featherfinder,

I can keep it simple for you. Run as many dogs that you can control, under the conditions you are hunting. The problem is when two dogs go on point
at the same time in different directions :lol:

I have many times hunted with 10 guys and many more pointing dogs. This was out across the high desert chasing sage chickens. The dogs could of cared less. If a dog went on point the closest gun walked to the dog.

Right now I am hunting Ruffed Grouse and one GSP works great.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by polmaise » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:28 pm

Featherfinder wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:34 am
Without taking any previous posts off on a tangent, can someone help me see the advantages or even AN advantage of running 2 dogs at once while hunting wild birds? I appreciate that we run 2 or more when there is a time restriction. I've trialed a long time so I understand that aspect or running in braces too. I'm asking what an advantage might be when WILD BIRD hunting over an extended window of time, say 5-15 consecutive days or so?
Now, I concur - it's so nice to see a dog pointing and a dog backing. "Nice" doesn't cut practical. "Nice" weighed against the detractors for running 2 dogs at once is what drives this post.
I look forward to hearing the responses.
Thank you.
One at a time is good fishing ,but it depends on the size of the pond and where the fish are ,If you want to catch as many fish as you can in that pond on that day.
Having Two doing the same as one ,is not so productive.
Handling Two in seperate parts of that pond with the same objective requires a different skill set , for both handler and dog ...I would suggest ?
But , backing up can and does/should would happen ,If they were both covering all the pond/Ground . Looks nice when it happens ,and often glorified in pictorial presence, Hard to get a picture shot with two on point 200 metres apart at the same time :wink:

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by cjhills » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:52 pm

FF:
The hunt test situation is easily resolved. Stop your dog and wait until the other handler chooses a direction and go the other way. I generally tell the other handler "see you at the call backs" and go my way.
The advantage of running multiple dogs on the many thousand acre BLM land is that it is fun. When a dog goes on point you can usually see a it or an honoring dog. When two go on point at the same time, one has to hold until a handler gets there.
I have never felt that running dogs and hunting birds needed to be practical. But I always thought it should be exciting and fun. Following one dog that is 400 yards away is a bit boring. Plus you have to walk a long ways. Letting multiple dogs work both sides and to the front, is much more interesting and exciting. Plus the dogs can cover a lot more ground and you don't have to walk so far. The dogs pace themselves and you don't cover the same ground walking back to change out the dogs...Cj

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by slistoe » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:29 pm

There is not a dog in existence that will find every bird that exists on his/her beat everytime. So the supposition that having a second dog working the same beat on a slightly different angle and path is redundant is a fallacy.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Featherfinder » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:06 am

Well said one and all but the same reason runs through the course of most posts, "You want to." And that too is fine. As I said, there is NOTHING wrong with that. There is something for us all. And for me, I will continue to let each individual dog have their moment/opportunities. I don't need to share the finds in any given hunt. I'd rather lose a bird(s) than run braced only to have one particular dog (either through supremacy or just luck) find most of the birds. I enjoy knowing that each dog down is watched with a judge's eye to ensure they do not compromise their personal best, that they are front-and-center, that they are safe, that this is their uncompromised time to shine. I prefer that if something does go askew in a particular environ/covert I can recall my dog expeditiously. I watch their health/conditioning like a hawk. Some dogs are good for 4 hours - some are good for 1.5 hours. I'm not cutting the younger dog or the endurance dog's hunt short because his brace-mate's health is at risk because I don't get them into this situation in the first place. I manage my dogs so that in a 10+ consecutive days hunt, each dog gets their opportunity to hunt ALL 10+ days (barring unforeseen incidents). I don't have the issue with my personal dogs but a good friend's amazing pointer literally destroys porcupines, skunks, etc. I saw him return with quills in his mouth, in his throat, on his chest, and one leg. There were porcupine meat chunks hanging from some of the quills. I knew it was bad because I could hear his raspy breathing. He came back to us proud as a peacock, turned and went bird hunting WITH A 12 O'CLOCK TAIL. I kid you not! $680, 1 DVM, 1 tech assistant and 3 hours later, most of the quills were out. Don't need my dogs learning that "skill". I had a coyote chase my female setter right to well-within shotgun range before it realized we were even there. That setter was FAST! A slower or simply unlucky dog might have been in big trouble (or the coyote could have made the mistake of tangling with my buddy's pointer :lol: ) ! By-the-way, his pointer is THE most gentle sociable couch potatoe you could meet - loves children and doesn't even notice other dogs - not even edgy males. He's too busy looking for birds.
All this aside, I'm with Slistoe. Having 2+ dogs down does NOT double your success rate but it most assuredly takes out 2+ dogs in one hunt window, for a period of time.
Now, if that's what you enjoy, or as Polmaise mentioned you enjoy seeing a dog backing, NO ONE should ever take that from you. I'm simply thinking of what best serves my/our dogs in this application, first.
P.S. - Many a friendship have been lost running braced.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by bonasa » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:42 pm

Hunting grouse and woodcock in the northeast with pointers, it works better and I prefer to run one dog at a time. It is easier to keep track of one despite modern electronics and make corrections with a young dog or not compromise the rest of the cover. Hitting 10-15 covers in a day can be done with one dog but it is nice to have fresh dogs on the ground. Then again I might be the only birddogger that finds backing unnecessary and not beautiful at all. No dog is perfect, won't find all the birds or stay fully broke for every find of every day . I can tell you this,and to echo fetherfinder's last sentence, I find it incredibly frustrating and annoying to have a friend's dog trail one of mine, cut one of mine off or creep on point from backing to bump the bird. Running each dog alone eliminates dog induced errors and the spotlight is on THEM. I'm not ready to find new friends though despite subpar dog work, so we just run them independently.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by slistoe » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:16 am

2 dogs working independently are always more effective than one. The increase in effectiveness isn’t worth using up all your dog power. Anyone that would lose a friend over a piece of dog work needs to unwind their spring a little - well maybe a lot.


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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by cjhills » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:42 pm

This is exactly my thoughts. Some people take This way to seriously. They are just dogs and it is only hunting. It should be fun......Cj

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by fishvik » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:26 pm

cjhills wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:42 pm
This is exactly my thoughts. Some people take This way to seriously. They are just dogs and it is only hunting. It should be fun......Cj
Exactly

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Featherfinder » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:56 am

I guess the definition of fun varies as much as our preference in hunting styles or hunting breeds.
I'm curious though:
- Does being braced with a friend's dog that steals point define fun for you? Does it seem to you like fun for your dog? I've seen pointing dogs in a trial go for the brace-mate that stole point! Perhaps, you own/owned the dog that stole point and somehow that makes it ok? Fun...not!
- 2 dogs disappear in dense cover. Out flushes a bird then both dogs race to chase....your otherwise/previously steady dog included. Guns are ablaze! Fun...sorry, not for me!
- Your buddy's dog happens to find most all of the birds today while your dog backs reliably. Finally you see your dog nail a find. You also see your buddy's come in and steal point! Now, you start to wonder, "How many times has this happened today?" Fun....not!
- Finally, your dog has a find away from your buddy's point-stealing-S.O.B. and you make a fine shot. You look back to verify a flawless steady performance by your dog, AS YOUR BUDDY'S DOG RETRIEVES YOUR DOG'S BIRD!?! Or worse, both dogs go for the bird then, go for each other or tear the bird in half! Fun...not for me!
- Your dog hunts at a close-to-medium range while your buddy's trialer is out there....somewhere. Your dog never seems to find birds when braced with this dog. Fun...hmmmm????
I guess it's just me but I don't even remotely consider this to be fun. Then again, I do hold my dog's in high esteem and may require more from them than many others. Let me say this - when it all comes together, it is beyond fun! It's more like....bliss for my hunting buddies, me and our dogs.
Once you have tasted it, it's addictive. Dog-work is my priority. Some see the dog as a co-incidental attendee - birds killed are their only measure of success. Then, there is everything in between.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by cjhills » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:40 am

FF:
Your post is the type of post that borders on ridiculous or is trolling.
Of course I would not call running my dogs with a dog that does all those things fun. Just as I would not call hunting with a single dog who disappears over the horizon never to be seen again,a single dog busting birds at 400 yard,that has to be hacked, yelled at, fried with a ecollar or a dog that won't retrieve a shot bird fun. I would not hunt in a worse case scenario either with one or multiple dogs,as I assume you would not. Please do not assume that you are the only one who has a trained dog. Many of us do. The point is it is all about personal preference and training your dogs to hunt how you like to hunt.
I happen to think coming over a hill in the big western grasslands and seeing a dog on point at 200 yards is the most beautiful sight I have seen.
I also so have little interest in trialing, even though I like a big running stylish dog as much as the next guy. IMO to much emphasis is on ground application and not enough on hunting dog skills.
Having a couple more dogs intensely backing makes it that much more beautiful. Knowing they will all hold through the fall and the dog I choose will retrieve the bird means I have accomplished my training goal.
my dogs are not trained in a hunting situation. The birds are only shot if the dogs are steady to WSF. If they screw up we don't get the, they know that.
I find hunting with one dog boring even though you probably get more birds per dog.
You like hunting with one dog. Either way sucks if the dog is not trained. I do think the training should be to bring out the skills nature gave canines and that is pack hunting. Dogs know that. The ones that didn't became lunch. Evolution. Take care. Enjoy your dog. don't worry about mine....Cj
PS. Do you and your hunting buddies hunt over one dog at a time? I guess there would be something good about that. Not sure what.
Last edited by cjhills on Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by mask » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:30 am

There is no hope and the joke is on us. :roll:

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by northwoodshunter » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:39 am

This post came from mine earlier, and I agree with cj and I don’t know if you’ve ran multiple dogs with other people or your own a lot of times, or if you just say that’s what happens. If your dogs are so well trained, and you hold them to such a high standard, why can’t they hunt with another dog effectively? Now in the last 6 years that I’ve been making a trip with family and friends to southwest North Dakota for early pheasant season, there’s always been a pile of dogs. Now these dogs are a mix of pointing and flushing dogs, semi- trained for it, not hardly trained for it at all and then since I’ve had dogs, mine have been worked on birds year round to be ready for season. But the fact that we can run pointing dogs with flushing dogs, without the problem of stealing birds says something about that whole scenario you explained. There’s usually 3-4 labs, one that’s worked a decent amount and 2 that only see birds in hunting scenarios when we go to North Dakota, so they are not trained broke flushing dogs. And the pointing dogs, I have my Setter that’s broke and will have my young gsp, my cousin has an older gsp that is not broke, and before we had our dogs, there was a Setter a english Pointer, 2 labs, and again, none of them fully broke or trained to hunt with the other type of hunting dog(flushing,pointing) and we have NEVER had these problems of dogs stealing point, busting all the birds and so on. My Setter has been there 4 years now, and hasn’t had one bird stole from him. And be that we run almost all the dogs at once, not even just two of them, the handler can choose or not choose to run their own dog, as they wish to. The only problem would be a certain dog of someone else’s has a hard time listening sometimes. You can’t compare a dog of yours that you say handles and handles every bird perfectly and then in the scenario to trash hunting multiple dogs, say that yours is good and the other one busts birds steals point doesn’t listen and so on. That’s comparing apples to oranges. If you want to compare running your trained dog, with running more than one dog, it has to be dogs of the same training level, so in reality it would be dogs hunting and searching separate, backing, pointing and holding steady, and retrieving no problems. So at that point how is it not more effective to have two? Two fully trained dogs to what you say your dogs are trained to, can cover more, and different ground, if one misses a bird, the other one may hit it if they’re hunting near the same path, otherwise for when we do it’s usually the dogs aren’t that close to each other so a lot more ground is covered. With a second or multiple you have a better chance at a retrieve also. Like cj said, when you hunt with a buddy, do you only use one dog at a time? I wouldn’t see the fun in me not being able to run my dog with a buddies because he doesn’t like two on the ground. Not fun to me. And my dogs don’t get burnt out from our 3 day hunt of 3 days all days, and if we see them getting tired we will sit one for a drive here and there as the dogs need it individually. So you can’t use that argument either. I see 2 or more dogs being a lot more efficient and more fun, if you can handle them, or if your with a buddy that can handle their own dog well.

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Re: Running 2 Pointing Dogs at Once

Post by Featherfinder » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:50 am

Northwoods, I've run dogs like most everyone else here has in a variety of situations and venues. We all start somewhere and go through life hopefully, learning things. I've learned there is no advantage to running more than one dog in the specific situation I described.
I appreciate the compliments from both you and CJ but yes, my dogs do in fact make mistakes, albeit rarely. That is in part because of what they are and in part because of me and what I aspire to have in my dogs.
N/W, you like running your dogs with flushers and unbroke pointers. That is where you and I clearly differ but you are not breaking any laws so it's no problem for me. Admittedly, that would be fun for me....to watch.
As for running my dogs braced with other dogs of the same caliber it is possible I guess, but it's not easy around here finding any number of dogs belonging to folk I'd call friend's that have dogs of the same caliber. They typically vary in attributes - some not as good, some better. Beyond that, a dog can have a bad day. If so, it remains something affecting that 1 dog, not the other dog(s) it is running with.
When I "considered myself" an audiophile, I learned my system was only as good at the weakest link. I think if you run your dogs with other unbroke dogs enough, ditto. What a lot of folk do in this case, is redefine what they consider a good performance and...tadda...you don't have to worry about your dog(s) what-so-ever.
Both of my dogs have been run with other dogs (a max of 3 as I recall but my memory isn't what it used to be) on occasions and just for the fun of it - NOT when we trek out for 10+ days far from home but yes....I have done this. I ran trials since the late 1970s so yes, I have run my dogs braced....in a trial as well as hunt clubs, short hunts etc. for MANY years. That's how I deduced where I'm at today.
Both of my dogs back reliably. Perhaps not as reliably as you may have assumed, but they do.

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