Is there such thing as a bad puppy?

[wems2371]

I totally agree with the littermate observation, and each time she has gone at my face I have put her in a hold until she submits. My wife is not comfortable doing this, and my 1.5 year old, although a badass, hasn't quite mastered it yet.
Ben

That's a huge training issue--mixed messages. If you find a method that you make headway with, everyone in the house needs to perform the method for consistency. If they aren't able, like your 1.5 year old rebel , then his guardian needs to be on top of it...or not allow them to mingle until you have a handle on it. Children can exacerbate puppy behavior as well. I remember my dad bringing home a drahthaar pup when I was around 10 and my sister would have been about 6. That pup was full of pee and vinegar and like to jump and nip. If my sister saw the pup coming, she would squeal and fold her arms up kind of protective. She got to a point where I believe she was afraid of the pup at times. That just made the pup want to playfully attack more and solved nothing. Wasn't my sister's problem nor the pups. It was my dad's for not handling the situation properly. She was a mismanaged puppy.

[Brddgmn]

I have kept the Puppy and the Kid completely separate since mid April because I recognized the mixed messages issue. The puppy comes to work with me for the same reason. It does make the puppy ownership far less enjoyable, which is why I think I have gotten more and more discouraged. It may get better, but I'm so worried that if it takes a year, I will be so discouraged about this pup that I just won't want her around anymore. I think she is probably just a bad fit for my situation rather than a bad puppy. I recognized she wanted to dominate the litter when I went to pick her up. That is what she tries to do with the kid. However, I was in a tough bind. I had already paid for the puppy, and all of the other pups were already spoken for. She was "mine," for better or for worse, I thought. I had no idea there could be such strong, immutable personality differences within one litter. The others were definitely different.

Ben

[DogNewbie]

Another idea. Some may criticize this but I think 5.5 months is old enough to handle ecollar correction. Not full blast but just a nic to get her attention every time she nips or tries to jump a dog. Could be a good tool to keep the correction consistent.

[Cajun Casey]

You will never like this dog and your comments indicate you resent the disruption she causes in your life. Get rid of her. Call the breeder and tell her you will put the dog down if she can't take her back.

[stlgsp]

I apologize if I came across that your home is not a good home. Meant to say find her a good home that can deal with a pup like this, don't just dump her at a shelter. It does sound to me that it is the wrong pup for your current situation. Our Vizsla was quite the handful when we brought her home, very energetic, headstrong and wanted to run the house. Everyone needs to be involved in the training, you say your wife isn't comfortable and you have a 1 1/2 year old. She needs to be quickly put her back in her place when needed, my kids were much older than yours so were also able to step in when needed.

[Deuce]

You will never like this dog and your comments indicate you resent the disruption she causes in your life. Get rid of her. Call the breeder and tell her you will put the dog down if she can't take her back.

Bingo - everything you have posted indicates that you don't like the dog and if the breeder would take her, you'd give her back. Now that it's no longer an option it seems you're struggling to give her to someone else. Not trying to hit a nerve, just showing what all your posts are indicating...

[jwnissen]

She has bitten me in the face twice (while playing) and drawn blood on a few occasions. While these were all playful incidences, I have been unable to get her to tone it down, and I don't want her hurting [my son] or making him fearful of dogs

He thinks you're his litter mate. That's where I would have pinned the dog and let him know he can NEVER do that, might need to do it more then one time but he will get it sooner or later.... All corrections need to be swift with no hesitation..

My 2 cent's....

I had a breeder/trainer tell me once that she held a "trouble" puppy down once for 30 minutes, staring it down the whole time. She said it worked, but you have to be careful because in some cases you can do more harm than good. I have no idea what harm it could do. After that she never had another problem. Just thought I would pass on what I have been told. This sounds like a mess, hope it all works out. Good luck

[deke]

i say its about time to give that pup a beating that it will never forget. Pup is rowdy and out of control, beat its a$$. If it tries to fight back, beat it harder. Rinse and repeat. I had a airedale collie mutt growing up that my old man had to beat with a 2x4, but the dog learned very young who was the boss. My dogs were very hard headed dogs, they jumped, bit, and knocked everything off the counter that they could reach. Until they hit six months old, then the gloves came off. Now all i have to do is pick up a shoe and both dogs will make a beeline for their kennels, the young one even throws in a zig-zag because more than once he has caught a shoe to the head.

[ezzy333]

i say its about time to give that pup a beating that it will never forget. Pup is rowdy and out of control, beat its a$$. If it tries to fight back, beat it harder. Rinse and repeat. I had a airedale collie mutt growing up that my old man had to beat with a 2x4, but the dog learned very young who was the boss. My dogs were very hard headed dogs, they jumped, bit, and knocked everything off the counter that they could reach. Until they hit six months old, then the gloves came off. Now all i have to do is pick up a shoe and both dogs will make a beeline for their kennels, the young one even throws in a zig-zag because more than once he has caught a shoe to the head.

Anyone can beat an animal into submission but most have found they would rather train the dog. Last thing I want to see is a dog run for the kennel because I picked up something. I have found it much nicer to just tell them to kennel and see them do it while "smiling".

Ezzy

[Sharon]

You will never like this dog and your comments indicate you resent the disruption she causes in your life. Get rid of her. Call the breeder and tell her you will put the dog down if she can't take her back.

Bingo - everything you have posted indicates that you don't like the dog and if the breeder would take her, you'd give her back. Now that it's no longer an option it seems you're struggling to give her to someone else. Not trying to hit a nerve, just showing what all your posts are indicating...

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I don't see where he's saying he doesn't like the dog; he's saying the dog's behaviour is beyond his experience. It's his business to rehome the dog if he wants , especially with a 1.5 year old child. Don't feel too bad about it BDM. It happens.

Set up an occasional for a nip on the face, without letting it happen. Grab the pup by the mouth and squeeze his teeth against his lips until he "speaks." You may have to do it on more than one occasion. This is not a bad as the Mom would have done if bit in the face. She's have grabbed him by the throat and given him a shake. I bet the rest of the litter was glad to see that pup go.
Don't leave pup and baby together unsupervised ever.
If my 10 week old pup ate a bird I'd be thrilled.
Congrats. on being successful with housetraining - no easy task.
Tell your wife you're working on it. Preparation for having a 2 year old.
Get pup out in some safe field to run off -leash and get rid of that energy.
All the best; let me know how it goes.

PS Your only mistake that I can see is :

"When I went to pick up "my" puppy, she was crazy. I was there for an hour, and she literally attacked every other puppy there. . . for the entire hour."

Some trainers here have the experience needed to perhaps make that pup a Champion ,; they normally pick the most aggressive pup, but you should have said "No ,Thank you. Not that one." I dpn't want the most dominate pup nor the shy pup. I try to choose from the middle .

You got scammed on $1500. but if the market will tolerate it , why shouldn't the breeder ask for it.?
Where I live, there are very few breeders of gun dogs.They can ask $1500. too and $250. a week for training. Ontarioans seem to have forgotten that Michigan and New York are not that far away; they do have choice.

[Smitty's Labradors]

I bought a puppy from a reputable breeder. I paid $1500.00 for her. I have had nothing but problems with the dog. I would never blame a dog 100%, because I know how much we affect our dogs. But I think this dog is a little off.

I chose this dog because I needed a calm family pet. I expressed this to the breeder. I visited the pups at 4 weeks, and then was kept up to date by the breeder with photos and personality descriptions. I had to pick "my" puppy at 7 weeks based on my visit, the pictures, and the descriptions. When I went to pick up "my" puppy, she was crazy. I was there for an hour, and she literally attacked every other puppy there. . . for the entire hour. No other puppies were behaving this way. All of them at one point tried to lie down (if they could get away from her). She never did. I didn't think too much of it, because she was only 7.5 weeks. Could have been just having an off day, I thought.

She is 5.5 months now, and nothing has changed. The dog is constantly jumping on other dogs and nipping at people's faces. She swallows everything she can, and she won't give anything up. She tried to swallow a whole, live pigeon the other day rather than give it back. I literally had to pull it out by its legs. She bit my adult dog twice last week, creating two 3/4" wounds that needed to be stitched. This was mostly the product of puppy teeth and her being out of control. It didn't seem to be a malicious attack, but caused damage none-the-less. This is my third bird dog puppy. I never had any of these problems with the others.

Is this stuff normal? Is it worth hanging on to her to see what happens?

What concerns me is that I don't like the dog. . . which is a first for me.

I contacted the breeder about these problems about 5 weeks ago, and after that conversation decided to stick it out a while. It isn't getting better. I sent an e-mail to the breeder today, and she won't take her back.

Thoughts or suggestions?

My suggestion, being a breeder and someone who has good experience training my own gun dogs, for a future reference. When picking a pup, shy away from the ones that seem a more hyper, but don't choose the one that tends to avoid the rest of the litter and has a lack of energy. Your typical gun dog usually is somewhere in the middle. The one you have now may calm down and be more controllable in time, but in the process you lose a lot of quality time in the most important part of your pups training which lies in its first year of training. I would take it to a true professional and have him give it a go, just to rule out the possibility of the pups training. Prepare yourself ahead of time though, he may tell you the best option is to look else where. If he does, a good breeder will understand your situation and do their best to get you the right dog. If someone I sold a dog to had issues like that, I would at very least offer a good discount, but probably just replace it for another one even though it is not in the original contract. As breeders, we have to rely on our reputation.

[Sharon]

Excellent post.

[Smitty's Labradors]

After reading more of your posts, the best option I think for you is to get rid of her. By 5.5 months, she should know what is right and what is wrong. After training a couple of pups yourself, you have a good idea of how the pup should be at this point. I once had a similar situation on a male lab. Fortunately, I found him a home where his only job is to keep an eye on his owners horse, from what they tell us, he is a good dog for them. I lost out in the long run, but saved myself a lot of headaches trying to train a retriever to do a job he wasn't suited for. It isn't often it happens, but sometimes it does. If at all possible, on your next pic, either find someone who WILL in fact do their best to get you what you ask for, or try to make more than one visit. Choose your top couple prospects on your first visit, and then try to go back and focus on those ones that you liked the first time. At some point, one of them will be the right one.

[birddogger]

I don't see where he is saying he doesn't like the dog;

What concerns me is that I don't like the dog. . . which is a first for me.

I doubt that this will change and is why I recommended rehoming the dog.

Charlie

[Sharon]

Missed that. Thanks.