a ? to setter fans

[phoneman45]

Hey everyone.

Here is a few questions I need answered. I have long been a birdogger, owning my share of setters and brits and consider myself a fair trainer. I have recently been given the opportunity to purchase a setter out of De-Coverly lines. A kennel not to far from here has pups coming in the near future. The father is a De-Coverly dog thru and thru (both parents are De-Coverly dogs). His mother is a Pinecoble (I believe). She has been hunted extensively on grouse, woodcock and pheasants. The sire has been worked on planted birds only as his OFA is excellent and he was considered very valuable to the breeding program and for safety reasons he was not hunted as much as the dam. My ?s are, Has anyone owned a setter of this type? If so how was it as a house dog? Was it a good field dog? I hunt grouse and woodcock almost exclusively so I need a dog of that caliber. I dont want a horizon finder but I dont want a pottering boot polisher either. I have owned setters over the years with ranges of all types, so I have a good idea want i want. Does anyone out there own a dog of this type? Let me know of your experiences.

thanks

phoneman45

[kylenicholas02]

Pretty quiet... must not be alot of setter fans... You're welcome to join the pointer world anytime...

[Winchey]

I have only seen 2 or 3, but they would have struggled to keep up with a lab.

[shags]

A dog from a particular line OFAs excellent and therefore is considered too valuable to do the job he was supposedly bred and born to do?
That alone would have me looking elsewhere.

[Greg Jennings]

I suggest doing a search of the archives on "decoverly". Might be illuminating.

[MHWH]

I don't know much about Setter lines, but this not hunting the dog? I also think something is up.

Could be all sorts of things, but this does not sound like the real reason.

I'd be very careful.

Mike

[Lyco Setter]

I have only seen 2 or 3, but they would have struggled to keep up with a lab.

Sure you don't mean a basset?

[baileydog2007]

When I bought my stter and was doing research, I did call them, and checked out their web site. For me, and me only, it seemed they breed show dogs and setters for photo shoots in Cabelas ads. When I called, I would have been #24ish on a waiting list to get a pup, and they were from 1600.00 to 2000.00. They said about 1 year wait. I did get a couple references, who said all the right things when I asked, and I see no reason for them to lie, but I had a bad "gut" feeling and I wasnt really willing to wait a year for a pup when I had reservations in the first place. My reservations could have totally been off, but I wasnt comfortable. You should look to Ray G from this site, the little I have been on this site, he seems to be very very knowledgable about setters.

[mcbosco]

When you say "this type" are you referring to this type:

http://www.octobersetters.com/rocky.html

??

If so, then this would be the setter anyone over the age of 45 would have seen, especially in the Northeast.

This is the classic dual-purpose setter, and one that conforms to the traditional English Setter standard. I had one partly from Old Hemlock lines years back.

Recently, the kennel you mentioned fell on hard times after a change of ownership, but in its day it was more than respectable, much more.

So the type of Setter that came out of that kennel was the classic gentleman's hunting dog. Excellent temperament, large frame, great nose, intelligent, foot hunter and very wall mannered with all dogs and all people. Known for being very quiet indoors.

[DonF]

I don't know a thing about the bloodline other than I've heard of it. Doesn't seem to many other guy's have either, I'd pass. If I was aware of the line and what it has accomplished and it suited me, I jump in. If I didn't know the line, as you seem not to on this one and getting no more replys than you've got, I'd walk away.

[Angus]

If the pups are more Old Hemlock or Ryman type dual dogs than Decoverly, I'd say look into it a bit more. Ask if they can show you what the parents can do and other dogs in their kennel. If you like what you see and they are not priced at decoverly prices, go for it. My grandfather used to hunt behind Old Hemlock dogs and my one Uncle always had a Ryman. I remember seeing the old pics of them and the dogs and they busted a lot of game. Decoverly dogs are over priced IMO. I do not have much info on their breeding and lines and I have never seen one in the field or woods to really comment on hunting ability or style. I can only go off of what I've heard and there is no use in spreading hearsay.

[Ralph Ford]

Decoverly dogs have gone through a change of ownership. Got a lot of press a year or so ago due to a conflict with local Govt.

[phoneman45]

hey guys,

Thanks for the reply's. They were priced at about half of what De Coverly dogs are. I have read extensively about the Old Hemlock dogs that George Bird Evans developed and have seen much written about the Ryman strain such as what Corey Ford hunted over. It seems that the three biggest kennels breeding this type are October Mt., De Coverly and Pinecoble. Have been looking at some Lewellin kennels as well, but havent given up on the standard English Setter either. One of the most beautiful dogs on point is an English Setter. Wouldnt you all agree? There are a few very reputable kennels in my area sp I have my work cut out for me. Thanks again.

eric

[Angus]

hey guys,

Thanks for the reply's. They were priced at about half of what De Coverly dogs are. I have read extensively about the Old Hemlock dogs that George Bird Evans developed and have seen much written about the Ryman strain such as what Corey Ford hunted over. It seems that the three biggest kennels breeding this type are October Mt., De Coverly and Pinecoble. Have been looking at some Lewellin kennels as well, but havent given up on the standard English Setter either. One of the most beautiful dogs on point is an English Setter. Wouldnt you all agree? There are a few very reputable kennels in my area sp I have my work cut out for me. Thanks again.

eric

I certainly have a soft spot for Setters on point. I guess it runs in my blood.

There are some good Ryman and Lew dogs running around PA to take a look at as well. Do your homework and you'll find just what you're looking for.

[jimssetters]

I will have to agree with the others about backing out. If you want to hunt your dogs you should look for a kennel that breeds and raises English Setters that hunt. Your dog can be trained to hunt in range if that is what your worried about. You should be looking for that hunting desire and birdy puppy that will reward you with birds for a long time. Check local first and find the bloodlines you desire.

[JIM K]

maybe RYMAN GUN DOG will chime in.if not,drop him PM .being i am from PA that decoverly WAS ALWAYS GREAT DOGS.
but very expensive .i like LYNNHILL in pa for lew setters but pa does have some of best setter breeders in country .

you want to see a real nice setter,take look at the RED/WHITE SETTERS .there is irish breeder out west that brings in some of old lines from ireland on red/white.

if i dont get SMALL MUNSTERLANDER i am going to give the red/white setter a good look.my neighbor 40 years ago had 2.
man they could hunt birds and hunted close with only bell.

will try to find site.

http://www.odobhailien.com

[High Brass]

Hey Eric
I don't think a kennel has to be the biggest to necessarily produce the best pups. If that is the case a lot of people on this forum have no where near enough dogs to do a good job. Most of the more successful breeders of Ryman type dogs of today have built there kennel out of dogs that go back to one breeding, that was Rymans Blue Return X Rymans Orange Heather. In the 70's good hips had become a real problem in Setters. Some how Errol and Jason Gooding in Wisconsin (Goodgoing Kennels) realized the quality of that breeding and bought a few pups out of that breeding, and the following year bought one entire litter. Some people who appreciate this type dog have figured this out and started there breeding program using the descendants of that breeding. This includes October Setters out West. You can find quality Ryman type dogs from small breeders scattered through out the upper mid and eastern part of the country, with some doing I feel a little better job than others.

Beware of kennels that tell you there is no need for you to see the pedigree of a pup since you won't understand it, or have OFA certified dogs that cannot be found on the OFA website (This happens at some kennels in PA)

Good Luck in your search and decision making
Bob

[Angus]

Hey Eric
I don't think a kennel has to be the biggest to necessarily produce the best pups. If that is the case a lot of people on this forum have no where near enough dogs to do a good job. Most of the more successful breeders of Ryman type dogs of today have built there kennel out of dogs that go back to one breeding, that was Rymans Blue Return X Rymans Orange Heather. In the 70's good hips had become a real problem in Setters. Some how Errol and Jason Gooding in Wisconsin (Goodgoing Kennels) realized the quality of that breeding and bought a few pups out of that breeding, and the following year bought one entire litter. Some people who appreciate this type dog have figured this out and started there breeding program using the descendants of that breeding. This includes October Setters out West. You can find quality Ryman type dogs from small breeders scattered through out the upper mid and eastern part of the country, with some doing I feel a little better job than others.

Beware of kennels that tell you there is no need for you to see the pedigree of a pup since you won't understand it, or have OFA certified dogs that cannot be found on the OFA website (This happens at some kennels in PA)

Good Luck in your search and decision making
Bob

Hmmm, I have never had this problem. Where in PA is this practiced? Who is breeding dogs like this?

The fact is there are bad breeders and bad kennels in every state in the country. It's up to us to do the research and look into the operation. There are also very good Setter breeders across the US and Canada, and PA has some excellent lines, and breeders/kennels.

[High Brass]

Angus
I should have said a kennel not some kennels. Sorry.

Thanks
Bob