Field trials and walking events

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:46 pm

As unblievable as that sounds Brandon I believe there has been a few.Seems I remember of reading about one on this forum maybe it was in Minnesota not sure.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:15 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:As unblievable as that sounds Brandon I believe there has been a few.Seems I remember of reading about one on this forum maybe it was in Minnesota not sure.

That is crazy!
I would have to see it to believe it.
Maybe our Western AA dogs run bigger than Minnesota AA dogs because there is nobody foolish enough here to try and run a true AA dog on foot with the dogs keying off the Horseback judges and horseback gallery.
You would lose them at the cast off.
I guess stranger things have happened though

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:15 pm

ultracarry wrote:So the mounted judges and bird planters could not do a walking Amature gun dog then do a all.age....

If the club offered a mounted All Age stake, I am sure the mounted judges who officiated at the walking amateur gun dog stake and the mounted bird planter would be free to enter their dogs in that horseback all age stake, if they weren't judging that one also.

I will often run a dog or two in a stake at a trial where I am judging... just not in a stake that I AM judging. I daresay most folks do just that also. Folks that judge are entitled to have some fun with their dogs too.

What's your point??

RayG

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:23 pm

Dirtysteve wrote:
ultracarry wrote:So the mounted judges and bird planters could not do a walking Amature gun dog then do a all.age....
A walking AA???
You must have gotten into the evidence locker!

lol the only walking stake would be the amt gun dog.....

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:33 pm

RayGubernat wrote:
ultracarry wrote:So the mounted judges and bird planters could not do a walking Amature gun dog then do a all.age....
If the club offered a mounted All Age stake, I am sure the mounted judges who officiated at the walking amateur gun dog stake and the mounted bird planter would be free to enter their dogs in that horseback all age stake, if they weren't judging that one also.

I will often run a dog or two in a stake at a trial where I am judging... just not in a stake that I AM judging. I daresay most folks do just that also. Folks that judge are entitled to have some fun with their dogs too.

What's your point??

RayG

Adding a walking gun dog before the horseback All Age would be an easy way to increase participation without you having to get a whole new pair of judges and putting them up for the weekend. All age and seems to have less than Open Gun dog as far as overall entries. If you Limit the amount of entries for Amature gun dog and all age to those that can be run during daylight hours on sat and Sunday. Don't matter how many of each you get and you can make everyone happy. ( as long as they get entries in) . If all is less then perfect you could shuffle judges around to allow for judges to run dogs after they are done judging.

I'm already in to the sport so I'm not going to get my feelings hurt. There is a ton of walking and HB events out here and I can do both.

larue · Post by **larue** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:35 pm

the four lakes club will be holding a walking trial on dec 3rd at a hunt club er,,private training grounds.
Bring your long underwear,and your anti freeze
It will be help close to horicon marsh here in wis.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:46 pm

Larue was it you that attended a walking AA some where? I'm sure some one posted about one on here before & was thinking your name came up????

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:25 pm

ultracarry wrote:So the mounted judges and bird planters could not do a walking Amature gun dog then do a all.age....

Not sure if I understand what you are saying but the 2 Judges for the week end normally judge all stakes.

jhoughton · Post by **jhoughton** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:40 pm

Down in the southeast there are a bunch (I believe

walking trials per year. The only reason there are this many down here is because there are multiple clubs willing to support each other to fill up the trial entries and there is a small group of people that run the trials and are committed to having walking trials. The Atlanta Visla Club hosts a 4 day trial (where do you ever see a 4 day walking trial) with I believe just one horseback stake (to make sure the pro's attend) and the rest walking and just about every stake I have seen is a major. Why you may ask do we have so many walking trials and get decent participation? Because a few good souled people bust their butts every year to make sure the events happen for everyone else. They do all the grunt work, make sure they have the support of all the local pro's and create an event that everyone has a bunch of fun at.

I am sorry but I get frustrated every time someone complains about events not being available. If you want more events, get involved...offer your services...solicit the help of others...and get the support of the local pro's. These events never happen if people just wished they had them!!!

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:04 pm

Sharon wrote:
ultracarry wrote:So the mounted judges and bird planters could not do a walking Amature gun dog then do a all.age....
Not sure if I understand what you are saying but the 2 Judges for the week end normally judge all stakes.

That is what he is saying, to add an additional walking state to an existing HB trial, instead of holding a separate event. Good idea.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:43 pm

There are a lot of events that are local where you can have three or four separate courses. There is a lot going on and have seen it work quite well. Some clubs like the britt clubs offer Amature walking Derby and puppy as well as horseback stakes for broke dogs.

Remember you don't have a horse to go in a HB trial. All of the judges I have talked to won't hold it against you and its another dog competing so don't be afraid.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:50 pm

Sharon wrote:
Not sure if I understand what you are saying but the 2 Judges for the week end normally judge all stakes.

Normally? I've chaired numerous FT's, I can tell you this....you beat up a pair of judges you'll never see them again. And here's the bigger point...do you really want the same opinion in the OGD, OLGD and the AGD? If you don't bring the type of dog those judges like...it was a waste of your hard earned money. I like to have a different set of judges for the OGD and the OLGD....one of the pair can then have the AGD or a mixture of the four can have the AGD. Also, not many judges bring the horse power required to judge all the stakes.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:12 pm

ultracarry wrote:
RayGubernat wrote:
ultracarry wrote:So the mounted judges and bird planters could not do a walking Amature gun dog then do a all.age....
If the club offered a mounted All Age stake, I am sure the mounted judges who officiated at the walking amateur gun dog stake and the mounted bird planter would be free to enter their dogs in that horseback all age stake, if they weren't judging that one also.

I will often run a dog or two in a stake at a trial where I am judging... just not in a stake that I AM judging. I daresay most folks do just that also. Folks that judge are entitled to have some fun with their dogs too.

What's your point??

RayG

Adding a walking gun dog before the horseback All Age would be an easy way to increase participation without you having to get a whole new pair of judges and putting them up for the weekend. All age and seems to have less than Open Gun dog as far as overall entries. If you Limit the amount of entries for Amature gun dog and all age to those that can be run during daylight hours on sat and Sunday. Don't matter how many of each you get and you can make everyone happy. ( as long as they get entries in) . If all is less then perfect you could shuffle judges around to allow for judges to run dogs after they are done judging.

I'm already in to the sport so I'm not going to get my feelings hurt. There is a ton of walking and HB events out here and I can do both.

Ultra -

I misunderstood your post. My apologies. I completely agree that if there is interest in a walking stake it can generally be added to the slate of stakes without much difficulty.

It is often far easier to come up with judges when the bulk of the stakes are horseback, because you have two bites at the apple. At a horseback trial you have both qualified judges available AND horses. A fair number of horseback trialers have two horses and can only ride one at a time.

The only time it becomes an issue is when and if the horseback stakes are typically fully subscribed and there is no place else on the grounds to hold a walking stake while a horseback stake is in progress.

RayG

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:33 pm

True.

The judges are hard to come by and it all depends on the grounds. It's almost a thank-less job other then the few that placed. The clubs need a lot of help to put the events on and nothing is cheap.

ill help plant birds and gun but the biggest problem is getting a day off on the weekend.

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:34 pm

ACooper wrote:
Sharon wrote:
ultracarry wrote:So the mounted judges and bird planters could not do a walking Amature gun dog then do a all.age....
Not sure if I understand what you are saying but the 2 Judges for the week end normally judge all stakes.
That is what he is saying, to add an additional walking state to an existing HB trial, instead of holding a separate event. Good idea.

Only a good idea if you are having trouble filling entries in the stakes already offered. If the trial normally fills up with the # of dogs that can be run in available daylight then adding another stake means cutting folks out of the already offered stakes.

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:36 pm

Sharon wrote: the 2 Judges for the week end normally judge all stakes.

I've certainly never seen that. You would kill the enthusiasm anyone might have for judging - plus the judges usually have dogs they would like to run as well.

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:42 pm

I've never got so much press.

I'm not speaking of Judges that have been brought in from afar off. Our 4 judges are part of our club. They would be there anyway and are glad to judge - all their expenses are covered. They shift things around so they can also run their own dogs.One is a firemen which we are glad to have in case any handler gets into difficulty.
We call on judges "from afar" for all Championships and appreciate them coming.

larue · Post by **larue** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:13 am

Walking trials are the gateway to horseback events for many people.
I myself had a 2 year old dog,who I had put 2 prize 1 ut scores,and his master hunt test title on,I was looking to run something else with him,so walking trials were a very easy new game.
Just take the dog in my car,and run them.
After running them awhile,I stopped running navhda,and hunt tests and bought a horse ect and started just running trials.
This is a very common start to horseback events.
As far as holding trials,they are no diffferent to hold than a horseback event,it just takes a club member to take charge and make it happen.
We average around 45 to 50 entries in our walking trial,and we always either break even or make a 100 bucks..
I would also say,if there are no walking trials in your area,join a club and make it happen.In most cases a club will be happy to put on a walking trial if someone does the work,or at least heads up the getting of judges,approvals,birds ect.
Instead of complaining about no events,join a club,and start a new event,it is the only way to get trials ran,someone has to do the work.

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:04 am

Glad to hear the Four Lakes GSPC will be having a WFT again. Hopefully the GSPC of MN will get back to having one during the spring of 2012.

The walking AA stake was am Erbe idea. They had it a few years back when the GSPC of NE held their WFT in late August at Branched Oak. It was the last stake to run and i headed home so didnt stick around to watch it.

Pretty sure you will never see a walking AA stake at any FT that im part of putting on.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:27 am

Anyway, trials are very hard to put on. They are VERY time consuming. Is there a big push for walking trials in your area? We had talked about adding a walking stake to our HB trial. A few things came up. But the main thing that it boiled down to was that the cost wouldn't outway the gain. We hoped to get some of the walking people to not only enter in the walking stake but to possibly enter a dog in the HB trial. Between the cost of birds and judges for the walking stake we just couldn't justify it. Also, on our grounds, you are only allowed a certain time(days) to run and since you have to advertise the walking trial with the HB trial, we had no idea on how many entries we would get for the HB and we didn't want to cut anything short. There are a ton of things to consider. And as I said before, if you think it can take off, give it a shot.

solon · Post by **solon** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:31 am

I am not trying to be funny, but I remember seeing some ruffed grouse up in the panhandle somewhere. There is forest with ruffies in the northern parts of ID, as shown here:

http://sdakotabirds.com/species/ruffed_grouse_info.htm

Maybe you could organize a group to run a trial on Ruffed Grouse, a cover dog event. That would almost certainly have to be walking, except maybe for the judges if there are decent trails for the courses.

Solon

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:41 am

Sharon wrote:I've never got so much press.
I'm not speaking of Judges that have been brought in from afar off. Our 4 judges are part of our club. They would be there anyway and are glad to judge. They shift things around so they can also run their own dogs.One is a firemen which we are glad to have in case any handler gets into difficulty.
We call on judges "from afar" for all Championships and appreciate them coming.

This is what we called a "Good Old Boys Club" Having your own club members judged all of your events. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Won't ever run another trial like that.

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:02 am

ElhewPointer wrote:Anyway, trials are very hard to put on. They are VERY time consuming. Is there a big push for walking trials in your area? We had talked about adding a walking stake to our HB trial. A few things came up. But the main thing that it boiled down to was that the cost wouldn't outway the gain. We hoped to get some of the walking people to not only enter in the walking stake but to possibly enter a dog in the HB trial. Between the cost of birds and judges for the walking stake we just couldn't justify it. Also, on our grounds, you are only allowed a certain time(days) to run and since you have to advertise the walking trial with the HB trial, we had no idea on how many entries we would get for the HB and we didn't want to cut anything short. There are a ton of things to consider. And as I said before, if you think it can take off, give it a shot.

I tried to start a club in the Grand Forks Area of ND, but there really aren't very many dedicated dog people (ones that want their dogs steady to wing and shot) in that area. I put on a few "Fun events' where judging stopped at the flush, I had fun and plenty of participation but beyond that no one really had any interest to take their dogs further, so it died when I left the area. Now that I live in Idaho, As I said in a previous post I do belong to a club and I also said that I should be part of the solution, so... you're right... I will volunteer on the next go around to chair an event.

I have walked a HB stake. My very first trial in WI I walked. After I ran the judge pulled me a side and told me "Your dog is capable, but get a horse".... or something like that. So as a last resort I may do that.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:20 am

Gordon Guy wrote:
ElhewPointer wrote:Anyway, trials are very hard to put on. They are VERY time consuming. Is there a big push for walking trials in your area? We had talked about adding a walking stake to our HB trial. A few things came up. But the main thing that it boiled down to was that the cost wouldn't outway the gain. We hoped to get some of the walking people to not only enter in the walking stake but to possibly enter a dog in the HB trial. Between the cost of birds and judges for the walking stake we just couldn't justify it. Also, on our grounds, you are only allowed a certain time(days) to run and since you have to advertise the walking trial with the HB trial, we had no idea on how many entries we would get for the HB and we didn't want to cut anything short. There are a ton of things to consider. And as I said before, if you think it can take off, give it a shot.
I tried to start a club in the Grand Forks Area of ND, but there really aren't very many dedicated dog people (ones that want their dogs steady to wing and shot) in that area. I put on a few "Fun events' where judging stopped at the flush, I had fun and plenty of participation but beyond that no one really had any interest to take their dogs further, so it died when I left the area. Now that I live in Idaho, As I said in a previous post I do belong to a club and I also said that I should be part of the solution, so... you're right... I will volunteer on the next go around to chair an event.

I have walked a HB stake. My very first trial in WI I walked. After I ran the judge pulled me a side and told me "Your dog is capable, but get a horse".... or something like that. So as a last resort I may do that.

That right there has done more to chase people off ...Horses are expensive and most people just want to run their dogs not have to buy a trailer horses and extra feed bills and everything else that goes with having a horse....Specially with our tanking economy and out of control fuel prices

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:53 am

Now that I live in Idaho

Don't make too many long term plans...we still haven't voted if we're gonna let you stay.

Can't believe all the reluctance with doing a walking AA, buncha pansies!!

Isn't that just a regular ol' foot hunt?? Lace 'em up, stretch 'em out, breathe in/breathe out. The dog still has to come and go with ya',stand birds till ya' get there, stand broke, then get to the end of the course to win the thing. If it runs off, gets lost, busts birds, or doesn't stand broke, it probably isn't gonna win horseback either!

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:37 am

DGFavor wrote:
Now that I live in Idaho
Don't make too many long term plans...we still haven't voted if we're gonna let you stay.

Can't believe all the reluctance with doing a walking AA, buncha pansies!! Isn't that just a regular ol' foot hunt?? Lace 'em up, stretch 'em out, breathe in/breathe out. The dog still has to come and go with ya',stand birds till ya' get there, stand broke, then get to the end of the course to win the thing. If it runs off, gets lost, busts birds, or doesn't stand broke, it probably isn't gonna win horseback either!

Guess that means you can't win with a lost dog

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:24 am

kensfishing wrote:
Sharon wrote:I've never got so much press.
I'm not speaking of Judges that have been brought in from afar off. Our 4 judges are part of our club. They would be there anyway and are glad to judge. They shift things around so they can also run their own dogs.One is a firemen which we are glad to have in case any handler gets into difficulty.
We call on judges "from afar" for all Championships and appreciate them coming.
This is what we called a "Good Old Boys Club" Having your own club members judged all of your events. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Won't ever run another trial like that.

Kensfishing -

What you describe is very much dependent on the ethics of the individual judges. Not everyone will prostitute themselves for a hunk of ribbon. There are plenty of folks in my area that are local and whom I would have absolutely no problem running under because I know in my heart I will get a fair shake. There are a few that I have my doubts about and a very few that I will not run under for one reason or another. However, on the flip side of that... there are a few folks who I believe are so honest and ethical that I would trust them to judge their own dogs.

It all comes down to personal ethics...either you got 'em or you don't. I personally believe that the vast majority of dedicated amateur field trialers are fairly ethical about what they put forth when sitting in the judicial saddle. lets not forget there are always TWO judges. that can help.

RayG

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:31 am

kensfishing wrote:
Sharon wrote:I've never got so much press.
I'm not speaking of Judges that have been brought in from afar off. Our 4 judges are part of our club. They would be there anyway and are glad to judge. They shift things around so they can also run their own dogs.One is a firemen which we are glad to have in case any handler gets into difficulty.
We call on judges "from afar" for all Championships and appreciate them coming.
This is what we called a "Good Old Boys Club" Having your own club members judged all of your events. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Won't ever run another trial like that.

Yes you could look at it that way but we have confidence in the impartiality and integrity of our judges. Rarely is a placement made that the rest of us don't agree with.

(Well said Ray.)

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:01 pm

DGFavor wrote:
Now that I live in Idaho
Don't make too many long term plans...we still haven't voted if we're gonna let you stay.

Can't believe all the reluctance with doing a walking AA, buncha pansies!! Isn't that just a regular ol' foot hunt?? Lace 'em up, stretch 'em out, breathe in/breathe out. The dog still has to come and go with ya',stand birds till ya' get there, stand broke, then get to the end of the course to win the thing. If it runs off, gets lost, busts birds, or doesn't stand broke, it probably isn't gonna win horseback either!

I was thinking the same thing. We constantly hear how the AA dogs are great hunting dogs but then we hear that a walking AA just can't be run. Last I knew most of us hunt on foot and your dog that can't get around with the handler on foot pretty much says it just isn't going to cut it as a hunting dog.

Ezzy

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:27 pm

Ray I''m glad you have that. But I've ran and been to trials that has happened. In fact my first time I handled a dog in a trial it happened. It almost turned me off. Glad I stuck it out. I for one will not play any favorites at a trial. A few of my friends have gotten a little disturbed at me for it. I won't do it and I don't want anyone else to do it, but it happens alot more than most people relize. Wish it wasn't true.

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:33 pm

kensfishing wrote:Ray I''m glad you have that. But I've ran and been to trials that has happened. In fact my first time I handled a dog in a trial it happened. It almost turned me off. Glad I stuck it out. I for one will not play any favorites at a trial. A few of my friends have gotten a little disturbed at me for it. I won't do it and I don't want anyone else to do it, but it happens alot more than most people relize. Wish it wasn't true.

I can't say that I have ever seen it, and like Ray I know more than a few folks that I would trust to judge their own dog in a stake.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:34 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
DGFavor wrote:
Now that I live in Idaho
Don't make too many long term plans...we still haven't voted if we're gonna let you stay.

Can't believe all the reluctance with doing a walking AA, buncha pansies!! Isn't that just a regular ol' foot hunt?? Lace 'em up, stretch 'em out, breathe in/breathe out. The dog still has to come and go with ya',stand birds till ya' get there, stand broke, then get to the end of the course to win the thing. If it runs off, gets lost, busts birds, or doesn't stand broke, it probably isn't gonna win horseback either!
I was thinking the same thing. We constantly hear how the AA dogs are great hunting dogs but then we hear that a walking AA just can't be run. Last I knew most of us hunt on foot and your dog that can't get around with the handler on foot pretty much says it just isn't going to cut it as a hunting dog.

Ezzy

Ezzy its different when you have 2 handlers walking. 2 judges off horse and 20 riders off horseback in the gallery. At least that whats our walking trials look like around here. The dogs will key off the horses and really streatch out almost too far for a walking stake.
Doug you know this is true
I have hunted with some of the biggest running AA dogs we have out here and off foot they are good hunting dogs but put them in front of a horse and watch them hit the horizons.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:48 pm

Ezzy here is a pic of the GSPCU spring 2010 walking trial gallery getting ready to ride and watch. Do you think the dog thinks he's at a walking trial or at a HB trial?
This was taken by 12voltman not by myself.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:14 pm

I an aware of what the trials look like and I am sure the dog can cue off of the horses but if the dog is really hunting for you it would soon realize that you ae walking. I'm not being super critical but just kind of proves what so many hunters think of field trials and why it is the no1 reason that people wanting hunting dogs don't want one of yours if you tell them they are trial breeding.

Ezzy

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:30 pm

Can't believe all the reluctance with doing a walking AA, buncha pansies!! Isn't that just a regular ol' foot hunt?? Lace 'em up, stretch 'em out, breathe in/breathe out. The dog still has to come and go with ya',stand birds till ya' get there, stand broke, then get to the end of the course to win the thing. If it runs off, gets lost, busts birds, or doesn't stand broke, it probably isn't gonna win horseback either!

I am down with all that...if the grounds are right. I usually find an AA dogs breakaway is deep afoot or horseback, and then they make the adjustment to handler speed. So, if you are rolling in the flats or the alfalfa where you can see aways...you are golden. However there are two advantages on a HB trial and or a foot hunt in the hills that we don't have in a walking trial with an AA dog. in the trial we have a scout for limb finds over hill and dale that is mounted, and when we are walking in a foot hunt we have tracking technology, that keeps us from wandering around challengening cardiac infarction

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:31 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I an aware of what the trials look like and I am sure the dog can cue off of the horses but if the dog is really hunting for you it would soon realize that you ae walking. I'm not being super critical but just kind of proves what so many hunters think of field trials and why it is the no1 reason that people wanting hunting dogs don't want one of yours if you tell them they are trial breeding.

Ezzy

I've never had any one say "oh, your dogs are field trial dogs? Well i don't want one then."

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:33 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I an aware of what the trials look like and I am sure the dog can cue off of the horses but if the dog is really hunting for you it would soon realize that you ae walking. I'm not being super critical but just kind of proves what so many hunters think of field trials and why it is the no1 reason that people wanting hunting dogs don't want one of yours if you tell them they are trial breeding.

Ezzy

All this shows is that you don't actually understand running dogs in competition.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:37 pm

If the average hunters say they don't want one of my pups if and when I ever breed, well my feelings really wouldn't be hurt. It would just show me the lack of knowledge they possess.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:39 pm

My feelings would be hurt...but I have a sensitive side

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:44 pm

Chukar12 wrote:My feelings would be hurt...but I have a sensitive side

Well of course you do. You run Britts so it's to be expected

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:27 pm

I've won walking stakes with my AA dog. He knows the difference. He cues off me and not the horses. You can take any field trial bred dog and make them hunt on foot. You've got to be smarter than the dog.

But to be honest there's a big difference between a AA Brit and a AA shorthair or pointer. You need to see it. Not looking for a fight over this, but it's the truth.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:39 pm

slistoe wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I an aware of what the trials look like and I am sure the dog can cue off of the horses but if the dog is really hunting for you it would soon realize that you ae walking. I'm not being super critical but just kind of proves what so many hunters think of field trials and why it is the no1 reason that people wanting hunting dogs don't want one of yours if you tell them they are trial breeding.

Ezzy
All this shows is that you don't actually understand running dogs in competition.

Darn, now I know the problem. I have no idea what I am doing, I kind of supisioned that several years ago. I think it was in the 50's when I first got involved. But many of the running dogs were panting so much when they wanted to talk they were hard to understand so I just ignored them and told them to keep running.

Ezzy

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:41 pm

kensfishing wrote:I've won walking stakes with my AA dog. He knows the difference. He cues off me and not the horses. You can take any field trial bred dog and make them hunt on foot. You've got to be smarter than the dog. But to be honest there's a big difference between a AA Brit and a AA shorthair or pointer. You need to see it. Not looking for a fight over this, but it's the truth.

I hope you are right but am really not sure about that.

Ezzy

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:44 pm

sully511 wrote:I am new to this, so this might be a very stupid question..... I have done a couple of walking trials and 1 horseback trial. I probably won't do horseback again. I'm not very comfortable up on a horse. But, I thought you could choose to walk even if it was a horseback trial. Is this the case? If you do walk during a horseback trial, do the judges frown upon that? They should be judging the dog, not the handler right?

You can walk in HB trial, but it's not a way to make friends. The other handler is put at a disadvantage, as he can't move ahead of you. The Judge can be frustrated. Highly unlikely you will reach the end of the course before times up. I did it once and got the picture.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:47 pm

Ezzy: Leather helmets were still around in football in the 50's and there was no three point line in B-ball either. Sports change, just as ours did. And so do the competitors. Dogs have come a long way in 60 yrs.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:57 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:Ezzy: Leather helmets were still around in football in the 50's and there was no three point line in B-ball either. Sports change, just as ours did. And so do the competitors. Dogs have come a long way in 60 yrs.

Again, no argument,but somethings don't change, some things change that shouldn't, and some things changed that helped. But trialing hasn't changed much though I see the AA dogs being a lot better than they were back when they were breeding for run and didn't want the dog to find birds after one point. Went through a period with the Brits where everyone was wanting bigger dogs but mosyt have wised up now and they discovered the smaller dogs performed as well and manytime better. But we are still paying because of the people who just couldn't live with the standard and there still are a few breeders that haven't figured it out yet.

I see little difference in the gundogs but the AA classes are better today. But I still have to go back to that era to name the best dog I ever saw. So what does that say about improvement.

Ezzy

PS Leather helmets were long gone in the 50's, and they still called fouls for touching your opponet in BB. Yep major changes have taken place.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:10 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
ElhewPointer wrote:Ezzy: Leather helmets were still around in football in the 50's and there was no three point line in B-ball either. Sports change, just as ours did. And so do the competitors. Dogs have come a long way in 60 yrs.
Again, no argument,but somethings don't change, some things change that shouldn't, and some things changed that helped. But trialing hasn't changed much though I see the AA dogs being a lot better than they were back when they were breeding for run and didn't want the dog to find birds after one point. Went through a period with the Brits where everyone was wanting bigger dogs but mosyt have wised up now and they discovered the smaller dogs performed as well and manytime better. But we are still paying because of the people who just couldn't live with the standard and there still are a few breeders that haven't figured it out yet.

I see little difference in the gundogs but the AA classes are better today. But I still have to go back to that era to name the best dog I ever saw. So what does that say about improvement.

Ezzy

PS Leather helmets were long gone in the 50's, and they still called fouls for touching your opponet in BB. Yep major changes have taken place.

Just givin ya grief.

I do feel the field trials have changed though. Style in dogs has change(12 oclock tail), head crank, not being low in the front. Also, I think that the demands on the dogs as far as steady to wing and shot go havent gotten more stringent(not a good thing IMO). Gundogs may not have changed. But in AF, Shooting dogs and AA dogs have both changed dramatically.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:00 pm

Dirtysteve wrote:Ezzy here is a pic of the GSPCU spring 2010 walking trial gallery getting ready to ride and watch. Do you think the dog thinks he's at a walking trial or at a HB trial?
This was taken by 12voltman not by myself.

I placed (2nd) my avatar dog, whom I consider to be a legit AKC AA dog (AF Shooting Dog) in a Brit walking AGD. I was judging the OGD, and figured, "what the heck, I'm already there." The gallery at the Brit FT looked similar in make-up to the posted pic.

So if somebody wants to have a walking AA stake, and I'm there, what the heck. But that said, I prefer to handle from HB.

I haven't read all the posts after the pic, but my opinion? The good ones do it. And the AA dog, the truly good ones, not run-off/no handle dogs, are at the top of the heap.

Wenaha · Post by **Wenaha** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:45 pm

shags wrote:...Have you looked into USCSDA? Those are all walking trials.

I am president of the Northwest Region (CA, OR, WA, ID, NV) of US Complete Shooting Dog Assn. (USCSDA). We have held about 6-8 walking trials every season in CA. We would welcome a club to begin running these stakes in the other states.

These are all walking shooting dog trials run under rules nearly identical to the AFTCA. Placements and CH are with AFTCA and AF. These are both open and amateur broke stakes and require a classy shooting dog race to win.

You can PM me if you like, and we can get in touch.

http://uscomplete-nw.blogspot.com/

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:02 pm

If you want to increase entries and grow the sport, then you should be having a hunting dog stake during each trial where judging stops with the flush of the bird. You would pick up a lot of entries and once people get a taste then they would eventually move on to broke dog stakes or at least you would think they would. This hunting dog stake would get a trophies and would not be sanctioned.