Best quail dog for west Texas?

ewright · Post by **ewright** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:13 pm

I need some advice. I'm a cowboy on a large West Texas cattle ranch. I'm about 20 miles south of San Angelo. I need to know what kind of dog would work best for hunting quail in this country. It's rough country and our pastures range in size from 600 to 2000 acres. I like English pointers and I know that would probably be the number one choice but I think it would be too much dog for me. I may not get that many opportunities to hunt so I need a dog that will also make a good family pet and also retrieve doves. I was thinking about a pointing lab but I'm not sure. Any advice you more experienced gentlemen could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:54 pm

My German shorthairs handled their stint on the Mariposa Ranch well. But, my guys are fairly big running, too. I think you would be happy with pointers bred with foot hunters in mind. Bodarc Kennels in Ponca City, OK, would be a suggestion.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:19 pm

A good option might be a Vizsla. They work closer than the pointers generally, they have a thin coat and don't overheat much - and they are excellent family dogs. A GSP would be about the same as well. An english pointer from NSTRA type stock might be good as well. Both of our EP's live inside and are decent inside dogs (one is a little more hyper than the other, but she's 2).

I would not get a lab of any kind for your area - they just don't seem to handle the heat as well as the leaner pointing breeds. They don't have the stamina to handle a footrace on birds all day long - and they'd be difficult to hunt with if you were hunting scaled quail. They have too much coat for day-long hunting in south Texas. We take a trip to Kent TX for quail hunting annually and our English Pointer and Vizsla handle the heat well, our GSP gets a little hot, but she's got a pretty dense coat.

Dave Quindt · Post by **Dave Quindt** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:27 pm

T&T Bird Dog kennels are there in San Angelo, and run by sisters Tina Carles & Tonia Doering. They run an all-breed training kennel and do a lot of training for local ranches & outfitters. I will PM you their contact info. Give them a call and ask them their opinion; they'll be honest with you and regardless of which breed you finally decide on they can help you find a quality litter. They know the kind of dog you need out there, and who is breeding quality stock. Find some time to go out to their place and they can probably show you some of the different breeds they have in for training.

They were referenced in this thread as well: viewtopic.php?f=89&t=28085

FYI,
Dave

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:31 pm

I think an EP or GSP either one would fit your needs. For the country you will be hunting, I would probably choose the EP, but just keep in mind, they will both need plenty of exercise even if you can't hunt that often. If you give them the exercise they need, either one will make good house pets. JMO.

Charlie

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:36 pm

I've hunted west Tx and northwest Tx with my GSPs and they do great. It's hot in Texas to hunt with pointing labs, my GSPs are great housepets too and will retrieve dove as well. But I'm not biased at all!

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:13 pm

I think one of these would work just fine........! He's only 18 months old so he has a little more growing to do.

Click on thumbnail to enlarge........

Coveyrise64

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:20 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:I think one of these would work just fine........! He's only 18 months old so he has a little more growing to do.

Click on thumbnail to enlarge........

Coveyrise64

He is a looker! He about ready for UT?

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:29 pm

ACooper wrote:
Coveyrise64 wrote:I think one of these would work just fine........! He's only 18 months old so he has a little more growing to do.

Click on thumbnail to enlarge........

Coveyrise64

He is a looker! He about ready for UT?

Waiting on the water to warm up a little and will start the duck search work. Should have three ready for UT this fall.

Coveyrise64

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:44 am

Can't go wrong with any of the dogs recommended. Brittany's handle the heat well also, once conditioned and properly hydrated. My girl could hunt all day at 80 degrees. There are a couple guys in NAVHDA here that have Pudelpointers that are amazing in the heat. Gary Wright is near San Antonio - I'm sure he'd be happy to talk to you about how his dogs do: http://www.gunsmokegundogs.com/

As someone said earlier, all of these dogs are active and require regular exercise and training to be happy. Sounds like you've certainly got the land for it.

Good luck!

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:50 am

I would go with an English pointer. Never seen a dog take heat as well as they do.

snips · Post by **snips** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:31 am

I hunted W Tx with Eng Pointers and GSP's...They both do great!

Redfishkilla · Post by **Redfishkilla** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:50 pm

Brittanys are best.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:01 pm

Get a Llewellin or English Setter. They should handle the brush and terrain well. Most of them do not have so much hair that they get too hot either. Most are medium range, and will have good noses.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:13 pm

Na....Ep wouldn't be too much dog for ya.

Find someone or ask about someone to help ya get em trained up or better yet buy a started or finished dog and enjoy. You sound like you need a specialist and that's what an Ep is.

And when its time to put em up just blow on em and they're clean, no burrs and that stuff to deal with. All mine are nice calm dogs in the house and will try and make themselves lap dogs if you let em

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:16 pm

Pointers are built for that exact country. There really isn't any questions. Other parts of the country, you won't hear me say that pointers are better than other breeds(maybe the pineywoods), but West Texas is Pointer country.

Tejas · Post by **Tejas** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:01 pm

I've been hunting West Texas with dogs since 1983. I ran mostly pointers up until 1987 and gradually shifted over completely to GSP's by the early 90's. A big influence in your selection should be the type of quail you will be hunting. If they are predominately bobs then it's basically a toss-up between setters, pointers and GSP's. If, on the other hand, you will be hunting predominantly blues the choice should be overwhelmingly gsp's. They handle multiple relocations better and are easier trained to not pressure birds too much. I gravitated to gsp's because as a rule they are better natural retrievers, had better endurance and learned to pace themselves better than the pointers.

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:58 pm

big steve46 wrote:Get a Llewellin or English Setter. They should handle the brush and terrain well. Most of them do not have so much hair that they get too hot either. Most are medium range, and will have good noses.

If you go that route, do NOT look into the Setter breeder in Waco.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:27 am

Tejas wrote: If, on the other hand, you will be hunting predominantly blues the choice should be overwhelmingly gsp's. They handle multiple relocations better and are easier trained to not pressure birds too much. I gravitated to gsp's because as a rule they are better natural retrievers, had better endurance and learned to pace themselves better than the pointers.

Are you serious? Handle multiple relocations better? Easier trained to not pressure birds? But the best of all, HAD BETTER ENDURANCE? You have got to be kidding me.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:45 am

Where I live here in Oklahoma, we are in far western Oklahoma, it is more like Texas than the rest of Oklahoma. We are actually closer to Amarillo, Tx. than we are anything in Oklahoma and the country pretty much looks the same from the Kansas line 40 miles north of me all the way to Lubbock 5 hours south of here. I hunt and train on wild quail and pheasant year round except August when the rattlers and heat are too bad. My EP's are great on blues, bobs, and pheasant. Most of the quail I hunt are blues with some bobs mixed in but these are flatland bobs that run like blues rather than just sit like river bottom and piney woods bobs. EP's work great on these birds. The heat is usually anywhere from about 95 down to -30 with the windchill. I won't run the dogs anywhere north of 95 or south of -30. They do really well in the heat and tough country here which is similar to where you will be running dogs. The work fine relocating but on blues if you can bust up a covey they will sit for you anyway and if you can pin a covey in thick cover they will sit as well. In my experience with blues the only time they run is on flat land with sparse terrain but you get em in some cactus, yucca, or mesquite thickets and they will sit for you. The only problem I have found with blues is if you have a covey flush and they stay together then you have heck finding them again, they are like little ghosts. I have never seen a dog that has better endurance in the heat than a pointer either. Heck this year I hunted quail in temps. ranging from the 80's in November to 60's and 70's in February. We had a really mild winter here and did not even get cold weather till about the last week of quail season in mid February then the temps. got down to -30 and -40 for a couple of weeks but as I sit here today it is about 75 and sunny now with a call for up to 85 today and if I did not have to work later I would be out running dogs today. Also just as a sidenote where I live is right on the dry line and we get less rain fall and snow fall than some of the so called drier more arid desert regions of the country. It looks like dry high desert country where I live for the most part but flatter. I have never seen a dog with a better nose than some of the EP's around here. Not just mine personally but some of my friends and aquaintances as well. EP's just have a phenomenal sense of smell. If EP's can find birds here they can find birds anywhere in the country in my opinion. That may be another consideration for you, the temp. and lack of scenting conditions in west Texas, before you choose a breed. Good luck choosing a dog and if you buy from out of the area ,whatever breed you choose, don't forget it may take your new dog some time to become acclimated to the area and really start finding birds like you want. Dry, dusty conditions usually mean poor scenting conditions.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:57 am

I wasn't going to get into this, but. I've hunted the desert in Az. for almost 25 years. Hunted EP and GSP's. They're both great dogs in the dry lands. It becomes a personal thing who has had what for how long and never really hunted over truly good or great dogs. I can tell you about heat and what it does to dogs and they're smell. They have good days and bad, no two ways around it. I've owned some great EP's Elhew dogs along with Snakefoot along with some really good GSP's also. Figure out what you want and go for it. I've also hunted a ton of Blues, Bobs, Gambles, Mearns and Valley and Mountain. Have fun with what ever you get.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:09 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:I think one of these would work just fine........! He's only 18 months old so he has a little more growing to do.

Click on thumbnail to enlarge........

Coveyrise64

Nice!! nothin like a GSP

.......ruth

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:10 pm

ElectricShorthairs wrote:
big steve46 wrote:Get a Llewellin or English Setter. They should handle the brush and terrain well. Most of them do not have so much hair that they get too hot either. Most are medium range, and will have good noses.
If you go that route, do NOT look into the Setter breeder in Waco.

The only one I know in Waco I heard sorta went out of the business, but I'm not sure. There's plenty of places to get good Setters all over the country. Also, it's silly to pay more than four to six hundred dollars for a good pup, and I'm sure that's true of most breeds.

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:29 pm

big steve46 wrote:
ElectricShorthairs wrote:
big steve46 wrote:Get a Llewellin or English Setter. They should handle the brush and terrain well. Most of them do not have so much hair that they get too hot either. Most are medium range, and will have good noses.
If you go that route, do NOT look into the Setter breeder in Waco.

The only one I know in Waco I heard sorta went out of the business, but I'm not sure. There's plenty of places to get good Setters all over the country. Also, it's silly to pay more than four to six hundred dollars for a good pup, and I'm sure that's true of most breeds.

I didn't know that but IMO that's great. They treated their dogs horrible, my uncle bought 2 from them they flinched whenever they tried to pet them, and another one he got was very sick. I know of 2 field trialers who said they had dogs ruined by them. I watched them work their dogs and the guys were very e-collar happy, the kennels were filthy, digs had no confidence at all. I'm a amateur and I could've got more out of those dogs than they did!

ewright · Post by **ewright** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:13 pm

Wow guys thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it. I think it sounds like a toss up between EP and GSP. I like both. I also meant to mention in my post that I really need a short hair dog. I know myself and I'm not the kind to be messing with a dog's coat and all the matting etc. I like brittanys but the long hair would be a problem for me. Also all the coveys I've seen so far have been bobs. There may be some blues or scaled. I don't know. Bobs are all I have seen so far. I'm going to check out those two sisters in Christoval. That's just a few miles down the road from me. I think that will be the best place to start. I do need a started dog. Don't have the experience or inclination to train one. Thanks again for all the help.

Ed

bradtown · Post by **bradtown** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:16 pm

I live in San Angelo and run E Setters. All the guys I hunt with do the same. They do really well.
Also bought a GSP last fall....... jury is still out but so far so good.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:06 pm

ElectricShorthairs wrote:
big steve46 wrote:
ElectricShorthairs wrote:[qI. They treated their dogs horrible, my uncle bought 2 from them they flinched whenever they tried to pet them, and another one he got was very sick. I know of 2 field trialers who said they had dogs ruined by them. I watched them work their dogs and the guys were very e-collar happy, the kennels were filthy, digs had no confidence at all. I'm a amateur and I could've got more out of those dogs than they did!

Doesn't sound like the one I was talking about, but not sure.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:08 pm

ewright wrote:Wow guys thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it. I think it sounds like a toss up between EP and GSP. I like both. I also meant to mention in my post that I really need a short hair dog. I know myself and I'm not the kind to be messing with a dog's coat and all the matting etc. I like brittanys but the long hair would be a problem for me. Also all the coveys I've seen so far have been bobs. There may be some blues or scaled. I don't know. Bobs are all I have seen so far. I'm going to check out those two sisters in Christoval. That's just a few miles down the road from me. I think that will be the best place to start. I do need a started dog. Don't have the experience or inclination to train one. Thanks again for all the help.

Ed

Choose an EP then. They have a tail and are smarter.

Tejas · Post by **Tejas** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:13 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:
Tejas wrote: If, on the other hand, you will be hunting predominantly blues the choice should be overwhelmingly gsp's. They handle multiple relocations better and are easier trained to not pressure birds too much. I gravitated to gsp's because as a rule they are better natural retrievers, had better endurance and learned to pace themselves better than the pointers.

Are you serious? Handle multiple relocations better? Easier trained to not pressure birds? But the best of all, HAD BETTER ENDURANCE? You have got to be kidding me.

I've only lived in West Texas for 60 years, but I can tell by your avitar photo that you would know more about the conditions and have more experience running dogs there. As a matter of fact, between my hunting buddy aggie vet and me we ran 12 pointers and one GSP in the seasons from '87 through '90. The major difference between the dogs was we ran a brace of pointers for an hour at a time and the GSP all the time on our weekend hunts.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:26 pm

Funny, very often run mine 3-6 hours a day, 3 to 5 days a week, for a minimum of a 6month season. Pulled 6 weeks in the dakotas running nearly every day for a minimum of 3 hours a day, in addition to the 6month season.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:46 am

Pointer.

Rarely am I so sure about something.

Have it FF'ed for dove.

I have trained and hunted that area with my Britts and then did OK, but 90+% of the guys that do it for a living, the pro guides will have pointers. No other breed is better suited for that country.

Kinda like horses, in the same country I rode MFT, but the QH was better.

Go visit some guiding operations and ask the people that have to feed their families on the performance of their dogs and see what they are running.

Neil

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:50 am

Tejas wrote:
ElhewPointer wrote:
Tejas wrote: If, on the other hand, you will be hunting predominantly blues the choice should be overwhelmingly gsp's. They handle multiple relocations better and are easier trained to not pressure birds too much. I gravitated to gsp's because as a rule they are better natural retrievers, had better endurance and learned to pace themselves better than the pointers.

Are you serious? Handle multiple relocations better? Easier trained to not pressure birds? But the best of all, HAD BETTER ENDURANCE? You have got to be kidding me.
I've only lived in West Texas for 60 years, but I can tell by your avitar photo that you would know more about the conditions and have more experience running dogs there. As a matter of fact, between my hunting buddy aggie vet and me we ran 12 pointers and one GSP in the seasons from '87 through '90. The major difference between the dogs was we ran a brace of pointers for an hour at a time and the GSP all the time on our weekend hunts.

Actually Ken, you can't tell anything by my avitar. It was taken at the nation championship that my dog ran in. I've never been to that kind of country. But ill tell you where I have been, west Texas. I'll let you keep thinking what you would like and what you've observed. That's fine. As I said before. The pointer is made for that country hands down. Anyone without kennel blindness knows this. Oh btw, I co-own field trial GSP's so I'm being quite open minded/realistic.

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:56 am

I love my Brittany's but if I lived in West Texas instead of Kansas, I'd own Pointers. jmo

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:09 am

big steve46 wrote:Choose an EP then. They have a tail and are smarter.

Not so sure about being smarter but they do have a tail

.

Maybe you should just get one of each. A guy needs atleast two birddogs anyway and from my experience pointers and GSP's hunt great together. You may want to keep in mind that handling the heat naturaly will only go so far without being well conditioned. They are both great breeds and you can't go wrong with either.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:12 am

Tejas wrote:we ran 12 pointers and one GSP in the seasons from '87 through '90. The major difference between the dogs was we ran a brace of pointers for an hour at a time and the GSP all the time on our weekend hunts.

Where have I heard that before :roll: .

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:40 pm

Neil wrote:Pointer.

Rarely am I so sure about something.

Go visit some guiding operations and ask the people that have to feed their families on the performance of their dogs and see what they are running.

Neil

Well said , Neil !

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:22 pm

I agree, if there was ever a perfect place for an EP, West Texas is it. Not to say a GSP wouldn't be great as well. As far as endurance goes, that won't be an issue with a well exercised dog.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:28 pm

EP or GSP

Do you like tails or not is the real question.

I like tails:D

Redfishkilla · Post by **Redfishkilla** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:40 am

Brittanys are best!