Field Trial Brittanys ?

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:59 pm

If Birddogz did it and got away with it why can't I ? Why am I seeing so many Britts with High heads and (stubby) Tails and much taller then the standard then we used to see and why are there britts that have unequal facial markings similar to a setter or Pointer when say 5, 10, 15, maybe even 20 years ago you never would ??????? were there some cross breeding ?

ymepointer · Post by **ymepointer** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:24 pm

You had to ask didn't ya

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:29 pm

Its happened in all breeds...

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:32 pm

I can tell you that after Delmar Smith came along, Border collies were never the same.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:46 pm

ymepointer wrote:You had to ask didn't ya

WHY YES I DID LOL ! Why not ?

ACooper wrote:Its happened in all breeds...

I can totally believe that coop, but what I want to know is why does it have to happen, in America all breeds are judged off the standard of the EP why is that ? Why don't we judge the different breeds to there own standards like in European Field trials/ hunt tests ? And Again if he can get away with it why can't I ?
All breeds should be kept true to what they were bred to do and not make them more if not exactly like An EP ? A wise old man told me that Americans can't leave well enough alone and have to add style/ accessories. Why are so many Obsessed with Style ?

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:03 pm

Why are so many Obsessed with Style ?

Most field trialers are closet "blue haired show babes"...its really about the way the dogs move and look....and the way they "stack"

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:07 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:I can tell you that after Delmar Smith came along, Border collies were never the same.

That comment almost made me wet my boxers !

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:08 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I can tell you that after Delmar Smith came along, Border collies were never the same.
That comment almost made me wet my boxers !

Thank you for sharing that.

Seriously, the first Britt I ever saw was in the back of a truck at a rodeo in the 70s.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:31 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
gittrdonebritts wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I can tell you that after Delmar Smith came along, Border collies were never the same.
That comment almost made me wet my boxers !
Thank you for sharing that.

Seriously, the first Britt I ever saw was in the back of a truck at a rodeo in the 70s.

I grew up around britts and just regular farm mutts the brittanys my dad and grandpa had looked no different in size and color to the so called "freanch" brittanys that peoples a "breeding" today and none of the dogs i grew up with had papers or any kind of lineage to go off of they just bred the best to the best same as they did with there stock dogs no training was involved either just intro them to there job and they did it natural, and when i bought my fist papered dog I had to do all this training crap with her.

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs · Post by **Brushbustin Sporting Dogs** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:39 pm

Uneven face masks have nothing to do with crossbreeding. Markings are what they are. Have brittanys been bred to pointets, of course they had and to be quite honest they probably still are a few doing it to this present day. People want to win, some at all cost! It is what it is...

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:21 pm

If the Brit was crossed and I am sure it has happened it was with the English Setter. And about the time that supposedly was happening out west was the first uneven mask that I can recall showing up. Have had conversation with many of the old timers in the breed and that seems to be the consensus amongst them also. For years the color had to surround each eye and cover the ears but that got dropped from the standard some where near the same time.

I don't think you see as many over sized dogs now as you did in the past. It seemed we went through the phase where many of the field trialers thought big meant stronger and would last longer in the field. I think many of them have discover it just doesn't work that way and there are more responsible breeders now that look towards the dual type dog that can win in the show ring as well as the field trial and with more and more Dual Champions to pick from we continue to see people breeding to them instead of the few "horses" we still see occasionally.

I think you will find many of our Brits and the other breeds too that will go out and hunt for you with little or minimal training. I don't see where that has been diminished. And in most characteristics the dogs are better today for our type of hunting than they were years ago. We do see more style, a bolder disposition, less coat, and probably a slimmer slightly taller than many of the dogs of the past. The size thing has been with us from the beginning but it had become more pronounced after several generation of American breeding. But one of the foundation sires was over sized but he did throw mostly smaller pups and is in the HOF today. Another superficial change that has occurred is the lessening of the roan dogs while the liver dogs have become more prevalent.

Most of the changes I think we can call progress but there are some that kind of make you wonder. But as a breed we are on the right track by having so many responsible breeders who look at the total dog and breed as well as campaign the dog that still fits the Brittany standard and has the capability to become the next Dual Champion.

Ezzy

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:08 pm

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:Uneven face masks have nothing to do with crossbreeding. Markings are what they are. Have brittanys been bred to pointets, of course they had and to be quite honest they probably still are a few doing it to this present day. People want to win, some at all cost! It is what it is...

If some one wants to win that bad go with another breed leave pure blood lines alone !!!!!!

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs · Post by **Brushbustin Sporting Dogs** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:18 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:
Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:Uneven face masks have nothing to do with crossbreeding. Markings are what they are. Have brittanys been bred to pointets, of course they had and to be quite honest they probably still are a few doing it to this present day. People want to win, some at all cost! It is what it is...
If some one wants to win that bad go with another breed leave pure blood lines alone !!!!!!

Um... your preachin to the choir!! I didn't say to do it you asked the question I have my opinion.

What's pure blood??? I would guess that all common American Brittanys at some point down the line have a skeleton in the closet. One of the "great" brittany trainers bred pointer into his dogs and you can see it to this day although he doesn't compete anymore. Right or wrong doesn't really matter what's done is done and that's that....

Truthseeker · Post by **Truthseeker** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:49 pm

as a whole i think the britts have done well staying true to type. with all the DC's they have it has kept the britts looking like britts, for the most part.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:02 am

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:
gittrdonebritts wrote:
Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:Uneven face masks have nothing to do with crossbreeding. Markings are what they are. Have brittanys been bred to pointets, of course they had and to be quite honest they probably still are a few doing it to this present day. People want to win, some at all cost! It is what it is...
If some one wants to win that bad go with another breed leave pure blood lines alone !!!!!!
Um... your preachin to the choir!! I didn't say to do it you asked the question I have my opinion.

What's pure blood??? I would guess that all common American Brittanys at some point down the line have a skeleton in the closet. One of the "great" brittany trainers bred pointer into his dogs and you can see it to this day although he doesn't compete anymore. Right or wrong doesn't really matter what's done is done and that's that....

Prue blood to me is keeping the lines true of outside influence once a breed standard has been established, I'm not doughting your trueness/ or dedication to the breed or that some if not all "American" britts have some kind of skeleton in there blood line closet I just want to know why some people feel the need to secretly out cross to other breeds ?

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:49 am

I don't know, I for one want an SM that stacks up and runs like a ES, but has the disposition and looks of an SM? I understand being upset with people who hide what they have done, but I for one have no problem with the crossing of breeds as long as you are up front about it. If I had a lot of money and knew anything about breeding I would probably be inclined to outcross, rather than be confined to breeding whithin. I also know next to nothing about breeding, pretty interesting though.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:11 am

IF you want my two cents - it all comes down to competative dog sports. It pushes breeding a type and selecting for a type that is extreme in an area. If your versatile continental breed is competing with a pointer/setter in a 30 min or even an hour run, with upland work only often no retrieving even, then you are judging and selecting only on those things. My breed at least was more of a Jack of all trades master of none, and is being pushed to be master of some, albeight with the intent of bettering the breed. As long as they go from Jack of all trades to master of all trades

should be fine right!?

That said we have a brittany that is not very tall, and is tri color. She makes my heart race every time I see her run, so fast and happy. LOVE her! She could make me switch breeds if I thought I'd be lucky enough to get the same running style and personality next timeI brace her up with my one GSP who is slower, and the competition gets them both going! What a little team them make!

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:18 am

mountaindogs wrote:IF you want my two cents - it all comes down to competative dog sports. It pushes breeding a type and selecting for a type that is extreme in an area!

That's exactly it. Competition breeds......well, competition. Folks are going to push the limits to get a competitive edge.

That's funny Ezzy mentioned Britts mixed with ES's. I saw a dog the other day from the front that I knew was an orange and white Brittany...until the dog turned sideways and it had a long feathered tail. It was a little longer bodied than a typical Britt, but it's markings otherwise were indistinguishable from a Brittany.

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:28 am

AzDoggin wrote: That's funny Ezzy mentioned Britts mixed with ES's. I saw a dog the other day from the front that I knew was an orange and white Brittany...until the dog turned sideways and it had a long feathered tail. It was a little longer bodied than a typical Britt, but it's markings otherwise were indistinguishable from a Brittany.

Kind of like these?

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:01 am

There are always two sides to this particular coin.

I do not train, raise or compete with Brittanys but I do know someone who does. I do know that he bred the (at the time) # 10 brittany show champion in the country, who actully was a pretty fair hunting dog to a show gyp of his that also was a pretty fair hunting dog and the mating produced a Field Champion that is a pleasure to watch.

If you do your homework, there is no need to cheat. There are really good dogs out there in just about every breed.

RayG

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:54 am

slistoe wrote:
AzDoggin wrote: That's funny Ezzy mentioned Britts mixed with ES's. I saw a dog the other day from the front that I knew was an orange and white Brittany...until the dog turned sideways and it had a long feathered tail. It was a little longer bodied than a typical Britt, but it's markings otherwise were indistinguishable from a Brittany.
Kind of like these?

Those are the ones! Undocked Britts.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:57 am

I own Brittanys because 25 years ago, give or take, on a goose hunting excursion I had two or three glasses of bourbon and laid down in front of a fireplace at a lodge. I think for lack of a more sophisticated term I half passed out from exaustion and of course the libation. While I was lying there an acquaintances female Britt came over and curled up with me, and we spent the night on the floor. At the time, I was mostly a hound guy, but becoming more and more inclined to want a pointing dog, the friendly little female chose my breed for me...and so now I am neck deep.

To be frank, I do not care what some European poachers dog looked like or was bred to do, and my concern for how closely my dog resembles that standard and intention is irrelevant to me. The term breed warden is way too formal for my taste. Times, change and through selective breeding and an undetermined level of cross breeding dogs have evolved to what they are, and in the time tested process of supply and demand we have achieved what we need. That being said, times continue to change and information is more accessible on a broad and immediate scale, and science improves every second of every day. In all of this there are debits and credits and we end up with a working balance sheet.

DNA will close the loopholes, and I suspect we will still improve the breed through selective breeding, but genetics is mystery enough that only time will tell. When I compete, I want an even playing field but I refuse to whine if I am beaten, I cannot control what others do; nor do I care to. Dog games and dog breeding are not life and death, success should be measured by the goals and values you set for yourself. The dogs will give us all they have if we are capable of getting it; they just don't know any different. Why is style important? Only the individual can really answer that. Why do we shoot double guns rather than an 870? Why do we throw dry flies rather than fish with a worm and a bobber? I love competition and athletics, and I despise the behavior it breeds in humans. Dogs are a bit like art, we may not know what we are looking at but I guess we know what we like.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:02 am

Chukar12 wrote:I own Brittanys because 25 years ago, give or take, on a goose hunting excursion I had two or three glasses of bourbon and laid down in front of a fireplace at a lodge. I think for lack of a more sophisticated term I half passed out from exaustion and of course the libation. While I was lying there an acquaintances female Britt came over and curled up with me, and we spent the night on the floor. At the time, I was mostly a hound guy, but becoming more and more inclined to want a pointing dog, the friendly little female chose my breed for me...and so now I am neck deep.

I think it is funny that Bourbon brought you to love the breed, not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing hahahaha

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:06 am

AzDoggin wrote:
mountaindogs wrote:IF you want my two cents - it all comes down to competative dog sports. It pushes breeding a type and selecting for a type that is extreme in an area!
That's exactly it. Competition breeds......well, competition. Folks are going to push the limits to get a competitive edge.

That's funny Ezzy mentioned Britts mixed with ES's. I saw a dog the other day from the front that I knew was an orange and white Brittany...until the dog turned sideways and it had a long feathered tail. It was a little longer bodied than a typical Britt, but it's markings otherwise were indistinguishable from a Brittany.

The dogs you saw were probably Red and White Setters.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:51 am

gittrdonebritts wrote: I think it is funny that Bourbon brought you to love the breed, not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing hahahaha

Hey, there are more than a few marriages that began that way too.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:52 am

deseeker wrote: The dogs you saw were probably Red and White Setters.

Could have been. Anyone seen an "undocked" Brittany?

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:48 pm

AzDoggin wrote:
gittrdonebritts wrote: I think it is funny that Bourbon brought you to love the breed, not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing hahahaha
Hey, there are more than a few marriages that began that way too.

That's how i got married I have since stopped drinking

AzDoggin wrote:
deseeker wrote: The dogs you saw were probably Red and White Setters.
Could have been. Anyone seen an "undocked" Brittany?

I've seen pics of them in some European countries were docking is banned but never in person only pictures.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:41 pm

I have seen 4 or 5 undocked Britts, none were pretty, most Labs run with a much higher tail. One drug it in the mud. Not sure why, as most docked Britts point and run with a high tail (what there is of it), perhaps it is weight thing to a smaller body size.

I do believe DNA will correct these problems of cross-breeding, if people have enough sense to not breed or buy pups from a wonder dog from unknown and unavailable parents.

Neil

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:30 pm

AzDoggin wrote: Hey, there are more than a few marriages that began that way too.

gittrdonebritts wrote: That's how i got married I have since stopped drinking

I'm about the same (except for the stopping part). Hope things were OK when you sobered up.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:13 pm

We get our fair share of undocked Brittanys into rescue and Neil is right. I've yet to see one with an attractive tail.

When we walk our dog to the line, we all want to win. The difference is what game we want to play and HOW we want to win.

But ultimately the question for me is do I want to field trial the best Brittanys that I can? Or do I want to cross my Brittany with a setter or pointer, or buy one that I'm pretty sure is a cross, for the sake of winning?

And if that's the case, why not just go out, buy a nice AF pointer or setter, cross register with AKC and come kick my Brittany's butt that way? I have no issues losing to a dog of any breed who out-performed mine on any given day.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:43 pm

AzDoggin wrote:
AzDoggin wrote: Hey, there are more than a few marriages that began that way too.

gittrdonebritts wrote: That's how i got married I have since stopped drinking
I'm about the same (except for the stopping part). Hope things were OK when you sobered up.

Oh i just quit drinking the hard stuff I still need beer to get me by lol

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:09 pm

AzDoggin wrote:
slistoe wrote:
AzDoggin wrote: That's funny Ezzy mentioned Britts mixed with ES's. I saw a dog the other day from the front that I knew was an orange and white Brittany...until the dog turned sideways and it had a long feathered tail. It was a little longer bodied than a typical Britt, but it's markings otherwise were indistinguishable from a Brittany.
Kind of like these?
Those are the ones! Undocked Britts.

So, undocked Brittanys exist and you saw one. What place does that have in the context of a thread on accusations of Setter x-breeding? Why bring it up?

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:25 pm

So, undocked Brittanys exist and you saw one. What place does that have in the context of a thread on accusations of Setter x-breeding? Why bring it up?

This thread wasn't a serious one. Besides, when's the last time a thread actually stayed on topic. Not saying changing direction is a bad thing

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:28 pm

brad27 wrote:
So, undocked Brittanys exist and you saw one. What place does that have in the context of a thread on accusations of Setter x-breeding? Why bring it up?
This thread wasn't a serious one. Besides, when's the last time a thread actually stayed on topic. Not saying changing direction is a bad thing

Wonder who posted the pics of the long tailed dogs?

Ezzy

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:34 pm

Is the dog in the little neon sweater on point or taking a dump?

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:13 pm

brad27 wrote:
So, undocked Brittanys exist and you saw one. What place does that have in the context of a thread on accusations of Setter x-breeding? Why bring it up?
This thread wasn't a serious one. Besides, when's the last time a thread actually stayed on topic. Not saying changing direction is a bad thing

This thread wasn't a serious one

Where did this come from

Ezzy

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:23 pm

I have seen long tailed Brittanys...Plus PETA HSUS and some bleeding hearts are pushing to Ban tail docking and ear cropping and the AVMA is buckling in to it

I was floored when I called a vet over in Indiana who refused to dock tails but would do the dew claws. I asked why she said it was an unnecessary procedure which they wouldn't perform at their office then proceeded to ask me when i wanted to schedule. I told her their services would be unnecessary for my purposes and I would find a vet that would provide the services I was seeking.

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:30 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
brad27 wrote:
So, undocked Brittanys exist and you saw one. What place does that have in the context of a thread on accusations of Setter x-breeding? Why bring it up?
This thread wasn't a serious one. Besides, when's the last time a thread actually stayed on topic. Not saying changing direction is a bad thing
Wonder who posted the pics of the long tailed dogs?

Ezzy

I wonder who was talking about Brits with full, feathered tails in the same post as setter x-breeding. Those long tailed dogs are from the Norwegian Brittany Club site where tail docking is banned. Just providing a reality check for the foil hat folks.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:01 am

slistoe wrote: So, undocked Brittanys exist and you saw one. What place does that have in the context of a thread on accusations of Setter x-breeding? Why bring it up?

Is that what I saw? And you would know this how?

Funny, I was thinking this thread had "Brittany" in the title. I guess that was "why bring it up."

Why bring THIS up?

This whole thread was tongue-in-cheek, lighten up, bro. You oughta throw back some of that hard stuff that gittrdunbritts isn't drinking anymore. Ask him, he might have a dusty bottle in the pantry somewhere he'd give you.

Post by **slistoe** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:15 am

Ok, you saw a Brittany crossed with an English Setter and registered as a Brittany. The proof was in the tail.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:25 am

slistoe wrote:Ok, you saw a Brittany crossed with an English Setter and registered as a Brittany. The proof was in the tail.

I have no idea what I saw and it wasn't at a trial. I have no idea whether the dog was registered as anything.

Now get outta my head -

Edit - the dog I saw looked somewhat like this one:

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:03 am

"But ultimately the question for me is do I want to field trial the best Brittanys that I can? Or do I want to cross my Brittany with a setter or pointer, or buy one that I'm pretty sure is a cross, for the sake of winning?"

What if your cup of tea is something inbetween? The problem would be solved if those crosses were allowed to compete and people didn't have to lie to get them entered. I understand there is a lot of tradition but if there was a venue and the crosses in this venue were outperforming or performing on par with the pure breeds maybe it would take off. Not that I would try to create a venue or anything, just talking. If someone wants a Brit or a GSP or whatever that runs like a pointer, why wouldn't they breed to a pointer, rather than be confined to breed whithin the breed to acheive something that the breed is not. If you like Britneys the way they are that's great, if you don't why would someone keep breeding whithin?

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:14 am

What if your cup of tea is something inbetween? The problem would be solved if those crosses were allowed to compete and people didn't have to lie to get them entered.

If separating the breeds by name is a lie....why do it? Just have them be "Joe's dogs" or "Henry's mutts" and dispense with all the talk about breeds.

What gets lost in all of this, is that "winning" no matter what the deception is telling others (and the majority) in the breed to screw off. You can't breed dogs alone...sooner or later you will need folks, honest folks to work with. Those that put winning ahead of a breed or honesty are not your friends. In reality, such folks don't give a rats behind about the breed.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:26 am

Winchey wrote:"But ultimately the question for me is do I want to field trial the best Brittanys that I can? Or do I want to cross my Brittany with a setter or pointer, or buy one that I'm pretty sure is a cross, for the sake of winning?"

What if your cup of tea is something inbetween? The problem would be solved if those crosses were allowed to compete and people didn't have to lie to get them entered. I understand there is a lot of tradition but if there was a venue and the crosses in this venue were outperforming or performing on par with the pure breeds maybe it would take off. Not that I would try to create a venue or anything, just talking. If someone wants a Brit or a GSP or whatever that runs like a pointer, why wouldn't they breed to a pointer, rather than be confined to breed whithin the breed to acheive something that the breed is not. If you like Britneys the way they are that's great, if you don't why would someone keep breeding whithin?

It appears you have no understanding of cross breeding. If you cross the pointer and a Brittany there is little reason to think it will run like a pointer. For a matter of fact it won't run like a pointer unless it is built like a pointer and looks like a pointer. Don't think that woul work real well at a Brittant trial. But if you really want a dog that looks and runs like a pointer buy a pointer. That the only way it will happen.

Ezzy

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:27 am

JKP wrote:If separating the breeds by name is a lie....why do it? Just have them be "Joe's dogs" or "Henry's mutts" and dispense with all the talk about breeds.

Love it. "Henry's Mutts." How about "The Gentleman's hunting dog, needs no training, retrieves naturally, loves water, better family companion than your kids or wife..." Then you'd need to get a website

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:29 am

Your post was pretty unclear to me, didn't really understand what you were saying. There are other reasons to breed then winning. If someone wants a Brit that runs like a pointer but looks like and has the personality of a Brit, so be it. What is wrong with wanting everything. Some people like Brits the way they are, others want something else. Maybe they prefer the style of an EP and like the Brits as a companion. I do agree that crossing something for the sake of winning or profit or bragging rights and lieing to people about what it actually is, is immoral.

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:34 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Winchey wrote:"But ultimately the question for me is do I want to field trial the best Brittanys that I can? Or do I want to cross my Brittany with a setter or pointer, or buy one that I'm pretty sure is a cross, for the sake of winning?"

What if your cup of tea is something inbetween? The problem would be solved if those crosses were allowed to compete and people didn't have to lie to get them entered. I understand there is a lot of tradition but if there was a venue and the crosses in this venue were outperforming or performing on par with the pure breeds maybe it would take off. Not that I would try to create a venue or anything, just talking. If someone wants a Brit or a GSP or whatever that runs like a pointer, why wouldn't they breed to a pointer, rather than be confined to breed whithin the breed to acheive something that the breed is not. If you like Britneys the way they are that's great, if you don't why would someone keep breeding whithin?
It appears you have no understanding of cross breeding. If you cross the pointer and a Brittany there is little reason to think it will run like a pointer. For a matter of fact it won't run like a pointer unless it is built like a pointer and looks like a pointer. Don't think that woul work real well at a Brittant trial. But if you really want a dog that looks and runs like a pointer buy a pointer. That the only way it will happen.

Ezzy

I admit I know pretty much nothing about breeding. I do know you can't just breed the two and expect what I implied. I know you arent going to get the best of both worlds by just breeding two different breeds. I just don't think it should be so taboo to go out of your breed in pursuit of something. As for the buy a pointer if you want a dog that runs like a pointer, I want a dog that runs like one but I don't want to live with one, feed one, train one, look at one. I am over simplifieing things to make a point.

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:49 am

Well, Yea... any dog that wins, or works outside of the normal every day commonly accepted range or speed should be suspect! Every dog whose markings aren't just "so", points with grand style, or who is taller then, or shorter then what the norm is should be suspect! Any dog that is better then your dog, or that beats your dog is suspect!

Couldn't be decades of careful and thoughtful breeding.... has to be a cross with something!!!! We know anyone who is a field trialer is just out for themselves, for that $1.98 ribbon and for all that glory and money winning brings them. Yea, that's it!

Dreaded FT people, the ruination of everything we hold dear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuzz

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:18 am

Winchey wrote:Your post was pretty unclear to me, didn't really understand what you were saying. There are other reasons to breed then winning. If someone wants a Brit that runs like a pointer but looks like and has the personality of a Brit, so be it. What is wrong with wanting everything. Some people like Brits the way they are, others want something else. Maybe they prefer the style of an EP and like the Brits as a companion. I do agree that crossing something for the sake of winning or profit or bragging rights and lieing to people about what it actually is, is immoral.

But the point is you don't get a dog that looks like a Brit but runs like a Pointer. Just as you won't find a Brit that is capable of running like a Greyhound. Have you ever noticed that dogs have the physical attributes that allows them to do what they do.

Ezzy

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:33 am

brad27 wrote:
So, undocked Brittanys exist and you saw one. What place does that have in the context of a thread on accusations of Setter x-breeding? Why bring it up?
This thread wasn't a serious one. Besides, when's the last time a thread actually stayed on topic. Not saying changing direction is a bad thing

This thread wasn't a serious one

Where did this come from

Ezzy

right here, the first line of the OP:

If Birddogz did it and got away with it why can't I ?

i felt like this set the tone for the thread intially. appherantly i wasn't the only one.

This whole thread was tongue-in-cheek, lighten up, bro. You oughta throw back some of that hard stuff that gittrdunbritts isn't drinking anymore. Ask him, he might have a dusty bottle in the pantry somewhere he'd give you.