Just curious as to the explanation

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:38 pm

jayhawkj wrote: could someone at least answer the original question?

There is no definitive answer, but a great many factors that are involved in the answer have already been given in this thread. Since answers have already been given and you are asking for "the answer" I take it you aren't really interested in the real answer.

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs · Post by **Brushbustin Sporting Dogs** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:39 pm

Jayhawk maybe you have missed it but we have been round and round and round and round and round with Birddogz and everyone is sick of his BS!! So noone is going to take him seriously. This study that he is quoting is an old one that most have either read or seen its not new news and he isn't God for bringing it up.

When those dogs have been gone to the front for several minutes and then are found standing without birds in front of them your guess is as good as any as to why or where or what happened to the birds!!!

Jager · Post by **Jager** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:45 pm

RayG...I've never met you, don't know you and don't even know where you come from. But one thing is certain...I enjoy the heck out of your posts. I have 4 GSP's, 3 of which are shooting dogs, 2 of which are FC's, and 1 has a 1 hour championship. I also, hunt and guide with these same dogs on shooting preserves. You keep fighting the good fight man and I hope to see you down the road somewhere! It's folks like you that I enjoy listening to and reading from.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:48 pm

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:we have been round and round and round and round and round with Birddogz and everyone is sick of his BS!!

Not sure who your "everyone" is there, BB, that's a pretty broad stroke, isn't it?

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:49 pm

Jager has some nice dogs, and like many of the FT dogs (if that is what you want to call them) I have watched, judged and had the pleasure of handling - I would not bat an eye to take them hunting.

Why do we continute to beat this dead horse? The original article was written about 2 different venues and 2 different types of dogs. Big-time field trials DO NOT bean count - nor should they. That is not the name f the game. If you want that game - try another venue (that you I am sure would think is too artificial and your dogs are too good for - which we have yet to see you prove

).

Get a life :roll:

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:51 pm

AzDoggin wrote:
Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:we have been round and round and round and round and round with Birddogz and everyone is sick of his BS!!
Not sure who your "everyone" is there, BB, that's a pretty broad stroke, isn't it?

Sounds on the mark to me......

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:55 pm

I'm one on that EVERYONE list.Enough is enough & everything he posts on comes back to this same thing!!! :roll:

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:57 pm

slistoe wrote:
jayhawkj wrote: could someone at least answer the original question?
I take it you aren't really interested in the real answer.

unlike yourself, I don't talk just to hear myself. If I took the time to type the question then I was wanting someone to explain the lack of a legitimate answer! I think BB has offered an attempt at one.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:06 pm

Jayhawker
There is no answer more specific or accurate than the body of the text in these two pages. So.... What is your assessment of the dogs performance?

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:10 pm

Chukar12 wrote:Jayhawker
There is no answer more specific or accurate than the body of the text in these two pages. So.... What is your assessment of the dogs performance?

My assessment? That seems to be a poor percentage for the greatest dogs on earth! jmo

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:14 pm

jayhawkj wrote:
Chukar12 wrote:Jayhawker
There is no answer more specific or accurate than the body of the text in these two pages. So.... What is your assessment of the dogs performance?
My assessment? That seems to be a piss poor percentage for the greatest dogs on earth! jmo

Is that assessment derived from practical experience or as an arm chair QB?

And who has labeled them the greatest dogs on earth? Sounds like more sensationalism to make a point based in ignorance ........

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:27 pm

Please explain the reason all that information and the reasons given are not relevant or even legitimate.
Well you have certainly given a great assessment. Who said they are the greatest dogs on the earth. (Evidently BD and you because you two are closed mined.) I don't recall ever seeing that anywhere. A closed mind is a truly ignorant mind. :roll:

Have your dogs ever had a bad day? Have you ever had your best dog just get in a funk and the other dogs around that day just found more birds? Have you ever come onto your dog to find that the bird is just not there? Do your dogs stop to the flush?

I am not even a trial guy (other than a few walking trials) and understand this but then again I have common sense.

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:31 pm

birddog1968 wrote:
jayhawkj wrote:
Chukar12 wrote:Jayhawker
There is no answer more specific or accurate than the body of the text in these two pages. So.... What is your assessment of the dogs performance?
My assessment? That seems to be a piss poor percentage for the greatest dogs on earth! jmo
Is that assessment derived from practical experience or as an arm chair QB?

And who has labeled them the greatest dogs on earth? Sounds like more sensationalism to make a point based in ignorance ........

Are these not supposed to be the greatest pointing dogs on earth? And do you see the "jmo" beside the post? I was asked for my opinion (an assessment) and I gave it.

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs · Post by **Brushbustin Sporting Dogs** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:31 pm

Seriously people...

Ok we are talking about athletes here not weekend warriors. There isn't a one of us on this bored that can run a 4.0 40 yard dash if we could we would be doing something better than typing on this "bleep" board. Has Tom Brady thrown for 5 touchdowns in a game?? Yes. Does he do it every game?? No. You can't ask from the best from the top american athletes every weekend cause they are human. It's the same with these dogs they are top athletes it takes a far mor espaecial dog to run a true all-age race than it does to get a dog to take hunting on the weekend. Same goes for the NFL same goes for Ames. Ames i sthe superbowl for these dogs. They play every weekend to get a shot at the big "game" and if they are good enough they get a bid to go and try. Same as I'm not good enough to play in the NFL along with most americans dogs are the same some don't have what it takes to "go pro". Its a fact of life and it is what it is people.

I keep the dogs around that will "go pro" the rest I sell as armchair QB's and you know what the people I sell them to love them!! Al FT bred but didn't have the it factor and they make great hunting dogs.

We sit here trying to compare apples to oranges when in fact they are all just apples some just taste different...good or bad heck I don't know bite into whatever flavor you like and go with it but keep in mind you might bite into a different flavor at some point and like it as well or heck maybe you'll even think its better.

I do what I like cause I enjoy it and if you don't like what I enjoy thats your problem not mine my friend...

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:37 pm

Ruffshooter wrote: A closed mind is a truly ignorant mind. :roll:

You're barking up the wrong tree, I have no problem with FT games, I was just surprised at the low percentage provided by the OP.

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:41 pm

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:Seriously people...

Ok we are talking about athletes here not weekend warriors. There isn't a one of us on this bored that can run a 4.0 40 yard dash if we could we would be doing something better than typing on this "bleep" board. Has Tom Brady thrown for 5 touchdowns in a game?? Yes. Does he do it every game?? No. You can't ask from the best from the top american athletes every weekend cause they are human. It's the same with these dogs they are top athletes it takes a far mor espaecial dog to run a true all-age race than it does to get a dog to take hunting on the weekend. Same goes for the NFL same goes for Ames. Ames i sthe superbowl for these dogs. They play every weekend to get a shot at the big "game" and if they are good enough they get a bid to go and try. Same as I'm not good enough to play in the NFL along with most americans dogs are the same some don't have what it takes to "go pro". Its a fact of life and it is what it is people.

I keep the dogs around that will "go pro" the rest I sell as armchair QB's and you know what the people I sell them to love them!! Al FT bred but didn't have the it factor and they make great hunting dogs.

We sit here trying to compare apples to oranges when in fact they are all just apples some just taste different...good or bad heck I don't know bite into whatever flavor you like and go with it but keep in mind you might bite into a different flavor at some point and like it as well or heck maybe you'll even think its better.

I do what I like cause I enjoy it and if you don't like what I enjoy thats your problem not mine my friend...

Good Post!

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:07 pm

Jayhawk,

I think if you really want to know the first thing is you need to go observe a trial or two so we can talk the same language on a level field. I an not questioning your intelligence at all but just saying we have ti have a common understanding of what we are seeing and saying if we are to understand each other. This discussion is not all one sided. There are valid reasons and questions that ca be brought up on each. But what I do think you will see is a completely different style on the two sided of the debate.

Go observe and then come back and lets have a serious discussion of what is good and what is bad from both view points. And I think you will get your questions answered. There are points that deserve just that.

Ezzy

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:09 pm

These are the best pointing dogs in the world as determined by this chosen format...and most assuredly they will perform the best that can be found in that format and those conditions. However, the way one chooses to value those skills and accolades is entirely personal, is it not? I don't want trials changed, it is hard to win and harder to compete at a high level, and well...the bottom line is this, if I don't like this one there are dozens of others for me to try.

Crowds, horse traffic, bird pressure are all legitimate answers to the question. As for anyone's assessment who has not attempted to perform, those opinions will be cheapened. You may find the percentages too low for your liking, or poor; however, that means little as you have nothing to compare it to. You know...for those that don't understand baseball, failing 2 out 0f 3 trips to the plate must seem really poor when they remember hitting a home run every time in the sand lot next door at 8 years old...

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:12 pm

jayhawkj wrote:
slistoe wrote:
jayhawkj wrote: could someone at least answer the original question?
I take it you aren't really interested in the real answer.
unlike yourself, I don't talk just to hear myself. If I took the time to type the question then I was wanting someone to explain the lack of a legitimate answer! I think BB has offered an attempt at one.

The only reason you don't have a legitimate answer is because you have discounted all the answers given as illegitimate. As I said, you aren't really interested in the real answer, you simply want affirmation of your bias and you won't get it from well meaning folks who actually know something about the topic - because they will all be illegitimate answers.

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:22 pm

jayhawkj wrote:
Ruffshooter wrote: A closed mind is a truly ignorant mind. :roll:

You're barking up the wrong tree, I have no problem with FT games, I was just surprised at the low percentage provided by the OP.

Birddogz was trying to make a comparison of the research at Ames with that at Tall Timbers which on the surface seem similar in that radio telemetry was used to identify the location on birds and compare to how the dogs did, but that is where the similarity ends. The area in which birds were deemed to be "available" was different by a considerable factor in the two studies for one thing, which I already indicated in one of the "illegitimate" answers. Another is the manner of working birds and counting "finds" was different with the hunting of singles at Tall Timbers, as well as the manner of running the dogs was different in regards to the forward pace and allowable time for dog/bird interactions.

When you go out hunting wild birds what is the percentage of birds which your dogs find compared to those which are "available" to them? What is your basis for comparison to say that Ames is a surprisingly low percentage? In reality you have none. For all you know it may actually be a higher percentage than any of your dogs have ever scored on a wild bird hunt.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:23 pm

Here are a few pics from this years group of studs. I would say the avg. bird dog(Lab, weim., brit, gsp, etc...)doesn't look like these boys and girls. These are ATHLETES!!! And they point birds!

First pic. BTW this dude won it in 04'. So he's at least 11 years old!!!! You're 11 yr old look like that? Genetics!
http://amesplantation.zenfolio.com/p819813680/e2ad4bfa4

It doesn't matter what pointing breed you got boys. Qualify and come play.
http://amesplantation.zenfolio.com/p1007426929/ea64864f

Look at the hamstrings on this dude!
http://amesplantation.zenfolio.com/p558580264/e1fefbd23

They've got manners too.
http://amesplantation.zenfolio.com/p558580264/e2be457

Might not be your cup of tea. I get that. I used to be a HUGE hunter before I got into this game. I can take a trial dog and make him in to a meat dog WAY faster than, I can take a meat dog and turn him into these boys. I've shot hundreds of WILD BIRDS, with some great ol hunting dogs. But they aren't a pimple in these dogs behinds. I've played both games, as most have that trial. You just need to experience it. It's quite the drug!

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:25 pm

Goodness gracious people, if it helps you feel better, I want each of you to know that I think your dog is the best!!!

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:26 pm

I think its a little funny that when someone offers a different opinion they are quickly labeled arrogant or ignorant.

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:27 pm

slistoe wrote:
jayhawkj wrote:
Ruffshooter wrote: A closed mind is a truly ignorant mind. :roll:

You're barking up the wrong tree, I have no problem with FT games, I was just surprised at the low percentage provided by the OP.

Birddogz was trying to make a comparison to the research in Ames with that at Tall Timbers which on the surface seem similar in that radio telemetry was used to identify the location on birds and compare to how the dogs did, but that is where the similarity ends. The area in which birds were deemed to be "available" was different by a considerable factor in the two studies for one thing, which I already indicated in one of the "illegitimate" answers. Another is the manner of working birds and counting "finds" was different with the hunting of singles at Tall Timbers, as well as the manner of running the dogs was different in regards to the forward pace and allowable time for dog/bird interactions.

When you go out hunting wild birds what it the percentage of birds which your dogs find compared to those which are "available" to them? What is your basis for comparison to say that Ames is a surprisingly low percentage? In reality you have none. For all you know it may actually be a higher percentage than any of your dogs have ever scored on a wild bird hunt.

This is a fair point!

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:29 pm

I think of them more as conditioned dogs. Same dogs that we take to the field when we hunt but probably in better condition than ours and may have better manners but not necessarily but they do run bigger than most of ours through breeding and training. Just good dogs that are conditioned to be at the top of their game.

Ezzy

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:29 pm

I missed arrogant where is that one?

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:31 pm

jayhawkj wrote:Goodness gracious people, if it helps you feel better, I want each of you to know that I think your dog is the best!!!

No one has said or implied their personal dogs are the best!!!! You been smokin to many left handed ciggerettes????

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:33 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I think of them more as conditioned dogs. Same dogs that we take to the field when we hunt but probably in better condition than ours and may have better manners but not necessarily but they do run bigger than most of ours through breeding and training. Just good dogs that are conditioned to be at the top of their game.

Ezzy

The ones that win, consistantly are way more than, just in better shape. They are smart, they put themselves in the best position to find birds. As far as manners go, ummm yeah. If they don't, they are done for the day.

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:33 pm

Birddog3412 wrote:
jayhawkj wrote:Goodness gracious people, if it helps you feel better, I want each of you to know that I think your dog is the best!!!
No one has said or implied their personal dogs are the best!!!! You been smokin to many left handed ciggerettes????

No sir, I'll leave those to the likes of you.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:37 pm

Back to the dogs and not the people please.

Ezzy

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:39 pm

jayhawkj wrote:Goodness gracious people, if it helps you feel better, I want each of you to know that I think your dog is the best!!!

If my dog was the best I would be at Ames giving it a go right now.
But I like my dogs anyway and I always enjoy every time I am out with them - even the ones I have that aren't as good as the other ones I have.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:41 pm

jayhawkj,

The weekend of the 5th of March is Region 17 Walking Shooting Dog Championship. I am judging, I will have a few horses down. You are more than welcome to come up and use one of my horses. It is in Havensville, KS.

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:42 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I think of them more as conditioned dogs. Same dogs that we take to the field when we hunt but probably in better condition than ours and may have better manners but not necessarily but they do run bigger than most of ours through breeding and training. Just good dogs that are conditioned to be at the top of their game.

Ezzy

If only better conditioning were the answer!

jayhawkj · Post by **jayhawkj** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:44 pm

slistoe wrote:
jayhawkj wrote:Goodness gracious people, if it helps you feel better, I want each of you to know that I think your dog is the best!!!
If my dog was the best I would be at Ames giving it a go right now.
But I like my dogs anyway and I always enjoy every time I am out with them - even the ones I have that aren't as good as the other ones I have.

slistoe, you are now speaking a language I understand! Put me in a field following my dogs and I'm a happy man.

Post by **topher40** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:55 pm

I will also be at the region 17 Ch. Jayhawk, it may be a good chance to broaden your horizons a bit.

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:55 pm

slistoe wrote:
jayhawkj wrote:Goodness gracious people, if it helps you feel better, I want each of you to know that I think your dog is the best!!!
If my dog was the best I would be at Ames giving it a go right now.
But I like my dogs anyway and I always enjoy every time I am out with them - even the ones I have that aren't as good as the other ones I have.

That is a great attitude to have. Your dogs only have to impress you. But I do have to disagree with you about your dog being the best and being at Ames. There are alot of good walking/horseback shooting dogs and shoot-to-retrieve style champions that will never run there.

Jayhawkkj if you are anywhere close I would take Elhew Pointer up on his offer. A day watching any type of good birddogs work is better than a day doing what most will be doing.

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:25 pm

Birddogz,
You really know how to stir these FT boys up, don't care how much you hurt their feeling either, but I got to tell ya the competition at Ames has nothing to due with
actual hunting, although I agree IMO a dog who wins any kind of competition should also find the most birds. Got to remember Birddogz they even award wins to animals who have failed to find a single bird. Just showing records and asking the question in your 1st post is an insult to an FT boy, you just don't understand the social game my friend. You are just an ignorant, unknowing baffoon. You sir are a mere hunter, and in as much have no right to ask these kind of questions of the elite. Birddogz come due a little Grouse hunting with me some time, you ignorant baffoon you. You did not really expect an answer from these FT guys did ya.
RGD/Dave

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:29 pm

Hey TwinBro what took you so long?

Post by **topher40** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:36 pm

Let me see, this past weekend I hosted a trial. The winner of the gun dog stake, bird hunting dogs, had 2 finds. I know for a FACT there were at least 13 birds out there, and knew where they were. This same dog won the same stake last year with 12 finds. These are 30 minute stakes. Does it mean this dog isnt worthy since it competes? Come on guys, if you havent been to a trial shut the heck up, you have pre-conceived notions and not a clue. Come and ride, walk, or visit. Just come and educate yourselves before commenting on a subject you know nothing about. United we stand, divided we let the antis win.

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:45 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Birddogz,
You really know how to stir these FT boys up, don't care how much you hurt their feeling either, but I got to tell ya the competition at Ames has nothing to due with
actual hunting, although I agree IMO a dog who wins any kind of competition should also find the most birds. Got to remember Birddogz they even award wins to animals who have failed to find a single bird. Just showing records and asking the question in your 1st post is an insult to an FT boy, you just don't understand the social game my friend. You are just an ignorant, unknowing baffoon. You sir are a mere hunter, and in as much have no right to ask these kind of questions of the elite. Birddogz come due a little Grouse hunting with me some time, you ignorant baffoon you. You did not really expect an answer from these FT guys did ya.
RGD/Dave

I am truely envious of you for having all these wild birds to hunt. I do not have the luxury to alot of wild birds (alot of ground but not many birds). The pheasants are gone, the quail are few and far between. I love birddogs, so I had to decide to sell them or play the trial game. I will not be able to tell my kids and grandkids about all the birds like my grandfather told me. You dont know how lucky you are!!

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:50 pm

Hey Ryman Gun Dog lets here your answer.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:57 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Birddogz,
You really know how to stir these FT boys up, don't care how much you hurt their feeling either, but I got to tell ya the competition at Ames has nothing to due with
actual hunting, although I agree IMO a dog who wins any kind of competition should also find the most birds. Got to remember Birddogz they even award wins to animals who have failed to find a single bird. Just showing records and asking the question in your 1st post is an insult to an FT boy, you just don't understand the social game my friend. You are just an ignorant, unknowing baffoon. You sir are a mere hunter, and in as much have no right to ask these kind of questions of the elite. Birddogz come due a little Grouse hunting with me some time, you ignorant baffoon you. You did not really expect an answer from these FT guys did ya.
RGD/Dave

Let me ask, what did this post have to do with anything. You never stated an opinion or imparted any knowledge about hunting dogs but just tried to insult the people who enjoy field trialing. Bet you raised the opinion of RGD in a lot of people s minds.

Ezzy

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:03 pm

Birddogz,
You really know how to stir these FT boys up, don't care how much you hurt their feeling either, but I got to tell ya the competition at Ames has nothing to due with
actual hunting, although I agree IMO a dog who wins any kind of competition should also find the most birds. Got to remember Birddogz they even award wins to animals who have failed to find a single bird. Just showing records and asking the question in your 1st post is an insult to an FT boy, you just don't understand the social game my friend. You are just an ignorant, unknowing baffoon. You sir are a mere hunter, and in as much have no right to ask these kind of questions of the elite. Birddogz come due a little Grouse hunting with me some time, you ignorant baffoon you. You did not really expect an answer from these FT guys did ya.
RGD/Dave

I feel sorry for you. Is your life really that bad that you have to insult people and their hobbies in order to feel better about your own?

ISAYWHOANOW · Post by **ISAYWHOANOW** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:12 pm

birddogz???? I used to be in your camp. Blow the dust off of your paper work and go put that good old hunting dog in a trial. It can be very humbling and very rewording at the same time. If you don't want to do that then go out and keep enjoying your dog. ( Or dogs) But at the end of the day just remember its all about the dogs. Trials are a great way to meet people with the same interest. If you are going to go??? Pay the big entry fee and play with the big boys. Well worth your time and they are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. (Promise) After a few trials you'll figure out the( whyyyy) on finds?

Ryan.

you never know?? You might have something special at the end of the day to everyone else. Or you might get to see something special... Just good times either way.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:16 pm

I feel sorry for you. Is your life really that bad that you have to insult people and their hobbies in order to feel better about your own?

I'm not aiming this at you Brad, but some people on this site don't understand its a two way street. I do agree with some of the stuff Birddogz has said, but haven't came to his defense because he can be way over-the-top and I don't want to be associated with that. But if anyone says anything remotely negative about trialing they get crucified, yet those same people say just as negative things about hunting.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:17 pm

Birddogz gets crucified because it is a one way street
Who said something negative about hunting? We are almost all hunters?
I had to edit this...Nike this will get you in that camp quickly
Produce one anti-hunting or anti hunting dog comment produced on this forum. You cannot becasue it isn't there. Did you choose your words poorly or do you somehow believe that?

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:22 pm

nikegundog wrote:
I feel sorry for you. Is your life really that bad that you have to insult people and their hobbies in order to feel better about your own?
I'm not aiming this at you Brad, but some people on this site don't understand its a two way street. I do agree with some of the stuff Birddogz has said, but haven't came to his defense because he can be way over-the-top and I don't want to be associated with that. But if anyone says anything remotely negative about trialing they get crucified, yet those same people say just as negative things about hunting.

Can you show me where anybody said anything insulting about hunting?Im starting to think you have no clue its a two way street too.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:22 pm

Nike how many FT's have said negative things about hunting all the FT's I know hunt as well as FT. We do & enjoy both unlike hunters only that see FT as evil or for some reason a threat.

Believe it or not they are both fun!!

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:24 pm

It’s easy to kill birds went there are 50 in a 40 acre field, but how about 1 covey in 500 acres.

I do pheasant hunt occasionally but they are far and away my least favorite upland game to hunt, and if I was limited by my resources to only hunting pheasants I guess I would...but I would probably turn victimized, bitter and make a number of rash statements based on my ignorance.

Took about 1 minute to find an insult.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:26 pm

Birddogz gets crucified because it is a one way street

he started this thread for one reason only.