Setter icon Count Noble pictures, etc

[gunner]

The above photo of Count Noble's stuffed remains at the Bird Dog Museum and the drawing for the Llewellin club are of the right side of Count Noble, the two images most dog folk know.

I don't recall ever seeing any other images of Count Noble and that includes my American Field collection that goes back to the late 1800's, nor any of the sporting dog books in my library.

I was surprised to find a short sketch which included illustrations of Count Noble and his importer/owner/handler David C. Sandborn, images of both I had never seen.




The sketch was a part of a book written in 1923 by Michigan sportsman
Wm. Butts Mershon intitled Fifty Years Recollections of my Hunting and Fishing. Mershon and his activities is reserved for another thread.

David C. Sanborn of Baltimore MI who in 1880 imported from the R. Ll. Purcell Llewellin kennel in England a young setter pup that became a pillar of the breed known then as the Field Trial Breed, known today as Llewellin Setter. The pup was registered as Count Noble.
Sanborn was not very high on the then gangly pup but after an evaluation on prairie chicken on the prairies of Minnesota with the owner of the American Field; Dr. Nicholas Rowe he saw a diamond in the rough.
14 month old Count Noble ran his first field trial Nov. 1880 winning first on prairie chicken and quail at the farms of Col. A. G. Sloo near Vincennes Indiana.

Count Noble went on to a number of other wins throughout the midwest and midsouth which were becoming a hotbed for the field trial sport.

Sadly David Sadborn died while training dogs in Tennessee. Count Noble was sent to Sanborn's longtime friend, Capt. C B Wilson in Pennsylvania where the dog was retired to hunting and becoming an icon of the Lllewellin and English Setter breed.
Sanborn had a musically talented daughter and that Capt. Wilson contributed the stud fees from Count Noble to further her education and saw her turn out a talented concert pianist.

In the pages of Maj. J M Taylor's Bench Show and Field Trial Records and Standards of Dogs in America 1874-1891 I was surprised to see the amount of traveling by rail and wagon Sandborn did with his dogs competing in those early trials throughout the upper Midwest, Midwest, mid south, Dixie and the east. All though there were few trials at the time compared to later years, Taylor's book reveals that Sandborn's winning percentage to trials attended was far greater than any other handler through the period of years Taylor looked at.
On page 147 of Taylor's book he lists Handlers Records. At the top of the list above Dave Rose 40.6% winners to starters, and James Avent's 36.3% wts.
Sandborn's record was a whopping 77.2 % winners to starters.

I asked Lucy Coghill, librarian at the Bird Dog Museum to send be a copy of the rarely seen backside of Count Noble which she was kind enough to do. Compare the photo to the photo in Mershon's sketch.


David C. Sandborn of Baltimore/Dowling Michigan


The link to the Mershon Sketch of David Sanborn and his Llewellin dog Count Noble...
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi....;size=s

Obituary for Count Noble in the New York Times 1891
http://query.nytimes.com/mem....=slogin

[KY Grouse Hunter]

Love the legacy. I never saw the left side of that dog but I was told hed had a large black spot up around his front shoulder. A true legend.

[PowerPoint]

I bet all the people who demand open body dogs are gasping!..Im not one of them..

[gunner]

Ed Morgan sent me another "live photo" of Count Noble. I had seen this image before but have forgotten the source. It is of the Count's lighter side.
Ed's Western New Youk Pointer and Setter Club site...
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~emorgan/GBPDC.htm

Neil Mace reminded of the story that had been published I believe in a booklet called Count Noble the Great Progenitor. It related that BF Wilson decided to have the Count's body exhumed from it's grave a week or so after the dog passed.
Some of those taxidermists are a talented group.

[Don]

That was intresting. I know I could never have one of my dogs mounted after it was gone. Photo's will have to do. But Roy Rogers did it to Trigger and Bullet. Lucky for Dale Evans that Roy went first!

[Beauprix]

Correction needed to post/history of Count Noble by "gunner" of Wed. June 18, 2008:

All available information (i.e.: AKC Complete Book of Dogs; Death of Count Noble [New York Times, Jan. 22. 1891]) identify the owner of the famous setter Count Noble, following the death of his original owner and importer, Mr. Sanborn, as B.F. (most likely Benjamin Franklin) Wilson of Sewickley (Pittsburgh), Pennsylvania.

[Rich Heaton]

David C. Sandborn of Baltimore/Dowling Michigan

I have been trying to get Doc Favor to cut his hair like that for years.

[Shadow]

hummmm and the new and improved with the tial

wonder if anyone is breeding for the looks of the old days

[solon]

Were Count Noble's plates black or a dark brown? Is that clear from the record? The photos suggest it may have been brown.

Solon

[gunner]

Solon,

In my copy of Maj. J. M. Taylor's Bench and Field Trial Records and Standards of Dogs in America 1874-1891, Maj. Taylor lists Count Noble's 4 wins and his color in those wins as being B, w and tan, and breed as Eng. Setter. I suspect that means he was a tri-color as other setters listed in other various trials of the period were listed as being Blk. & Wht, Liv. & wht., Lm & wht., Blue or Orange belton.

Bill

ps: Solon, in reviewing Herbert Cahoon's articles on CN in old copies of the Field he describes CN as being Black, White and Tan. Cahoon mentions living a block away from where Count Noble was kenneled.

[gunner]

Thank you Beauprix for caching the typographical error. You are absoutely correct that Capt. Wilson's initials were B. F. I do not know for fact that Wilson's given name was Benjamin Franklin Wilson. The material I have on the man mentions him as B. F., Capt., "Dad" or "Pop" Wilson. He was the most instrumental figure in Count Noble's life after the death of Sandborn.

Herbert Cahoon wrote extensively about Count Noble in the American Field's 75th Anniversary issue of February 26 1949 and the Field's Christmas Issue of Dec. 2 1961. An interesting account of hunting over Count Noble, perhaps written by B. F., himself, posted from Oil City, PA, appeared in an issue of the Field dated Dec 31, 1881.

[Beauprix]

Hello Gunner and all,
I have been working hard on my research and have additional info to share, as well as a request for assistance.
B.F. Wilson was born BENJAMIN FREDERICK WILSON in 1830 in Ellesmere, England. He became a prosperous man of business and is known to the sport as the owner of Count Noble after Mr. Sanborn's death. Count noble died in 1891, B.F. Wilson died Jan. 26, 1896, aged 66. Interestingly, B.F. Wilson's wife, Susannah Roberts Wilson (b. 1848-d. April 18, 1919) was the owner of the first English Toy Spaniel admitted to the American Kennel Club's Stud Book in 1886, MILDMAY PARK BEAUTY, #4456 (English import). I have visited and photographed the Wilson Family plot in historic Allegheny Cemetery, Pittsburgh.

The focus of my research has been to write a history of the English Toy Spaniel to commemorate the 125th anniversary of AKC recognition in 2011. I am an AKC judge and breeder/exhibitor of English Toy Spaniels. I have been able to locate and contact one descendent of B.F. Wilson. He is 90 years old and a resident of Philadelphia, but unfortunately did not have photographs of B.F. or Susannah Roberts Wilson, his great-grandparents, to accompany my history. I would like to ask anyone to please contact me if they know of any photos of B.F. Wilson, or of his wife.

By consulting the property maps in the collection of the Sewickley Valley Historical Society, I have been able to determine the exact location of the Wilson residence, a large home near Sewickley, Pennsylvania, where Count Noble and the other dogs were kenneled/raised. The house was razed in 1972 for the construction of the new Osborne Elementary School. I am presenting a proposal for a historic marker to be placed at the site next year commemorating the Wilsons, Count Noble, and Mildmay Park Beauty to the Glen Osborne Borough Council in a few weeks. I hope to raise the funds for this marker through private donations. Any assistance or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! [Beauprix@comcast.net]

[Neil]

I was there when the mount was delivered to the Museum, later at the dedication his story was told, most all of which is well known. Except the part where he had been dead and buried for about a week when the decision was made to have him mounted.

I would not have wanted that job.

Neil

[gunner]

Beauprix,

There is a biography and an accompanying photo of B. F. Wilson in Maj. J. M. Taylor's Bench Show and Field Trial Records and standards of Dogs in America 1874-1891.

The entire book and images can be found online. It may as well have information on Mrs. Wilson's toy spaniels.

Bernie Mathys, editor of The American Field may have additional info. Wilson sent a number of reports to the Field from his hunting and trialing trips and it would take considerable work to glean them from early issues of The Field (American, and Chicago Field) I have some in my own library but none that I can remember regarding the Toy Spaniels; almost all regarding Count Noble and hunts over him.

Herbert Cahoon, a correspondant to the Field lived near the Wilson home in Selwicky PA and was a weatlth of info on Count Noble, the Wilson family and field setters generally. He wrote a number of articles for the Christmas issues of the Field. They should be easily obtained.



Bill

[Beauprix]

Hello Gunner and thank you for the reply! I immediately searched on-line and reviewed Maj.Taylor's book. I did not find a photo or biograhy of B.F. Wilson in that copy. There were good photos of the Major and Edmund Henry Osthaus, the artist who painted the great portrait of Count Noble which I get to see frequently at The Duquesne Club in Pittsburgh.
Is there a chance you saw the B.F. Wilson photo in some other similar book, or that this on-line transfer inadvertently did not include his bio or photo in the upload?
Anyone with any information, please post a reply. I am meeting with the Glen Osborne Borough coucil this Tuesday [Nov. 16, 2010] to propose the historic marker. I have collected very strong information in support of the marker but do not have photographs of Mr and Mrs Wilson, or their fine house [razed in 1973 for the new school].
Thanks again for your assistance. Wish me some good luck!
Beauprix@comcast.net

[gunner]

Beauprix,

Sorry, I had not checked the online version of the book to see if it was complete. Evidently not. My hardbound book copyrighted 1892 depicts an image of B. F. Wilson on what would be page 34 of the book. There is no page number listed on the plate but the very next page, page number 35, has Wilson's biobgraphical sketch.

Here is the sketch as it appears in the book...

B. F. Wilson

Mr. B. F. Wilson of Pittsburgh, Pa., was one of the prominent and leading men in public doggy maters up to a few years ago, when he ceased to take an active part. He was a warm supporter of field trials, and has acted as an oficer in different capacities for field trial clubs, and has served with skill as a judge at many field trials of the National and Eastern Field Trial Clubs. He was a great friend and admirer of the late D. C. Sandborn, after whose death Mr. Wilson took charge of the dogs of the estate in accordance with a promise made to Mr. Sanborn on the prairies, many months before his death. It is a matter which Mr. Wilson will not talk about, so it may be dismissed here briefly, by mentioning that Mr. Wilson sent the proceeds of the Kennel for years to the family, and netted several thousand dollars for them, which they never would have received but for him. It was truly an act flowing from a noble heart. Mr. Wilson was always a great friend and consistent admirer of the great Count Noble , a dog which he believes was not fully appreciated not whithstanding his great success and fame. Mr. Wilson is one of the business men of Pittsburgh and an ardent sportsman. He was a regular visitor at the chicken grounds of Minnesota earch year for many years during the hunting season, and was a lover of sport for its own sake.

I might be able to take a photo of Wilson from the image displayed in the book but my previous advice of contacting Bernie Mathys at the Field or Lucy at the library at the Bird Dog Museum at Grand Junction where Count Noble taxidermy mount stands could produce a finer quality image. I'm sure those folks could produce considerable more material for you.

Someone not to long ago told me that the stables of the old Wilson estate and where the kennels were located were still standing.

regards and good luck,
Bill Brink

[Beauprix]

The Count Noble commemorative marker proposal was approved unanimously by the Glen Osborne Borough Council on Nov. 16, 2010. I hope to have the fundraising completed early next year and the marker dedicated in a ceremony around Labor Day, 2011. Contributions for the marker should be mailed to the Sewickley Valley Historical Society, 200 Broad Street, Sewickley, Pennsylvania 15143. Thank you for your support.

One full side of the marker will commemorate Count Noble with the following information:

COUNT NOBLE
THE GREAT PROGENITOR

ACROSS THIS LAWN ONCE FROLICKED THE FAMED ENGLISH SETTER 'COUNT NOBLE' [1879-1891]
COUNT NOBLE SIRED MANY FIELD AND SHOW CHAMPIONS AND IS CONSIDERED THE CORNERSTONE OF THE BREED IN AMERICA. THE COUNT WAS IMPORTED FROM ENGLAND AND OWNED BY BENJAMIN FREDERICK WILSON [1830-1896], A PROMINENT CITIZEN AND BUSINESSMAN OF PITTSBURGH, THE 'IRON CITY'. THE B.F. WILSON HOUSE STOOD ON THIS SITE. THE MANSION WAS RAZED IN 1973 FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE GLEN OSBORNE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND PLAYING FIELDS. THE SCHOOL BUILDING STANDS ON THE SITE OF THE J. BARR HAINES HOUSE, LATER THE AUSTIN MURDOCK HOUSE. A LIFE-SIZED PORTRAIT OF COUNT NOBLE BY EDMUND HENRY OSTHAUS [1858-1928] HANGS IN THE COLLECTION OF THE DUQUESNE CLUB. THE DEATH OF COUNT NOBLE WAS REPORTED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES, JAN. 22, 1891. HIS BODY WAS MOUNTED AND DISPLAYED IN THE CARNEGIE MUSEUM, PITTSBURGH. SINCE 1999, THE COUNT HAS BEEN A PERMANENT EXHIBIT AT THE NATIONAL BIRD DOG MUSEUM, GRAND JUNCTION, TENNESSEE.

[The other side of the marker will commemorate Mrs. Wilson and Mildmay Park Beauty, the first registered English Toy Spaniel in the US (1886)]

[Beauprix]

Bill,
Thank you so much for checking your copy! THAT IS WONDERFUL NEWS! I have searched for well over a year now for a photo of B F Wilson.
I will contact Mr. Mathys and Lucy at the Tennessee museum a.s.a.p. The 90 year-old great-grandson of B F Wilson will also be thrilled. He has enjoyed my research and I will send him a copy of the photo as soon as I can arrange a copy or two. THANK YOU SO MUCH! And Happy Thanksgiving!

Your Friend in Dogs,
Rick LeBeau
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Member, Sewickley Valley Historical Society
[beauprix@comcast.net]

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Beauprix,
Thank you sir for your historic work on the Count, especially the part where you tell about Wilson and how the dog was retired and hunted over, may people today know little or nothing about what actually happened here in the Wexford area, where my Great grandfather and many other Pittsburgh sportsman hunted with Wilsom, behind the great English Setter.
Please Check your e-mail
RGD/Dave

[gunner]

Rick,

Well done. My only suggestion on the marker would be to give credit or to incorporate the word "Llewellin" with English Setteras Count Noble was the most famous icon of that strain of English Setters. The strain was simply known as the "Field Trial Breed" until G. T. Teasdale-Buckle, R. L Purcell-Llewellin's kennel manager asked that the strain be named in honor of his old friend and boss.

Rick you might see if there might be some of the Cahoon family stll living in Sewickley or there abouts. Herbert Harrah Cahoon was a sporting writer and correspondent for the American Field for decades. He knew the Wilson family and Count Noble intimately as his home was nearby.
Herb wrote of Count Noble...."Count Noble was, and has continued to be, the greatest setter dog ever imported into the US and that he stands in the forefront of the six early pillars of the famous Llewellin strain in America." Herb wrote that his oldest brother Sam witnessed the "true greatness as a wizard on prairie chickens in Minnesota and quail at Billy Beazell's in west Tennessee.
Herb wrote in 1961 that the Wilson house and stable were still standing but the kennel yard at the side of the barn was long gone. He described Wilson as having a very nice home place, adjoining Sewickley, overlooking the Ohio River . The place was of some size and made an ideal home for this world famous setter to pass his peak and his declining years. The house and stable wherein Count Noble and three or four of Capt. Wilson's gun dogs were quartered, are still standing (1961)

Of Count Noble and the type of dog he was... Cahoon wrote "It has been said that Mr. Sanborn was slightly disappointed in his new importation when he arrived from Llewellin's kennel in England in 1880, as he seemed a long gangly sort of fellow who looked a trifle down on the leg, and while his chest was round like a barrel, it had not dropped down to give him that living room or stamina department, as the boys call it. There was one or two things he loved in this big hobbledehoy fellow though, and the main one was his great scenting ability and his native smartness, brain power or sagaciousness, or all three of them, for it seems this British laddiebuck knew almost instantly his handler's spoken word and desire, and he took to handling game like a duck takes to water. Even as a youngster he seemed to be a demon quail dog, but it was not till they took him to the prairie states that they really learned his tremendous quality on game. For he took to handling prairie chickens second to no dog of his or any other day. The dashing, high class speedy way in which he handled his game caught the eye of any judge and warmed the cockles of the hearts of all who saw him perform."

Everitt Skehann wrote that "Sanborn could not handle or properly train a powerful, big-running, setter such as Count Noble. Thus, despite his fast start as a 15 month old winning derby, the Count only earned only four placements in his field trial career. Sanborn, who was soft on discipline and shared a great deal or warmth and affection with the setter, couldn't control him from running off, nor could he break the high spirited dog steady to wing and shot."
Part of the Count Noble's legend has it that when Sanborn died in 1883 the lovable setter became so despondent that he howled mournfully and had to be pried away from his fallen master's body.
Count Noble soon became the property of Sanborn's former hunting companion B F Wilson , a bank president from Pittsburgh. It was claimed that the sadness over Sanborn's death remained with the setter for several months and Wilson had to go to great pains to bring him out of it.

What ever happened, when Count Noble returned to the field trial wars that same year he was apparently not only cured but he was running bigger and stronger than ever- And although he tried very hard Wilson fared no better than Sanborn hd in his efforts to control the irrepressible setter. The Count was retired from competition as a barely three year old first year all-age before entering his third full season of trials.
But to Wilson and others who had seen him in action, it was obvious that Count Noble possessed the natural abilities and genetic characteristics that would enhance the bloodlines of field trial setters.
He remained in Wilson's kennel as a much sought after stud.

And the list goes on and on for the Count Noble progeny and descendants. The were the big winners and stars of their era and no other line of dogs came even close to matching them."

C. B Whitford, the winningest trainer and handler of that period wrote of Count Noble and his inherited temperament as a "high-couraged fiery type, bold and full of bird dog fire. They were fast stylish, brilliant performers, self willed and independent in their manner of hunting."

ps: Rick was the grandson you spokewith Walter Wilson's son? If so please contact me as I have some other things to share that would be of interest to the old man.
The Osthaus painting there of Count Noble is magnificient.

Bill

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Beauprix,
Rick I beleive you will find that the earlier original copy of the book has the pictures of Wilson you want. In fact that original was on a stand in the Carnegie Museum
for people to see, displayed just to the side of Count Noble, for quite some time when I was a boy. In fact I got in big trouble as a boy for wanting to pick the book up and
read it. The Pittsburgh Carnegie Library should have the original book some place, unless they moved it to Cleveland, or put it back in the original Carnegie Library in Braddock, Pa. Good luck finding the original and thanks again for all your historical efforts on both the Wilsons & their fantastic dogs.
RGD/Dave

[Beauprix]

Bill, I am aware of Count Noble's origins and will try to add some wording about the Llewellin strain or perhap mention his breeder by name, at least; unfortunately space is very limited and I cannot give as much history as the dog and BF Wilson deserve. I would like to mention Sanborn as well but it is not pertinent to our local history, and again, space on the marker is extremely limited and must be of general interest to the average passersby. I would erect a life-sized bronze of the Count if I could! At least, so far, we are getting this one memorial accomplished.

The great-grandson is Wilson Prichett, Jr. of Philadelphia; he is descended from BF Wilson through a daughter from his first marriage [I have not discovered the name of BF Wilson's first wife]. This daughter, Mary Wilson married Thomas A. Prichett of Philadelphia. Mary's sister [first name unknown] married William B. Prichett , Thomas' brother, and also relocated to Philadelphia. I have not bee able to trace any other living descendents, though I have tried for many, many months.

BF Wilson's son Walter James Wilson [1875-1941], like his father, an avid field sportsmen, married Mary Clear [1876-1955] and they are buried at Sewickley Cemetery along with one daughter Helen [1904-1939]. Helen's tombstone states that she was the "Wife of Robert T. Thompson", but he is not buried there with them, and I do not know if they had any children. I do not know whtether Walter had any other children. Another BF Wilson son, John Bond Wilson, was a resident of Canton, Ohio but I have not been able to trace his marital status or whether he had any children. A daughter, Suzy [1887-1936], married Charles Earl Whitney and relocated to Washington, DC, but had no children, according to a great-niece I was able to contact. My interest in the descendents of BF Wilson is only to locate any possible photographs of BF Wilson or his 2nd wife, Susannah Roberts Wilson.

I would be very happy to discuss my research in detail as well as learn of any items of interest you would care to share with me. I have contacted Bernie Matthys and he is sending a copy of the photo of BF Wilson from Maj. Taylor's book. A local sportsman has a photo of several gentlemen standing with the Count, and we hope to identify BF Wilson if he is in this photo. Previously, I had not discovered any photographs, so I am thrilled! I am losing hope of finding any photos of Susannah Roberts Wilson.
-Rick

[Beauprix]

Happy New Year GDF friends and Count Noble admirers!

Plans for the Count Noble Historic Marker are proceeding with growing interest and increased local enthusiasm here in the Pittsburgh area. The marker will be placed as near to the former site of the B. F. Wilson home in Glen Osborne Borough as possible.

This past Sunday, January 23, 2011, a feature article by Marylynne Pitz appeared in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette on the front page of Sect. B {The Region}. The article is entitled "HONORING COUNT NOBLE" and may be viewd on-line at:
Post-Gazette.com [click LIVING]. I'm sorry I do not know how to post the link to the article here.

I will post updates as the project nears completion or new and important information is discovered. I want to invite regional English and/or Llewellyn Setter enthusiasts to attend the dedication ceremony, hopefully to take place over Labor Day weekend, 2011. It would be nice to have living examples of the breed present for the media coverage and for the spectators. Please consider carefully which individual dogs would tolerate this type of gathering and expect warm summer weather. There could be 20 people or 100 people in attendance. I will get a better feel for this later.

Donations for the marker are being accepted by the Sewickley Valley Historical Society, 200 Broad Street, Sewickley, PA 15143. Any amount would be greatly appreciated and donors will be listed in a printed dedication program for the ceremony. Please specify that the contribution is for the Count Noble Historic Marker. Contributors will be mailed an acknowledgement for tax purposes from the offices of the Sewickley Valley Historical Society.

Thank you for your interest and encouragement.

Best Regards,

Richard LeBeau

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Richard,
I have the book you wanted to review, to see if the pictures you wanted, happen to be in the book, sorry for the long delay in contacting you.
I had a major heart attack and have been recovering. Give me a call at the Churchill home when you have time.
RGD/Dave

[gunner]

Count Noble article appearing in recent Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11023/1119853-51.stm

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Richard,
Thanks so much for all the effort, the article in the paper was just great, especially where they tell how the Count was not just a big running dog, but a dog to hunt behind, for the men who lived in the Pittsburgh area. The story about the little girl visiting the Museum and saying, look there is a dog in there, and the older man saying little girl that is not just a dog, that is Count Noble, is exactly how all the sportsman of Pa felt about our home town legend. To those of us older men who grew up listening to our Grandfathers speak of hunting behind this great animal, the loss of this musem exhibit to the bird dog museum, was more than aggravating. Giving away a home town legend and treasure was not right and many think there was a clause in the donation documents to the Carnegie musuem, that actually forbid this very event. Richard you did a great job sir, many thanks for all your efforts. We will have lunch sometime, I promise, if you and your father would like to come Grouse hunt
some time, at our place in Potter/Tioga you are welcome any time you can make it.

RGD/Dave

[big steve46]

Joe Noe of "America's Setter Llewellin" is a pretty good historian and has lots of pictures.

[gunner]

"In God We Trust, all others bring data!"

I think Lloyd pretty much summed up the parallel discussion regarding Count Noble that we had over at the Bird dogs and Doubles bulletin board.
Beans, I'm sorry you decided to abandon that board. You were simply asked to supply some verify able evidence to the claims you made.

Count Noble probably had as much ink print regarding his life as any sporting canine of the last century. Fortunately much of it is still available to read for those that have a sincere and genuine interest in the dog.

You continue to dispute those folks long gone, that actually trained, handled, campaigned in field trials, judged and hunted over Count Noble and left a legacy of the dog in written documents that are still available.
The facts are that Count Noble WAS NOT a close working Pennsylvania mountain grouse hunting dog as you have long suggested in the many threads you author regarding him. His time in Pennsylvania was pretty much strictly as a stud dog, or when he passed, after laying in a ground buried for a week, he was dug up, cleaned up, mounted by a very competent taxidermist and then spent nearly the next century in the marbled dinosaur hall at the Carnage Museum. Many a museum curator, trustee and visitor alike wondered why the museum was obligated to exhibit the old dog's hide there. The Bird Dog Museum in Grand Junction Tennessee is where he should stay. What took them so long to ship it there?

Beans, have you read accounts by your old Pennsylvanian scribe, setter enthusiast, Sage of Ben Avon, Herbert H. Cahoon. Cahoon wrote of CN "If your field trial setter does not go back to the great Count Noble, then he isn't a field trial setter." Cahoon wrote a number of articles about Count Noble for the American Field weekly newspaper. The Field's 75th Anniversary Issue of Feb. 26th 1949, and the Christmas Issue of Dec. 1961 had interesting lengthy articles about CN by Cahoon. In fact Cahoon's older brother, Sam, and Dr. Caldwell attempted to hunt over the Count in Greene Co. PA. Evidently CN was too much dog for those men and that country. CN was described by another Pittsburgh sport, the great competitor shooter, and National Championship Field Trial judge, Winfield Scott Bell as the greatest prairie grouse and quail dog he'd ever seen. Bell, his brother coal magnate John Bell, and field trial judge Capt. B F Wilson would take CN to John Bell's quail preserve near the west Tennessee town of Baldwin. These gentlemen would also spend part of the shooting season shooting prairie chicken on the wheat stubble and prairies of Minnesota. The Dec. 31st 1881 issue of the American Field describes a hunt by Mr. Bell and Wilson over CN . CN was described as a "demon quail dog" that "handled game in a dashing, high-class speedy way that caught the eye of any field trial judge and warmed the cockles of the hearts of all who saw him perform."

Cahoon wrote in 1961 "Asa Bell kept dogs for Capt. Wilson and Win Bell, and oversaw Wilson's home kennel, where he kept CN, Red Light, and a couple of favorite shooting dogs. The house and stable are still standing, just as they were in CN's day. Of course the kennel yard at the side of the barn is long gone."
Wilson attempted to compete with CN in some later trials however "he was running bigger and stronger than ever-as free and as wild as the wind" he never competed again and was retired as stud. He was the leading setter sire of his day and fountain head of the what was known as the "Field Trial Breed" now known as the Llewellin setter.

Here's a description of a hunt over Count Noble on one of his hunts near Baldwyn, TN. by one of the Oil City, Pennsylvania gunners.
"It was the Count's turn now, and with a word of caution he is cast off. "I wish he would make a flush, "says Sandborn, " and I'll teach the "bruiser" to go slower". Three bare fields are now passed over. We have crossed into a great ragweed field that is broken in two by a branch, and beyond an immense sweep of stubble is just to his taste, and when he gets the word he does it like a bolt of lightning. There is no darting back and forth. There is no flying away and back again, over already beaten ground. As we see him go over a knoll he drops on a point, and judging from the awful gait he was going , we almost fear to go to him lest he has broken his neck in stopping."

more..."We were in an immense cornfield . Count was covering the ground with his giant strides like a warhorse, in a moment he has swept out of sight. We wait and when we should see him again he does not appear. We wait but he does not come. We separate, and proceed to hunt him. Over a fence and into an adjoining cotton field and down the field a hundred yards we see Nell's flag flying and as we get nearer we find Count hugging the ground, a few feet ahead of him a bevy of quail are lying."

While some corrections have been made to the online newspaper article I submitted I found what I believe other errors, and in the spirit of newspaper accuracy I offer these corrections...

"After Mr. Sanborn died, Mr. Wilson purchased Count Noble"
All other accounts by various authors suggest that while Sanborn's health was failing he asked his friend Wilson to take Count Noble. No mention ever of a purchase.

"The term Llewellin setter was coined by Americans," said Keith Smith, an Englishman from Derbyshire who, with his wife, Tessa, raises the breed at his kennels, Lynnhill Llewellin Setters in Saegertown, Crawford County."
Albert Hochwalt wrote in his 1922 Birddogs and their History and Accomplishments that G. Teasdale- Bucknell, the long time British kennel manager for Llewellin petitioned to have his old boss and friend remembered by naming the strain of setters known as the "field trial strain" to be known as Llewellins.

"Mr. Smith said Count Noble was not known as an outstanding bird dog, but his prepotency -- the ability to pass on his best traits -- made him famous."
I'd say that the dog was fairly outstanding by winning all the trials he was entered. Correspondance by those that actually hunted over him would seem to suggest him as considerable above average in their praises. Probably the most expensive stud dog of his time.

"Llewellin setters were recognized as a separate breed in 1904 by the Field Dog Stud Book, which is maintained by an American publisher in Chicago"
Actually the Field Dog Stud Book, recognized the strain in 1902 and is maintained by the American Field Publishing Co.

The original discussion regarding Count Noble can be read in the archives of Bird Dogs and Doubles bulletin board.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Gunner,
What you do not know is that I did supply that info to the owner only, and when I advised the owner of the forum, he had to keep the info confidential as to my clients identites, or I would bring law suit against him, and his buddies on his board for slandering my business, he decided I should not participate any more. Somebody misrepresented to you and others how I left that forum, I never abandoned anything. As far as the Counts history goes Richard provided the truth, not the story that FT people like to tell. Nobody said the count was only a close working dog, that is garbage, they used him for hunting after her was retired from FT, which for some reason the FT people want to write out of reality. The truth about what actually happened here in Pa after he was no longer a FT dog was just unpublished, so you FT type people say it did not happen, and that is pure crap. I would not take anything written on that forum as historical fact, it was just a discussion where the FT people tried to make their point, so they got a bunch of FT people to chim in as they usually do, none of those people lived here in the Pittsburgh area, and had only the news paper articles and other document to look at, which are only an over view of the Counts full life. When I tried to relate what happened here in the Pittsburgh area with the Count, I was attacked for doing so. It simply did not jive with their views of the Count. This is another reason why the Count should never have been moved, from the Carnegie Museum, which is his rightful home, where he was donated with assurances that he would be displayed, and if the original donation documents ever surface, the Count may very well have to be returned to the Pittsburgh, Pa Carnegie Museum. Many Pa sportsman believe
the Count was not legally moved out of the Carnegie Museum. When was the last time a Museum gave away a national treasure, especially the Carnegie Museum.
Loaned maybe but never given away.
RGD/Dave

[gunner]

None are so blind as those that refuse to see...


"As far as the Counts history goes Richard provided the truth"

Thank you Beans (RGD), I tried to help Richard with genuine honest material written by those individuals, all verify able, that were intimately familiar with Count Noble ( Sanborn, Wilson himself, family, friends, neighbors and others). Far from the delusional crap you've posted at most of the sites you've visited over the years. Limit your obvious field trial bias, be honest and gain some respect. Sue me Beans.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Gunner,
My bias for FT type people is well known, and its because of the arrogant people like you that it has been formed, FT people seem to think they have the right to insult
hunters and hunting dogs, because they play silly group social games with their animals. In reality there are 10 times as many hunters as there are FT people, even with the overlap, as some FT people do hunt. Many hunters have the same opinions that I do when it comes to FT people, FT type people try to intimidate hunters who do not hold the same opinions they do, they get their minyans together on forums, moving from forum to forum, playing the intimidation game, degrading many forums into nonparticipation. Recently I ask a good member of this forum not to leave the forum, because of this very thing. I hope he decided to stay.
RGD/Dave

[gunner]

Take your medicine Beano. Your thought process is warped.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Gunner,
Still the same old arrogance, nothing changes with people like you. Try intimidating someone else cause its not ever going to work with me.
RGD/Dave

[gunner]

Thoughtful response Beano, Ryman Gun Dog.

You conveniently forget that practically all field trial folk were or are bird hunters; most are knowledgeable, top notch dog folk and as hard as you and your buddy Voutsi try to polarize the group with the silly posts you make the more ignorant you look.

Field trialers just thrive on abusing you two, sue them too. Intimidation me a$$, you guys get yourself kicked off the boards all by your own stupid remarks.

What the heck do you know about trials? You've never attended one, trained a finished dog or raised a pup that you could compete in the grouse woods or anyplace else for that matter. Oh, yes, we've heard all about your grouse dog/ hunter training operation and the great breeding and training successes that come down off your mountain.

By the way I have very close ties to Pittsburgh, Clarington, Marrienville and other areas of Pennsylvania.

[Beauprix]

Gentlemen, I would like to clarify that I only shared the photo of B F Wilson, and some biographical info about him, and did not supply any historical information or personal opinions of Count Noble, other than to claim he was "the Man-o-War of English Setters" to the Post-Gazette writer for the article. I am not exactly certain how she got her information other than what I gave her during our meeting. I did not discuss Llewellyn Setters or Count Noble's career or hunting capabilities with the writer.

There can be no disagreement that the dog is rightfully famous; there are hundreds of pages about the dog, and next to nothing about B F Wilson; I am trying to find out as much about B F Wilson as I possibly can.

Of all the essays and opinions I have read about Count Noble, I like the history penned by Walter J. Wilson [1875-1940], the son of B F Wilson, the best, and highly recommend his discussion to all interested persons. He shares remembrances of his father, hunting with his father and the Count, and obviously, best of all, about knowing the dog in a very personal way as a family house dog. A keen sportsman like his father, Walter Wilson's essay relates reliable, personal observations and a fair assessment of the dog in the field, praising Count Noble's strengths as well as explaining what were unique challenges concerning his work in the field.

Anyone with photographs of B F Wilson or of his family, please contact me. Again, I thank you all for your interest and assistance, and I regret that any disagreement should arise due to my project to honor the memory of Count Noble with a marker in the town where he lived with the Wilsons.

[Beauprix]

I apologize, but I need to post a correction to my previous post:
Walter J. Wilson was born Aug. 25, 1875 and died March 25, 1941, NOT in 1940, as posted above. He is buried in Sewickley Cemetery, with his wife Mary Clear Wilson [b. Sept. 16, 1876, Washington, DC; d. Nov. 17,1955] and with their only child, a daughter, Helen Wilson [Mrs. Robert T. Thompson; she was born about 1905; d. March 15,1939]. She died at New Brunswick, New Jersey. Helen was married to Robert Thomas Thompson, a native of North Carolina and Associate Professor of History at Rutgers University. He was born Aug. 13, 1896 and died April 2,1945 at New Brunswick, NJ and is buried elsewhere, most likely North Carolina. I do not know whether Helen and Robert had any children but I am trying to find out. If anyone can help me or can suggest any possible leads, again, please do contact me. Thank you!

[Beauprix]

Hello Forum!
I apologize for asking again for your help, but I am running out time and of places to turn. The hot topic for today is a Wilson family portrait of an unidentfied man belonging to the 91 year-old great-granddaughter of B F Wilson, born in 1919. She was named as a beneficiary in her great uncle Walter Wilson's will {1875-1941}, so we think it might be of him, but she just isn't sure anymore. She has either forgotten or never really knew the man's identity. She is the granddaughter William H. Wilson {1855-1896}, son of B F Wilson {1830-1896}. William died only a few months in the same year after his father. Jacob Hull Wilson {1884-1938}, son of William H. Wilson, was her father. William and Walter Wilson were half-brothers. Walter was quite wealthy, co-owner of Cooke-Wilson Electrical Supply Co., and an avid sportsman, and resident of Sewickley, PA. He was elected President of the Pennsylvania Field Trail Association about 1915, and served as an esteemed sporting judge. There could possibly be photos of him in old sporting magazines or personal scrapbooks. If we could find an image of Walter Wilson, we might be able to identify the portrait, if it is indeed of Walter Wilson. Does anyone have any idea where the records/archives from the Pennsylvania Field Trial Association might be located today? I should add that I am in the process of writing a book specifically about B F Wilson and Count Noble, and any letters, photographs, or suggestions would be appreciated. The book will be published by the Sewickley Valley Historical Society, hopefully in Sept. 2011. Please help me to create the best possible book of interest and for the future reference of historians. The book will naturally cover the origins of Count Noble, his breeder Richard Llewellin Purcell Llewellin {1840-1925} and original owner in the US, D.C. Sanborn {b. ? -d. 1881? }. Does anyone know the actual dates for Mr. Sandborn or of a portrait of Mr. Llewellin? I will gladly acknowledge anyone in the book or of course respect requests for anonymity.
Thank you all very much for your assistance and support.
Your Friend in Dogs,
Rick LeBeau

[Beauprix]

Hello, could anyone please give a source for the unverified report that Count Noble was dead and buried some days before he was exhumed and mounted? Thank you!