A question for the Brittany breeders.

[A/C Guy]

I received an inquiry to buy a puppy from a nice lady that is handicapped. She wants to train a Brittany female as a service dog. She doesn't want a lab or golden due to their size. She also is interested in training for agility trials. I know the Brittany's excel at agility training and trials, my concern is using a Brittany for a service dog. What are your thoughts? We already discussed that the breed requires regular outdoor activity. So the dog will not end up in an apartment / condo environment. The dog will get a minimum of 90 minutes of quality outdoor time to exercise and burn of energy. Have you any knowledge of a Britt being used as a service dog? If so, how did the dog fare?
Thanks

BTW, her last pup was a Pomeranian that she trained and is among other qualifications has been certified as a seizure dog.

[Karen]

I think one of Robin Tomasi's (Copely Brittanys) Brittanys is a service dog. I know she has a website out there somewhere. You may want to contact her privately with questions. My biggest concern would be what happens to the dog if they don't work out as a service dog.

[A/C Guy]

.... My biggest concern would be what happens to the dog if they don't work out as a service dog.

We should have that same concern if a pup doesn't work out as a trials champ or world class hunter. There are always going to be dogs that do not live up to the buyers unrealistic expectations. So we need to screen
all buyers to make sure the dog is going to be not discarded if it does not exceed all the buyers goals.

[Karen]

The issue with someone needing a service dog is they NEED a service dog....not a house pet. A failed hunting dog can double as a bed warmer. A failed service dog may need to go to make room for another prospect. THAT's all I was trying to say.

[AzDoggin]

Interesting question A/C and I will be following this thread to see what comes of it over here.

Here is some basic information on Service Dogs http://sdog.danawheels.net/

At minimum, IMO, these dogs should qualify for the Canine Good Citizen http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/program.cfm

There are other organizations that certify Therapy Dogs, e.g., http://www.tdi-dog.org/

You might browse through some of this info with your dogs in mind and ask yourself how they might do.

Turns out there are basically zero requirements for official certification (from a legal point of view) - the real question is "can the dog do the job?"

Assuming that you are talking about personal service dog - turn on lights, open and close cabinet doors, CALMLY accompany the owner into stores, restaurants, church, whereever.

EDIT - why assume? Ask the lady what exactly she needs the dog to do, how often, for how long, etc.

Certainly the Britt is biddable and bright enough to be trained for the tasks. The only question I might have is how the owner would address a young dog's excerise/activity requirements and whether asking a young Britt to remain by her side in a calm heel or down/stay for hours at a time is reasonable. What do you think about the dog's ability to do that?

I have met older, well-socialized Britts that I think could easily do all these jobs. I just wonder a little about that puppyhood to 2 or 3 years old range. One other discussion to have with her is whether she has checked with rescue organizations and considered an adult dog as compared to a pup??

Also does 90 minutes of outdoor activity mean "turned out in a yard by itself" for 90 minutes? What acitivities? Does this person realize that a healthy adult Brittany is built to run 3-5 miles easily?

As far as the individual dog characteristics, I would assume that a calm, stable, non-reactive dog would be best. You don't need the highest prey drive in the litter.

I'll be interested to hear what other folks have to say...

[Cajun Casey]

Sounds like someone who wants to haul her dog around everywhere with her. True service dogs are NOT trained by the service partner. I see them regularly in my work - seizure dogs, stroke dogs, stability dogs, ingrown toenail dogs. I also see Therapetics, GDFTB and Seeing Eye dogs, and the public demeanor of the two types, DIY and organizational, is dramatically different. There is a reason that established service dog groups don't pass out puppies. They don't work out. Service training is regimented and the puppy raisers put a LOT into the dogs.

[Redfishkilla]

I think I would cry if I saw a well bred hunting machine tied to a little old lady in a wheelchair. Get her a lab, brittanys need a chance to hunt......my lowly opinion.

[Neil]

Even though I think many, even most Britts would fill the role nicely, I don't think they would be as happy at it as any of the retrievers. There is just a lot of down time in the job, and there is a real reason that Labs and goldens excel at it.

Neil

[AzDoggin]

I think I would cry if I saw a well bred hunting machine tied to a little old lady in a wheelchair. Get her a lab, brittanys need a chance to hunt......my lowly opinion.

That thought occurs to me too, but then when you consider that lots of good dogs are hunted 2-3 months out of the year, then lay around in the kennel/yard the other 9 months...maybe a dog that gets to hang out with it's "human" all day every day, and has a legitimate job to do doesn't have such a bad life. Good dogs need jobs, period.

There is just a lot of down time in the job, and there is a real reason that Labs and goldens excel at it.

Valid point and another reason to get the buyer to spell out her exact needs/activities/requirements for the dog. I have known some so-called "disabled" folks who are alot more active than other so-called "able bodied" folks. If she's interested and has trained a dog in agility - how mobile and active is she?

A/C - be careful how you word things if you turn her request for a pup down. Some of these "service dog" folks can be pretty militant about their rights...if you decide to turn her down, I think if you just say "we only sell dogs to hunting families" or similar, you should be in good shape since that what your breeding program is all about.

Here's some more info on rights of service dog owners: http://www.ada.gov/svcanimb.htm
http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/node/59

I learned some of this the hard way. A tenant of ours had a Rottie that broke through the wooden fence in the back yard and killed a neighbors dog. As we were getting ready to evict the tenant, the lady pulled the "but it's a service dog" card, threatened to sue my butt, and threw a monkey wrench into the situation.

More on breeds of dogs from http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/faq

What breeds of dog can a service dog be?
This is a very complex question. Traditional breeds for service dogs have been German Shepherds (GSD), Labradors, and Golden Retrievers. But nowadays the use of unusual breeds has exploded. Mastiffs are used for mobility work. Chihuahuas are used for diabetic or seizure alert dogs. If the dog has the temperment, skills, and willingness to work; almost any breed could do certain jobs. A corgi wouldn't work out for pulling a wheelchair but but could work as a hearing dog. Breeds like pugs and bulldogs don't always make the best of service dogs due to the pushed in noses--this leads to difficult breathing while walking and a shorter working life. While toy breeds can do some service dog jobs, they are not often taken seriously by store employees and the public, especially if dressed up like someone's child.

Smaller breeds are being used by more disabled people on a fixed income as they eat less and can live happier in a smaller home. A cocker spaniel can alert to a sound just as well as a labrador.

[apachecadillac]

+1 to cajuncasey. Please note I'm not a breeder, so this is a layman's reaction.

I've got utterly no problem with people who are coping with deficits in various facets of their lives having companion dogs that enrich their lives (and for whom special privileges are wrangled). I suppose it's inevitable that those companions will be called service dogs, or therapy dogs. But a true, professionally-trained ( Guide Dogs for the Blind, for example) is trained by the organization, then the organization trains the owner/canine team.

Unless the purchaser intends to have the puppy professionally trained to meet her service requirements, and then undergo a similar training regime herself, I'd be loath to place a pup with her. Especially given the breed of her last companion animal. I'm looking forward to taking on a Brittany pup this summer, and I've got the 3-5 miles a day in the baseline case. Plus yard training, and, later in the summer scouting trips.

I have to question with the buyer is buying into a program that she understands.

[A/C Guy]

I appreciate all the feedback. She has a Pomeranian that is a seizure dog. The Pom is getting old and the lady is planning ahead for her replacement. She know it takes a couple years to train a fast learning dog and more years for an average dog. She lives in a small house and doesn't want a lab or other large dog. She decided that a Brittany may not be the best choice as she is not as active or energetic now as she was when she trained her Pom 10 years ago, so she is still looking and will pick from another small or medium breed that has already been "proven" to be a good choice for service work.