NAVHDA Vizsla

[Gridiron and Grouse]

I was doing a quick internet search and was unsuccessful for the most part so I figured I would check with all of you. Are there any kennels that produce Vizslas that in general perform well in the NAVHDA tests? If there aren't any (or many kennels) what about specific lines? Thanks in advance.

[phermes1]

IMHO, any Vizsla that can find and point a bird can do well in NAVHDA given the proper training. My boy Shooter got a prize II UT, and we got an NA breeder's award out of Buffy's litter with 3 Prize I's, 2 prize II's, and 2 prize III's.
NAVHDA really isn't my main focus, though; I do more AKC trials and hunt tests. The main vizsla guy that I'd look to for NAVHDA is Lee Dosier in Wisconsin. http://www.rockwoodkennels.net/enter.htm

[DeadwoodDogs]

Take some time to look through the Vizsla test scores on the NAVHDA web site. The yearly test reports are there for free and sorted by breed so you can quickly look at all the Vizsla test scores for the past several years (2003 - 2009).

http://www.navhda.org/tstrpt.html

[Gridiron and Grouse]

Thanks for the advice guys.

[bwjohn]

check out rockwood kennels in WI, I think he is more into NAVDHA.

brandon

[Buckeye_V]

I have to agree with Paul on this one. Any well bred Vizsla from proven lines will do well in that venue. I could recommend some closer to home if that is more appealing.

Good luck!

[DeadwoodDogs]

Really? Point a bird and you can do well in NAVHDA?

Duck search? Water desire? If you haven't done it yourself, I wouldn't jump out there and say its that easy.

Field trials and AKC hunt tests - run and point with a lame retrieve....does that sound like a fair assessment?

[phermes1]

Really? Point a bird and you can do well in NAVHDA?

Duck search? Water desire? If you haven't done it yourself, I wouldn't jump out there and say its that easy.

Field trials and AKC hunt tests - run and point with a lame retrieve....does that sound like a fair assessment?

I didn't say it was easy, don't get your panties in a wad.
Perhaps you missed the last part of my statement, which stated "GIVEN THE PROPER TRAINING."

Sheesh...

[Buckeye_V]

I said "well-bred vizsla". Any well-bred vizsla from poven lines would be fine for that venue. However, like Paul said - you have to train all of that.

My vizslas will hunt anything I kill. They are from proven lines. I can expound if you like.........

Justin

[Dave Quindt]

I said "well-bred vizsla". Any well-bred vizsla from poven lines would be fine for that venue. However, like Paul said - you have to train all of that.

I've had the opportunity to be around some of the very best Vizslas in the country, and some of the best breeders and trainers of those dogs. These are not just "proven lines" but proven champions bred from champions.

Very, very few would make what I'd call a "NAVHDA dog". Even the best lines in the nation suffer from softness and trainability issues. For a dog to be a good UT or VC candidate, he must be able to take training, handle reasonable amounts of pressure and have enough drive in him to handle a normal day's UT training. That's an extremely rare Viszla. I've seen far more Viszlas where it would have been easier to put an FC on the dog than a UT, much less a VC.

When you see that more Spinoni were tested at the UT level last year than Viszlas; that should tell you something.

I would agree with a previous comment; based at least on last year's test results I'd be talking to Lee Dosier, or anyone else responsible for breeding a litter with multiple UT-tested dogs.

JMO,
Dave

[phermes1]

I said "well-bred vizsla". Any well-bred vizsla from poven lines would be fine for that venue. However, like Paul said - you have to train all of that.

I've had the opportunity to be around some of the very best Vizslas in the country, and some of the best breeders and trainers of those dogs. These are not just "proven lines" but proven champions bred from champions.

Very, very few would make what I'd call a "NAVHDA dog". Even the best lines in the nation suffer from softness and trainability issues. For a dog to be a good UT or VC candidate, he must be able to take training, handle reasonable amounts of pressure and have enough drive in him to handle a normal day's UT training. That's an extremely rare Viszla. I've seen far more Viszlas where it would have been easier to put an FC on the dog than a UT, much less a VC.


JMO,
Dave

Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion and I respect it, but I have to disagree. More often than not, I think the reason more Vizslas don't test in NAVHDA is the dedication and experience level of its trainer rather than the dog's ability. I see plenty that I think could do the job.
In my case, and probably many others, I can run in field trials or hunt tests 7-8 months of the year. With NAVHDA, there is one test within 8 hours of my house each year. Pretty easy choice, really.

[GrayDawg]

IMHO, any Vizsla that can find and point a bird can do well in NAVHDA given the proper training.

Uhmmmm......... no.

At the Natural Ability level, a successful NAVHDA dog will have to:
- be able to track (hunt dead) game, (this doesn't mean go into "search" mode, it means being able
to have the discipline to remain on scent presented to them and specifically NOT go into search mode)
-demostrate an ability to willingly enter & swim in water.

At the Utility level, a successful NAVHDA dog will have to:
- retrieve a duck (through decoys) in water
- search for a hobbled duck in water (and possibly be re-sent if they find/retrieve it too quickly)
- track/retrieve downed game from an open field into a thicket & back to their handler.

So I *think* one will need a dog who will do a tad more than "find & point a bird".

Rob

[Buckeye_V]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree, then. I reassert my belief that a well bred vizsla (now what you think is a well bred and what I think is a well bred are probably different things). In my neck of the woods I see plenty of vizslas who will take the training, are biddable enough to understand what it is you are asking - if you know what to tell them - and complete the task. In my experience, vizslas are too smart for their own good, which often times gets translated into "soft."

So maybe it's not the dog all of the times and maybe, just maybe - :roll: the trainer????

I know for a fact that my pup's father was tested in that venue and did fine, but the owner decided that the venue wasn't his thing. Nothing wrong with that, but I would take just about anyone of his pups and go to that venue and be able to compete.

Again, to the original poster - good luck in your search and I hope you find what you are looking for.

[phermes1]

IMHO, any Vizsla that can find and point a bird can do well in NAVHDA given the proper training.

Uhmmmm......... no.

At the Natural Ability level, a successful NAVHDA dog will have to:
- be able to track (hunt dead) game, (this doesn't mean go into "search" mode, it means being able
to have the discipline to remain on scent presented to them and specifically NOT go into search mode)
-demostrate an ability to willingly enter & swim in water.

At the Utility level, a successful NAVHDA dog will have to:
- retrieve a duck (through decoys) in water
- search for a hobbled duck in water (and possibly be re-sent if they find/retrieve it too quickly)
- track/retrieve downed game from an open field into a thicket & back to their handler.

So I *think* one will need a dog who will do a tad more than "find & point a bird".

Rob

Thanks for quoting the rulebook, I haven't seen it before. Very helpful. :roll:

My main point - there are a lot of vizslas out there with the basic skills required for NAVHDA. I don't really know of any Vizsla line that is specifically known as a "NAVHDA" line. Lee's dogs are probably the most accomplished - but they do well at everything from what I can tell, so I wouldn't shoehorn them into a single category.
Bottom line - Lee is probably the best resource for anyone looking for a Vizsla and looking to get involved in NAVHDA.

[GrayDawg]

IMHO, any Vizsla that can find and point a bird can do well in NAVHDA given the proper training.

Uhmmmm......... no.

At the Natural Ability level, a successful NAVHDA dog will have to:
- be able to track (hunt dead) game, (this doesn't mean go into "search" mode, it means being able
to have the discipline to remain on scent presented to them and specifically NOT go into search mode)
-demostrate an ability to willingly enter & swim in water.

At the Utility level, a successful NAVHDA dog will have to:
- retrieve a duck (through decoys) in water
- search for a hobbled duck in water (and possibly be re-sent if they find/retrieve it too quickly)
- track/retrieve downed game from an open field into a thicket & back to their handler.

So I *think* one will need a dog who will do a tad more than "find & point a bird".

Rob

Thanks for quoting the rulebook, I haven't seen it before. Very helpful. :roll:

I wasn't quoting any rulebook, just recalling from memory my days as an apprentice judge- which was over 11 years ago.
I have been away from NAVHDA for a while and only recently returned. Your "main point" as I perceived it, was in the focus statement of the first sentence of your initial reply....... "IMHO, any Vizsla that can find and point a bird can do well in NAVHDA given the proper training."

The way I see it, you are now trying to use the last 4 words, "given the proper training", as an out clause/justification for the words which preceed them, "any Vizsla that can find and point a bird can do well in NAVHDA". IMHO, that isn't fair to Vizslas, or any of the dogs (up to this point) or trainers who have been successful in NAVHDA.

You have oversimplified what it takes for a dog to be successful in NAVHDA- pure & simple.

Rob

[phermes1]

You have oversimplified what it takes for a dog to be successful in NAVHDA- pure & simple.

Rob

On that point, you're probably right. I didn't mean to imply that any boot-licking dog that can stumble across a bird and stop can be successful in NAVHDA. That is certainly not true.

But no, I'm not using "given the proper training" as an out. NAVHDA involves a lot of obedience and a lot of training. As a former judge, I'm sure you realize that. The trainer's level of dedication and knowledge is a huge part of succeeding. I mean - dayum, if I had a little bit more of both, I'd probably be running in the Invitational this year. In my very honest, not meaning to be offensive but I probably will be anyway opinion, in most cases, failures can be pinned on the trainer rather than the dog's inherent inability to get the job done. Take that however you want.

[Gridiron and Grouse]

Maybe I should have been a little more specific. If you were looking to purchase a Vizsla that you would expect to be a very naturally Versatile dog is there any line or breeder you would look at. A line that might do well in the NAVHDA arena with very little training, a dog that would be extremely versatile especially as a natural retriever/swimmer. Thanks for all of the input so far.

[snips]

Not many dogs will make it thru higher levels of testing on a natural retrieve (if any)....

[Gridiron and Grouse]

I understand that. I'm not looking for a dog that will come finished. All i wanted to know was if anyone knew of any kennels that produced dogs that tended to do better retrieving and in the water than others. Basically I just wanted to know if anyone could suggest any Vizsla breeders who bred very versatile V's.

[GrayDawg]

G&G,
I was feeling guilty for participating in the "semi" hi-jack of this thread, so I decided to spend some time so as
to provide you some SOLID leads regarding versatile Vizslas.

The following list are names of OWNERS of Vizslas who tested in NAVHDA over the last 365 days. Some of these dogs
Prized, some did not. These owners represent Vizslas listed on the first 42 pages of an 84 page test report (roughly half
the total number of Vizslas tested in NAVHDA over the last year). I suggest you take these names, and one by one, plug them into Google along with the word "Vizsla" and see what you come up with in terms of contact information.

You want to speak with the owners of Vizslas, not the breeders........ a big difference. If you talk to a few owners who are all gushing
about the same breeder- you may have a winner. Here are the names:

Tate Martinsen, Aaron Davis, Angela Gibson, Irene Balla, Sylvia Dorosh, Nancy Anderson, Steven Ingram, Sheryle J. Tepp,
Mary E. Seigler, Timothy O. May, Daniel LeClair, Karla Nephew, Darrell Jech, Dean Orozs, Bryan Swenson, Alexandra Richard,
M. Jane Morgan & Mary L. Sanford.

So there you go- now it's time for you to do some research...........

Rob

[Gridiron and Grouse]

Thanks everybody for all of your help. I really appreciate it. A lot of good information!