GSP Producers??

sweetsong · Post by **sweetsong** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:40 pm

Joe wrote:

The success of a lot of producers is direckly tied to who gets his pups. Some people just don't get it and never will, but not all people play this game to win. I've seen a lot of outstanding pups from Saddle that would have been world beaters, but the owner simply unwilling or unable to get the dog to that level.

I have always thought this to be true. I know there are a lot of better more experienced handlers than me. I would like to believe that my Greta would do much better with a pro but I don't have the resources for that.

What have been some of the top producing matings in the history of the GSP breed? And have any of these mating been repeated and what were the results of the 2nd or 3rd litter?

Thanks
Terry

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:11 pm

Mostly repeat breedings are not as successful as you think they would be. FC/AFC Moosegard's Dee Dee Jackson was breed to FC Big Oak Bumper I think three times and the last litter might have been the best one. Lots of winners and NFC stuff came from it. Bumper and Roxie Roller are the 2 ladies that jump right into my memory. Bumper's great great grand daughters when line bred are still producding big time winner, my Pepper out of Morticia is jsut one great example, she is dome having puppies at 11 years of age but there are several daughters out there if they getg bred to the right males will produce beyond belief.

I have only been at this for 20 years, maybe someone else can remember more.

Pepper

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:07 pm

One top producing breedings was Aces Prima Banane to Beires Evolution. Out of 3 or 4 breedings there were 15+ FC's.

Fieldmaster · Post by **Fieldmaster** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:21 pm

Brenda,
I was told by Catherine Black that the nick between ( Beires Evolution x Ace's Prima Banane ) produced 21 FC's in 5 breedings. I may be wrong but that is what I was told.

There are lots of Top Producing dogs out there from Top winning Pros and their breeding programs. Just be very cautious and do your homework some are producing and continue to produce big time genetic problems some of which that can be fatal to your dog.

Robert

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:25 pm

That sounds right, I knew there were more than 15. Not to mention Rick had 1 that was a NSTRA Ch, and BA was a pt from finishing her FC too.

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:26 pm

Sanjo Slick was bred to Heidi Ho Pinehurst 2 times. First produced 4 multiple time Nat champs. Slick, Strike, Bree, and Running Bear. Plus all of the other pups were FC's too!! I think the 2nd time only produced 2 FC's. (Robbie would know for sure)

This line keeps producing National champs 3 and 4 generations later. Not to mention all of the FC's. (Don't know how many FC's) Seems to do very well when line bred, and then outcrossed every now and then.

Others may have better info on this line than I do. I have only been in this field trial game 8 or 9 years. I would love to hear from others that have more experience with this line than I do.

Doug

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:29 am

ACooper wrote:I heard a horse breeder say one time "Find a colt you like and then go breed to his sire". Seems people breed to the dog they like instead of breeding to a dog they likes father when that dog is still around.

JMO

The flaw with that saying is it makes the assumption that the mare, that produced the nice colt, brought nothing to the table.

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:29 pm

Repeat breedings, often doesn't produce the same because of when they where bread, a different season. Some dogs such as Saddle produced better when he was out crossed, Saddle/Slick, Saddle/Clown, Saddle/Billy and others. Why who knows, but one thing is for sure line breeding Saddle was not that good an idea. And again I don't know why, but repeat breedings often did not produce as well as the first. Saddle to Panko's Sam is an excellent example, I believe the first time not only produced the three bitches that Danny did all that winning with, but I am pretty sure had 3 other dogs that won Championships.

This is what I mean by you need to find the nitch that works, and what do I have, what do I need, who throws what, and what can I expect.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:54 pm

Joe, I have heard that linebred Saddle just did not seem to work, but his offspring when bred right were excellent producers and have been very succesful at linebreeding. So when you say linebreeding on Saddle did not work so well, I am guessing you mean the ole man himself and not his offspring?

Chip

Rock Hard Kennels · Post by **Rock Hard Kennels** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:33 pm

Joe, would you say Saddle dogs are slow to develop? Just wondering. I have a male out of a saddle bitch that is slow developing.His mother is a nice dog but came on late as well.

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:56 pm

Chip that is correct, that was tried that at least 3 times and althought they where nice dogs, not what was needed to be competitive.

Dennis had told me that Saddle bred to Saddle bred worked real well, in our neck of the woods I see more people with Saddle dogs out breeding rather than staying in the same line. It also seemed that if you went Saddle to Buck (Saddles litter maid it work pretty well also. Many of the dogs that I have seen got run from Saddle and style from Buck.

Another combination that I see today that I like alot is Saddle/Danny, which maybe as good if not better than Saddle/Slick. Keep in mind that the most winnest dog are that Saddle/Slick, Tarkas (the all time male Championship winner) is that and Selina (the all time Championship winner) goes back to that.

Rock that is very true it seems that the best ones didn't show themselves untill after they where broke. Why who knows, but I do thing it's because you where able to get a handle on all that power that Saddle through.

Rock Hard Kennels · Post by **Rock Hard Kennels** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:05 pm

He is 2 and 1/2 and next week I am taking him to AZ for a week long quail hunt. It will be interesting to see if he figures it out down there. Seems in chukar country he beats himself up before he settles down. He broke out with some issues but we got it done. He will need to be force broke as well. He's pretty immature. But I like him a lot. Ton of style,long legs and a bunch of power.

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:50 pm

The males are very slow to develop don't give up on him, let him grow up, he'll do just fine. They say that Saddle produced better females, but I think it's more that the males where so slow and they where not given the time to mature.

Rock Hard Kennels · Post by **Rock Hard Kennels** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:05 pm

A couple of yrs ago I got the opportunity to spend some time with john steger. He is one of my favorite people in the dog worldfor sure. We talked for 4 days about some dogs from the past and he said Saddle was the greatest animal he has ever seen, he also told me things about Saddle that I am not sure if he was being totally honest about or not, he enjoys getting me going. Through all the ribbing and good conversation John had nothing but good things to say about Saddle. I respect Johns opinion very much as well as yours.

Thanks Joe
Art

sweetsong · Post by **sweetsong** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:36 pm

Joe wrote:

nother combination that I see today that I like alot is Saddle/Danny, which maybe as good if not better than Saddle/Slick. Keep in mind that the most winnest dog are that Saddle/Slick, Tarkas (the all time male Championship winner) is that and Selina (the all time Championship winner) goes back to that.

Who is Danny?

Thanks
Terry

Rock Hard Kennels · Post by **Rock Hard Kennels** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:52 pm

GK's Ramblin Danny

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:41 pm

How many generations are folks willing to assign responsiblity or credit for "production"? For instance, a "Saddle" bred dog where Saddle only appears one time 3 generations ago in the pedigree. Is it reasonable/unreasonable to assign traits in those dogs to the prominent sire of generations ago? (I say unreasonable) Is there really enough info to make conclusions regarding production of a single dog beyond it's own direct progeny?

I'm not as familiar with Saddle dogs as others - seems to be much more popular back east (which is anywhere east of Pocatello!

) - do his characteristics/looks/traits seem to carry thru the generations to where you can look at a dog of today and say "that dog's got Saddle in it" like I feel you can still do with dogs with Rusty or BE in 'em? I don't know if there's anything significant regarding performance to that characteristic of passing on a recurrent phenotypical appearance thru the generations but my experience and observations says there is...???

Rock Hard Kennels · Post by **Rock Hard Kennels** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:29 pm

Joe PM sent.

Thanks for some insight.

Art

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:23 am

Doug I am not sure of what you are trying to say. Saddle dogs are still out there competing, I have two of them, Bodenstat has one, Szost has 3, Danny has 1 and who knows what else is out there.

I can see some dogs with Saddle traits that do go back 2, 3 generations, not all good I might add. I will say that I don't think that Saddle ever reproduced himself and he was in the wrong part of the country, but we, Kevin and Danny learned a lot from him. Also keep in mind that he produced 66 dogs with 610 AF wins, I believe that is tops, and not done yet. For Steger to be talking him up says a lot in its self.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 am

Doug I am not sure of what you are trying to say.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to single any one dog out, just used Saddle as an example since he was the one you guys were chattin' about with regards to rate of maturity. Instead I'll use, for instance, my Bugsy dog, some folks refer to him as a "Rexx" dog. Rexx appears on his pedigree one time only, two generations ago, but yet seems to garner the production accolades or criticisms that one might associate with Bugs...even though there are, what, 5 other dogs that were necessary to ultimately produce him. Another of my dogs, Scoots, has BE in his pedigree 3 times although up to 3,4, or 5 generations ago - is he a "BE dog"? Does his performance, or lack thereof, reflect back on the producing ability of BE?? I'm trying to somehow ask, for how long/many generations can we assign "production" or characteristics responsibility to a single dog. I'm thinking one can only make decent conclusions with their direct progeny. For instance, when you say Saddle dogs are still competing are you referring to direct sons/daughters or any dog with Saddle in the pedigree?? Just trying to understand the lingo as well as how many generations folks are willing to attribute production or characteristics like "rate of maturity" to a single dog? Clear as mud??

The second part of my question was just pure curiousity. I've noticed that a couple prominent sires physical traits/appearances seem to carry strongly through the generations and just wondered if you'd noticed that as well with dogs with Saddle in their pedigree since I'm not as familiar with 'em. I like to think there is something to that, a very dominant set of genes if you will, but maybe it doesn't mean a thing - don't know??

Rock Hard Kennels · Post by **Rock Hard Kennels** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:35 am

Joe since we where talking Sonny in the PM's there is a dog that I think produces better in his grand get, if that's possible. I think the first generation is good but I believe his second is better. My Sonny grandson broke out early had 10 points towards his FC by 1 1/2 and is and was a joy to work with. He has some issues I need to work through, he is now five and who knows if we can do much fixing now but he is very typical of what I have seen in second generation. The first generation is very high powered and driven almost to a fault.
I really like the Sonny stuff, it has worked very well for me.

Art

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:56 am

Doug if what you are trying to say is: the further back you go the less the effect of that dog, off coarse that is just commen scents. As the genis become more and more diluted those traits become less prominent unless you are specificly breeding for that trait, which would propably be line breeding. But that does not change the fact that certain dogs have had a significant effect on the breed and that effect is still prevalent today.

Yes those dogs are directly out of Saddle, artificial and Kevin still has about 45 straws.

Art I haven't seen that much stuff from Sonny to make an opinion, but from what you are telling me that sounds typical of what I have seen, and that is why I wanted to breed to him. I don't know of any other dog that put trainablity in a dog like he does. I breed to Nuke because, I don't think I've seen a dog be more consistent in what he throws, very specific on what he throws. You need to know what you have and what he throws to go to him. That is that Saddle/Danny mix.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:43 pm

Doug if what you are trying to say is: the further back you go the less the effect of that dog, off coarse that is just commen scents.

That's what I was trying to get someone else to say!! I was getting the impression from some of the discussion that if a prominent, well known sire, "X", appeared in a pedigree at all, all the descendants were then "X" bred dogs and any success/failure/characteristic of "X's" descendants were attributed to him. Beyond it's direct descendants, I have a hard time knowing how much emphasis to give any one dog in a pedigree. You mention giving a full 60% to the dam alone - that leaves 40% to spread out amongst the whole of the sires lines???

But that does not change the fact that certain dogs have had a significant effect on the breed and that effect is still prevalent today.

I've heard this before and wonder how we measure "significant effect" on the breed. As a whole, the GSP breed is huge and I just have to wonder if what we feel is significant isn't merely the perception of significance amongst our small area of interest in it...but with regard to the whole breed, what we feel is "significant effect" might not even represent a bump on the bell curve. Dunno? Too much for my feable mind.

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:07 pm

It sounds to me that you are stating the obvious, but if you need to put a number on it try www.dogstuff.info/of_peas_and_pups.html I have never used them, but I have seen some of thier reports and it is interesting, I don't how accurate it is but it does give you an idea.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:41 pm

Haha, man, I was trying not to state anything!!

Just trying to post a question or two to get an understanding of how much import folks apply to a given dog in a pedigree and for how long. Anything that seemed like a declaration or position statement is attributable to my poor writing skills!!

Read thru the Peas/Pups stuff before - well a couple paragraphs before I couldn't take it anymore!! Dr. McCue lived just up the road in Id. Falls - I still occasionally will have an "old timer" stop me when they see me with my shorttails and ask about him like I'd know anything!

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:15 pm

Joe, since were on the subject of Saddle, I have always heard that if you had a direct Saddle son or daughter that ran big and was not blackhearted, to hang on to em as they were far and few between, for the most part would you find that to be true?

Art me boy, as far as Sonny is concerned can you tell me what you like and dislike about the Sonny dogs you have seen? I know you have seen quite a few out that way. Oh yea and if anybody is out in Salt Lake City Art gives free guided tours of the temple out there..........

Chip

Razor · Post by **Razor** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:54 pm

I have 2 Sonny pups out in the backyard, and a grand daughter on the way. I have had others lines, but I keep going back to the Sonny stuff.

Rock Hard Kennels · Post by **Rock Hard Kennels** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:02 pm

Hey Chip, the Sonny stuff got real popular around here real early way back when Ziggy was still running him. Marty Middleton had a lot to do with that. He sang his praises pretty loudly after he went runner up down in Nephi, Utah to George Wilsons Roust I believe. Marty was scouting him if I remember right. (Doug will correct me if I am wrong) Ron Miller bred a litter here in Utah that produced a Bud a male that Marty owned he was a big running dog that ran for himself but looked like a million bucks and broke out early and stayed pretty honest through out but we had a hard time getting him around Marty sold him to Ziggy but even the great Zigmond had a rough go of it. There was another male named Koda that a guy named Ron Weeks owns he made the second series at the AKC nationals one year in Boise, they year Simon won it. He was a real nice dog he is my Mike dogs father he was a little line casting but found birds real well and stayed to the front and was honest as heck. During the Nationals he had a nice find on a covey of wild quail. He was a power house. There was another male named Dash that belonged to a friend of mine named Jason Woffinden he is a powerful rock throwing strong animal. He broke out well. He spent time with Mike Mcguiness running wild birds. Before he was broke out. He flagged a little early on which was probably results of being Jasons first dog but over came it later on and went on to take a runner up at the sharptail championship behind LB a couple of yrs ago with RJ handling, It was declared a classic, he is now owned by a guy named Matt Jones here in Utah. I owned 1 of the two bitches named Ashley I got her at two yrs old she was real small unlike the males who where fairly big and bulky. I owned her for a year and had a litter out of her and produced Dennis Jake dog who finished his FC AFC before 2 yrs old. The + is the break out early and seem to want to please and avoid getting themselves in trouble. The are all powerful have great style and speed. They retain training well. Good dispositions except for my female she fence fought some. The negatives are the are a little rank and will take advantage of you if they think they are alone ( not this county alone but next county alone) may throw some small dogs on occasion and have a little bark to em. I have enjoyed Mike more than any dog I have owned he taught me a lot. He has 14 points needs an al age major to finish him has a runner up championship in an NGSPA event and is a real nice hunting partner.
Early on it looked like he wasn't going to be the dig you up a find type of dog but as time goes by I look back and realize he has very seldom went birdless. Last few yrs he always digs up birds for the gun.
That's what I know. I have a double bred bitch in my kennel right now it is a sonny daughter/Sonny son breeding. Only time will tell.

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:32 pm

My Sonny bitch (Star) a littermate to Brandon's Buddy is on the small side as is her only female sibbling.The males went from average size to a little above average Buddy being the smallest male.Star is with Chris Goegan & normally runs a bid SD Race but ocasionally will get in the AA mode specially on more open grounds.Every time Chris has lost her & calls for the tracker he always finds her standing birds so she is honest.She is a natural retriever & Chris says there is nothing FF ed or not that can top her retrieving,she will literly knock you down delivering the bird,she just loves it,she gets that from her GR Dam.I whoa broke her in 3 days with a couple 15 to 20 min sessions each day & have a pic of her where I set her up,then whoaed her while I walked around snapping pics.If you see any let down anywhere in her in that pic I will Kiss your A$$.She was wild as a derby sometimes taking a couple horses & pickup to catch after her run but she is a BIRD DOG with style second to none.That whole litter of pups had 12:00 tails almost from birth,you almost never see them with their tails down no matter what they are doing or where their at.I can still remember them all nursing with their tails straight in the air.I got what I wanted from Sonny & hope I can hold onto it.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:39 am

He sang his praises pretty loudly after he went runner up down in Nephi, Utah to George Wilsons Roust I believe. Marty was scouting him if I remember right. (Doug will correct me if I am wrong)

I'll have to let ya' run with that one...that was the trial where Zack Miller's paint horse kicked me in the leg right at my boot top so I was having a hard time seeing things thru the tears. Probably how I ended up with a Roust pup instead of a Sonn....oh, wait a minute, Roust was the winner.

There was another male named Dash that belonged to a friend of mine named Jason Woffinden / went on to take a runner up at the sharptail championship behind LB a couple of yrs ago with RJ handling, It was declared a classic

How come you mention Marty scouting Sonny but you don't mention the scout for Dash? I know he risked life and limb a couple times racing across a badger hole infested prairie to get him back in the game! Sheesh, tough crowd!

Blue Dawn Kennel · Post by **Blue Dawn Kennel** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:04 am

I'm just going over threads I haven't been paying any attention to this morning. Someone asked about dogs winning that weren't bred much. Whether it was/is due to color, tail set, liking their own dogs in their area better or what I don't have any idea other than we've had a few males we've trained over the years go and hardly be bred at all unless it was by ourselves a maybe a few others. NC/NASDC/NSDC/Regional/Species Champion/FC Bluemax Spitfire V Grief "Fire" , NFC/FC/Regional/Species Champion Heide Ho's MRT "Mert", NGDC/FC Spitfire's Avian Radar "Radar",NC/NSDC/FC BMK's Strike The Gold "Strike", FC/Species Champion Sin City Slick Ace "Ace", NFC/FC/Regional Champion Slick's Shellshocked Frank "Frank",NC/FC/ Strike's Flash of Gold "Flash" (Flash wasn't bred that much while here @ our kennel but after going to Palermo in CA. he's been bred quite a bit), FC/Regional/Species Champion/National placer MRT's Bingo Buck "Buck" are just a few of the dogs that we've had/or have that have hardly been bred. Now Ace was bred probably more than most on this list and has produced National winners and caliber dogs.

I've heard/read people bring up Slick (Heidi's Mighty City Slicker) a lot of people wouldn't breed to Slick because of his looks. It didn't matter that Slick threw more solid or almost solid liver headed pups out of almost all the litters we seen out of him, it didn't matter that he was a running son of a gun that loved birds and love the field trial game by winning the NGPDA (All Breed) National Championship twice, the NGSPA National Championship twice and the AKC National Championship once (he's the winningest National Champion in the history of the GSP breed) I haven't and don't remember anyone passing him on that, plus he was the NGPDA National Shooting Dog Champion, NGSPA National Shooting Dog Champion, Regional/Specie Champion and FC. Slicks grand get and great grand get are still bringing on their grand & great grand pa's traits.

Slick's daddy NC/FC Sanjo Sin City Slicker "ole Slick" was bred to our clients NSDC/Futurity winner/FC Heidi Ho~Pinehurst 3 times. The first breeding produced NC/NFC/NSDC/NASDC/FC Heide's Mighty City Slicker, NC/FC BMK's Strike The Gold "Strike", 2xNFC/FC BMK's Wild Child "Bree", NSDC/FC BMK's Running Bear "Bear", the 2nd breeding produced a couple FC's and the 3rd didn't produce any champions but still great bird dogs.

Slick was bred to Steve Harrold's Sin City Slick Spot "Spot" 3 times I believe , first breeding produced 2xNGDC/FC BDK's Shake The Bank "Shake", FC Sin City Slick Ace "Ace", Champion JimKath's Sin City Siren, the 2nd breeding produced, NSDC/NASDC/NGDC/FC CCK's Sin City G Spot "Kate", Champion JimKath's Sin City Scandel "Scandel" (sorry I can't remember exact placements on Siren and Scandel) the 3rd I don't believe produced much.

Anyway that's just some of the history info that we've seen and had come into our kennel history just off hand. FWIW

Everyone have a MERRY CHRISTMAS gotta get out to do kennel chores and get ready to head down the road for 2 Christmas'.

Robbi

Wa Chukar Hunter · Post by **Wa Chukar Hunter** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:10 am

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I learned alot - but I am sure glad I don't mess with GSP's - reading this made my head hurt - How you guys keep track of all that stuff is amazing.

Keith

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:58 am

Hey Everybody~Merry Christmas. I knew that sooner or later, Robbi would get on here with some info about the
Blue Max/Blue Dawn dogs.

I thougt that Heidi was only bred to Slick twice, thanks for the clarification. It's amazing how many champions down through the generations came from that one breeding!! If you want a winner, Robbi breeds 'em, that's for sure.
(I think Linda Nickerson may have given her a couple of tips though!!)

I have one that is all line bred on this stuff in 3 generations, with an outcross to Rusty. His ped is in my signature.
He's out of Flash, I think he's the first FC that Flash produced. Just a couple of weeks b4 his brother Tubad.
He is one GOOD SOB, let me tell 'ya!! Completely natural in everything he does. Backs on sight just like he's on point.
(No matter what the distance!!)

Anyway, I might be prejudiced, but I think Robbi's post kind tells us what we should be line breeding/crossing/ breeding to, to get winners. Like she said, There are all kinds of reasons why people don't breed to certain dogs, but the win to dogs bred ratio, and titles don't lie!!

Doug

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:44 am

[quote="lvrgsp"]Joe, since were on the subject of Saddle, I have always heard that if you had a direct Saddle son or daughter that ran big and was not blackhearted, to hang on to em as they were far and few between, for the most part would you find that to be true?

A number of Saddle's pups did not show that much range as pups, but did come on later. I can't say that I've seen tomany blackhearted Saddle dogs, but a lot of those big running pups simply wound up in the wrong hands, Saddle's biggest negitive in my eyes was that he was a trash hunter and through that sum, and I thing people not being able to recognize it made the problem even bigger. I know one person that trained in grouse woods and than counldn't understand why he would loose the dog in the woods.

I haven't seen that many Sonny dogs, but what you guys describe is what I have seen also, easy to brake, fast, classy, very stylesh.

Why more people didn't breed to Slick who knows. All I know is that I almost did and the more I looked at him and the more I looked at my bitch that could'nt win a one dog, dog show the more I desided againest it. Keep in mind that one of the best preformances I have ever seen was from him and one of the best young dogs I have ever seen was out of him, I breed to that dog which was a good looking dog, but just remember Tarkas certainly one of the best dogs of our breed, but. I also think that a number of people had more choises on who to breed to at the time, unlike today, and I don't think you can say if I breed to Slick I know exactly what I am going to get, was he am All Age or a Shooting Dog by his record we still don't know.

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:20 pm

vzkennels wrote:My Sonny bitch (Star) a littermate to Brandon's Buddy is on the small side as is her only female sibbling.

VZ I didn't realize that Star is out of Sonny, I've seen her run a number of times, nice dog truely a bird finding machine! She went runner up to my Selina dog a few years back at Region 4, I remember her run she had 5 or 6 finds looked great every time. Selina pretty much owned Ionia and she had one of the best races shes ever had there, other wise you where a shoe in.

One other point about Slick and Robbi can probably add more to this, but as I remember that Strike dog which was Slicks litter mate was doing the winning first and he was a good looking a nice dog. I was braced with that dog at the All Breed, if I remember right he was not as honest as his brother, but a big Shooting Dog, kicked my but.

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:47 pm

Joe I think the Star you are talking about is by Nuke,My Star is by Sonny out of Wendy the same bitch my litter is out of now that I have advertised she just turned 4 in Oct & is just now coming into her own.She has went 2n in 2 of her last 4 trials a 4 point major & a 5 point major.Chris has always said she was a Nat caliber dog but we know these handlers (:lol:

) I really like Chris & don't think he we have put in this much time in a dog he didn't think had what it takes.

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:52 pm

Sorry VZ my mistake! Merry Christmas.

Fieldmaster · Post by **Fieldmaster** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:59 pm

Doug,
Can you give us more information on George Wilsons " Roust " dog and the FC/AFC Pistol Pete V Verrige dog. Have any pictures of them? Seen them on the ground?

Robert

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:29 pm

I'd like to see some pics of Pistol Pete also Doug if you don't have any do you think Dennis would?

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:38 am

Yes, Dennis would be able to give ya' some better info on those two dogs. Not sure how much either of 'em was bred but far as I know the production records aren't too exciting as far as competition stuff goes comparatively speaking - don't really know though.

Rock Hard Kennels · Post by **Rock Hard Kennels** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:05 am

Here is a link to a picture of Pete with his owner/trainer/handler, Mike Hansing http://www.birddogposse.org/Content.asp?id=1002 Mike lives here in Utah and is a good friend of mine. If you want to know about these two dogs Mike would be the one to talk to he seen every second of them. If you would like a number for Mike pm me and I will get you in touch with him.